Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

[ShurikVch]

Huh. What things (other than Irresistible Spell) have a no-save-just-die effect?

Transcend Mortality

Corruption score 126+

Con 0

Negative levels

Life And Death

[pi4t]

The "Up the Walls" feat of both 3.5 and Pathfinder only says that the surface that you're on at the end of your move has to be horizontal...not that you have to be on the upper side of it. Run up the wall and end your move on the ceiling and you'll be absolutely fine.

[Gemini476]

The "Up the Walls" feat of both 3.5 and Pathfinder only says that the surface that you're on at the end of your move has to be horizontal...not that you have to be on the upper side of it. Run up the wall and end your move on the ceiling and you'll be absolutely fine.

...The 3.5 version doesn't allow you to move onto the ceiling, though. It only gives you the ability to run up walls.

Unless I'm reading it wrong.

[nedz]

[3.5] If the floor isn't quite horizontal though, then you still fall prone — or if you sit down in a chair or something.

If you do not end your move on a horizontal surface, you fall prone, taking falling damage as appropriate for your distance above the ground.

[Curmudgeon]

The "Up the Walls" feat of both 3.5 and Pathfinder only says that the surface that you're on at the end of your move has to be horizontal...not that you have to be on the upper side of it. Run up the wall and end your move on the ceiling and you'll be absolutely fine.

Prior to the invention of drywall board, ceilings were rarely flat horizontal expanses. At best you'd have exposed beams supporting the floor above, with narrow stretches of horizontal plastered ceiling between.

[Flickerdart]

The "Up the Walls" feat of both 3.5 and Pathfinder only says that the surface that you're on at the end of your move has to be horizontal...not that you have to be on the upper side of it. Run up the wall and end your move on the ceiling and you'll be absolutely fine.

This is widely perpetuated, but still wrong. "Up the Walls" doesn't have permissive text for staying on surfaces. All it says is, if you're not on a horizontal surface, you fall. The feat has nothing to say about what happens when you end your turn on a horizontal surface, so you default to the existing rules, which don't let you stand on ceilings, and so you fall down.

[Sith_Happens]

Huh. What things (other than Irresistible Spell) have a no-save-just-die effect?

Update: The second paragraph of the Tarrasque's regeneration either solves the dysfunction or compounds it, I can't tell which:

The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.

So, with this in mind, if you hit it with a no-save-just-die, what happens?

[Fax Celestis]

Well, considering the text seems to think that regeneration keeps working after it dies (due to the "keep it" dead bit), I suppose slay living or whatever would put it at -10, and then it would just...regen to positive?

[rockdeworld]

So, with this in mind, if you hit it with a no-save-just-die, what happens?

By RAW, it doesn't die.

[bekeleven]

By RAW, it doesn't die.

Or it dies, but isn't slain.

[Gemini476]

Well, considering the text seems to think that regeneration keeps working after it dies (due to the "keep it" dead bit), I suppose slay living or whatever would put it at -10, and then it would just...regen to positive?

Speaking of abilities working after death, is that a thing? I mean, a corpse is a creature with the Dead condition and not an object, right? Or did I get that wrong?

Would permanent abilities like a Golem's spell immunity still stick around after death, assuming that said golem somehow had the ability to die rather than be "destroyed"?
The soul of the creature has left their body and their HP is constantly reset to -10 from the Dead condition and they're unconscious because of their nonlethal damage exceeding their hit points, but would abilities that don't rely on all that still be active?

This seems like something that really should have been clarified at some point.

[Erik Vale]

Shapesand can be reshaped into anything non-masterwork by passing a wisdom check [DC 16, take 20]
It costs 8.3[Cont]gp to the pound.
Platinum costs 50gp to the pound. With which you by get the masterwork thing.

[Venger]

outcast champion's aura of confidence is lost when you go unconscious or die. it never says when it comes back, so presumably the first time you are killed or take a nap, you lose the class feature.

[Curmudgeon]

outcast champion's aura of confidence is lost when you go unconscious or die. it never says when it comes back, so presumably the first time you are killed or take a nap, you lose the class feature.

Nah, this is saved by being Extraordinary.

Aura of Confidence (Ex): Your presence emboldens allies within 30 feet who can see you (including yourself). They add your class level as a morale bonus on their Will saves. This effect is lost if you fall unconscious or die.

Using an extraordinary ability is usually not an action because most extraordinary abilities automatically happen in a reactive fashion.

It's automatically back up whenever you're not unconscious/dead.

[Rubik]

The Shatter spell auto-destroys nonmagical objects when the spell is cast as an AoE.

Creatures, when targeted directly, take damage.

Objects, when targeted directly, asdfailkjaisdou-0912u34on09189023l4kn

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[Venger]

The Shatter spell auto-destroys nonmagical objects when the spell is cast as an AoE.

Creatures, when targeted directly, take damage.

Objects, when targeted directly, asdfailkjaisdou-0912u34on09189023l4kn

[404 auto-cucumber error; variable undefined]

oh no, he failed his truespeak check! everybody run for your lives, or you'll be unable to taste ice cream!

[Gemini476]

The Shatter spell auto-destroys nonmagical objects when the spell is cast as an AoE.

Creatures, when targeted directly, take damage.

Objects, when targeted directly, asdfailkjaisdou-0912u34on09189023l4kn

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...The description hints at it being a Sunder attempt, but who knows what the actual mechanics would be.

Did this get touched upon in the premium rerelease, or was it glossed over?

[Ksheep]

Shapesand can be reshaped into anything non-masterwork by passing a wisdom check [DC 16, take 20]
It costs 8.3[Cont]gp to the pound.
Platinum costs 50gp to the pound. With which you by get the masterwork thing.

Not really. Shapesand objects are "made of sand, but serve as a normal item of the same sort." You try to craft a Platinum coin with Shapesand, you now have a coin which is made of sand. It doesn't gain the value of the item that it is mimicking, it only gains the functionality.

[geekintheground]

Not really. Shapesand objects are "made of sand, but serve as a normal item of the same sort." You try to craft a Platinum coin with Shapesand, you now have a coin which is made of sand. It doesn't gain the value of the item that it is mimicking, it only gains the functionality.

isnt the function of a platinum coin IN its value? or at least, one of its functions?

[Inevitability]

Banishment's material component is 'an item distasteful to the target'.

A component pouch contains 'all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch.'

So when someone casts Banishment, he can just pull out several dozen distasteful items beforehand, then gain +30 bonus to his safe DC. This seems not what the designers intended.

[Curmudgeon]

Banishment's material component is 'an item distasteful to the target'.

A component pouch contains 'all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch.'

So when someone casts Banishment, he can just pull out several dozen distasteful items beforehand, then gain +30 bonus to his safe DC. This seems not what the designers intended.

I'm afraid you've misread the spell, and there's no dysfunction. Firstly, that's a focus, not a material component.

Arcane Focus: Any item that is distasteful to the subject (optional, see above).

Secondly, this focus is not needed, and thus is not to be found in a spell component pouch.

[deuxhero]

Did this get touched upon in the premium rerelease, or was it glossed over?

The what now?

[Curmudgeon]

The what now?

The Premium Player's Handbook has a few unadvertised changes: it's not just a combination of the original book plus errata.

[Inevitability]

I'm afraid you've misread the spell, and there's no dysfunction. Firstly, that's a focus, not a material component.

Fine. Foci are still in the pouch though.

Secondly, this focus is not needed, and thus is not to be found in a spell component pouch.

The definition of 'needed' is: 'to require or want'. I really want a bunch of items distasteful to the target...

Also, it could be argued that those items are 'needed' to survive, as things currently aren't looking good for you.

[georgie_leech]

Fine. Foci are still in the pouch though.



The definition of 'needed' is: 'to require or want'. I really want a bunch of items distasteful to the target...

Also, it could be argued that those items are 'needed' to survive, as things currently aren't looking good for you.

Frankly, if a dysfunction requires that needing be treated as if "needing" a new computer is as important as "needing" air to breathe, you're squinting pretty hard.

[bekeleven]

Frankly, if a dysfunction requires that needing be treated as if "needing" a new computer is as important as "needing" air to breathe, you're squinting pretty hard.

Side note: If you can't speak in a vacuum, then the spell component pouch does contain infinite air.

[georgie_leech]

Side note: If you can't speak in a vacuum, then the spell component pouch does contain infinite air.

SCP's do nothing to ensure you can meet verbal components, just material.

[nedz]

SCP's do nothing to ensure you can meet verbal components, just material.

Otherwise they would contain a spare pair of arms too.

[Venger]

Otherwise they would contain a spare pair of arms too.

well, they do contain an endless supply of severed hands and endless supplies of octopus/squid tentacles (evard's black tentacles) so you could stick the hands on the end of that with some glue (stick)

[Necroticplague]

Otherwise they would contain a spare pair of arms too.

Eh, not really, arms aren't needed to cast.

Coincidentally, because of that, surrogate spellcasting does nothing, thanks to being built into the spell rules.

A spellcasting creature that lacks hands or arms can provide any somatic component a spell might require by moving its body. Such a creature also does need material components for its spells. The creature can cast the spell by either touching the required component (but not if the component is in another creature’s possession) or having the required component on its person.

plus

A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice.

Mean that anything that can move and understand language (thus enabling it to speak in a strong voice in its head) is capable of casting. So the only things surrogate spellcasting works for is a creature that doesn't understand language, but somehow has class levels.

Sub-dysfunction of above: it says to provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak, and implicitely do so. It never says you actually have to speak out loud.