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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    When I first got my copy of the PHB3, I was disappointed to see that the classes of Ardent, Battlemind and Psion lacked any Encounter powers and only have their Dailies, Utilities and 3 At-Will powers to work with. It seems like playing a Human is the only way to partially offset the lower number of powers. Also, the limited pool of

    My questions are, does anybody actually use these classes? How do they compare to the other classes? I'm curious about other people's opinions on the effectiveness of these classes.

    On a side note, Is the Monk class any good? I've tried to build a few Monks, but they always feel like they would fall short compared to the other classes in overall effectiveness in combat. Also, using a weapon as in implement seems very confusing, as well as the sad fact that apparently, reach weapons can't be sued by them to attack at a short distance with. :(
    Last edited by wolfstone; 2014-09-19 at 05:58 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Their sheer mix of flexibility and specialization is what makes them so unique and useful.

    First, we have the infamous Battlemind. Why? Because it's the a Defender who can cover other roles depending on which powers he chooses. Disable like a Controller? Check. Hit like a Striker? Check. And that's with a power or two and minimal optimization (or you can really minmax). They also make excellent Hybrids.

    Second, we have the Ardent. Versatile isn't good for defining this leader. Debuff, Buff, Heal, Enable. All that with ease.

    Third, we have the Psion. Specialize or always have an ace up your sleeve, doesn't matter, because the Psion can screw a bunch of enemies, and even help allies.

    Monk acts like a melee Sorcerer|Rogue hybrid. Good AoE damage, coupled with good mobility.
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfstone View Post
    When I first got my copy of the PHB3, I was disappointed to see that the classes of Ardent, Battlemind and Psion lacked any Encounter powers and only have their Dailies, Utilities and 3 At-Will powers to work with. It seems like playing a Human is the only way to partially offset the lower number of powers. Also, the limited pool of

    My questions are, does anybody actually use these classes? How do they compare to the other classes? I'm curious about other people's opinions on the effectiveness of these classes.

    On a side note, Is the Monk class any good? I've tried to build a few Monks, but they always feel like they would fall short compared to the other classes in overall effectiveness in combat. Also, using a weapon as in implement seems very confusing, as well as the sad fact that apparently, reach weapons can't be sued by them to attack at a short distance with. :(
    I have some experience DMing for these guys. Well, not the ardent.

    Battlemind: Defender. Unfortunately it does not use Strength as its main attack stat, giving it very weak melee basic attacks. This means it has very weak opportunity attacks, a great weakness in a defender. The battlemind PC was a thri-kreen who took the Blurred Step power. If you shift away from a battlemind with that power, the PC will simply shift to follow. However, the melee basic attack is pretty weak, so you might as well just soak it. (Note that swordmages suffer this weakness... but the must-have Intelligent Blademaster feat takes care of this. That really should have been a class feature.)

    This isn't to say the battlemind was weak on offense. They have quite a few powers that don't target AC and offer nice riders.

    Like every defender that isn't a fighter, battleminds aren't very sticky. There's no Combat Superiority or equivalent. You can literally just walk past a battlemind, take a weak hit and maybe suffer from a mark. The punishment (which is very strong) only applies if you're near both the battlemind and your victim, so it doesn't come up much. Given the amount of damage monsters do (MM3 and onward), I pretty much never violated that battlemind's mark because ... it was frightening.

    Like almost every defender other than the fighter or knight, battleminds are weak at being a defender out of the box. This means their class features aren't enough. However, their powers are very good. It's possible to pick the "wrong" powers and be weak, though. Be sure to take Lightning Rush at 7th-level. For the cost of 2 power points, it doesn't cost you your next standard action. I once used monsters with the identical power, and the players freaked out and immediately started throwing every daze power they had at these guys so they could focus fire the boss instead. (The boss was a brute, so they had every reason to not want to let the brute wipe the floor with them!)

    I've built a couple of ardent NPCs. They seem okay. All of them are based on Dark Sun, where nobles are both war leaders (warlords) and psions. Why not both? I never got to use any of them (the PCs avoided cities like the plague, and never tangled with the tohr-kreen, who also have lots of ardents).

    And now the psion:

    They're almost as good at being controllers as wizards. I found their flavor disappointing though. Plenty of perfectly good powers from older editions were not converted, and I didn't like how they used Int rather than Wis. (I'd rather have gone with Wis primary, Int secondary, and leather armor proficiency.)

    The power that you will learn to hate, if you're a DM and have a psion player, is Dishearten. I know I hate that one! 4e is a bit grindy, and Dishearten was apparently designed by people who didn't know that. Dishearten is a 1st or 3rd-level AoE psychic power that inflicts -2 to hit whenever it hits. Because it does psychic damage, Psychic Lock applies. Take the feat, inflict up to -4 to hit. It gets worse. The 2 power point version inflicts a penalty to hit based on your Charisma, and of course that stacks with Psychic Lock. And it gets even worse. While you might have the equivalent of numerous encounter powers (spending 2 power points is the equivalent of using an encounter power), the flexibility means you can just keep on using the same "encounter" power over and over again in the same encounter. So the PC psion could use the augmented Dishearten three times per encounter, inflicting -4 to hit (-6 against the first attack due to Psychic Lock) to multiple opponents. That's also crippling if you use it on a solo, since all of its attacks will be at -4 to hit, and that bypasses most solo condition relief abilities. I ended up nerfing that power, and the player started using charm powers instead, which suits a telepath anyway.

    Another crazy power was Living Missile. Being able to repeatedly slide someone 10 squares struck me as being overpowered. But this wasn't as bad as Dishearten, since it's not sapping fun from the game.

    Psions are great if you just want to keep spamming the same encounter-equivalent power over and over again. It's a bit like playing an archer ranger. Technically the ranger has more power selection, but they're mainly variants on shooting something twice.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    The way the numbers in their pool of power points works out, it's very easy to compare augmented psionic at-wills to encounter powers - if you constantly upgrade your at-wills as you level up, you will have roughly the right number of power points to use the more expensive augmentations three times per encounter from level 7 forward.

    The main issue with psionic classes is that, due in large part to shoddy writing, a lot of the low leveled powers are better than a lot of the epic-tier at-wills, which, particularly coupled with eventually having enough power points to support spamming a heroic tier at the maximum augment tier no matter how long gone combats are, can make them feel very monotonous in practice.

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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfstone View Post
    My questions are, does anybody actually use these classes?
    In my experience: rarely. I've met a lot of players who either don't like the power point system, or dislike the concept of psionics, or dislike the fluff (the BM in particular has some truly ludicrous fluff with many of its powers), or find them not effective enough, or find them too monotonous due to their short power list and the 'spamming' problem Sol mentioned. All of those are opinion, not fact, but they add up to the fact that almost no players (that I've met) would want to play a psionic class.

    How do they compare to the other classes? I'm curious about other people's opinions on the effectiveness of these classes.
    All of them straight middle tier: clearly worse than a fighter or warlord, clearly better than a cavalier or vampire. An issue is that they have only a short power list to pick from (yes, there's PsP, but these classes don't get a lot of support in splatbooks or Dragon mag). Finally, the BM has some issues defending properly until Lightning Rush comes online at level 7.

    On a side note, Is the Monk class any good?
    None of what I've just said applies to monks. While technically a psionic class, they don't "feel" like one (that is, they represent a clear fictional archetype that people like, and don't do power points). Monks are still a middle-tier striker (worse than a sorcerer, better than a bladesinger) but they are pretty popular. Indeed they are the only PHB3 class that sees regular play in my area.

    HTH!
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Most people don't play monks as psionic, because that doesn't make much sense.

    Monks are awesome in 4e. Along with d20 Modern's martial artist, these are the best ... martial artists ... I've seen in D&D. Maybe Pathfinder's Brawler counts as well (only played 4 levels worth).

    Monks can follow the Strength non-magical tree of powers or the Wisdom-based mystic powers, which is great. Like mystic? Go Wis. Don't like mystic? Go Strength. Monks are mobile, getting powers that let them shift multiple squares, move extra squares, or jump really well... at-will. Their powers tend to be close blast and burst rather than single target. Unfortunately they're not so good at charging.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    And there's other three disciplines!

    There's Centered Breath (Wisdom), Stone Fist (Strength), Eternal Tide (Strength), Iron Soul (Constitution) and Desert Wind (Charisma), all with a different focus. Movement, stickiness by effect, stickiness by pulling them, fire damage, or just sheer damage. The fact that they can use all weapons they are proficient with is what allows them to be so easily costumized as what kind of Monk you want. Dodging stuff and jumping around while slashing everyone with a sword? You've got it. Teleportating and hitting them in the face with a staff? You've got it. Using a staff to propel yourself upwards in a jump before delivering a two-feet kick to the chest? Got it. They're incredibly fun and cinematic to play as.
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimera757 View Post
    Most people don't play monks as psionic, because that doesn't make much sense.

    Monks are awesome in 4e. Along with d20 Modern's martial artist, these are the best ... martial artists ... I've seen in D&D. Maybe Pathfinder's Brawler counts as well (only played 4 levels worth).

    Monks can follow the Strength non-magical tree of powers or the Wisdom-based mystic powers, which is great. Like mystic? Go Wis. Don't like mystic? Go Strength. Monks are mobile, getting powers that let them shift multiple squares, move extra squares, or jump really well... at-will. Their powers tend to be close blast and burst rather than single target. Unfortunately they're not so good at charging.
    Which is funny because as early as 1e Dragon magazine they actually were associated with Psionics (they made a rewrite of the monk class there and psionic abilities were part of it).

    I would have loved having an at will basic attack monk power that was not a discipline power. That would make them about perfect for me.

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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeeposFire View Post
    Which is funny because as early as 1e Dragon magazine they actually were associated with Psionics
    Rather, there was an attempt to associate them with psionics, which didn't catch on (and in 4E, it still doesn't).
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    I've found, through experimenting on building a monk on DDI character creator, that they have one of the lowest overall accuracy rates of any class (+38 Atk bonus max, and only with Infernal Prine Theme, ellfire Accurate Staff and Fighter Multi-class for the Kensei theme with Quarterstaffs, and the Destined Scion EP. Also, most Monk Dailies seem focused on one-time damage with few long-term bonus effects.

    They seem okay, but the limitations I just mentioned seem to make them rather limited as a class.

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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Are you balancing that with attacking NADs, and the effect that multi-target powers have at increasing accuracy?
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    Are you balancing that with attacking NADs, and the effect that multi-target powers have at increasing accuracy?
    Only one of the powers I chose target Fortitude, the rest all target Reflex.

    Final powers list (not counting the Kensei PP powers):

    AW: Fallen Needle, Five Storms, & Steel Wind (via Human race)

    E: Whirlwind Kick, Legion of One, & Fist of Indomitable Iron

    D: Dancer on the Sea of Battle (Fort), Watchful Hydra Stance, & Rising Phoenix

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    First, Reflex ends up in an average of 42. You hit on a 4. And if you can get CA very often, you can never miss unless you crit fail.

    Second, a good deal of Monk powers are burst/blasts. Statistically speaking, you have a very low chance to hit everyone, but a very high chance to hit someone. Combine that with the fact that the Monk's DPR feature (Flurry of Blows) can be used on several opponents at once, and it's highly likely that you'll be damaging everyone around you.
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfstone View Post
    I've found, through experimenting on building a monk on DDI character creator, that they have one of the lowest overall accuracy rates of any class (+38 Atk bonus max, and only with Infernal Prine Theme, ellfire Accurate Staff and Fighter Multi-class for the Kensei theme with Quarterstaffs, and the Destined Scion EP. Also, most Monk Dailies seem focused on one-time damage with few long-term bonus effects.

    They seem okay, but the limitations I just mentioned seem to make them rather limited as a class.
    That doesn't make sense to me. Any class that attacks NADs should have the same accuracy, assuming the same starting stats. So what is the monk missing that another NAD-attacking class can get? (Also, not talking extreme optimization here. Anything the monk or other PC takes should make sense.)

    Monk dailies avoid long-term effects because the monk is a striker. Rangers and rogues tend to just dish out high damage with their dailies. Why would the monk be different?

    I just came back from a 4e game, and our monk set up a really nasty combo with my wizard. He has an ability that lets him move or shift alongside numerous opponents, sliding them. We were facing (with six PCs) four ogres, even more orcs, and a couple of gargoyles. (We took a short rest, which allowed our opponents to awaken the gargoyles. It might not have been worth it.) He clumped the enemies up really good, dished out over 20 damage per hit, and didn't mind the incoming poison damage. Because there was going to be a lot of that. Then my wizard used him as ground zero for Phantom Chasm (area burst 1, friendly fire, immobilize and prone, creates a zone that causes an enemy that enters it to fall prone) and Stinking Cloud (area burst 3, persistent zone, 10 damage per turn). The cloud inflicts total concealment, but Wis monk attacks are close burst/blast (for the most part) so it didn't impact him much.

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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    ...Yeah, hitting on a 4 before CA shouldn't be considered low...

    I mean for an implement attack I work out a base line to hit of +33 at level 30 with 15 half level, 6 enhancement, 3 feat, 9 ability score (or 8 from an ability score and an accurate implement), which is hitting on a 9. Obviously that's not terribly optimised but I wouldn't complain about being 5 above that mark.
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud View Post
    ...Yeah, hitting on a 4 before CA shouldn't be considered low...

    I mean for an implement attack I work out a base line to hit of +33 at level 30 with 15 half level, 6 enhancement, 3 feat, 9 ability score (or 8 from an ability score and an accurate implement), which is hitting on a 9. Obviously that's not terribly optimised but I wouldn't complain about being 5 above that mark.
    That's the kind of thing I don't know. As I've stated elsewhere on these forums, my luck with dice is very low, so I always go for max accuracy to offset that. I don't really know what a good baseline attack bonus would be vs. each stat, so I error on the side of caution.

    The Tiefling wizard I run who specializes in mixing fire and control spells is a Lv. 8 with +12 atk bonus (+14 with fire spells, thanks to Hellfire Blood and Infernal Prince) and I wanted to see what he'd look like at max level, so I made a copy and bumped it up to Lv. 30, where I ended up with a max atk bonus of +38/+40 and a possible +41 +1d4 damage with enhancements and a Swordmage PP to give non-fire spells fire damage.

    Again, I'm not sure how often I could miss on my attack rolls with stats like that, but better safe than sorry, esp. with my dailies.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Additional comments, beyond what others have provided:

    Battleminds need some way of getting a solid MBA (beyond melee training). That means Tiefling MC Paladin and Wrath of the Crimson Legion, or Half Elf Dilettante Eldritch Strike (really only gets going in Paragon). The other alternative, as GPuzzle noted, is a hybrid- Paladin|Battlemind hybrids are at the very top of the power curve for hybrids- Paladin fixes their MBA problem, they get to double dip on punishment (Divine Challenge/Divine Sanction deals damage on its own, AND you get Lightning Rush at 7 with Augment 2 to have an interrupt in addition).

    Ardents can be decent, but as a single class leader, will never match Bards or Warlords- they just don't have the options or support. Hybriding, again, can be very good- Hybrid Bard|Ardent is a great leader and is one of the Switch builds on the Wizards Charop forums (Chordswitch, specifically).

    Psions just aren't that great. Hybriding might make them better, but still never quite good.

    The biggest problem with monks is that they don't do enough single target damage. There are a few tricks to deal with that- Firewind Blade, the Sarifal Feywarden them, and/or Weretheme with Claw Gloves (starting at level 10) can help a lot. Desert Wind has the best shot of doing major damage, though I think there's an Iron Soul build out there that does well.

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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    There is a way to make an Iron Soul Monk beat a Desert Wind in terms of single target DPR, it needs party cooperation and a way to reduce as much damage as he can as possible to set up a catch-22: basically, force 8 enemies into a circle around you, hit them with Flurry of Blows. You need to take Soaring Blade as your PP, and wield a Firewind Blade. Apply some sort of fire vulnerability (whetstones?) and you basically deal an awful lot of damage because they either stay and keep getting damage, or they go away and risk taking another awful lot of damage. Get powers that slow or immobilize and World Serpent's Grasp, and they can't leave. It's pretty fun. Combine it with a good Defender (the most simple example I can think of is Darth Vader), and it'll be painful for your DM.
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Well, I decided to try making a Lv. 30 Human Psion and focus on Psychic powers for the Psychic Lock feat. Here's what I came up with.

    Class: Psion - Shaper Psion - Shaper Focus
    Race: Human - Bonus At-Will Power
    Theme: Escaped Thrall
    Background: Officer Who Came Out of Retirement (+ History skill and +1 to History and Initiative)
    PP: Dreamwalker
    ED: Destined Scion (+1 ATK, +2 INT and CHA)

    Stats: STR: 9, CON: 16, DEX: 18, INT: 30, WIS: 17, CHA: 27

    HP: 170, Speed: 7, Initiative: +33
    AC: 45, FORT: 43, REF: 45, WILL: 46

    +38 ATK bonus, +30 DMG bonus.

    Feats: H: Human Ingenuity, Ritual Caster, Staff Expertise, Accurate Staff, Accurate Orb, Disciplie Adept, Leather Armor Prof., Superior Fortitude;
    P: Psychic Lock, Blade Initiate (MC Swordmage - for MBA/OA with next feat), Intelligent Blademaster, Psionic Staff Focus, Orb Expertise, Staff Implement Focus, Corrosive Thoughts;
    E: Superior Initiative, Staff Weapon Focus, Psionic Toughness, Dominating Mind, Toughness.

    Items: +6 Accurate Staff of Ruin, Epic Siberys Shard of the Mage (+5 dmg), Starleather Battle Harness armor, Epic Diamond Cincture, Epic Circlet of Indomitability, +6 Amulet of Elegy, Epic Bracers of Mighty Striking (+6 Melee dmg), Guantlets of the Ram, Opal Ring of Remembrance (+2 ATK), Star Opal Ring (+1 Speed), Epic Boots of Quicknness (+3 REF.) (Also, +6 Earthroot Staff for non-dmg powers)

    Powers:

    AW:

    Dishearten (L1 - Human Bonus)
    Mind Lock (L1)
    Dual Hallucination (L13)
    Sudden Control (L23)
    Psionic Veil (L27)

    D:

    Psychofeedback (L15)
    True Dream Form (Dreamwalker 20)
    Thrall (L25)
    Microcosm (L29)

    E:

    Dream Blade (Dreamwalker 11)

    U:

    Extra Effort (Human L2 - Encntr)
    Mind Over Flesh (L10 - Encntr)
    Psychic Chirurgery (L16 - Encntr)
    Warding Shield (L22 - Encntr)

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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    Battleminds need some way of getting a solid MBA (beyond melee training). That means Tiefling MC Paladin and Wrath of the Crimson Legion, or Half Elf Dilettante Eldritch Strike (really only gets going in Paragon). The other alternative, as GPuzzle noted, is a hybrid- Paladin|Battlemind hybrids are at the very top of the power curve for hybrids ...
    Avengers can also get a decent Wis-based MBA by spending a feat, and battleminds like Wis okay. But they like Cha more (in my experience) and paladins don't have to blow a feat on a Cha-based MBA. Battlemind combined with swordmage can take Intelligent Blademaster, and battlemind/monk could use Internalize the Basic Kata, but that costs more feats and uses a stat battleminds don't usually care about. Not a bad one, just one their powers don't use.

    If we're just talking about OAs, though, there's one other awfully tasty alternative -- Heavy Blade Opportunity. Use your own main attack stat with a choice of three or four different powers that have serious control effects! You'd need Strength and Dexterity 14 by late heroic tier to qualify at 11th level when it first becomes available. Spending on Strength hurts, but getting some Dexterity is nice for initiative and Reflex ... and if you're buying up Str and Dex anyway, that also qualifies you for some other weapon feats you otherwise wouldn't consider on the battlemind.

    @OP: All the Psionic Augmentation classes are decent in terms of effectiveness but not as much as earlier classes. Battleminds are surprisingly optimizable, psions can be super if played boringly, ardents don't have much to recommend but still offer a little more moment-to-moment flexibility than normal AEDU classes. Monks are a whole other story. Monks are fun, evocative, super mobile, good at minion-swatting -- a fine addition to almost any team. And since some monk benefits can work with any stat other than Intelligence, they're easy to multiclass into or out of for interesting combinations. I haven't heard about any gamebreaking monks, but they're a class that rarely disappoints!
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfstone View Post
    Well, I decided to try making a Lv. 30 Human Psion and focus on Psychic powers for the Psychic Lock feat. Here's what I came up with.
    Some thoughts,

    Don't take a bonus at-will if you're level 3 or up; you won't be using at-wills much, so take Heroic Effort instead. There's no point in taking more than one expertise feat OR more than one superior implement OR both implement and weapon focus. Controllers don't need an MBA, save your feats for something else. Superior Will is excellent and Superior Ref is decent; Superior Fort is decidedly not. A ring of +1 speed is not worth your money on a ranged character. You don't need Toughness except at very low level. And while Leather Armor is not bad per se, controllers tend to have much better feats than that (you're expected to cover that with defensive utilities and your party defender). HTH!
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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Aedu?

    Hth?

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    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfstone View Post
    Aedu?
    At-will, Encounter, Daily, Utility

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfstone View Post
    Aedu?
    Hth?
    Hope That Helps
    Last edited by Epinephrine; 2014-09-22 at 02:47 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    Avengers can also get a decent Wis-based MBA by spending a feat, and battleminds like Wis okay. But they like Cha more (in my experience) and paladins don't have to blow a feat on a Cha-based MBA. Battlemind combined with swordmage can take Intelligent Blademaster, and battlemind/monk could use Internalize the Basic Kata, but that costs more feats and uses a stat battleminds don't usually care about. Not a bad one, just one their powers don't use.

    If we're just talking about OAs, though, there's one other awfully tasty alternative -- Heavy Blade Opportunity. Use your own main attack stat with a choice of three or four different powers that have serious control effects! You'd need Strength and Dexterity 14 by late heroic tier to qualify at 11th level when it first becomes available. Spending on Strength hurts, but getting some Dexterity is nice for initiative and Reflex ... and if you're buying up Str and Dex anyway, that also qualifies you for some other weapon feats you otherwise wouldn't consider on the battlemind.
    For a Battlemind to get Overwhelming Strike, you again need to be a Half Elf Dilettanting...at which point, just grab Eldritch Strike, since it's CON based, Arcane (can be useful), and slides. If you're talking about hybriding, it seems a waste to take them when Paladins hybrid with Battleminds so much better and don't really need their AC fixed. Swordmage works ok, the problem being that Battlemind punishment is really Interrupt based, and so is Swordmage; Paladins get free punishment. Just a note on that- Hybrid Divine Challenge was errataed (originally it required an Immediate to do the damage, it no longer does). They never updated with that errata in the online Compendium or Charabcter Builder, though.

    The two real weapon specific ways to do interesting things with a Battlemind are HBO, as you noted, and Dizzying Mace, which requires MCing fighter. A Battlemind|Paladin/Fighter/Champion of Order can do some pretty disgusting things- at level 11, daze/weaken/mark/additional -5 to hit on round 1 (end never), and then at level 13, daze/mark/-5 to hit (-6 at level 14), until start of your next turn at will. Sadly, there are no Heavy Blade/Mace combos, so you can't combine the two tricks.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2013

    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    There is something close, and that's going Arena Fighter with a Bastard Sword+Mace as your Arena Weapons, MC'ing Battlemind and getting Intellect Snap in the switch. Not the best, but not the worst either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    The Joker is supposed to be a nightmarish figure, the culmination of all things despicable and horrible about mankind. Of course he's a hipster.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2013

    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Epinephrine View Post
    At-will, Encounter, Daily, Utility


    Hope That Helps
    O.I.C. lol. But seriously, thanks.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2013

    Default Re: Augment/Power Point (and Monk as well) classes worth playing?

    And here's my Lv. 30 Human Battlemind:

    Battlemind - Wild Battlemind - Persistent Harrier
    Human - Extra At-Will
    Theme: Noble Adept
    Background: Detective
    PP: Zephyr Blade
    ED: Destined Scion (+STR & +CHA)

    Final Stats: STR: 17, CON: 30, DEX: 19, INT: 9, WIS: 14, CHA: 16

    +38 ATK bonus, +30 dmg Bonus (with Lightning weapon and Epic Ebberon Shard of Lightning for extra +5 dmg)

    HP: 219, Speed: 9, Initiative: +33

    AC: 47, FORT: 45, REF: 45, WILL: 44

    Items: +6 Lightning Bastard Sword w/ Epic Ebberon Shard of Lightning), Shield of Ultimate Protection (Heavy), Epic Helm of Battle +3 Init.), +6 Torc of Power Preservation, Epic Iron Armbands of power (+6 dmg), Gauntlets of Destruction, Spectral Plate - Godplate Armor (+14 AC, no speed or skill check penalty), Epic Diamond Cincture, Epic Boots of Quickness, Star Opal Ring, Ring of Guarded Will (+2 Will).

    FEATS:

    H: Bastard Sword Proficiency, Heavy Blade Expertise, Human Ingenuity, Harrying Step, Melee Training CON, Superior Reflexes, Mark of Storm

    P: Demand's Reach, Courageous Mind, Heavy Blade Opportunity, Heavy Blade Focus, Lure of Iron, Deadly Draw

    E: Superior Initiative, Rapid Mind Spike, Devouring Demand, Battlemind Menace, Prescient Retaliation, Plate Armor Prof.

    Powers:

    A:

    Bull's Strength (Human Bonus L1)
    Lightning Rush (L7)
    Gravity Well (L17)
    Mind of Mirrors (L27)

    E:

    Knifing Wind (Zephyr Blade 11)

    D:

    Shattered Time (L9)
    Mind Blade (L15)
    Storm Dance Strike (Zephyr Blade 20)
    Omniscient Strike (L29)

    U (encounter powers):

    Adept's Insight (Noble Adept)
    Telepathic Challenge (L2)
    Winged Weapon (L6)
    Hands of the Titan (L10)
    Mental Zephyr (Zephyr Blade 12)
    Instant Move (L16)
    Indomitable Maneuver (L22)

    U (Daily):

    Epic Recovery (Destines Scion 26)
    Undeniable Victory (Destined Scion 30)

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