Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

[Erik Vale]

Charging never betters better (or worse) if you are really fast (or slow) except if you use a lance on a mount (even if it is slower than you are on foot).

... I know your speaking English, but can you actually speak it, because your sentence keeps breaking my brain.

[Sith_Happens]

... I know your speaking English, but can you actually speak it, because your sentence keeps breaking my brain.

He's saying that not only does the effectiveness of a charge stay the same regardless of your speed, but you could be faster than a horse and still need to use the horse to deal double damage with a lance.

[Gemini476]

I think the lance part is more having a 1 ton horse moving with you then speed (this isn't worthy of killing cat girls over, it would take moving at a speed of over 100 ft/rd for a 200 lb creature to mimic the energy gained from adding a horses mass to your own)

Let's say, hypothetically, that you have a mount with a move speed of... 5ft, since that's the minimum. Maybe it's a very slow giant or something, I dunno.

And you, in turn, are a Monk with a move speed of 90ft. Plus a bit more, if we add on various applicable feats and the Quick trait. Get proficiency in a lance through whatever means.

Charging on the shoulders of Captain Slow the Hibernating Giant will still be more effective than speed-blitzing with your Monk-based super-speed.

I'm pretty sure that the double damage on a charge thing is just a legacy mechanic from back when you'd maybe get two attacks per round as a Fighter anyway.

[ShurikVch]

Eldritch Disciple can Coup de Grace with his Healing Blast. Targeted creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. (Unless it's undead, of course! )

Text trumps table. Advancement table for Oozemaster says about sizable Charisma penalties every even level. Text disagree.

[Curmudgeon]

Text trumps table. Advancement table for Oozemaster says about sizable Charisma penalties every even level. Text disagree.

Where, exactly, is this disagreement? I don't find anything in the Oozemaster class description (Masters of the Wild, pages 67-68) which says there are not Charisma penalties increasing every even level.

[ShurikVch]

Where, exactly, is this disagreement? I don't find anything in the Oozemaster class description (Masters of the Wild, pages 67-68) which says there are not Charisma penalties increasing every even level.

Dunno... Same reason why Vermin Lord have(n't) his pincer claws?..

[geekintheground]

didnt see this in the handbook, and there might be something im missing but: the rod of wonder can shrink the wielder to 1/12 their original height with no save. but theres no change in size category, reach, or speed. so if a 6' tall human used it they would be a medium sized 6" human with a 30' movement speed. if it happened to a large creature with 50' speed, theyd still count as large, still have 10' reach and still move 50'/round

[Necroticplague]

Eldritch Disciple can Coup de Grace with his Healing Blast. Targeted creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. (Unless it's undead, of course! )

...I don't think this is remotely true. As per coup-de-grace:

As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.

A Healing Blast is not a melee weapon, nor is it a bow or crossbow. Thus, you can't CDG with it.

[ShurikVch]

...I don't think this is remotely true. As per coup-de-grace:

A Healing Blast is not a melee weapon, nor is it a bow or crossbow. Thus, you can't CDG with it.

Eldritch Glaive? Eldritch Claws? Hideous Blow?

[Necroticplague]

Eldritch Glaive? Eldritch Claws? Hideous Blow?

The first uses up a full-round action to form it, and is used to attack with it. it'll dissipate by the time you have actions available to CDG with it. The second you can CDG with, but not apply Healing Blast to, since you can't use blast essences with your claws (which are not an eldritch blast to begin with). The third uses up a standard action, and thus is incompatible with the full-round required for CDG, in addition to not leaving something around for you to use.

[ShurikVch]

The first uses up a full-round action to form it, and is used to attack with it. it'll dissipate by the time you have actions available to CDG with it. The second you can CDG with, but not apply Healing Blast to, since you can't use blast essences with your claws (which are not an eldritch blast to begin with). The third uses up a standard action, and thus is incompatible with the full-round required for CDG, in addition to not leaving something around for you to use.

Quicken Spell-Like Ability?

[Necroticplague]

Quicken Spell-Like Ability?

Still doesn't solve the problem that these two (eldritch glaive and hideous blow) aren't "use the action, get a weapon", they're "you make an attack". So a Quickened Eldritch Glaive doesn't give you a glaive which you can use as you please, it would let you full-attack as a swift action, and a Quickened Hideous Blow just lets you make an attack that EB damage gets added to. And an attack is not the same thing as a CDG, so you couldn't use the attacks provided to do that.

[Gemini476]

Didn't Complete Arcane introduce some rules for Coup de Grace with spells? Or am I misremembering things?

[The Random NPC]

I recall reading somewhere that you can start a full action on one round and finish it the next. I'll try to find it.

EDIT: Here's the SRD on it, you can start a CDG if you have a standard action, but you must finish it the next round.

[ShurikVch]

Still doesn't solve the problem that these two (eldritch glaive and hideous blow) aren't "use the action, get a weapon", they're "you make an attack". So a Quickened Eldritch Glaive doesn't give you a glaive which you can use as you please, it would let you full-attack as a swift action, and a Quickened Hideous Blow just lets you make an attack that EB damage gets added to. And an attack is not the same thing as a CDG, so you couldn't use the attacks provided to do that.

Death Blow?

[Necroticplague]

Death Blow?

Doesn't let you use an attack (such as those provided by Eldritch Glaive or Hideous Blow) to do a CDG, it allows you to make a CDG quicker. Still not possible for those two to make a CDG, and not possible to have Healing Blast hit something you CDG.

[Tarlek Flamehai]

didnt see this in the handbook, and there might be something im missing but: the rod of wonder can shrink the wielder to 1/12 their original height with no save. but theres no change in size category, reach, or speed. so if a 6' tall human used it they would be a medium sized 6" human with a 30' movement speed. if it happened to a large creature with 50' speed, theyd still count as large, still have 10' reach and still move 50'/round

I don't have the books in front of me, but I am pretty sure Size is determined by size, and not by race, type, etc. That's why when you Improve a monster by changing its Size it doesn't become a whole new monster.

[ShurikVch]

Doesn't let you use an attack (such as those provided by Eldritch Glaive or Hideous Blow) to do a CDG, it allows you to make a CDG quicker. Still not possible for those two to make a CDG, and not possible to have Healing Blast hit something you CDG.

OK
At the very least, is it possible to CDG with usual melee weapon, charged with Cure ... Wounds or Heal spell via Spell Storing, Spell Storing Item, Arcane Channeling, Arcane Infusion, or Channel Spell?

[nedz]

I recall reading somewhere that you can start a full action on one round and finish it the next. I'll try to find it.

EDIT: Here's the SRD on it, you can start a CDG if you have a standard action, but you must finish it the next round.

Doesn't help — that's just a different kind of Standard action.

Where, exactly, is this disagreement? I don't find anything in the Oozemaster class description (Masters of the Wild, pages 67-68) which says there are not Charisma penalties increasing every even level.

Agreed, the text is silent on this.

Though I am curious as to what 1d4 points of Stunning Damage means (Minor Oozy Touch — Ochre jelly ) ?
Is this a 3.0 thing ?

[Necroticplague]

OK
At the very least, is it possible to CDG with usual melee weapon, charged with Cure ... Wounds or Heal spell via Spell Storing, Spell Storing Item, Arcane Channeling, Arcane Infusion, or Channel Spell?

In order of the linked things:

1.Well, Spell Storing would trigger AFTER the CDG, but yes, you could decide to heal them (and yes, it would be a decision, thanks to if-then nature, and free action required, along with "if the weilder desires"). Seems like an odd decision, but you could.

2.No, because the casting of the spell using the "wand" and the CDG would be separate actions.

3.No, same problem as Hideous Blow: standard action attack, not something you can CDG with. If you refer to the level 13 upgrade, then still no, because that's part of the Full-Round Attack action, which is different from using a full-round action to CDG someone.

4.No, because that doesn't even remotely come close to doing anything relevant. It just lets you add elemental damage to an attack, nothing about it would let you add healing to it (unless you hit something that heals from that element).

5.Yes.

[Curmudgeon]

Didn't Complete Arcane introduce some rules for Coup de Grace with spells? Or am I misremembering things?

Sneak attack with spells, yes. Nothing about coup de grace.

[Svata]

Its really a shame that coup de grace is so limited in what it can bedone with. Means you can't coup de grace a ogre mage/troll/other creature with regen overcome by fire by pouring a vial of alchemist's fire down their throat. Which would be awesome.

[Namfuak]

I don't think I saw anyone mention this, but in terms of things you could do with the negative caster level thing, you could have spells affect creatures retroactively since their duration would be negative. I feel like this could be really powerful, like if you cast glitterdust on an invisible creature a round after everyone failed to notice it and it sneak attacked a party member.

[Inevitability]

I don't think I saw anyone mention this, but in terms of things you could do with the negative caster level thing, you could have spells affect creatures retroactively since their duration would be negative. I feel like this could be really powerful, like if you cast glitterdust on an invisible creature a round after everyone failed to notice it and it sneak attacked a party member.

Did you... did you just make cantrips able to travel through time?

You sir, are my hero.

[Jeff the Green]

I don't think I saw anyone mention this, but in terms of things you could do with the negative caster level thing, you could have spells affect creatures retroactively since their duration would be negative. I feel like this could be really powerful, like if you cast glitterdust on an invisible creature a round after everyone failed to notice it and it sneak attacked a party member.

I don't think this works. Duration is one of those things that, like magnitude or heat, can't go negative. All that happens if you cast a spell with a duration of 1 round/level at a negative caster level is that you break the game.

[Necroticplague]

I don't think this works. Duration is one of those things that, like magnitude or heat, can't go negative. All that happens if you cast a spell with a duration of 1 round/level at a negative caster level is that you break the game.

Any measurement with a direction can be negative. Since duration has an, at least implicit, direction (of "into the future"), then it can be negative by going in the opposite direction. Kinda like how velocity can be negative ("How far north did you go?" "Negative 50" "?" "I went south").

[NeoPhoenix0]

Any measurement with a direction can be negative. Since duration has an, at least implicit, direction (of "into the future"), then it can be negative by going in the opposite direction. Kinda like how velocity can be negative ("How far north did you go?" "Negative 50" "?" "I went south").

duration is an amount of time, it does not have a direction, that is the issue with that. going back in time would mean it would still have a positive duration.

edit: i explained that poorly, it's like haveing negative 2 apples

[georgie_leech]

duration is an amount of time, it does not have a direction, that is the issue with that. going back in time would mean it would still have a positive duration.

edit: i explained that poorly, it's like haveing negative 2 apples

The difference being that number of apples is a quantity and time, so far as physics looks at it, is a dimension. We perceive time as linear, but it's mathematically more consistent to treat it as analogous to the spatial dimensions.

All donations will be given to the Save the Catgirls breeding program.

[Jeff the Green]

The difference being that number of apples is a quantity and time, so far as physics looks at it, is a dimension. We perceive time as linear, but it's mathematically more consistent to treat it as analogous to the spatial dimensions.

All donations will be given to the Save the Catgirls breeding program.

Which is fine, but duration is an amount of time, much as a cubic foot is an amount of space. You can't have a negative duration than you can a negative volume.

[No brains]

Which is fine, but duration is an amount of time, much as a cubic foot is an amount of space. You can't have a negative duration than you can a negative volume.

Bag of Holding, Portable Hole, and the special spatial 'splosion they make together want to have a very loud word with you. Also if swallow whole scales with a creature's current size and not just its original size (or even if it does) you can end up with paradoxical amounts of space in a T-rex.