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2014-09-27, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
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- Wisconsin, USA
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Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
I had no intention of ever returning to this site, given that I am essentially useless here, but I have nowhere else to turn for advice.
Note that I am not requesting any kind of legal advice or professional insight.
In fact, non-professional, casual, first-thing-that-springs-to-mind advice is exactly what I'm looking for.
I have written a mystery novel set in 16th Japan. For the sake of argument, let's say that this novel is written with a high level of literary skill, has been professionally edited, and features an exciting, interesting story that has human rather than superhuman characters, and a ridiculous level of historical accuracy.
Let's also say that I spent 10 months writing it and rewriting it insanely, which I did. In total, it is 79,950 words long.
It is also worth exactly $0 to me at the moment.
Now, I am in contact with a fellow in New Zealand who purchases unwanted stories and novels, including all author rights, and then publishes them under various pseudonyms for his own profit.
I'm not saying this to brag, but actually with a bitter, cynical, misery-fueled sneer. My book is the equal in quality of quite a few historical fiction/mystery book series, and probably better than the lower fringes of the market. The characters are well-drawn, the story is exciting and mysterious, there is no "sagging center," etc. etc. The people in it are neither caricatures nor "time-misplaced Americans."
So, one part of me wants to try to sell the book to this guy for a hefty sum of cash. Enough to buy a low-to-mid-priced new car, let's just say. That's not what I would use it for, but it sure would solve a lot of my immediate money problems very nicely.
The bitter, cynical side of me says to unload it for $1,000 to $2,000, and that it will never be worth more to me.
There is a lot of peripheral bitterness in that urge, also, given that some people whom I trusted promised to help me get the thing going, and of course did nothing. But are now urging me to keep the rights to the work, even though they wouldn't lift a finger to help me despite dozens of promises and constant yammering about how much they've got my back on the project, blah blah. So, I have something of the urge to flip them the finger and spit on my own work as well. It's kind of ugly, but at this point I don't really care, I'm sick enough of platitudes and B.S. to just say what I'm thinking, even when what I'm thinking is petty, vindictive, and extremely bitter.
That much money would be gone in a heartbeat, of course, but it would still be useful.
After talking to this guy, I'm about 90% sure he'd buy the book from me for $1K to $2K. As for the higher price, I'd realistically put my chances at 10% to 15%. I figure it's worth the bigger sum, but it's a long shot selling it. I can sell it for a song and pay a bill or two with a good deal of certainty, but of course, then I won't get very much for all that effort.
Also, there's a time limit on this. He's got other irons in the fire and I probably won't have time for more than 1 offer.
So, any thoughts from anyone?
Thanks in advance!Last edited by Bulldog Psion; 2014-09-27 at 04:18 PM. Reason: I r gud at speling
Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark
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2014-09-27, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Mountain View, CA
- Gender
Re: Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
First thing that springs to mind? If it's really that good and you're trying to break into the authorial market (as in, you want to write and sell more books, not just this one-off), do not under any circumstances give up your rights to it because the long term potential is ever so much higher, and taking a modest short term gain in exchange for losing a large long term potential gain is one of those things that get my instincts screaming "NO".
With that said, a more reasoned analysis says that my perspective on what that long term potential is may be skewed by being a consumer where the books I tend to encounter are the huge mega-successes, and your chances of hitting that level of success are very low. Further, people in general are notoriously bad at assessing the quality of their own work, so I'd really want a third party's opinion before accepting your assertion that your book is really good, and the accuracy of that assertion will also affect your chances of major success.
I'm assuming that you have tried and failed to get traditional publishers to take this thing. Given that, in your place I would seriously consider publishing it directly yourself online, perhaps as a web serial, try to get the word out about it, and if it builds a meaningful audience then start up a Patreon author account and encourage your readers to chip in while you write more.Last edited by Douglas; 2014-09-27 at 04:52 PM.
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2014-09-27, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- Wisconsin, USA
- Gender
Re: Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
Never bothered with the publishing houses. What's the point, unless you're friends with the owner?
As for getting the word out, I'd say that it sounds good theoretically, but I don't have the tens of thousands of dollars needed to advertise a self-published book.
Thanks for the input!Last edited by Bulldog Psion; 2014-09-27 at 05:01 PM.
Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark
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2014-09-27, 05:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Mountain View, CA
- Gender
Re: Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
Who said anything about advertising? Post about it on a few forums and let word of mouth do the work. A big advertising budget does get you a leg up and a fast start in this sort of thing, but the real powerhouse is people who like it recommending it to their friends - and those friends being able to check it out instantly for free. Maybe throw in a little money on Project Wonderful ads here or on similar sites, but the real make-or-break factor is generating friend-to-friend recommendations and publicly visible discussion.
Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
Avatar by Ceika.
Archives:
SpoilerSaberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)
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2014-09-27, 05:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
- Location
- Bristol
- Gender
Re: Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
I think it's worth taking a step back and considering what you're trying to accomplish. The reason the book is worth $0 to you at the moment is because you've made no effort to market it. Barring a miracle, a book will never be published professionally unless you actually pitch the book to publishers. I do understand defeatism, but in this scenario it's not helpful and it's skewing perceptions.
Take a hypothetical scenario where someone is considering selling themselves into slavery because they can't get a job. Then it turns out they haven't actually applied for any jobs; they've just been assuming they won't get one if they do. Things change from "incredibly sad" to "what the hell is he thinking?" If you think it's good enough to be published, you're not going to back yourself to succeed, even and perhaps especially in such a notoriously competitive field, you can't really expect anyone else to support you.
Selling the story to this contact of yours will put money in your pocket and literally nothing else. Not a very large amount of money either considering the amount of work you appear to have put into this, and considering he's not just buying first publication rights but complete IP ownership. To pay less for work under those circumstances is really just preying off the desperate. If you want to become a paid author, it's not going to help, if anything a backward step, since it's giving up ownership of your one completed, potentially saleable asset. Doing that while there are other avenues still to be explored - indeed, most conventional avenues, apparently - really would be cutting your nose off to spite your face.GITP Blood Bowl Manager Cup
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2014-09-27, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- The Steamboat
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Re: Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
Do you have any contacts at your current/former/future school's English department? A teacher you know, or the program director or something?
People in those departments usually know more about the publishing business and could help you figure out what you can or can't do, and what would be most convenient. It's always a good idea to talk to an expert.
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2014-09-27, 08:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- Wisconsin, USA
- Gender
Re: Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
Well, the point was just rendered moot. Thanks guys. take care
Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark
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2014-09-28, 12:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
- Location
- Satanic Sovereignty
- Gender
Re: Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
You took two thousand bucks for an 80-thousand word book, didn't you?
vape naesh
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2014-09-28, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Location
Re: Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
If I hadn't showed up too late, I would have recommended that you seek out an agent. Agents are essentially the connection between you and the publishing house - the 'guy who knows guys there' whose job is to find the works worth recommending and promoting to the publishing house. On the other hand, I decided to self-publish my own work.
As someone trying exactly that, word of mouth doesn't work very quickly, if at all. So far, reviews of my first novel have been uniformly positive, but even with plenty of 'Can't wait for the next book!' style reviews, it hasn't translated into any significant number of sales. Advertising campaigns - including Project Wonderful - often didn't produce any measurable result. Now, it's not unlikely that it's based on my own (lack of) ability to create ads and promote the work, but I honestly can't afford to worry about it.
I give away e-copies for free to anyone who wants them (even seed a torrent of it), but again, that hasn't netted me over $150 in sales over the last two years. So I just keep on plugging along - giving the work a tvtropes page, putting a link to a google drive copy of it in my signature, and continuing to be active in various communities.
My best results have come from sending submissions to people who post book reviews, but so many of those sites get so swamped with submissions in their first week of being open for reviews that if you don't find them in that first week, they're not accepting submissions anymore. Yes, there's a small amount of exaggeration there, but not a lot.
The gut feeling that I get from this situation is that my work is lower quality than I'm told by my readers, or that word of mouth is not as effective as you believe. It's also possible that there's more factors in play - perhaps my book is strange enough that it's hard for someone, even a fan, to 'sell' to someone else. But I really don't have the tools needed to really figure those things out.You may think of me as:
Struggling amateur author #3284728
Book one is on the Kindle now. It's a mix of hard science fiction and fantasy. How's that work? Surprisingly well.
I share the ebook version of it freely. Link to download it is at the top of that page.
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2014-09-28, 09:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
Oh, and one last thing for the OP - Whichever decision you made, I'm sure that eventually you'll wonder what would have happened if you made a different one. I wouldn't worry too much. If you had one bang-up, knock-em-dead story in you, I'm sure you have a second one, and usually your second book will be better than your first.
You may think of me as:
Struggling amateur author #3284728
Book one is on the Kindle now. It's a mix of hard science fiction and fantasy. How's that work? Surprisingly well.
I share the ebook version of it freely. Link to download it is at the top of that page.
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2014-09-28, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Gender
Re: Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?
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2014-09-28, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Bristol
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Re: Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
These things vary by commentator/critic/creative person, but something I've heard (and which I think I have in some cases observed) is that concept and creativity start at a high point and decline, and technical ability starts low and improves. Authors start out with stories that are all over the place but exciting, emotional, and thought-provoking, and end up writing books which are technically very accomplished but feel by the numbers. You see the same phenomenon in music too. Depending on the degree of decline/improvement and what levels they start at, the sweet spot can vary from creator to creator, though.
An exception is sometimes in film, since films are expensive and producers tend to retain tighter creative control over a director's early stuff. At some point, if they're successful enough, eventually they might be able to persuade the studio to take a punt on them, and that's when you see the film they've had in them all along. Of course, that's not always a good thing (Pain and Gain...)GITP Blood Bowl Manager Cup
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2014-09-30, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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- Dallas, TX
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2014-09-30, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2013
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Re: Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
Charlie Stross' essays about the publishing business might be helpful.
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2014-10-16, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Location
- Maryland
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Re: Seeking non-professional advice about a weird publication question
Self publishing is mostly a vanity affair. There are niches where it has merit, but for this? You want proper publishing. It's just hard to get the eyeballs and sales otherwise, regardless of quality. I would advise you to submit it to all the big publishing houses. It probably will not be selected for publishing from the slush pile, because the odds on this are always long for new authors. That's fine. It teaches you the knack of submitting, and what sorts of things the various publishers are after. Even brief feedback is useful, and handling rejection politely puts you above...many people.
Then, sell the crap out of it on the cheap. Some money is better than no money. In the event it DOES hit it big, well...you won't get rich, but one of those publishers might notice it, remember skimming the submission, and see dollar signs. If it doesn't...well...no great matter. At least you got some cash.
And then, you write another book. The first novel is almost never the best one. Gotta develop those skills.
Also, $2,000 for an 80,000 word book is still about 2.5 cents a word. Lots of old sci-fi authors that are now famous got paid rates like that, once upon a time. It sucks, but such is life. Nothing wrong with pragmatically taking the money available.
I realize you've already decided, but hopefully the advice will be of use in the future/to others/etc, and best of luck on your writing efforts!