afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread 5!

[Alleran]

Levistus would be all kinds of hilariously dead.

Is there a reason why he isn't all kinds of hilariously dead right now? I mean, he's imprisoned in a giant block of ice, but there's at least a remote chance he might get out someday. It seems like trying and failing isn't all that worse than trying and succeeding, because the success really, really got the Lord Below furious.

[afroakuma]

Very stupid Q7: is it usually regarded as a male?

Not able to answer.

[Brookshw]

Not able to answer.

Huh, okay then. You've got quite the puzzle here.

A creature of undetermined sex not from the lower planes, fiends want to get to it for some reason and guardinals keep it imprisoned or possibly protected.

Revised-Q7: Is it an outsider?

[*.*.*.*]

Planning a Shyft character, can you tell me of any Ethereal creatures that the character could be descended from? Also, any Ethereal settlements? Who are the 'Must knows' of the Ethereal?

[Lord_Gareth]

Is there a reason why he isn't all kinds of hilariously dead right now? I mean, he's imprisoned in a giant block of ice, but there's at least a remote chance he might get out someday. It seems like trying and failing isn't all that worse than trying and succeeding, because the success really, really got the Lord Below furious.

I believe the most popular theory is that, as much as Asmodeus wants to splatter Levistus against a wall, he's saving the Frozen Duke for his daughter to kill.

[Brookshw]

I believe the most popular theory is that, as much as Asmodeus wants to splatter Levistus against a wall, he's saving the Frozen Duke for his daughter to kill.

I like that theory personally, a very literal keeping him on ice / revenge is a dish best served cold, and a cruel waiting period while L sits there powerless to escape the inevitable.

[Tragak]

Is there a reason why he isn't all kinds of hilariously dead right now? I mean, he's imprisoned in a giant block of ice, but there's at least a remote chance he might get out someday. It seems like trying and failing isn't all that worse than trying and succeeding, because the success really, really got the Lord Below furious.

I like to think that Asmodeus is showing the System to be more important than the Individual: Asmodeus may be torturing Levistus personally, but the Lord of Stygia has not been relieved of his responsibility to serve the Lord of the Nine.

[enderlord99]

Q8: Does it have an alignment other than Animalistic True Neutral?

And, if yes:

Q9: Does its alignment match that of its plane of origin?

[ThisIsZen]

The other implication of Glasya's entry from Fiendish Codex as I recall is that while it's basically an open secret that Levistus killed Bensozia, and the evidence is damning enough to justify being sealed inside a continent-sized iceberg, there isn't actually any proof, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

This is even a condition Asmodeus has placed on Glasya - she will absolutely be permitted to kill Levistus, but only if she can find absolutely incontrovertible evidence of his crimes.

Seems to me like it's a case of the fluff actually really heavily supporting the idea of Baator being a plane of LAW as much as evil. Asmodeus certainly could paint Levistus all over Stygia, as I imagine could his daughter, but that wouldn't be an act in accordance with the Law of Hell, whatever those laws may be.

[afroakuma]

Revised-Q7: Is it an outsider?

Yes.

Planning a Shyft character, can you tell me of any Ethereal creatures that the character could be descended from? Also, any Ethereal settlements? Who are the 'Must knows' of the Ethereal?

Hm. That you could claim descent from is actually difficult, since they concocted the shyft before remembering that candidates for that were very poor indeed. I suppose that the terithran and the nathri are humanoid enough... xill are also native to the Ethereal Plane, but shyfts look nothing like them. Perhaps an Ethereal-linked tribe such as ghost elves?

Q8: Does it have an alignment other than Animalistic True Neutral?

Yes.

Q9: Does its alignment match that of its plane of origin?

No.

[*.*.*.*]

Hm. That you could claim descent from is actually difficult, since they concocted the shyft before remembering that candidates for that were very poor indeed. I suppose that the terithran and the nathri are humanoid enough... xill are also native to the Ethereal Plane, but shyfts look nothing like them. Perhaps an Ethereal-linked tribe such as ghost elves?

If I'm not entirely wrong, planetouched can also be products of a plane 'tainting' a bloodline, right? I read on Greywiki that Xill keep a demi-plane of human thralls as incubators. That could work

[Brookshw]

Hmmm,

Q10: does it originate from an upper plane?

If and only if the answer to 10 is yes, Q11: Is it considered fallen? Please disregard question 11 if the answer to 10 was no.

[Tovec]

Did I not just imply the answer?

You imply they are locked behind a seal, or however that works, but that doesn't explain how they got there in the first place. It doesn't imply or explain anything about them, except they are an evil version of angels. It doesn't really answer any questions I have about them. It answers only 'that' they are sealed. Not who, what, where, when, why, or even how.

Also, are there chaotic and lawful versions? Why or why not?

[enderlord99]

You imply they are locked behind a seal, or however that works, but that doesn't explain how they got there in the first place. It doesn't imply or explain anything about them, except they are an evil version of angels. It doesn't really answer any questions I have about them. It answers only 'that' they are sealed. Not who, what, where, when, why, or even how.

Probably here. I don't think it's "official," though.

[afroakuma]

If I'm not entirely wrong, planetouched can also be products of a plane 'tainting' a bloodline, right?

Correct.

Hmmm,

Q10: does it originate from an upper plane?

Yes.

Q11: Is it considered fallen?

Yes.

[Brookshw]

You imply they are locked behind a seal, or however that works, but that doesn't explain how they got there in the first place. It doesn't imply or explain anything about them, except they are an evil version of angels. It doesn't really answer any questions I have about them. It answers only 'that' they are sealed. Not who, what, where, when, why, or even how.

Also, are there chaotic and lawful versions? Why or why not?

Hmmm, I think he answered this back in thread three

My own take is that the Blood War has caused their shadowy counterparts to conceal themselves and wait for its conclusion, and that these beings -anathemas - await beyond the great seal at the bottom of the Ghoresh Chasm.

I gather from this they did it to themselves basically to wait for evil to get its act together so they can be ready for the war on the upper planes. Does leave room still to wonder where they come from but answers a few of your questions I think.

As to the chaos version, its not a great answer but with the capping of spawns in limbo by the slaad lords the possibility for chaos angels may have been temporarily suspended from the cosmos. Of course, angels being servants, it seems like the pure chaotic (slaad) don't want them, the demons have their own thing going and "good" already has its angels so all avenues seem closed off. Law angels already have modrons and inevitables, the latter of which seem to serve the function quite well and have a pretty high power threshhold since they'll be redpawned. The forge elders seem to prefer this so again, who would make them?
Just speculation on my part.

Q12: was it active at any point in hells hierarchy?

[afroakuma]

You imply they are locked behind a seal, or however that works, but that doesn't explain how they got there in the first place.

Indeed it does not. No such explanation is available. Nothing exists in canon to describe what is being talked about.

It doesn't imply or explain anything about them, except they are an evil version of angels.

See above.

It doesn't really answer any questions I have about them.

That is because, canonically, there is nothing to know. The question that was posed to me was "what do you think is under the seal?" I fail to see how my providing an opinion answer to an opinion question is somehow at issue.

Q12: was it active at any point in hells hierarchy?

No.

[Svata]

Q13: Was it ever active in the hierarchy of any of the planes (to whatever point they have one)?

(Ignore if answer to Q13 was no) Q14: Was it ever active in the hierarchy of any of the lower planes?

(Ignore if answer to Q13 was no) Q15: Was it ever active in the hierarchy of origin its plane of origin?


(Edited for better order/wording)

[afroakuma]

Q13: Was it ever active in the hierarchy of any of the planes (to whatever point they have one)?

Not able to answer.

[Brookshw]

I keep toying with it being miksa but that doesn't make much sense......
Has to be something with enough power the guardinals, and maybe all good forces, fearing its power enough not to just give it the boot when it fell. It's a creature and not a portal to some other prison.....unlikely to be divine......

Revised Q13: was its fall during or prior to the law/chaos war?

[afroakuma]

Revised Q13: was its fall during or prior to the law/chaos war?

Yes. Mathematician's answer!

[Brookshw]

For those playing along from home (and so I can consider the scope of questions and answers easily)

Spoiler: 20Questions game

Show

For those just joining, a friendly game of 20 questions for the community, the question is, what is the prisoner in Elysium according to Afro's headcanon (there's no actual canon). What is known from canon is the something is a "prisoner" and fiends keep trying to get in. Here's the tracking for questions. Questions that couldn't be answered allow(ed) a re-question, re-questions will be notated alphabetically, so if Q1 fails, Q1a is the first replacement, if Q1a fails, Q1b is the next replacement. Afro's responses in bold
Q1: Does it originate in 2e or later editions? Not sure how to answer.
Q1a: Is it's first D&D appearance in 2e or later editions? Not sure how to answer.
Q1b: Does it originate from D&D? Not sure how to answer.
Q1c: Is it from real world mythology? I'm going to try answering no. I think I can safely say no.
Q2: Does it originate from a specific campaign setting other than Planescape? No.
Q3: Does it originally hail from the lower planes? No.
Q4: Q4: Does it predate the Great Wheel? No.
Q5: Is it from an inner or transitive plane? Nope. Try again.
Q6: Is it a creature? Yes! Hooray, we're off to a better start!
Q7: is it usually regarded as a male? Not able to answer.
Q7a: Is it an outsider? Yes.
Q8: Does it have an alignment other than Animalistic True Neutral? Yes.
Q9: Does its alignment match that of its plane of origin? No.
Q10: does it originate from an upper plane? Yes.
Q11: Is it considered fallen? Yes.
Q12: was it active at any point in hells hierarchy? No.
Q13: Was it ever active in the hierarchy of any of the planes (to whatever point they have one)? Not able to answer.
Q13a: was its fall during or prior to the law/chaos war? Yes.

Edit: Interesting Afro, I definitely think at this point I'm going to need to crack some books for reference. No, must resist temptation. Canon knowledge challenge!

[afroakuma]

Edit: Interesting Afro, I definitely think at this point I'm going to need to crack some books for reference. No, must resist temptation. Canon knowledge challenge!

You're running out of questions quickly.

[Brookshw]

You're running out of questions quickly.

Very true. Once I hit 15 complete questions I'll pull out the books.

Crossing my fingers I don't need to break out On Hallowed Ground to track this down.....

[afroakuma]

Very true. Once I hit 15 complete questions I'll pull out the books.

Crossing my fingers I don't need to break out On Hallowed Ground to track this down.....

You could probably use questions to make your life easier...

/InterrogativeXayide

[enderlord99]

Q14: Is it mentioned anywhere in a canon book that does not directly call it the Prisoner of Elysium?

[afroakuma]

Q14: Is it mentioned anywhere in a canon book that does not directly call it the Prisoner of Elysium?

No. Good question indeed.

[Bad Wolf]

Not sure if this is the right place, but here it goes: Why is the written form of Abyssal based on Infernal, rather then the other way around? From what I remember, demons existed long before demons. Oh, and here's another: What was the very first plane to exist/form?

[afroakuma]

Not sure if this is the right place, but here it goes: Why is the written form of Abyssal based on Infernal, rather then the other way around?

Demons are chaotic; they would have had less use for the written word.

Oh, and here's another: What was the very first plane to exist/form?

Unknown. It might have been the Outlands, or the Astral Plane, or perhaps the Ethereal. You could argue the Far Realm, but it's not actually a plane.

[CRtwenty]

Is it true that Quadrones are the only type of Modron that can go rogue? If so why is this the case?

In regards to Mystara it's said that there are "Old Ones" (or "Great Ones" I can't remember the exact term) that are to the Immortals what the Immortals are to regular Mortals and exist beyond the boundary that marks the edge of the known multiverse of Mystara. Just as Mortals can ascend to Immortality through various trials, Immortals can ascend to Old One status by accomplishing trials of their own.

How do you fit these guys into a unified cosmology where Mystara is part of the main Prime Material Plane of the Great Wheel? Would the Old Ones be Powers? Something else? What about a regular Immortal that managed to get into the Great Wheel proper? You'd think they'd be Quasi Deities, if not Demi-Gods at least.