Gunnerkrigg Court 5: Bismuth as Usual

[eschmenk]

And I'm fairly certain that both "nice place" and the Feng Shui comment are, in fact, both jokes.

That's totally a Dry British Wit Response.

Tom wrote on the page, "Yeah that was a joke, sorry." That's making come around to the idea that the Feng Shui comment was a joke. But it does work as a joke because you could somewhat imagine him doing something obsessive like that. It wouldn't be any worse than just spending a week of evenings in silence. I'm less sure about the "nice place" though. Donald might have said it just to break the silence since neither of them seemed to have anything to say at the moment.

[The_Snark]

Hmm.

I wonder if Mr. Donlan's plan is just to give Annie a chance to see her father unwinding.

[Mono Vertigo]

Okay, I didn't expect the smiling and joking and opening up, especially after the dinner.
But it's not really OOC either, frankly. (See: the flashback of young!Anthony interacting with young!Donald, compared with his interactions with literally everybody else.)
It does make it so much sadder that he's just a jerk toward his daughter, because he has the capacity to act like a decent human.
Still 50/50 on whether he's purposefully being a cold jerk toward Annie, or he's just that bad at social interactions and emotions.

[eschmenk]

Jeez Zimmy! Look what you did! And Donny is ruining a weeks worth of effort getting the Feng Shui right!

So, Kat will build a robotic hand for him if he promises to be nice to Annie?

[AdmiralCheez]

Jeez Zimmy! Look what you did! And Donny is ruining a weeks worth of effort getting the Feng Shui right!

Assuming he's not joking about the Feng Shui, I wouldn't be surprised if he wrote down exact measurements on where to place the chair should it be moved. That or he put tape on the floor to mark it. After all, a week's worth of fine tuning to find the perfect alignment shouldn't go to waste!

[BannedInSchool]

It does make it so much sadder that he's just a jerk toward his daughter, because he has the capacity to act like a decent human.
Still 50/50 on whether he's purposefully being a cold jerk toward Annie, or he's just that bad at social interactions and emotions.

He knows Annie's watching and that's why he's doing this to make her feel bad. Also, that's why he lost his hand; to beat her with it. Having lost a hand, that is, not beating her with the missing hand.

Or we can combine everything and say he is not emotive, doesn't know how to Feng Shui Annie, and is just parenting her as best as he knows which is as he was parented. Lord knows if I had kids and the best I could do was replicate my childhood then everyone would think it was a @#$%ing disaster.

[Spojaz]

Or we can combine everything and say he is not emotive, doesn't know how to Feng Shui Annie, and is just parenting her as best as he knows

Tony also can't forget that part of Annie is the monster that killed his wife and will one day kill his daughter. I don't know of anyone who would be able to stop that from coloring their feelings.

[Mono Vertigo]

doesn't know how to Feng Shui Annie

Sorry, I know what you mean, but the formulation makes me giggle.

Yeah, there's probably not that much mystery behind Anthony's behaviour anymore (between the Fire Elemental thing, the emotionally-challenged thing, etc). I still mostly just want to grab Anthony by the shirt and yell at him "WHAT YOU'RE DOING WITH DONALD NOW. THE THING WITH THE EMOTIONS AND THE UNDERSTANDING AND THE JOKING. DO IT WITH YOUR DAUGHTER. NOW.".
On the upside, Donald is still very much unimpressed by Tony so far, and that's great. They might be friends, but real friends should know when to call out on each other on their bullcrap and be critical sometimes, even if they're nice to each other individually.

[BannedInSchool]

Sorry, I know what you mean, but the formulation makes me giggle.

It was half a joke, a humorous way of making the point. Just imagine Anthony with an infant Antimony, trying to put her in a particular spot on the floor, facing a particular way. "Surma, she keeps moving." "Infants do that, dear." "Hmm."
And now I'm sad for everybody and in general that she died.

[Mono Vertigo]

It was half a joke, a humorous way of making the point. Just imagine Anthony with an infant Antimony, trying to put her in a particular spot on the floor, facing a particular way. "Surma, she keeps moving." "Infants do that, dear." "Hmm."

You're not helping with the giggles!
(Also, since infants are way beyond rationality, and can't be understood by Tony, that obviously means they're magical instead. Obviously.)

And now I'm sad for everybody and in general that she died.

Yeah. D:
That helped with the giggles.

[eschmenk]

Assuming he's not joking about the Feng Shui, I wouldn't be surprised if he wrote down exact measurements on where to place the chair should it be moved. That or he put tape on the floor to mark it. After all, a week's worth of fine tuning to find the perfect alignment shouldn't go to waste!

But then he'd have to Feng Shui the tape.

It was half a joke, a humorous way of making the point. Just imagine Anthony with an infant Antimony, trying to put her in a particular spot on the floor, facing a particular way. "Surma, she keeps moving." "Infants do that, dear." "Hmm."

That's a good analogy. I have no doubt that Anthony is trying to make Annie conform to the way she must be and that he thinks that he's doing it for her own good and that there just isn't any other decent option.

[Ellen]

I really don't want to forgive Tony even though I can feel myself starting to.

OK, there's a human being in there. He may even be a decent human being to a lot of people under the right circumstances. He may even be a redeemable human being.

But, a guy who beats up his wife isn't less of a wife-beater just because he's a decent pal to his friends. Yes, Tony's situation is more complicated than that. But, he's abused his daughter and hurt her badly. He's endangered her life.

Also, as a scientist, he's committed the cardinal sin of embracing his theory to the point that he ignores the evidence of the actual applications. He doesn't see the harm he's done and is doing his daughter.

Granted, I'm also looking at this as an adult who badly wants to interfere in an abusive relationship between a parent and child. I know that guys who come across as nice, decent people in court have destroyed their children. I know that people who may really be nice, wonderful people to certain people in certain circumstances have been toxic and lethal as parents.

I am easing up enough to say that, while Tony should not have any authority over Antimony in a guardianship sense, if he's willing to work at being a decent father, supervised contact with the eventual possibility of it becoming unsupervised is allowable.

Any experiments he suggests on Antimony get vetted by an appointed guardian and, if judged to be OK to try, will be explained to Antimony, who retains rights to input and acceptance/rejection appropriate to her age--That's a pretty high level of acceptance/rejection since she's in her teens and her condition is not currently life-threatening and probably won't be till she's a legal adult.

Her dad does not get to sit in on these conversations. He does not get to do anything that would be considered emotionally pressuring her. He does not even get to know if it was the guardian or Antimony herself who rejected the idea.

Any suggested treatment will be viewed with the knowledge that this is a man who has already come close to killing his daughter with unsupervised experimentation--and that he didn't set up any means of checking the results of his potentially lethal experiment.

In other words, if he wants to establish a relationship with Annie, he can do so under adult supervision. Anything else he wants to do, he can fill out a form, get in line, and try to convince the adults who know how dangerous he can be.

[lord_khaine]

Just tough luck that as far as the court care, Tony is her father, end of story

[Kornaki]

Just tough luck that as far as the court care, Tony is her father, end of story

We don't actually know this to be true. I mean, it's probably true I don't think the odds against it are so great.

[Emperordaniel]

We don't actually know this to be true. I mean, it's probably true I don't think the odds against it are so great.

We have word of Tom that Tony is Annie's biological father. Unless Tom was lying about it there, Tony is indeed Annie's dad (however little he deserves the title).

[Spacewolf]

You know I just realized Carver must have a point of contact at the court for him to have been called back to be a teacher. Considering we know he's not in contact with Mr. Dolan it seems likely it is the headmaster and I wonder if he was given faulty information from the Headmaster or at least coloured i.e. Annies most likely cheating off Kat, Disobeying Teachers, Hanging around the forest unattended, hanging around with a murderer with an obsession. We know the Headmaster has had issues with Annie in the past and is likely looking for a way to bring her back into line and this seems like a good way to do it.

[Kornaki]

We have word of Tom that Tony is Annie's biological father. Unless Tom was lying about it there, Tony is indeed Annie's dad (however little he deserves the title).

I meant that the court would take the opinion that biological fatherhood ended the question of custody

[Lizard Lord]

I meant that the court would take the opinion that biological fatherhood ended the question of custody

The court would take the opinion that custody would be whatever suited their interest.

[Ellen]

Just tough luck that as far as the court care, Tony is her father, end of story

Not necessarily, although it would likely be an uphill battle. Emotional abuse is generally a lot harder to make stick than physical abuse. It would be easier if Kate's family had been given temporary guardianship while Annie was at school. With Tony having abandoned his daughter for three years and with his treatment of her, I think they could make a case that being in Tony's case is not in Annie's best interests. But, it would be tricky. It's also much more likely that the Court has been acting as a guardian in the same way it does for any child attending there.

The main issue for challenging Tony's custody is that he's nearly killed Annie. His excuse, that he was conducting medical experiments to extend her life, doesn't work given his lack of safety protocols or monitoring.

Of course, trying to prove this and in what court (or Court), that is the question.

[Kornaki]

The main issue for challenging Tony's custody is that he's nearly killed Annie. His excuse, that he was conducting medical experiments to extend her life, doesn't work given his lack of safety protocols or monitoring.

Does anybody actually know he did this? Except Zimmy?

[eschmenk]

Does anybody actually know he did this? Except Zimmy?

Annie did, at least to some extent, but she was in denial about it. Kat knew that Zimmy helped Annie and that Zimmy blamed Annie's father, but thought that it was a dream, but Gamma took her headband as a hint that it wasn't. Also, Kat would have noticed that her dream and Annie's matched. Kat, though, would have had very little understanding of what happened. Reynard, Shadow and Robot were present before Zimmy arrived and were gone after she left, so it's impossible to know what, if anything, they know. Gamma, of course, knows that Zimmy was there. Donald knows that Anthony needed a scalpel for some reason and also that Anthony made a point of talking to Annie on the phone, which might have amounted to him verifying that Annie was present in GK.

BTW, update.

[Ibrinar]

Not necessarily, although it would likely be an uphill battle. Emotional abuse is generally a lot harder to make stick than physical abuse. It would be easier if Kate's family had been given temporary guardianship while Annie was at school. With Tony having abandoned his daughter for three years and with his treatment of her, I think they could make a case that being in Tony's case is not in Annie's best interests. But, it would be tricky. It's also much more likely that the Court has been acting as a guardian in the same way it does for any child attending there.

The main issue for challenging Tony's custody is that he's nearly killed Annie. His excuse, that he was conducting medical experiments to extend her life, doesn't work given his lack of safety protocols or monitoring.

Of course, trying to prove this and in what court (or Court), that is the question.

Yeah I don't think we even know whether the Court has a normal Justice system or is under the jurisdiction of one.

[Emperordaniel]

So Tony is confirmed to be/have been working for the Court. Iiiiinteresting.

[lord_khaine]

You know I just realized Carver must have a point of contact at the court for him to have been called back to be a teacher. Considering we know he's not in contact with Mr. Dolan it seems likely it is the headmaster and I wonder if he was given faulty information from the Headmaster or at least coloured i.e. Annies most likely cheating off Kat, Disobeying Teachers, Hanging around the forest unattended, hanging around with a murderer with an obsession. We know the Headmaster has had issues with Annie in the past and is likely looking for a way to bring her back into line and this seems like a good way to do it.

Ohh yeah thats a really good point.
Of course the problem is, the Headmaster would not even need to lie or color the information in any way, just giving it straight on as fact and Annie could easily be painted as a troublemaker that needed a firmer hand.

Yeah I don't think we even know whether the Court has a normal Justice system or is under the jurisdiction of one.

Considering both whats actually going on in the court, and that it were founded by people wishing to escape the regular world.

[AdmiralCheez]

I don't know why, but I'm suddenly more concerned that the Court has an "Omega Device" than I am about Tony's parenting skills.

[Chromascope3D]

I don't know why, but I'm suddenly more concerned that the Court has an "Omega Device" than I am about Tony's parenting skills.

A lot of people think it's a matter collapser, capable of destroying the universe in 13 seconds; however I believe the device to be a matter re-arranger, allowing someone to jump 13 seconds into the past.

[BannedInSchool]

I don't know why, but I'm suddenly more concerned that the Court has an "Omega Device" than I am about Tony's parenting skills.

I'm wondering if he's actually interfering a bit with the Court's plan to use Annie to make everyone die in a fire.

[Emperordaniel]

Perhaps the Omega Device is the culmination of the Court's (stated-by-Coyote) intention to become god(s)?

[Hiro Protagonest]

I think they want to summon Primal Groudon.

[Alent]

A lot of people think it's a matter collapser, capable of destroying the universe in 13 seconds; however I believe the device to be a matter re-arranger, allowing someone to jump 13 seconds into the past.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who's mind flashed to that scene.