OOTS #963 - The Discussion Thread

[Vinsfeld]

Allotrope!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I wonder wether the fight with the slaad was a scene from before the comic started, or a false memory that Durkon created and that would have gotten a bonus to the bluff check because its what the vampire wanted to see.

I doubt because I think that if Durkon could bring up false memories he would have done so long before.

[CaDzilla]

The HPoH is using only a slightly better charisma score to make concentration checks now. Even though he's wiser/smarter/prettier than Durkon, he still can't concentrate as well.

[Prospekt]

So uh, in the panel where Roy is stabbing through the Toad thingie, he's wearing the Belt of Giant's Strength. Dammit, now I'm one of those people... (Also, inb4 The Giant tells me he doesn't know what I'm talking about. )

Anyway, my wisdom must be not so high because it took me a few re-reads to figure out what Durkon learned from this. Really interesting development, and I cannot wait to see how/when he dupes the HPoH using this.

[stupidlazybum]

I think the giant might have gotten some inspiration for this strip from the new 5E monster manual's table of contents, which I just happened to be looking at when I read the strip.

[theNater]

I don't get the emphasis on something in the last panel

It's subtle enough that I assume the Giant wants it to surprise some people, so I'm putting it in spoilers.

Spoiler

Show

There is no emphasis on something. The emphasis is on somethin', which Durkula just said. In the privacy of Durkon's mind. Where there is no one to fool.

Durkula is gaining Durkon's accent as he absorbs Durkon's memories. What else of Durkon's might Durkula pick up?

[SaintRidley]

The vampire, an inherently evil and, more importantly here, not lawful being, missed out on the concept of respecting the rights and individuality of others. It's a subtle thing, but the point is that in trying to masquerade as being good, he's going to mess up in a way that Is indicative that he isn't Durkon.

The vampire is indisputably Lawful, given its use of Planar Ally.

[DaggerPen]

The vampire is indisputably Lawful, given its use of Planar Ally.

... all the posts we've spent debating whether the HPOH is Lawful, and this is the first time I've seen that come up. Excellent point, and I think that should settle it.

[Peelee]

Well, it's two days early, but i find this an acceptable birthday present.

[Porthos]

This update makes me happy. And not just because a pet theory I was musing about a few days ago looks a bit strengthened right now.

Might as well continue the theorizing. Characters throughout the strip have had Fatal Flaws that have led to either huge setbacks or their undoing.

Do we know enough about the HPoH to call a Fatal Flaw yet? Perhaps. Right now I'm leaning toward a combination of arrogance and impatience. We've seen time and time again already that the HPoH really doesn't have much patience, which is ironic for an immortal.

Sure, he's willing to play a long game when it suits him. But he gets bored easily. He doesn't like wasting time with what he sees as unimportant things. Instead of just stringing Belkar along, he gives in to temptation and starts messing around with him.

But early to call a defining trait. But it's not too soon to suspect it, either.

Secondly, he does seem to be more than a bit arrogant. It's not just in his extremely self-assured attitude, it's his dismissive attitude toward anything he deems as unimportant. Or, worse, he doesn't understand.

This is a very very VERY bad combo to have when it comes to flaws. It can lead you to not only overlook things, but dismiss them as being not worth a person's time to figure out. As we have seen time and time again, a person can be as smart or as wise as they come. But if they have willful blind spots... Well, it can be a problem is all I is noting.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

So.

Allotrope.

Anyways, ouch, those cowls and dishes. THere was a time not so long ago when those were expensive and passed down through generations. WHen silverware was something you bought item by item from a catalog. Poor Durkmom.

[colanderman]

1. Is that a Slaad? I don't think it's a Slaad - those have two eyes and more humanoid, right? Plus, while the art has upgraded a lot, we saw a red slaad here.

I thought it was a Froghemoth myself. (Though those usually have tentacles in addition to legs?)

[Midnight Lurker]

I thought it was a Froghemoth myself. (Though those usually have tentacles in addition to legs?)

Froghemoths have three eyes on a single retractable eyestalk, and tentacles in place of forelegs. And they're open content so the Lawyers can't get in the way. So this is most likely "just" a giant frog with three eyes.

[GAAD]

It's sort of a tradition for me to make a list of everything that happened in the latest strip. Well, actually, I don't know if it can be considered a tradition yet, since I only did it once so far, but darn it, I'm making it a tradition now.
Kudos to those who recognize the above passage.
What Happened:

We learned Durkon's middle name, which is apparently a geological pun.
Durkon tried to help his mum with the dishes.
Sigdi measured her life in cp.
Sigdi waited for her pension.
Durkula revealed that he is easily bored.
Durkon revealed an ingrained desire for inactivity caused by Sigdi's lessons.
Roy told off Durkon.
Roy and Durkon killed a frog beast.
Durkon realized said ingrained desire for inactivity.
Durkula failed sixth grade English.
Durkon told the same boring joke five hundred times.
Since everybody else is spoilering these for those who didn't realize it: <White text> Durkula ACCIDENTALLY used Durkon's accent in a statement.
Durkon realized that Durkula is accidentally utilizing his manner of speech.
Nobody fixed the airship.
Rich drew a final panel that kind of looks like an eye looking forward, thereby providing a visual stealth punchline to the final piece of dialogue.
Durkon has All O' the Tropes. ALL OF THEM.

[Darth Paul]

I gotta say it;

I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Jerkon. (Jerkula?)

That's if the story takes the shape we expect it to and the HPoH gets revealed in some way due to his own fatal flaws, which we are beginning to see exist. Early on he was so diabolically evil and perfectly in control that it was easy to hate him and feel nothing else, but (as with all good fictional villains) the more I learn about him the more he is relatable. After all, he seems to be a guy doing his job. It's a dirty, rotten job, but if he doesn't do it, he has no existence! What would we do as a conjured spirit, shoved into a body for a specific purpose? And maybe- just maybe- there is a possibility for a Heel-Face Turn somewhere down the line...

[Lissou]

I've been really enjoying Durkon's memories. Looks like the second one is from before they recruited the rest of the party.

I saw the connection right away (I mean, switch from "always ask before helping" to Durkon asking too much before helping seemed obvious to me) so I was surprised that Durkula didn't. I'm not sure exactly how Durkon is planning on exploiting that, though.

With the last panel being a wider view of the Mechane, I'm excited to see what comes next. Usually, when it's used as a reminder of where something takes place, it's at the beginning of a page, not the end. So maybe we'll be moving to a different group next?

[Vinsfeld]

So uh, in the panel where Roy is stabbing through the Toad thingie, he's wearing the Belt of Giant's Strength. Dammit, now I'm one of those people... (Also, inb4 The Giant tells me he doesn't know what I'm talking about. )

LOL! Nice catch!

[137beth]

The frog fight reminded me of Durkon trying to interpret V's grunts when V was paralyzed from the ghasts in DCF.

....and so, cracks in Hel's plan begin to emerge!

[Essex]

It seems to me that Durkon learned four fairly important things here:

1). The vampire doesn't necessarily understand memories that it sees.

2). The vampire does not recognize general patterns of behavior from specific instances.

3). He can lie to the vampire.

4). He can annoy the vampire enough to make it stop paying attention to his memories.

[Itrogash]

1. Is that a Slaad? I don't think it's a Slaad - those have two eyes and more humanoid, right? Plus, while the art has upgraded a lot, we saw a red slaad here

well, Slaads are pure beings of Chaos, so they can look whatever damn pleases them. Or whatever doesn't please them. Chaos is fickle.

[Gusion]

This is getting boring enough I hope they stake Durkon just to put an end to this part of the story.

[A Tad Insane]

So Durkula can't evolve as a person? That's what I'm getting, considering he didn't pick up on how two events caused Durkon to change.

[gorocz]

I enjoy his middle name.

Being both a bit of a geological pun, and joking about the vampirism

(Allotropes being different expressions of the same element. Both Durkon and HPoH are priests of dwarven Gods expressed very differently) If it means something else, so much the better

Also, since Durkon is pretty much a living dwarven stereotype, you could say that he fits... all o' tropes. Am I right? ... ... ... No? Ok, I'll let myself out again.

[Emanick]

Heh. "Allotrope."

It's funny because he's a dwarf, and he follows all the tropes about dwarves, and...

All. O'. [The.] Trope[s].

I assume that was intentional, or this post will become even more embarrassing than it already is.

[deworde]

My theory is that Durkon's just realised that the HPoH doesn't get that memories aren't just useful information, they build your character.

Before, he'd been assuming that the HPoH had a defence against this, now he's hoping that absorbing the right memories can make the HPoH feel guilt or make some other mistake.

This is backed up by the super subtle thing I didn't originally notice, which implies the process has already begun.

[DaggerPen]

Also, since Durkon is pretty much a living dwarven stereotype, you could say that he fits... all o' tropes. Am I right? ... ... ... No? Ok, I'll let myself out again.

Heh. "Allotrope."

It's funny because he's a dwarf, and he follows all the tropes about dwarves, and...

All. O'. [The.] Trope[s].

I assume that was intentional, or this post will become even more embarrassing than it already is.

Three pages, and then two in a row. What are the chances, huh?

[Aquillion]

This looks good. What the heck does Durkon think is so good, though?

Durkon figured out that while he has to show his memories to Durkula in order to answer his questions, he can show them in a way that Durkula doesn't understand (or which Durkula misunderstands), and, presumably, use that to cause Durkula to act suspiciously.

[Ron Miel]

Heh. "Allotrope."

It's funny because he's a dwarf, and he follows all the tropes about dwarves, and...

All. O'. [The.] Trope[s].

I assume that was intentional, or this post will become even more embarrassing than it already is.

An allotrope is a chemical that can exist in two or more different forms, like carbon can be graphite or diamond.

I'm wondering if its a reference to his two forms, living and undead.

[Peelee]

....(as with all good fictional villains) the more I learn about him the more he is relatable....

Darth Vader. Greatest villain ever, not relatable (I'm talking OT here. You really don't want my rantings on the prequels). Samesies for pretty much any Disney villain. Or Bond villain. Or, to have all the subtlety of a sledgehammer, Xykon.

Good villains need not be relatable, is what I'm saying. And more often than not, they aren't.

[DaggerPen]

Darth Vader. Greatest villain ever, not relatable (I'm talking OT here. You really don't want my rantings on the prequels). Samesies for pretty much any Disney villain. Or Bond villain. Or, to have all the subtlety of a sledgehammer, Xykon.

Good villains need not be relatable, is what I'm saying. And more often than not, they aren't.

I'd say that villains need not be relatable, but more often than not, they should be human. You can have a Xykon or a Joker here or there to great effect, but to have most villains should have some redeeming trait or self-doubt or understandable motive or something, both to make them more compelling and to preserve the horror factor when you get a villain who's just a complete monster.

(Not that you're implying otherwise, it just got me thinking.)