SWSE Jedi Optimization- Countermaster Duelist

[Mikal]

Hi all! Have a chance to play in a SWSE game again, and looking to try a Jedi Lightsaber master.
I'm looking at one who is a defensive master, while also forcing the enemy to pay attention to him.
As such, I'm looking to maximize the benefits of AoOs while still allowing respectable damage on my turns.
Please critique and provide any ideas on this which you think may be best.
Stats are rolled, which is why they're so good.

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Race: Human
Stats:
10 Str
14 Con
18 Dex
13 Int
13 Wis
18 Cha

(Will Raise Int and Wis at level 4. Other level ups are open)

Class:
Jedi 3/Scout 1/Jedi 4/Soldier 1/Jedi Knight 3/Melee Duelist 7/?? 1 (Jedi Master likely)

Feats:
Level 1- Skill Focus: Use the Force
Human- Weapon Finesse
Jedi 2- Weapon Focus: Lightsaber
Level 3- Rapid Strike
Jedi 4- Acrobatic Strike
Level 6- Force Training
Jedi 6- Combat Reflexes
Level 9- Melee Defense (might take at level 6)
Level 12- Double Attack
Level 15- Force Training or Triple Crit
Level 18- Force Training

Trained Skills: UtF, Init, Acrobatics, Perception, (Additional Skill at Level 4 either Knowledge, Mechanics, or Pilot)

Talents:
Jedi: Block, Deflect, Mobile Combatant (to *mark* a target who tries to get away and do additional attacks), Elusive Target
Scout: Evasion
Soldier: Counterpunch (AoO against anyone attacking me who is adjacent when fighting defensively)
Jedi Knight: Shii-Cho, Soresu
Melee Duelist: Master of Elegance (for damage), Advantageous Strike (extra attack in an AoO), Single
Weapon Flourish I (free movement to help with mobile combatant), Single Weapon Flourish II (Full attack as standard action)

Force Powers:
Circle of Shelter (Get for Soresu to gain its bonus to block/deflect)
Disarming Slash (use as part of attack, or as part of defense once Shii-Cho is learned)
Deflecting Slash (Use before Deflect. If successful, free attack+no damage. Plus once I get soresu redirect the attack if
ranged. If fail, use standard deflect)
Battlestrike
Surge
Move Object (maybe)

Force Techniques:
TbD

Combat Tricks:
General Strategy: Stay close. Always stay close. I'm deadly in melee, and very hard to hit in melee thanks to elusive

target. Use Mobile Combatant to stick to a target and always use AoOs whenever possible.

Early- Evasion+Deflect = no damage on auto fire attacks that hit me if successful deflect
Acrobatic/Tumble for extra attack bonus. Use for Melee Defense and Rapid Strike. Use Mobile Combatant to keep with a melee
target and AoO them

Middle=
Combat Reflexes+Counterpunch= Many AoOs. Stay in the middle of the enemies whenever possible

Late=
Full attacks as standard actions, do free moves and double moves whenever possible, reroll acrobatics, bonus to AoOs

[Mikal]

Sorry! Thought I put this in the other game systems thread. Please move, any friendly mods.

[LibraryOgre]

Sorry! Thought I put this in the other game systems thread. Please move, any friendly mods.

The Mod Wonder: Sorry, only unfriendly mods to move things. Graar.

[Mikal]

Appreciated... I think!

[Waar]

That's a nice unconvetional build, but I have some consern that you are trying to do more things at the same time than possible.

1: You lack the required feats to qualify for melee duelist.
2: You don't have a way to force opponents to attack you, so if you fight defensively you waste your action by not attacking (and no you do not get to make an attack by taking the fight defensively action).
3: You don't have any way to reduce multiple attack penalties, so why did you pick triple attack? (3 attacks at -10 are rarely better than 2 at -5).

[Mikal]

That's a nice unconvetional build, but I have some consern that you are trying to do more things at the same time than possible.

1: You lack the required feats to qualify for melee duelist.
2: You don't have a way to force opponents to attack you, so if you fight defensively you waste your action by not attacking (and no you do not get to make an attack by taking the fight defensively action).
3: You don't have any way to reduce multiple attack penalties, so why did you pick triple attack? (3 attacks at -10 are rarely better than 2 at -5).

1) Whoops! I forgot to add Melee Defense to it! Swap the Level 9 Force Training for Melee Defense, I'll edit it into the build.
2) I don't have to force opponents to attack me. With my movement options I force *myself* into their areas and keep them adjacent. I use melee defense to fight defensively, and then AoO with counterpunch and mobile combatant, which allows me to stay in their range. I can also use a dual phase lightsaber to gain reach. And with Melee Defense I can attack normally, and set up Counterpunch, which was the original intention
3) A good point. I can always drop it for the Force Training I dropped for Melee Defense, or I can pick up triple crit. Completely forgot about the multi attack. Thoughts?

Alternatively I can drop several levels of Melee duelist and pick it up solely for Single Flourish I (increased mobility) and Advantageous Strike, and pick up two levels of Jedi Knight for Ataru for the Dex to damage, giving me two levels in something else for fun and profit. I'd drop double strike in general and try to get something to take advantage of AoOing.

[Mando Knight]

For Force techniques, consider Improved Kinetic Combat. It'd eat up a swift action every round, but you're able to then erect a field of lightsabers to lock down enemy movement. Don't use it directly to attack, but instead as controllable terrain.

[Mikal]

For Force techniques, consider Improved Kinetic Combat. It'd eat up a swift action every round, but you're able to then erect a field of lightsabers to lock down enemy movement. Don't use it directly to attack, but instead as controllable terrain.

I'm not looking to make a Kreia/Force Wizard type. The character should be able to do everything he does without resorting to what he would see as "show off power"

Otherwise mechanically it'd work wonderfully.

[Mando Knight]

As a Force Wizard power, it's actually pretty bad: it doesn't get benefits from almost anything, and even with Improved Kinetic Combat you can only make one attack per turn. It's more useful for field control, since each lightsaber can be used to erect a 3x3 area to threaten extra attacks of opportunity, including areas such that the enemy can't use the Withdraw action to escape from you, since the first square of movement has to take the escapee out of your threatened area.

[Jigawatts]

We recently finished a Saga campaign where my character was a Jedi lightsaber specialist. I ended up going Scoundrel 1/Jedi 7/Jedi Knight 5/Jedi Master 5. I used Ataru, Juyo, and Vaapad, took Triple Crit, and had Fortunes Favor as my Scoundrel talent. I also regularly used the Saber Swarm, Tempered Aggression, and Vornskrs Ferocity lightsaber form powers from Jedi Academy Training Manual.

Best thing about it was I used a single saber two-handed and never had the Double/Triple Attack feats, so I didn't require on standing still and full attacking to be effective. Even opponents that tried to focus on mobility or hit and run tactics, I would just move up to them (using Acrobatics and/or Surge if need be) and unleash a Saber Swarm, Tempered Aggression, or just a natural crit and get the extra action via Fortunes Favor, regularly getting 3+ attacks per round with a single standard action at little-to-no negatives to my attack rolls. And if my force powers ever started to run low I would just find clever ways to use Serenity during combat.

I had a lot of negating abilities too, Block, Deflect, Rebuke, Negate Energy, Enlighten, Equilibrium, combined with Skill Focus (Use the Force). I even took some Force Stuns just to make him more versatile, and took Many Shades of the Force (Force Lightning) towards the end just for kicks. Basically he was a crit master, hit like a mack truck, and nearly impossible to damage. I essentially played him like a Chaotic Good Jedi given the roleplaying background from his Scoundrel level and his Corellian nature, it was a blast.

I would recommend this build to others, it was quite effective.

[emeraldstreak]

I can dig up 2-3 AoO builds used for BBEGs in my Mandalorian campaign (note that Vaapad was not available due to timeline).

The first one is similar to yours in Counterpunch+boosts for AoOs. However, it differs in dropping Block/Deflect and focusing on Reflex Defense, which allows it to use the Halt+Devastating Attack combo.

(J=Jedi, S=Soldier, JK=Jedi Knight, MD=Melee Duelist, H=feat from lvl, H+=human bonus feat, B=class bonus feat)

J1 Lightsaber Defense H1 Force Training H+ SkillFocus:UseTheForce
J2 B Combat Reflexes
J3 Defensive Acuity H3 Rapid Strike
J4 B Weapon Focus (Lightsaber)
S1 Counterpunch
S2 H6 Melee Defense B Trip
S3 Devastating Attack (Lightsaber)
S4 B Halt
JK 1 Makashi H9 Force Training
MD 1 Advantageous Strike

(preffered equipment: Dueling +5 dmg Lightsaber that reroll 1s)

[emeraldstreak]

This one was more on the Dark Side and is more balanced in terms of duelist/force wizard. He's running several sub-builds:

Halt is again present for AoOs that activate from powers (Aversion plays a role). Equilibrium, Channel Vitality, Mercenary's Grit, and Bando Gora Surge cycle for force points, stats, hit points. Psychic Citadel + Fight Through Pain make for high Will/Fort saves.

(FA=Force Adept, FD=Force Disciple)

J1 Aversion H1 Force Training H+ SF:UtF
J2 B Combat Reflexes
J3 Equilibrium H3 Force Training
J4 B Weapon Focus (L)
J5 Bando Gora Surge
S1 Mercenary's Grit H6 Force Training
S2 B Trip
JK 1 Force Fortification
FA 1 Perfect Telepathy H9 Halt
FA 2 take 10 rebuke
FA 3 Channel Vitality
FA 4 improved dark rage H12 Fight Trough Pain
FD 1 Psychic Citadel
FD 2
FD 3 Inquisition H15 Force Training
FD 4
FD 5 Empower Weapon

(preffered weapon: great lightsaber with +2 equipment bonus on attacks and rerolls on 1s)

Finally, I've marked Mystical Link and Tactical Advantage as "of interest" but it hadn't make the cut.


PS. I also had a lvl 20 lightsaber combat-focused Jedi Master but it seems I've lost the build...