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2014-09-16, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Yes, after a short hiatus I've decided once again to wade into the world of questions about the Planes. Having noted a tendency for questions to get beyond Planescape very quickly, I've accepted the inevitable and put it up in the title. here, here, here and most recently here.
If this is your first visit to my threads, be prepared for lots and lots of terminology, new ideas and more than a little narcissistic grandstanding as I attempt to clear the hurdles of twenty-odd years of fluff buildup. There are a lot of regulars, but we like new faces. A cursory attempt to search the past threads before asking your question would be appreciated, since 1) we've got the Search Thread function back and 2) I get a lot of repeat questions. If it happens again, it happens, but if it can be avoided then so much the better.
Once again, the fundamentals:
Basic Rules
• We'll be going with canonical information wherever possible, wherein this refers to all sources from 3.5 and prior. 4E and beyond are irrelevant to me where this thread is concerned.
• I'll conjecture on demand and supply tidbits from my own extensive work on the Planes where relevant, but these will always be pointed out.
• 99% of the time, I'm not interested in breaking down sources. That requires a lot of digging about more often than not, and it's a very big library that I'm drawing from. If you really feel the need to contest something, try to be nice about it; I don't like having to plunge into the boxes to find the right book or magazine unless I'm not sure of something. This is especially relevant since I've just moved a second time and had to repack all of the material; research now involves me jumping into the storage... corridor thing... to knock boxes around.
• I assume all or nearly all published settings to be connected in the same multiverse; this means both Spelljammer and Planescape, as well as worlds that try to remain separate such as Athas and Eberron, are all part of the same ball of wax as far as I'm concerned. Mystara is also considered included, and its cosmological uniqueness is interpreted through the lens of the Great Wheel.
• There are very few sources that don't bring something to the table, but sometimes what's written has been done with rather more expedient and financial goals in mind than staying true to canon or respecting the work of past authors. In particular, the Races series from 3.5 notoriously threw out the old racial pantheons and started over with a lot of similar deities. Where this sort of laziness has been evident, older sources are considered to prevail within the context of this thread.
• This thread has nothing to do with Pathfinder and I'm not particularly capable of (or interested in) answering questions involving Golarion. All questions will be addressed as D&D questions using the 3.5 edition rules to the extent possible.
Core Concepts
• The planes as will be most commonly acknowledged in this thread include: the Material Plane; the Ethereal, Astral and Shadow Planes; the Positive and Negative Energy Planes; the Elemental Planes of Air, Earth, Fire and Water; the Para-Elemental Planes of Ice, Magma, Ooze and Smoke; the Quasi-Elemental Planes of Ash, Dust, Lightning, Minerals, Radiance, Salt, Steam and Vacuum; the seventeen major Outer Planes; and the Far Realm. Other planes that may be mentioned with some degree of frequency but lie within the realm of speculation are the Ordial Plane, the Planes of Cordance, the Semi-Elemental Planes, the Near Realm, the Vast Medium and any of those not already named that are located in the 3.X Manual of the Planes, as well as demiplanes.
• The term exemplar or exemplar race may be used a great deal in this thread. These terms refer to the major entities of pure alignment that reside on the Outer Planes: archons, guardinals, eladrins, slaad, tanar'ri, yugoloths, baatezu, modrons and rilmani.
• I've been finding it convenient to concoct terminology for the major PC races and their most common foes. The term "proud races" refers to the most commonly encountered modern civilized races of the Prime Material Plane: humans, dwarves, elves, gnomes and halflings. The terms "vilekith" and "vile races" refer to the most commonly encountered modern barbarous races of the Prime Material Plane: gnolls, goblinoids, kobolds, orcs and ogres.
• When discussing worlds of the Material Plane, I often turn to referencing their spatial location on a star chart made for Spelljammer. As there is no official chart to consult, I work off of an extensively detailed and thoroughly researched fanmade chart by Nerik (warning: huge). This chart represents the Arcane Inner Flow quadrant of the primary "galaxy" of Spelljammer. This "galaxy" is known as arcane space after the beings that ruthlessly control its spelljamming helm supply and the secret of the lanes that connect the heart of the region to its border, known as the Arcane Outer Flow or AOF. If I note something as being on or near to the AOF, it represents a significant distance from the center of arcane space and from the most well-known worlds in this quadrant (Oerth, Krynn and Toril).
• Zargon is not an ancient baatorian. That is all.
Happy questioning!Last edited by afroakuma; 2014-09-18 at 12:45 PM.
Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
Manual of the Planes 5th Edition: for all the things the official 5E Planescape didn't cover. Check it out.
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2014-09-16, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
The "Chalice" of hieroneous, anything you can add to canonfire's page? Why Dispator? Does he have any long range plans for her (or his boss).
Apologies for spelling, phones and such.
Edit; Or should the whole thing just be thrown out the window?
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2014-09-16, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
No, it was a pretty one-off idea.
Why Dispator?
Does he have any long range plans for her (or his boss).Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
Manual of the Planes 5th Edition: for all the things the official 5E Planescape didn't cover. Check it out.
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2014-09-17, 11:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
On an Io kick!
Where does the first void fit into the cosmology, outside of it in a sense like the far plane? In some theoretical sense like the ordial? Are the old ones there or do they have some other place to cool their heels? What do we know about the first void?
Is there any legacy of Vorel other than Tiamat's a twit? Items, locations, anything really. Or is this a "she's dead Jim" and that's the end of it?
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2014-09-17, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
I had a couple of questions that I wanted to ask, but now I can't remember them.
So, ancient baatorians, the Nine Hells and other ancient creatures instead.
Zargon is described as one in Elder Evils, specifically that he was the "father" of the race, and that his kingdom in the Hells was a terrifying place "filled with running slime and rampant evil." Is that presumably an accurate depiction of what it was like back in the day for the ancient baatorians?
On their current appearance, I recently looked for depictions, and counting Zargon with his tentacley body as one, I also found that adventure with yugoloths who had a nupperibo on the verge of evolving and it was starting to produce tentacles out of its stomach. There's also the one where the sleeping ancient baatorian looks a bit like some sort of jellyfish-thing (the PCs enter a room and it sucks up all the light; there's a gray-shaded image of it on the page) that sucks up all their life force and can't be harmed by anything less than a wish or miracle "in that state." Are there any other pictures or descriptions you are aware of, or are those the only three?
What do you think they most likely look like, besides Baalphegor (whose form may just be the result of illusion or shapeshifting)?
Is it likely that some of them might be locked up in Carceri? Or frozen beneath Cania?
I was reading (on the Internet, so imagine my skepticism) that there are two stories to Bensozia's death. One is that Levistus killed her for refusing to side with him against Asmodeus, and one that Glasya killed her because she was sleeping around with Levistus and got caught in the act. Which of the two do you think is more likely to be true?
Extra question, was there ever anything more said about the "Sleeping Ones" living beneath the Paraelemental Plane of Ice? Such as their origin, identity, or the like? The size makes me think draeden, along the lines of Ulgurshek in the Abyss with a layer growing around him.
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2014-09-17, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
We're back?!? HOORAY!!! \o/ So... What can you tell us about Vorel (the sister of Bahamut and Tiamat)? Do you know of any relations between Sardior and Bahamut/Tiamt?
Last edited by Larkas; 2014-09-17 at 03:58 PM.
Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.
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2014-09-17, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
I still don't see why Levistus got it so easy. To clarify, I'm not asking why he wasn't destroyed; rather, I'm asking why Asmodeus doesn't subject him to tortures beyond that of an arcanaloth's greatest imagination.
...Well, approaching an arcanaloth's greatest imagination, anyway.Last edited by enderlord99; 2014-09-17 at 04:07 PM.
I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.
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2014-09-17, 05:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Nothing. As noted, it's not a component of the myths of other races, not so far as we know of at any rate. It's very likely simply an egotistical component of draconic mythology. Of course, "very likely" is altogether different from "definitely," so...
Is there any legacy of Vorel other than Tiamat's a twit? Items, locations, anything really. Or is this a "she's dead Jim" and that's the end of it?
No. Let me go amend the first post regarding that.
Are there any other pictures or descriptions you are aware of, or are those the only two.
What do you think they most likely look like
Is it likely that some of them might be locked up in Carceri?
Or frozen beneath Cania?
I was reading (on the Internet, so imagine my skepticism) that there are two stories to Bensozia's death. One is that Levistus killed her for refusing to side with him against Asmodeus, and one that Glasya killed her because she was sleeping around with Levistus and got caught in the act. Which of the two do you think is more likely to be true?
Extra question, was there ever anything more said about the "Sleeping Ones" living beneath the Paraelemental Plane of Ice? Such as their origin, identity, or the like? The size makes me think draeden, along the lines of Ulgurshek in the Abyss with a layer growing around him.
Nothing more than you already know. Vorel was added in as a Dragon God In The Refrigerator for backstory purposes, nothing more. Makes for some cool potential campaign ideas, though, if that's your jam.
Do you know of any relations between Sardior and Bahamut/Tiamt?
Who says he did?Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
Manual of the Planes 5th Edition: for all the things the official 5E Planescape didn't cover. Check it out.
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2014-09-17, 06:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
*cries tears of joy*
IT HATH RETURNED!
Are the Baatorians equivalent to the Obyriths (that is, born directly from the plane with no mortal souls involved) or like the Tanar'ri (that is, with mortal souls involved)?
Found an idea on the old Planeswalker site that seems interesting:
"I've always gotten a little bit of an Enuma Elish vibe out of the war between Chaos and Law - the Queen of Chaos and Miska the Wolf-Spider make a decent pair of (Babylonian) Tiamat/Kingu stand-ins, while the seven Wind Dukes correspond somewhat neatly to the seven winds that Marduk wielded. So I'm trying to play up the parallels there.
<snip>
So the eladrin having an outright hand in Obox-ob's downfall? Would fit in quite nicely to Chaos dividing itself much as the twin serpents of Law did. Specifically, it'd play to the Enuma Elish imagery again, putting Obox-ob in the place of Abzu, Kingu's murdered father and predecessor as Tiamat's consort. (And the eladrin or their predecessor(s) in the place of Ea, Marduk's father who had slain Abzu.)"
And here's a short Wiki snippet for context:
"Kingu, also spelled Qingu, meaning "unskilled laborer," was a god in Babylonian mythology, and — after the murder of his father Abzu — the consort of the goddess Tiamat, his mother, who wanted to establish him as ruler and leader of all gods before she was slain by Marduk. Tiamat gave Kingu the 3 Tablets of Destiny, which he wore as a breastplate and which gave him great power. She placed him as the general of her army. However, like Tiamat, Kingu was eventually slain by Marduk."
Babylonian Tiamat wa heavily associated with the primordial Chaos of creation (fits with her creating the first Tanar'ri no?). The name Tiamat also has been claimed to be cognate with Northwest Semitic tehom (תהום) (the deeps, abyss).
What do you think? Do you have your own ideas on expanding their fluff?
The goblinoid races are kind of...crappy. Would you give them any boosts like that one web article did for kobolds.
My understanding is that a Demon Lord is a demon that has become Unique but doesn't control a Layer of the abyss. A Demon Prince on the other hand is a Demon Lord that has gained control of an Abyssal Layer. The devil equivalents are the titles of Duke and the Archduke. Do the other planes have this distinction between Uniques? How does this work considering IRRC none of the other planes can be bonded to and controlled in that way (or does Mechanus have that relationship with Primus?)?
Can natives of Planes besides the Outer Planes (elemental planes/astral/etc) attain Unique status? If so, how? Is this what the Archomentals are?
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2014-09-17, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
They're definitely the latter, but it's pretty likely they're also the former.
What do you think? Do you have your own ideas on expanding their fluff?
The goblinoid races are kind of...crappy. Would you give them any boosts like that one web article did for kobolds.
My understanding is that a Demon Lord is a demon that has become Unique but doesn't control a Layer of the abyss. A Demon Prince on the other hand is a Demon Lord that has gained control of an Abyssal Layer. The devil equivalents are the titles of Duke and the Archduke.
Do the other planes have this distinction between Uniques?
Can natives of Planes besides the Outer Planes (elemental planes/astral/etc) attain Unique status?
If so, how?
Is this what the Archomentals are?Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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2014-09-17, 07:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
I hate gnomes.
No really, hate the little buggers, like, Afro death stare turned to max setting hate. But that's not a question so let's see: what evidence do we have as to Garl Glittergolds actual existence as opposed to actually being a carefully orcestrated gnome myth/illusion? Gnomes, what are they good for (good gods, ya'll!).
>%?#@}¿ gnomes.......
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2014-09-17, 07:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Basically that Real Life Babylonian mythology has a bunch of parallels to the dnd fluff about the Law/Chaos war and is thus fertile and interesting round for drawing inspiration on expanding the Law/Chaos war fluff. I'm asking whether you think the parallels (said in my above post) fit well or are just reaching badly. Also, whether you have better fluff in mind for the Law/Chaos war that goes in a different direction.
Hm, actually, does this count as being under the ban against talking about RL religion on this forum .
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2014-09-17, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Was "unique being" a fairly precisely defined term in 2e (or prior)? Was it purely a game term, or would it have been used in-setting?
(I've always been under the impression that when 3.5 Gate specifies "unique beings" it was referring to a setting concept from previous editions that didn't explicitly get carried over.)Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
Meet My Monstrous Guide to Monsters. Everything you absolutely need to know about Monsters and never thought you needed to ask.
Trophy!
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2014-09-17, 09:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Can't imagine why. Tinker gnomes are annoying, sure, but what's wrong with the others?
what evidence do we have as to Garl Glittergolds actual existence as opposed to actually being a carefully orcestrated gnome myth/illusion?
Yeah I think we'll just not nudge that particular line.
I suspect it came from the Frequency line in monster descriptions - Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare and Unique. Of course, that doesn't help us so much.Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
Manual of the Planes 5th Edition: for all the things the official 5E Planescape didn't cover. Check it out.
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2014-09-17, 10:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Horrifyingly right?
I remembered my original questions, too. Crystal spheres.
What's the largest size they can get up to? Solar system? Galaxy? Multiple galaxies? Pseudo-universal?
What's the smallest size? Sun + planet or two + distance to spherewall, or even smaller?
Is their size on the inside noticeable from the outside? Are some spheres "bigger on the inside"? Could they be measured by a spelljammer in the phlogiston?
If two crystal spheres were to bump into each other by some fluke (is it possible to engineer it?), what would happen on impact? Would they just bounce off each other and drift apart, would they implode, would a conjunction happen...?
On that Spelljammer flow chart, I spot "Thedas" (Dragon Age?) as well as Golarion (Pathfinder?). Are those fan-insertions, or are they actual worlds that just happen to have the same name?
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2014-09-18, 12:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
You can't tell me that's not a horrifying concept.
What's the largest size they can get up to?
Solar system?
Galaxy?
What's the smallest size?
Is their size on the inside noticeable from the outside?
Are some spheres "bigger on the inside"?
Could they be measured by a spelljammer in the phlogiston?
If two crystal spheres were to bump into each other by some fluke
(is it possible to engineer it?)
what would happen on impact? Would they just bounce off each other and drift apart
On that Spelljammer flow chart, I spot "Thedas" (Dragon Age?) as well as Golarion (Pathfinder?). Are those fan-insertions, or are they actual worlds that just happen to have the same name?Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
Manual of the Planes 5th Edition: for all the things the official 5E Planescape didn't cover. Check it out.
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2014-09-18, 12:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.
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2014-09-18, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
Manual of the Planes 5th Edition: for all the things the official 5E Planescape didn't cover. Check it out.
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2014-09-18, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
hooray for a new thread! i'vs read the previous ones (not finished yet though) and enjoyed them very much
Ssendam and Ygorl turned the slaad into colored frogs. Ignoring "true slaad" who are unaffected by this change (is it a thing?), is it likely to find another kind of slaadi? i mean, colored fish or colored birds as an uncreative example? i mean, can (not sure if its the right word in Limbo..) there be a new group of slaadi with common features who are not the MM slaadi?
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2014-09-18, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Mystara is also considered included, and its cosmological uniqueness is interpreted through the lens of the Great Wheel.
Is there any reason you're not going with the 3E-provided shortcut of "oh, and you can visit alternate cosmologies through the Plane of Shadows" and letting themore differentcosmologies (like 3E FR's world tree, Mystara, or Eberron) be, well, different? It's not an accusation or anything, I'm just wondering why you have the stance you have.
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2014-09-18, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
I can, but it'd be a lie.
The Refuge of Colour in the Plane of Radiance has as its rulers "King Black and Queen White" - the Inner Planes book describes them as unique in all the multiverse ("regal, birdlike humanoids"), and almost godlike in power. Is there anything more in particular that you know of them (any other places that detail them in any kind of specifics), or could speculate on? Are they similar in power to entities like demon lords, Lords of the Nine or Archomentals?
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2014-09-18, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Ehm... I can't speak for Fro, but that's the stance 2E's Planescape has. Planescape is really the only "serious" multiversal campaign setting to exist in any version of D&D, and as such is considered the primary source regarding anything planar by pretty much anyone who's "seriously" talking about the Planes.
Last edited by Larkas; 2014-09-18 at 12:21 PM.
Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.
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2014-09-18, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Glad to hear it! Always fun to see a new fan.
Ssendam and Ygorl turned the slaad into colored frogs. Ignoring "true slaad" who are unaffected by this change (is it a thing?)
is it likely to find another kind of slaadi? i mean, colored fish or colored birds as an uncreative example? i mean, can (not sure if its the right word in Limbo..) there be a new group of slaadi with common features who are not the MM slaadi?
I go mad. Rapidly. Repeatedly.
I mean, what with the Mystara stuff
Is there any reason you're not going with the 3E-provided shortcut of "oh, and you can visit alternate cosmologies through the Plane of Shadows"
and letting themore differentcosmologies (like 3E FR's world tree
That mention is all that has been written on them, but it's likely they're cognate to archomentals or else demigods of a sort.Last edited by afroakuma; 2014-09-18 at 12:42 PM.
Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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2014-09-18, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
So after a completely accidental exchange with Eldan earlier in the Law/Chaos thread I ended up poking around Warriors of Heaven and something I hadn't recall jumped out at me for all the wrong reasons. It mentioned that a fallen celestial could be transformed into a Nupperibo, which surprised me. I guess with enough wibbly wobbly evily weevily you can take a creature of pure good (if a fallen celestial could be called pure good at that point) and turn it into pure evil but seemed off, especially in that Nupperibo's are kinda kill on sight. I suspect this is mostly an edition issue but figured I'd bring it up since it's peaked my curiosity. What would a fallen celestial turned Nupperibo then allowed to fully develop result in
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2014-09-18, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Oh that's rarely a good idea
It mentioned that a fallen celestial could be transformed into a Nupperibo, which surprised me.
What would a fallen celestial turned Nupperibo then allowed to fully develop result inNeed a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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2014-09-18, 06:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.
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2014-09-18, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
On that note, what happens to fallen celestials or risen fiends in general? Do they mostly spend eternity in a conflicted state (i.e. made up of the stuff of one alignment, but clinging to the opposing alignment?), or do they gravitate towards the plane of their chosen alignment, and slowly change into a different kind of exemplar?
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2014-09-18, 07:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Indeedy. Always liked that conceit.
They're entities made of X who believe in Y. It's a tough existence. There's a transformation, yes, but it's not a transformation into a particular kind of being, but rather more like... out of a particular kind of being.Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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2014-09-18, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Oh I don't know, its got somethings down pat and others are.......interesting let's say. Honestly I'm probably going to reread it now so if you're not interested in questions on it just say the word.
Well I mean, theoretically if they're not doing it hands-on and it loses enough power... but honestly, I'd say it doesn't ever happen and that the writer just looked at a list and said "oh hey that works."
[A baatorian. A fallen celestial turned mane could eventually become a balor, after all.
BTW, still very curious about your head Canon as relates to what's in the ghoresh chasm under the seal.
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2014-09-18, 10:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!
Let's just say it's not a book I'm very friendly to. Because it's very very stupid.
Edit: wait, I get ancient baatorians were pretty powerful, but should I take from this they're on par with Balors?
BTW, still very curious about your head Canon as relates to what's in the ghoresh chasm under the seal.Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
Manual of the Planes 5th Edition: for all the things the official 5E Planescape didn't cover. Check it out.