If you were a (Insert Spellcasting Class)...

[Rubik]

There are good and bad humans. Why not just use a self-replicating trap to punish the bad ones? You have everything from Suggestion to Dominate Person to Polymorph Any Object: a wide variety of things to enforce your will on people who abuse the people and world around them.

[Phelix-Mu]

There are good and bad humans. Why not just use a self-replicating trap to punish the bad ones? You have everything from Suggestion to Dominate Person to Polymorph Any Object: a wide variety of things to enforce your will on people who abuse the people and world around them.

Meh. I don't like being the arbiter of who is acceptable and who is not. That assumes I have some right to choose. I'd much rather just subject the entirety of the populace (possibly including myself...but I have magic, so...) to a much harsher natural selection paradigm. This would force people to work hard, band together, and generally spend less time in self-indulgent pursuits and more time considering important stuff (like how to survive tomorrow).

I suppose it's still a form of manipulation, but at least I get to sit back and feel like the method is more "balanced." Hehe.

I'm also, irl, a druid at heart, so things like man-eating trees and animals that fight back all sound pretty cool to me. Won't stop humanity's big guns, of course, but will level the field enough that the rest of my magic would be able to supplement the general effort to keep humans in line (at least in regards to the environment). I would also be helping the subsistence farmers with sustainable agriculture and keeping the land fertile, and providing cleaner sources of water and sanitation, so I don't really mind if some tree I awakened is out there crushing the skulls of idiots that endanger our collective survival by despoiling limited resources.

Also, due to widespread magical contravention of thermodynamics, hyperbolic use of stuff like chill metal and the like could have a profound impact on world climate if used with the proper scale. Even stuff like control weather, while not as dramatic as fimbulwinter, would still be pretty effective at altering local climates over limited timescales.

Also of note, there is a 4th level druid spell, summon elemental guardian, from dragon, which lasts days/level. I'd have to read it again, but I think the creature can do non-combat stuff by command during that time, which would be useful for all kinds of stuff, as it has several useful spammable abilities.

ETF also really breaks the game, but there's a serious question of if enough cheese can be conjured to get to the point where proper abuse can be accomplished.

Hehe. Just full of ideas all of a sudden. Definite sign that I am likely procrastinating in some fashion, even if I don't realize it.

[Rubik]

RL humans are WAY outside of our CR when technology is considered. A single E6 human could obliterate an entire continent and everything on it with a single button-push.

I'm pretty sure "natural selection" would be anything but natural, and would lead to the direct destruction of any- and everything even remotely vicious.

There's a real reason why almost all of Earth's apex predators started their march to extinction as humans evolved to our current level of evolution.

[Phelix-Mu]

RL humans are WAY outside of our CR when technology is considered. A single E6 human could obliterate an entire continent and everything on it with a single button-push.

I'm pretty sure "natural selection" would be anything but natural, and would lead to the direct destruction of any- and everything even remotely vicious.

There's a real reason why almost all of Earth's apex predators started their march to extinction as humans evolved to our current level of evolution.

I'm not suggesting that humans would be helpless. Just that some spells could easily make life much harder on quite a large scale. Enough that human behavior would begin to change in order to cope with the problem (at least the lives of those affected).

And any plan to alter the world that hasn't already dealt with the humans that have access to those buttons isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Properly dealing with them is wizard purview.

If I really wanted to cause problems, I would just tinker around with gaps in the RL v RAW interactions until I had a real exploit. Like using baleful polymorph to allow animal diseases to cross into the human population. Druids are actually pretty good at contagion, Cancer Mages excepted, of course. I would be hesitant to use disease in this manner, but the option exists, and could probably yield some pretty high body counts with a minimal amount of effort if deployed optimally.

More sensibly, it would be fun to try to alter genomes via magical manipulation. What happens when a Wild Shaped druid breeds with animals? What happens when awakened animals breed with each other? (Answer: probably nothing, sadly.) What aspects of genetics are changed via polymorph? Is protein expression in cells altered by polymorphing effects altered? What about for longer lasting polymorph effects? What are the ramifications of non-RL types interacting genetically with humans (harvest reproductive materials from celestial summons, perhaps)? What about conferring permanent immunities?

And all of that is pretty basic. Given some of the stuff available at Tippy levels of optimization (assuming there is a method of reaching those levels), technology itself begins to look pretty much like a footnote.

[Dalebert]

Some interesting questions get raised by this concept that I found myself thinking about. Not surprisingly, it was while I was doing some chores, like...

Does an Unseen Servant know how to load a dishwasher? A D&D commoner would be clueless but a modern commoner knows how to this. It should be no more than DC 10. For that matter, can an Unseen Servant send a text message for you on your phone? Drive your car?

Do illusions show up on cameras? If so, can modern technology be used to figure out it's not real and if so, what would they think is going on? Would they think it's special effects in post? Can you disbelieve it while watching it on video and then will it look transparent? Does it automatically look transparent on video because your mind isn't there while the magic is happening to somehow reinforce it with belief?

What about partially real Shadow Magic?

Glamers like Disguise Self?

Does your cell phone work inside your Handy Haversack? Does metal show up on the airport scanner when you run your Handy Haversack through? (Not that you would be using the airport much. Just curious.)

Can I research a new cantrip to recharge small devices like a cell phone? I would want that!

The I realized these are all stupid and pointless questions that are completely arbitrary.

[Jacob.Tyr]

I'm not suggesting that humans would be helpless. Just that some spells could easily make life much harder on quite a large scale. Enough that human behavior would begin to change in order to cope with the problem (at least the lives of those affected).

And any plan to alter the world that hasn't already dealt with the humans that have access to those buttons isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Properly dealing with them is wizard purview.

If I really wanted to cause problems, I would just tinker around with gaps in the RL v RAW interactions until I had a real exploit. Like using baleful polymorph to allow animal diseases to cross into the human population. Druids are actually pretty good at contagion, Cancer Mages excepted, of course. I would be hesitant to use disease in this manner, but the option exists, and could probably yield some pretty high body counts with a minimal amount of effort if deployed optimally.

More sensibly, it would be fun to try to alter genomes via magical manipulation. What happens when a Wild Shaped druid breeds with animals? What happens when awakened animals breed with each other? (Answer: probably nothing, sadly.) What aspects of genetics are changed via polymorph? Is protein expression in cells altered by polymorphing effects altered? What about for longer lasting polymorph effects? What are the ramifications of non-RL types interacting genetically with humans (harvest reproductive materials from celestial summons, perhaps)? What about conferring permanent immunities?

And all of that is pretty basic. Given some of the stuff available at Tippy levels of optimization (assuming there is a method of reaching those levels), technology itself begins to look pretty much like a footnote.

Okay, I had never thought about whether or not polymorph et al modify genomes, and now I can't stop wondering about it. Productivity=Tanked.

If you really want to help rewild the Earth and protect natural resources and environments, this is a pretty weirdly roundabout way to do it. Turning every logging operation into something out of WH40K isn't going to stop logging. If we're talking even close to Tippy levels of optimization, you just completely negate the need for natural resources by creating a post-scarcity economy. Move it to a demi-plane that reads like a crossover of Rapture and Planescape. Make it a slow time plane as well, and you can ensure that even after a few weeks anyone sneaking back to Earth is going to find a radically different planet completely covered in wilderness.

Actually that sounds amazing. Screw everything else, my plan is to now make a really slow time demi-plane, set up a simulacrum there who will every 5 days/5,000 years go out and sample flora/fauna and build a giant zoo out of the next few millenia of life on earth. After ~1 year real time, he uses Teleport Through Time and pops out back to when he left, with my menagerie in tow. Maybe store them in some sort of stasis, and then spend the rest of my life/career studying them. Pretty sure that would get me a job at any R1 I wanted, once I managed to convince people I actually had these creatures.

[Rubik]

Do illusions show up on cameras? If so, can modern technology be used to figure out it's not real and if so, what would they think is going on? Would they think it's special effects in post? Can you disbelieve it while watching it on video and then will it look transparent? Does it automatically look transparent on video because your mind isn't there while the magic is happening to somehow reinforce it with belief?

What about partially real Shadow Magic?

Glamers like Disguise Self?

Anything that isn't [Mind-Affecting] will show up on a camera, since glamers are like holograms -- even mindless drone constructs can see them.

And if [Mind-Affecting] things can be relayed through cameras...

...well, you just found a way to take over the world within minutes.

[Ruethgar]

Spoiler: Crunchy Stuff

Show

Level 1 Human Animal Companion(UA) Focused Conjuration Specialist Wizard take Murky Eyed, Non-Combatant(both flaws I actually have), Innate Spell(DrM: Go with an Ocular Ray Extend Persist Sanctum War Create Water SLA 1/day), Create Scroll Device, Heighten Spell, Sanctum Spell, cross class Autohypnosis paired with Create Device to memorize my spells. Churn out Sanctum 0-level scrolls to gain XP and sell their effects(for example prestidigitation at a car wash/dry cleaner/hair salon/magic show/maid service), cheesy I know but get off my back, I don't want to slaughter animals. Without such cheese I would try the other mentioned ways to get solidly into 8th level.

Level 3, Craft Wondrous Item because traps are awesome.
Level 5, Craft Rune Circle because they are cheap and very useful(especially as Wondrous Architecture).
Level 8, Ritual of Vitality myself into a Cheese-wrought Kobold, Spellhoarding, Arcane, White Dragonspawn, Loredrake, Chosen of Mystra.

I would not use my magic for much because I am a little paranoid. Assuming the scroll trick works, I would get a job detailing cars to use up all the scrolls I make and prestidigitate in all spell slots for the practical things like heating my food, cleaning etc. Once I reach level 8, I don't have to be paranoid anymore and can start making my own demi-planes for friends and family, or you know, claim the moon as mine and terraform it, I actually like that idea better, more dangerous but still it makes me seem less like I'm just abandoning Earth.

Use my wish SLA for a single casting of Invisible Circle Magic to CL40 War Twin Ocular Ray Splitting Split Ray Chain Ray Extend Persist Wall of Stone, a level 4 spell. That will encircle the moon with easily 3 miles of space including stabilization pillars. Make a similarly insane True Creation wish for air adding on the grass growth side effect to have ground cover over about 4 million miles at a time(of the 14.6 million). A second more reasonable casting with the downpour side effect to make instant oceans(the original version creates more water than is on Earth so a bit too much for the moon). The amount of air created doesn't matter since it is measured in cubic feet with no regards to density I can compact all the needed air into my allowable creation space and it explodes upon creation to fill my dome. Make permanent daylights inside and have True Creation(Create Device: Wondrous Feather Tokens with power source included) to make a forest as well as True Create fertile seeds and eggs(non-magic dragons are going to be one of them).

[Phelix-Mu]

My main limiting factor was a ceiling on how high we can advance ourselves as a spellcaster, due to lack of level-appropriate enemies. Thus, much of Tippyverse is in question without some pretty hefty cheese. With less tools, I like a lower-impact solution, and much of that involves using real-world stuff to do the dirty work. Spells just catalyze the changes that ultimately are the goal. In this case, just a measure of parity between animals/plants and mankind is desirable to me, and if animals can't be effectively brought up that far, then I can certainly indulge in a bit of the other option.

I don't want to radically alter the world. I rather like the world. Just inject a bit of the unusual to make people consider things more.

Or kill all humans. Really, I vacillate quite a bit.

[Ruethgar]

Don't kill all humans, the race can survive just fine with a 99.999% culling. All you need to do is get 100 people for an incantation to contract the zombie fog disease(modified with side effects so it can actually kill people and be spread by more than injestion). Also, it only requires caster level 7 to perform the savage species rituals to change race(such as adding Chosen of Mystra for free SLAs).