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2014-09-17, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
I'm going to be joining my first-ever Pathfinder game fairly soon, and want your help figuring out what class I should play to get myself acquainted with the differences between PF and 3.5. I've got a fairly good handle on the 3.5 rules and subsystems, but today is the very first time I've ever looked at anything Pathfinder. My plan is to make one character to learn the system, and once I've got a decent amount of rules knowledge down, possibly make a new character and bust out my optimization skills (if my first character is under-optimized, that is).
What class should my first character be? I don't know if I want to dive into a full caster right away, but other than that I'm open to pretty much any suggestion.
ETA: I'm particularly interested in the hybrid classes on the PFSRD, and the non-core Base Classes.Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2014-09-17 at 11:22 PM.
Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
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2014-09-17, 11:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
Re: New to pathfinder - maybe a Hunter?
Inquisitor. Its a rock solid T3 class, hybrid caster, and loads of fun.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...YyAQ2kns/edit#
Nobody expects the inquisition!Fighter/Mage/Thief avatar by Linklele
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2014-09-18, 12:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2014
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
Inquisitor... I like. That looks very nice. Thanks for directing me to the handbook, too!
A question, though: how do the favored class benefits work, specifically the human racial favored class benefit for the Inquisitor. Nineteen extra spells known seems kinda... really powerful. Is that really what I'd get if I took the racial benefit every time I leveled up?Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
Spoiler: Current Characters
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2014-09-18, 12:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Location
- Wellington, New Zealand
- Gender
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
Yes, human favored class bonuses are extremely powerful.
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2014-09-18, 01:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
*glances at other classes' human FC bonuses*
GYAH you seem to be right... wow. Especially for the spontaneous casters.
On another note, what teamwork feats do you think I should go for to best make use of Solo Tactics? Escape Route seems nice, as does Back to Back (which effectively negates the attack bonus enemies gain for flanking). Paired Opportunists might be great, as might Pack Attack, Outflank, and Lookout. Shake it Off might be good in some situations, and Target of Opportunity could be nice for a ranged build. What do you guys think?Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2014-09-18 at 01:09 AM.
Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
Spoiler: Current Characters
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2014-09-18, 01:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
You get favored class bonuses at 1st level, too. So you get to pick up a favored class bonus right away.
One thing to keep in mind, though, is that the "add one spell to your spellbook/spells known" favored class bonus limits you to spells that are one level lower than the highest spell level you can cast. At level 1, that means you can only pick 0-level spells (or nothing if you're an Alchemist), which is useless for Wizards and Arcanists and not that great for anything else (unless you REALLY want more highly-situational spells).
You're probably better off just taking +1 hp or +1 skill point instead until you get access to 2nd level spells, since those will likely be more useful than another cantrip or orison; personally, I don't bother with the "learn an extra spell" favored class bonuses until I can get 3rd level spells, since I usually have all the 1st level spells I want by the time I start getting 2nd level and I'm usually on 3rd level spells before I have all the 2nd level ones I want.
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2014-09-18, 02:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Ponyville
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Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
I'm kinda partial to the Dwarf or Half-Orc Favored Class bonuses myself.
Extra spells is nice and all, but Inquisitor is still only a 2/3 caster class.
Dwarves bonus is +1/2 level towards the Judgement bonus of your choice. Damage, Fast Healing, and Energy Resistance all scale at "+1 for every 3 levels", making them good choices for this ability.
Dwarves also have solid Inquisitor stats with +2 CON, +2 WIS, -2 CHA.
Half-Orcs get a bonus of +1/2 towards Intimidate Checks. Inquisitors already get Stern Gaze, which also grants +1/2 level towards Intimidate. The Conversion Inquisition lets you use WIS instead of CHA for Intimidate checks. etc...
Intimidate!
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2014-09-18, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
Seconding Half-Orc Inquisitor. Good Skills, Moderate Spell Casting, and Capable Combatant (melee or archery) are all highly desirable for a first time character to get your feet wet in as many ways as possible. Bard, Alchemist, Ranger, and Magus are all very good at this as well.
Escape Artist is great for just about any character and depending on your combat style and party setup you maybe want to consider the Broken Wing Gambit. Lookout is also really useful.
Also Feather domain is really hard to beat. 1/2 level to Perception, Ability to act in Surprise rounds, Initiative bonus to add to an already stellar roll (especially on an archer), and an animal companion is an absurd amount of power.
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2014-09-18, 09:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- Dominion of Canadia
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2014-09-18, 10:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
Oooh! I'll probably play a half-orc, then. Take the Intimidate bonus when there aren't any spells I need, and grab the human one every few levels or so.
How effective in-combat is the Intimidate skill? Are there feats that reduce the check time from a standard action, and/or things that let me affect multiple enemies with one check?Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2014-09-18 at 10:35 AM.
Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
Spoiler: Current Characters
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2014-09-18, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
- Location
- Ponyville
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Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
Forgot to mention that. Half-Orcs have it pretty good then.
Just doubled checked Half-Elf options and...they got hosed.
Human> Spell Known
Elf> Spell Known
Half-Elf> +1/4 to how many times you can change your most recent Teamwork feat every day
Yeah...Looks like we're going with "Spell Known" on this one.
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2014-09-18, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
Ooooh, that sounds really good. After a quick look at the other domains, this one pretty much outshines them all. Nice in-combat abilities (bonus to perception, surprise round stuff, Initiative bonus, flanking fun with AC) and nice out-of-combat abilities (bonus to perception, animal companion shenanigans). I'll be taking this one for sure. What animal companion should I go for, though? Allosaurus looks like a good charger/grappler, as would the big cat. Deinonychus could be an awesome charger (five attacks, wow), and the Roc could provide some great advantages once it hits Large size (focus on archery, fire from the back of the Roc, have it occasionally grab someone and drop them off a cliff). What do you all think?
Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
Spoiler: Current Characters
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2014-09-18, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- Dominion of Canadia
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2014-09-18, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
For intimidating you want Enforcer or Cornugon Smash. The former is much more potent, the latter is useful for foes that can't take nonlethal damage but can still be intimidated and is available much later and is tied to the power attack penalty (which is usually not too bad anyway.)
To do nonlethal damage look at Blade of Mercy, which you probably can't get in conjunction with feather domain but you want it if you can, or Bludgeoner if you can't. It's a small combat gimmick but free actions are stellar and probably better than Dazzling Display. Intimidate obviously works best with melee and sadly you probably don't have the feats to do melee and archery.
The cat will usually win for strait lethality, the roc wins for feather domain flavor and utility, and honorable mention goes to the Ankylosaurus for awesome points and a devastating stun ability. I'd go roc on an archer, cat for a melee flanking buddy, or ankylosaurus if you must have a dinosaur and an amazing tank. I know AC isn't an end all be all but giving this guy barding on top of his staggering +11 natural armor is just plain craziness. 31 AC at level 7 with no buffs at all is fantastic.
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2014-09-18, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
- Location
- Pennsylvania
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Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
I hesitate to mention it, since you'll likely have better things to do in combat (judgements, spell, hitting things), but since you asked...
Intimidating Prowess will let you add STR in addition to CHA for Intimidate checks.
Dazzling Display lets you take a full round action to demoralize all foes within 30 feet. It only works with weapons you've used Weapon Focus on. Weapon Focus is a prereq anyway, so pick your favorite weapon (I'd recommend Falchion since you're going with Half-orc).
Dazzling Display also opens the way for Intimidating Bane, which is tailor fit for Inquisitors, and Gory Finish, which will let you use Dazzling Display as a swift action, if you drop an opponent with the strike.
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2014-09-18, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
- Location
- New Hampshire
- Gender
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
We just had a bard join the party and I was helping her with her character and just now helping her level up. Bards are even more skill monkey in PF on top of having great music buffs and decent spell-casting. Their versatile performance ability is OBSCENE for being really good at nearly everything without spending many skill points. On top of that, they get half their level bonus automatically to knowledge skills, even their untrained ones. I'm actually a little jealous of our new bard. My character is a super genius and I feel like a moron by comparison.
If you cast Dispel Magic on my Gust of Wind, does that mean you're disgusting?
In real estate, they say it's all about location, location, location. In D&D I say it's about action economy, action economy, action economy.
Crystal Mage -- a homebrewed arcane tradition
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2014-09-18, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Finland
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
Medium casters are undoubtedly Paizo's forte. Bard, alchemist (sorta), inquisitor, magus, and summoner are all solid tier 3 classes (summoner might be a tad higher) from what I'm seeing, and hunter, investigator, skald, and warpriest look to be fitting in pretty neatly.
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2014-09-18, 11:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
Alright so, I've settled on a Half-Orc Inquisitor, Animal Domain (Roc companion), building for mounted archery (decided to drop Intimidate, because there's not much synergy there). For the feat progression, I'm thinking:
1st: Point-Blank Shot (feat tax; sigh)
3rd: Precise Shot (always good to be able to fire into melee)
5th: Deadly Aim (pump that damage up to be useful)
7th: Clustered Shots (buh-bye being rendered useless by DR)
9th: Mounted Combat (prep for the Roc becoming Large size next level)
11th: Rapid Shot (again, more damage)
13th: Manyshot (more damage? sure.)
15th: Improved Precise Shot
17th: Indomitable Mount (better safe than sorry)
19th: Mounted Archery (situational +2 is nice, and I may need the Roc to be going fast at these levels, to stay out of enemies' range)
Anything I'm missing? Should I change the order up a bit?
For ability scores, I'm thinking:
10 PB (ouch): Str 12, Dex 16 (14+2 racial), Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 7. At least two ability increases go to Wisdom.
15 PB (okay): Str 12, Dex 16 (14+2 racial), Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 7. Now all the ability increases can go into Dexterity.
20 PB (that's more like it): Str 14, Dex 17 (15+2 racial), Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 7. All ability increases into Dex, again.
25 PB (here we go): Str 14, Dex 17 (15+2 racial), Con 12, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 7.
Does that look good?
ETA: Teamwork feat progression. The "adjacent ally"-dependent ones are nice, because my animal companion is an ally, we're adjacent when I'm mounted, and they don't need the feat for me to benefit. How about this:
3rd: Lookout
6th: Enfilading Fire
9th: Shake it Off
12th: Allied Spellcaster
15th: Target of Opportunity
18th: Coordinated DefenseLast edited by Extra Anchovies; 2014-09-18 at 11:30 PM.
Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
Spoiler: Current Characters
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2014-09-18, 11:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Finland
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
Mounted Combat + Mounted Archery is basically burning two feats for a situational +2 bonus to attack (if your mount double moves: roc has 80 ft. move speed, just how far do you need to go in one turn?). Is that really worth delaying Rapid Shot 'till level 13 (you need to take Rapid Shot before Manyshot)?
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2014-09-18, 11:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
Good point. Moved Rapid Shot to where Mounted Archery was, shifted everything after RS earlier one spot, and moved MA to the end. At high levels, moving 160 feet in one round may actually be beneficial, to get out of spell/attack range or to keep up with flying enemies.
Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
Spoiler: Current Characters
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2014-09-19, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- Dominion of Canadia
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
Have you looked up archetypes? The Iconoclast is funny against most BBEGs. The look on the DM's face when you start shutting down all of his evil Lich's magical bling is always priceless.
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2014-09-19, 08:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Location
- Wellington, New Zealand
- Gender
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
Rapid shot comes before deadly aim, so long as you have any flat damage at all, which you should have from a composite bow, 2d8+4 is better than 1d8+4.
Inquisitor is 3/4 BAB, so I'm pretty sure you don't qualify for Clustered Shots at 7
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2014-09-19, 08:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
I've got an inquisitor in the game I'm running. He's a good player and he does some really good damage when he hits (dude rolls 1-5 on the vast majority of his rolls, his dice fricking hate him).
The bane ability that inquisitors get has to be one of the best class features for a melee character. Plus the teamwork feat thing is really nice as well. It's a solid class.
Personally I like Oracles and Alchemists from the APG classes. Oracles in particular are fun.
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2014-09-19, 10:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: New to pathfinder - what should I start with?
Hm. That does look nice, but I'm not sure if it's worth giving up the abilities that are replaced. I'll consider it, though.
Thanks for catching that, I'm good at missing prerequisites like that. Revised progression:
1st: Point-Blank Shot
3rd: Precise Shot
5th: Rapid Shot
7th: Mounted Combat
9th: Manyshot
11th: Clustered Shots
13th: Deadly Aim
15th: Improved Precise Shot
17th: Indomitable Mount
19th: Mounted ArcheryPlease use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
Spoiler: Current Characters