Results 31 to 60 of 71
Thread: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
-
2014-09-29, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
It's not about the characters engaging in "dungeon-crawling murder-fests", it's about such activities being the beginning and end of the character. As in: no family, no goals (beside loot, murder, and sometimes power for their own sake), no life, no interests, no hobbies or even preferences beside those which improve game-statistics, will not even consider any activity perceived to be detrimental to murdering (drinking the cheapest ale possible is a common exception to justify these characters hanging around bars for quests). The murderhobo is simply an angry statblock, given the bare minimum of fluff or backstory which his player can get away with.
Last edited by Slipperychicken; 2014-09-29 at 08:22 PM.
-
2014-09-29, 08:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
I know, and I think your definition, or something very like it, is more appropriate. As long as your character has a well-considered reason to put themselves through hell the way they do, and is sufficiently believable and complex, I don't think they can reasonably be called a murderhobo. Sartharina, on the other hand, seems to disagree, and I'm curious about how her definition influences her gaming.
-
2014-09-29, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- Vancouver, Canada
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
My entire party are murderhobos. The party started off as one CG character, (myself) one TN, one LG, and one CN. We started off traveling through a forest to get to a town. We encountered a huge tree with gnomes living in it. The rest of the party decided asked if they had any money. When the gnomes said that all they had were "Magic Mushrooms" the party brutally murdered the entire village and got high on mushrooms.
Meanwhile my character ran off into the forest screaming.
-
2014-09-29, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2014
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
Murderhobo games. There are actually a few systems that allow Not Resorting To Violence be plausible (FATE comes to mind, and it's possible to get away with it in Star Wars if you stick to the feel of the movies. Ironically, 4e's Skill Challenges allow players to not be murderhobos, but that ignores 90% of the system) - but really, not being a Murderhobo tends to be boring in most game systems. But that doesn't make it any less absurd.
We're arguing two different definitions of Murderhobo.
-
2014-09-29, 08:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Protecting my Horde (yes, I mean that kind)
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
-
2014-09-29, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
- Location
- 61.2° N, 149.9° W
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
Classic, absolutely classic. I still like my guys though, the entire reason they weren't going to stop the demonic invasion and were going to kill the emperor instead was because they didn't like the tax laws. Stopping the world from being overrun by demons was less important than destroying a government that asked them to pay taxes.
In the game I'm currently playing in my character is the only one with any backstory (this is normal for this group), and we're staying the night in a dwarven fortress that controls one of the access points between the safe and civilized lands to the west and the monster/undead infested lands to the east. Anyways some drow showed up, we offed the ones that attacked our sleeping chambers and we can hear the rest of the fort fighting. Everyone else wants to either loot and leave, or loot and go back to sleep. I'm apparently the only person who thinks that having drow control one of the passes between cities full of commoners and hordes of city wrecking monsters might be a bad thing. And two of the other characters are elves.
I'm simply going to kill a couple of drow, grab something shiney, return to the party and say "Hey, these guys have loot!" Which is the only thing that will motivate them to actually keep all the NPCs from getting slaughtered. Luckily none of them are nasty enough (except the guy playing the sorcerer, and he's not competent enough) to kill everything, animate the bodies, and extort the local barony with the threat of opening the pass to spawning undead.
My party is full of murder hobos.
-
2014-09-29, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
Objection! Murderhobos are tax-exempt! By definition - they have no home residence, no citizenship, and no lawful income. They have no fixed assets to be seized other than the gear they carry around, most of which is extremely pointy and hazardous to the health of if you touch my sword one more time you will pull back a stump, do you hear me? They are the most tax-exempt beings imaginable. Even the Undead are more subject to taxation than they are. (And seriously, once you're up and walking around again, you're looking at centuries of back taxes owed... I hope you've got a job lined up, because you're going to need some serious income to pay that off.)
There are two primary reasons to become an adventurer:- See more wealth than most people see in ten lifetimes.
- Pay no taxes on it.
My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
-
2014-09-29, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Location
- United States
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
There's room for that, but I don't think the text supports it very well. There's multiple instances in the story in which it glorifies the compact between a man and his thane: receiving gifts in exchange for pledging loyalty and defending your thane. The poem repeatedly emphasizes this as a good thing with both Beowulf and Hrothgar, and Wiglaf's chastising of his comrades for failing in their duty elevates him in the reader's eyes, and when he backs up his speech with action he attains the status of hero.
There's room to read him as vainglorious and fame-hungry to the detriment of his people, but that's more of a modern reading. Seeking fame was largely celebrated, as was the embracing of your wyrd. Both cultural conceits continued on despite the Christianizing of the Island, and this story reflects this. I think a stronger case can be made for Beowulf's attacking the culture of vengeance and blood-debt that plagued Anglo-Saxon society.Last edited by EvilAnagram; 2014-09-29 at 10:50 PM.
5e Bard's Guide
5e Fighter's Guide
5e Paladin's Guide
5e Ranger's Guide
5e Sorcerer's Guide
5e Warlock's Guide
Magic Items
Avatar by Honest Tiefling
-
2014-09-29, 11:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- The land of corn
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
True. I think you could make a good case for Wiglaf's improved esteem at the end being directly bound up in the fact that he was holding up his end of the thane-lord bargain, for the good of his kin and the kingdom, though. One of my friends has an article she's revising on this exact question and we've had some conversations - it's definitely a nontraditional and iconoclastic reading of the poem. That's for sure.
-
2014-09-29, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)
-
2014-09-30, 02:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
Luckily, my current group are very much not murderhobos. They pay taxes whenever they are asked (there is a toll on the city gates that they keep going in and out of - to pay for the upkeep of the city walls).
In my previous group, consisting of a paladin, cleric (of the paladin goddess), and alchemist - there was open combat between the group and a squad of royal guardsmen who tried to tax the group using the highway. Of course, we suspected they were being shady - but we only thought that because they were trying to charge us a toll.
-
2014-09-30, 04:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
There is a subtle distinction between murderhoboes and more directed adventurers, as explained here by Belkar.
Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
Protip: DnD is an incredibly social game played by some of the most socially inept people on the planet - Lev
I read this somewhere and I stick to it: "I would rather play a bad system with my friends than a great system with nobody". - Trevlac
-
2014-09-30, 06:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2014
- Location
- Taiwan
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
I did not realize the term "murderhobo" had such rich and complex nuances.
-
2014-09-30, 08:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
Almost as rich as the smell...
It's a style of play, with emphasis on killing and looting and little connection to a larger storyline. You don't need deep motivations when you're playing Small Armies: Post-Tolkien edition. This can be light and fun (Beer & Pretzels) or Serious Business (murderhobo style is heavy-optimization friendly). You can describe it as video-gamey, but at the heart the hobby origins starts with battle, so no blaming it all on GTA or e-cigarettes whatever it is that people blame everything on these days.
It's looking at it in the context of a living, breathing world and realizing "holy crap, these guys are nuts! And smell!" that brings the negative aspects.
I was originally going to suggest that the MH party face would likely invest in some sort of Masterwork Soap for that +2 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy, but then I remembered that "party face" isn't a typical murderhobo focus. (If you're the party face because you have the least negative social modifier... you might be a murderhobo).
-
2014-09-30, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2014
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
It's a dominant style of play, even in groups that think otherwise. Any game that has the heroes consistently killing absurdly large numbers of people (Disproportionate to their group size) outside of Military Action, and having the party spend most of its time wandering the world with little connection to any home they might have (Many don't have a home at all) is Murderhobo style of play.
Also - you can blame GTA and most video games on D&D, not the other way around.
-
2014-09-30, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Location
- Laughing with the sinners
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
It's apples and oranges to look at adventurers like you look at normal people. Most of the human race manages to not murder anybody in the course of their careers.
But this is a game. Nobody wants to play Lawyers and Ledgers. People want to play at violence because we find fake violence fun. Why are there no First Person Hugger games? We want to blast aliens and terrorists and Nazis and Orcs and Zombies.
So, fantasy RPGs just build a world of fluff around a war game. That's why the concept of the adventuring party kicking in doors and slaying monsters and looting treasure hordes is central to the game.
You can play a more story based, political game where the party has to protect the city, or negotiate a peace treaty or diffuse tensions and avert a war. That's great if the players and DM want that. But that's the deviant playstyle, not the murderous dungeon crawl.
-
2014-09-30, 10:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2014
- Location
- Taiwan
- Gender
-
2014-09-30, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
-
2014-09-30, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2014
- Gender
-
2014-09-30, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
- Location
- 61.2° N, 149.9° W
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
-
2014-09-30, 11:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
Technically, having the highest positive value is also the "least negative" one.
-
2014-09-30, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
D&D Basic sets generally gave the party a home base to operate out of (Freedale, back in 2e, was an example). It came across as less "hobos" and more "town's troubleshooters" - the local wizard asks the party to investigate a Problem (ogre chieftain hunting for an Orb of Dragonkind) and that's how the game starts.
Same generally applies as the party continues to level up - NPCs give them "Quests" to deal with some problematic issue, usually involving aggressive types threatening the NPCs and their town or towns.
"Pure murderhoboing" generally wouldn't involve these kinds of justifications.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
-
2014-09-30, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Location
- Somewhere in Midgard
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
Given the term here, I have altered it just a bit for the group im in, Domesticated Murderhobos. We still wander and kill for xp and the loot, but we do actually use our abilities to avoid a fight once in a while or get our way truly diplomatically. That and attempting to use the Stronghold Builders Guide to make a big 'ol castle.
I use 'murderhobo' as a joke, as opposed to a form of derision, and the Domesticated bit if only because we're building our own home.My opinion and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee at the 7/11, most others want the dollar too :P
Steam ID: blacklight101
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
Where did you start yours?
At an observation deck at Port Wander, seeing his ship for the first time and being introduced to the bridge crew/away team that he hired before arriving.
-
2014-09-30, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
A hobo is somebody with no fixed home, who is not trying to build a new one.
Oddysseus had a home, and was focused entirely on getting there.
Beowulf had a home in Götaland, and came to Denmark just long enough to save the Dames from Grendel and his mother.
Frodo, Sam, Pippin and Merry had a home in the Shire; Legolas in Mirkwood, Gimli under the Mountain, Aragorn in Rivendell, and Boromir in Minas Tirith. Gandalf was, of course, an angel.
Vikings were raiders who took the stuff home.
The conquistadors were trying to build a new home in New Spain. (The word comes from conquest).
Ronin are in fact hobos, but they are looking for a home and a master.
In original D&D, upper-level characters were expected to clear some land, build a fortress, and settle down. D&D characters whose goal isn't to save the country from the raiding orcs, or rescue the princes from the dragon and eventually settle down, but to just find creatures, kill them, and take their stuff are called murderhobos.
I try to let all my characters have some kind of home, and some hopes of retiring to it.
Gustav is trying to defend his northern forests from the frost giants.
Pteppic is trying to prove worthy to inherit the Egyptian throne.
Ornrandir was trying to provide a place for homeless outcasts (like he once was) to settle down and prosper.
Gwydion was a bard. He actually wanted to wander. But the goal was to go from castle to castle earning fame; the monsters were in the way.
Because the D&D characters who are not murderhobos have backgrounds and goals beyond killing people and taking their stuff, and the D&D characters who are murderhobos do not.
For instance, my Ranger has a masterwork axe. This isn't his weapon, it's a tool. I do not expect the fact that it's masterwork to ever effect the game, but the two people I've known who actually lived alone in the woods were both proud of the quality of their axe, so it seemed in character. He also has a skill point in playing the harp, just because people who live alone often make music.
Murderhobo characters have no characteristics that aren't specifically aimed at killing folks and taking their stuff.Last edited by Jay R; 2014-09-30 at 05:13 PM.
-
2014-09-30, 05:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
Are you sure people are sitting around gaming tables complaining about players not having homes in their backstories?
It always amazes me how often people on forums would rather accuse you of misreading their posts with malice than re-explain their ideas with clarity.
-
2014-09-30, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
-
2014-09-30, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
- Location
- 61.2° N, 149.9° W
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
I don't. It's what I do sometimes.
Point of data: In my current d&d 3.5 game the druid with the 7 charisma is the party face and the only character with any backstory. This is because he's the only one concerned with more than the basic kill-loot-repeat and the only one who does not talk to the NPCs like they were nameless mmo quest mobs.
Now that 7 charisma means that the druid has elven tourett's syndrome and constantly insults everyone. But apparently that's better than the rest of the party who won't even remember the names of anyone and only ask for quests or buying and selling magic items.
-
2014-09-30, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Gender
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
Well this is my take. Murder; Adventurers kill enough sentient and non-sentient beings that they would be considered more like natural disasters than serial killers. In one story, my party and I just wanted to fast forward time a week so my dog could have some barding to wear. The DM didn't allow it due to plot reasons and in that one weeks time we killed 30 people. They were cultists of an evil god bent on controlling the world, but still, 30 people in a week. We counted. A normal person would be traumatized by this, have some PTSD, but in DnD the LG paladin wouldn't bat an eye at the number of people they killed.
Hobo: Now PF made a good rule that you can spent X amount of gold a month to have a reasonable level of life. 10 gold is average, 100g is really good, and 1000 gold has you living in castles and mansion on a daily basis. Here is the thing though, why spend that (outside of purely RP reasons) when most high level adventures sleep in Rope Tricks (or Magnificent Mansions) or are off in the wilderness somewhere far from civilization? Also, a lot of times the DM's story doesn't allow for staying in one place for any significant amount of time. The party is hoping from city to city, dungeon to dungeon, trying to prevent some world ending disaster. It is hard to get connected to NPC#54 in city #9 when the party knows they will only be there for a few game sessions tops.
-
2014-09-30, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Re: Why is being a murderhobo bad?
I shudder to think what sort of PTSD your average D&D character would have by level 5, let alone 20.
I think this might be getting to the meat of the matter - a Real Roleplayer(tm) tries to make things more complicated for their character, with social entaglements and hobbies and such. A Murderhobo tries to simplify it, so there's nothing to get in the way of the killing and taking of stuff.Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
Protip: DnD is an incredibly social game played by some of the most socially inept people on the planet - Lev
I read this somewhere and I stick to it: "I would rather play a bad system with my friends than a great system with nobody". - Trevlac
-
2014-09-30, 09:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Xin-Shalast
- Gender