Swashbuckler Help

[genericwit]

So, I'm building a swashbuckler for a Kingmaker-esque campaign. I'm basically just torn between going higher Cha or higher Dex. My stats are, as rolled: 17 14 13 12 12 11. We used 2d6 + 6, so all in all I'm not too unhappy with what I got. I've put them as: Str 12 Dex 17 Con 13 Int 11 Wis 12 Cha 14. I'm thinking about swapping str and int, as I intend to pick up Dervish Dance at level 3, but I don't wanna just be a mound of suck for the whole of level 2 (where we're starting). However, I'm struggling more with putting my +2 into Dex or Cha. Cha will give me a whole lot of options in combat, like more panache and better use of charmed life, and provide more roleplaying skill utility, although we do already have some pretty amazing faces. Dex, on the other hand, is super crucial for a Swashbuckler.

Any thoughts? Musings? Comments? All are appreciated!

[avr]

The realm stuff later on rewards having one ability as high as possible more than having two reasonably good abilities. I'd push dex to 19.

Why a swashbuckler though? They're a fairly weak class, they're poorly suited conceptually for expeditions out into the trackless wilderness (don't fool yourself, civilisation is not where most of the action happens) and you say there's no shortage of face characters in the group already.

[genericwit]

Well, I don't necessarily think it's terribly weak. It has a lot of options for boosting damage and hit, good ways to boost AC, saves are a tad rough (but can be boosted), and just has a lot of fun tricks in general. Plus, I just really like the concept of it. I'm picking up the class for role playing reasons, as well.

[Ellowryn]

See if you DM would allow you to take Deadly Agility from PoW, and then put everything you have into Dex. Also swap Str and Int cause now Str is a dump stat and more skill points are always useful. Grab a headband of charisma when you can to boost your Panche otherwise just horde your points to fuel your as-long-as-you-have-panche stuff only using the reposte if you know you are going to drop from a big attack.

[genericwit]

See if you DM would allow you to take Deadly Agility from PoW, and then put everything you have into Dex. Also swap Str and Int cause now Str is a dump stat and more skill points are always useful. Grab a headband of charisma when you can to boost your Panche otherwise just horde your points to fuel your as-long-as-you-have-panche stuff only using the reposte if you know you are going to drop from a big attack.

If I can't take Deadly Agility (which I agree would be way better, and let me use dex to damage for thrown weapons as well), I'm probably going to go with Dervish Dance (which fits my character concept better, anyway).

[Kudaku]

I'd switch con and str actually. 12 and 13 con are basically identical, while str 13 allows you to qualify for some extra feat options like power attack.

[ghanjrho]

If I can't take Deadly Agility (which I agree would be way better, and let me use dex to damage for thrown weapons as well), I'm probably going to go with Dervish Dance (which fits my character concept better, anyway).

False, actually. Deadly Agility has been specifically clarified not to work with thrown weapons.

[genericwit]

Oh good to know about the thrown weapon thing! And I'm not gonna need power attack, Piranha Strike exists.

[Ellowryn]

Do note that if you want to go with Dervish Dance then you will need both Slashing Grace and its crappy requirement feat Weapon Focus, otherwise you will not gain the benefit of your Swashbuckler class features (Piercing weapons only).

[Greenish]

Oh good to know about the thrown weapon thing! And I'm not gonna need power attack, Piranha Strike exists.

Piranha Strike only works with light weapons, not with scimitar.

[ghanjrho]

Oh good to know about the thrown weapon thing! And I'm not gonna need power attack, Piranha Strike exists.

You're still going to need Power Attack; Pirahna Strike only applies to light weapons. RAW, it doesn't even apply to rapiers.

For some build ideas:

A little Martial Training or a Warlord dip goes quite well with the swash, especially if you focus on Scarlet Throne (you want Scarlet Einhander. Even if you only get it to IL 12, that's a +4 shield bonus and +2d6 damage on a hit). If you go Warlord for three levels, you pick up constant +CHA to Will, while the Unbreakable Gambit gives +CHA to Fort or Will for an immediate.

Alternatively, there's the old Crane Wing. Dip 2 levels of Master of Many Styles, make sure your GM allows the old version, and go to town.

EDIT: agh, stalker'd.

[TheIronGolem]

Do note that if you want to go with Dervish Dance then you will need both Slashing Grace and its crappy requirement feat Weapon Focus, otherwise you will not gain the benefit of your Swashbuckler class features (Piercing weapons only).

No, Dervish Dance lets you count a scimitar as piercing. It's basically Slashing Grace plus Deadly Agility, but only for scimitars.

[Ellowryn]

No, Dervish Dance lets you count a scimitar as piercing. It's basically Slashing Grace plus Deadly Agility, but only for scimitars.

Ah, gotcha, missed that part in the description. Deadly agility is still better if you are starting pre-3rd level.

[Greenish]

No, Dervish Dance lets you count a scimitar as piercing. It's basically Slashing Grace plus Deadly Agility, but only for scimitars.

Or to be more exact, Dervish Dance is like Slashing Grace that also allows you to finesse your weapon, but only works for scimitars and doesn't allow TWF or shields.

[squiggit]

No, Dervish Dance lets you count a scimitar as piercing. It's basically Slashing Grace plus Deadly Agility, but only for scimitars.

Not plus anything. Slashing Grace and Dervish Dance are basically the same thing.

The only question is just whether 2 ranks in perform and never being able to TWF or use a weapon that isn't a scimitar is better or worse than weapon focus for your build.

[genericwit]

Not plus anything. Slashing Grace and Dervish Dance are basically the same thing.

The only question is just whether 2 ranks in perform and never being able to TWF or use a weapon that isn't a scimitar is better or worse than weapon focus for your build.

Well, I have plenty of skill points, and all of the swashbuckler goodies require not using TWF (like class level to damage, for instance).

[aethel27]

Definetely dex, for more panache use the extra panache feat, or plumes of panache. You want your dex as high as possible and I second the recomendation for 13 str, also swashbuckler lets yopu use a buckler wich is use ful due to how cheap shield enhancements are. Upiing your ac with it can be pretty imortant at lower levels.

[Nerdtothe3rd]

Focus on Dex and Int, go Inspired Blade which gives you Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus for free. Take Deadly Agility if you really want Dex to Damage or see if you can just use the Fencer's Grace they will be publishing soon (Slashing Grace for Rapiers)

Cha and Int to Panache points is very nice giving you the ability to keep both moderate and still have good Panache, and skill points. throwing most of your focus into Dex.

Of course this marries you into a Rapier build.