The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics

[Theodoxus]

I like that you've marked halflings decently. A lot of guides, if their racial attribute mods don't match perfectly to the class, downrate them. But I've found Lucky to be a huge boon. To the point that if I know a DM is using critical fumbles, I only play halflings in their games.

A +1 difference in Wisdom isn't really that big a deal in the whole scheme of things (and if ghostwise are allowed, that disappears). But rolling two 1's in a row has only happened once so far in a game I've been a part of... that's huge.

[jaappleton]

I like that you've marked halflings decently. A lot of guides, if their racial attribute mods don't match perfectly to the class, downrate them. But I've found Lucky to be a huge boon. To the point that if I know a DM is using critical fumbles, I only play halflings in their games.

A +1 difference in Wisdom isn't really that big a deal in the whole scheme of things (and if ghostwise are allowed, that disappears). But rolling two 1's in a row has only happened once so far in a game I've been a part of... that's huge.

My biggest knock on Halflings is the lack of Darkvision. But an Uncommon magic item fixes that.

Immunity to 1s can never be understated enough. I think that makes them rated black (Not a bad choice, not the greatest) for almost any class and archetype.

[Willie the Duck]

I think a lot of people think not being able to start with a primary stat at 16 at 1st level in point buy is a big deal. I get it, even if I disagree (especially with cleric, who if you aren't monkeying around with some shillelagh/GFB or GWF war-cleric cheesery, can easily just dump all their ASIs straight into Wisdom).

Darkvision is the great bugaboo of racial selection. It's really powerful... if the DM wants it to be. It's easy to replicate... if the DM wants it to be. For a cleric, given that you can get the light cantrip, you can live without it. OTOH, I really like being a medium-armored stealthy character, and a giant beacon where-ever you go can be a real problem.

[jaappleton]

I think a lot of people think not being able to start with a primary stat at 16 at 1st level in point buy is a big deal. I get it, even if I disagree (especially with cleric, who if you aren't monkeying around with some shillelagh/GFB or GWF war-cleric cheesery, can easily just dump all their ASIs straight into Wisdom).

Darkvision is the great bugaboo of racial selection. It's really powerful... if the DM wants it to be. It's easy to replicate... if the DM wants it to be. For a cleric, given that you can get the light cantrip, you can live without it. OTOH, I really like being a medium-armored stealthy character, and a giant beacon where-ever you go can be a real problem.

Precisely. Rolled stats? Not that big of an issue for a non-Wis race.

Whenever I make a character, I look at what I want to do. My Light Cleric is a Hill Dwarf, not because I wanted to be a Dwarf. I said, "What gets me 16 Con, 14 Dex, 16 Wis, and Darkvision in a point buy?"

Hill Dwarf was it. Resistance to poison and bonus HP were just icing on the cake. I'm lv3 now, so that's 18 Wis next level, and 20 Wis at lv8. Or I may decide to go with Resilience: Con at lv8, depending on how things are shaking up with Concentration, any magic items I've accumulated, etc.

[bendicott]

I would put a note that, if (and only if) you're playing in a Dark Sun campaign, Create or Destroy Water becomes one of the best 1st level spells.

[Yorrin]

I would put a note that, if (and only if) you're playing in a Dark Sun campaign, Create or Destroy Water becomes one of the best 1st level spells.

Haha, quite true. It can also be used as a poor man's anti-invisibility if your invisible foe is walking around in a puddle of water making splash marks. Sadly, these are somewhat corner cases.

[SharkForce]

I would put a note that, if (and only if) you're playing in a Dark Sun campaign, Create or Destroy Water becomes one of the best 1st level spells.

if they do it right, create or destroy water will only be available to water (and probably rain) clerics.

[bendicott]

As a generality, sure, but I could see exceptions being made. Heat (or lack thereof) to modify the dew point of surrounding air (allowing air to absorb or expell moisture). Earth clerics could draw moisture from the rocks beneath their feet (even sandstone is nearly 2% water, according to the Smithsonian). Or say your DM lets you roll a water Genasi... There are always exceptions.

[Theodoxus]

Heck, I'm making prodigious use of Create Water in a non-Athas setting... stuck in a "worlds largest dungeon" remake. We've met a number of neutral critters who have been begging us for water, as they roam around looking for sustenance. Between Create Water and our party druid with his good berries - we've been able to explore without concern...

Still pretty niche, but in games with "killer DMs" and resource (food) management, it's a definite winner.

[SharkForce]

As a generality, sure, but I could see exceptions being made. Heat (or lack thereof) to modify the dew point of surrounding air (allowing air to absorb or expell moisture). Earth clerics could draw moisture from the rocks beneath their feet (even sandstone is nearly 2% water, according to the Smithsonian). Or say your DM lets you roll a water Genasi... There are always exceptions.

it's a pretty major part of the setting. water clerics create water. other clerics don't.

[suplee215]

Great thread, I have been toying with making a cleric for a while and this has been a great help. One odd thing I think you overlooked is a Dwarf ability to wear heavy armor with no penalty. In the PHB under a dwarf's speed it reads "Your base walking speed is 25 feet. Your speed is not reduced by wearing heavy armor". Only really useful on a Hill Dwarf (if you are playing a mountain dwarf or duegar with less than 15 str you are doing something wrong) but it allows a pure wis build to wear heavy armor with no downside. Your Life and Nature example builds ignore this feature.

[Yorrin]

Great thread, I have been toying with making a cleric for a while and this has been a great help. One odd thing I think you overlooked is a Dwarf ability to wear heavy armor with no penalty. In the PHB under a dwarf's speed it reads "Your base walking speed is 25 feet. Your speed is not reduced by wearing heavy armor". Only really useful on a Hill Dwarf (if you are playing a mountain dwarf or duegar with less than 15 str you are doing something wrong) but it allows a pure wis build to wear heavy armor with no downside. Your Life and Nature example builds ignore this feature.

Thanks for the input. I'll make note of it.

[Arkhios]

(if you are playing a mountain dwarf or duegar with less than 15 str you are doing something wrong)

Now I want to build a mountain dwarf or duergar with strength 9 or 10 (8 without racial increase) who relies on dexterity instead. Just because it's actually possible. (Note: it's nothing personal)

[Splaaat]

Hello. Thanks so much for the guide. It inspired me to try a Hill Dwarf Life Cleric who has been fun to play. I was thinking about an idea and wanted to run it by people here. I see you rated a wizard multi-class as weak, but I was reconsidering that perhaps. I was considering 1 level dip for:

1). Find Familiar - an owl familiar can give advantage on almost all attacks since they can perform the help function and don't trigger Opportunity Attacks so can help and fly away each round.
2). Minor Illusion - so much potential utility.
3). SCAG melee cantrips.
4). Shield - my int is a dump stat, so I only get one spell memorized, but 2 uses of Shield per long rest + maybe 1 more w Arcane Renewal seems quite useful.
5). Rituals. Comprehend Languages and Detect Magic easy to add to spell book and add more utility as rituals that don't take up Cleric spells memorized. Tenser's floating Disc and/or unseen servant also rituals so a tiny bit more potential utility.

Seems worthwhile, but maybe I'm better off just sticking cleric? The familiar alone almost seems worth it though as advantage on ~90% of attacks seems quite powerful.

Thanks for helping me think about this.

[Sans.]

Would be helpful if you rated the domains overall, not just the individual features.

[Yorrin]

wizard multi-class.

Here's the thing about Wizards as a multiclass: a lot of its best features can be gotten via feat (Magic Initiate and/or Ritual Caster), which doesn't delay your Cleric progress. And of course investing in Int, which is one of your dump stats, is a huge wasted opportunity cost. Don't get me wrong: Wizards are great and have a lot of wonderful goodies, but it's just too big of an investment for a standard Cleric.

Would be helpful if you rated the domains overall, not just the individual features.

The problem is most of them are too close to each other for ratings to be helpful. Trickery sucks, Knowledge is underwhelming, and everything else is varying degrees of really good.

[Edgerunner]

Trickery sucks, Knowledge is underwhelming, and everything else is varying degrees of really good.

Knowledge as a Domain may suck but I just Love it for a 1 lvl dip. Gets you armor and 2 expertise.

[CantigThimble]

Knowledge as a Domain may suck but I just Love it for a 1 lvl dip. Gets you armor and 2 expertise.

You should try playing around with the level 6 channel divinity option. It is literally the best tool that exists for social encounters. You get the effects of read thoughts with no verbal or somatic components and know 100% whether your suggestion will succeed or fail before you make it.

[rooneg]

Knowledge as a Domain may suck but I just Love it for a 1 lvl dip. Gets you armor and 2 expertise.

I actually have two characters with a 1 level Knowledge Cleric dip, one Wizard who started Knowledge Cleric for WIS saves, Medium Armor, Guidance, Healing Word, Bless, and the ability to act like a super-genius when it comes to Arcana and History checks, and the other a Rogue/Warlock/Cleric/Bard skill monkey build. That one level gets you a LOT.

[suplee215]

Now I want to build a mountain dwarf or duergar with strength 9 or 10 (8 without racial increase) who relies on dexterity instead. Just because it's actually possible. (Note: it's nothing personal)

Nothing personal taken. But outside of builds where you are attempting to gain armor (which you are not if you are wearing builds) the only reason to make such a build is flavor. Which is fine but I find irrelevant when it comes to making guides about the best methods.

[McNinja]

I actually have two characters with a 1 level Knowledge Cleric dip, one Wizard who started Knowledge Cleric for WIS saves, Medium Armor, Guidance, Healing Word, Bless, and the ability to act like a super-genius when it comes to Arcana and History checks, and the other a Rogue/Warlock/Cleric/Bard skill monkey build. That one level gets you a LOT.

It really does. I'm going for a skill monkey multiclass build, and I didn't even consider a knowledge cleric until yesterday.

[Yorrin]

RE: All the dipping discussion, Cleric is definitely one of the best dips in the game, probably right after Fighter. As a dip Knowledge offers comparable gains to other domains.

[Dudu]

Warlocks are wonderful 2 lvl dips for any Cha based character as well.

But I think clerics, rogues and fighters are the best dip classes as a whole.

[treecko]

You have to wonder how good trickery cleric could have been if their channel didn't need concentration. Spirit guardians alone with that would make me very happy.

Also if they got improved cantrip over divine strike with such a terrible damage type.

[Yorrin]

You have to wonder how good trickery cleric could have been if their channel didn't need concentration. Spirit guardians alone with that would make me very happy.

Also if they got improved cantrip over divine strike with such a terrible damage type.

Those changes would make all the difference in the world. That would give them the mechanical coherence they need to establish them along the line of a pure caster (what the guide calls the pure Wis build). Giving them martial weapon proficiencies instead of Potent Spellcasting, along with your non-concentration channel, would be a close second for a fix. Still not great because poison damage, but at least mechanically coherent.

[GhostOfTarur]

I'd heavily recommend the Ranger dip not for Colossus slayer (which tapers off in effectiveness compared to something else), but for Horde Breaker (the something else). Colossus slayer is more likely to come up and doesn't require another attack to make use of it. However, Horde breaker gives you all of the advantages of a second attack at a slightly less frequent rate of appearance. Unless you're using a dagger, Horde Breaker will automatically out-class Colossus Slayer in terms of damage, and help bring down groups of enemies far faster, which means you have less healing on your hands. Combine this with Polearm master, and a 5 level investment nets you a total of 4 attacks in a given round (5 if someone walks into your range). There are some pretty nifty combos available here.

[Hrdven]

Half-orc be very good choice for cleric, because when you get down to 0 you can easily heal yourself or cast sanctuary. This important when you only character in the party able to heal. Specially good for Tempest Domain clerics who get hit more often.

[Yorrin]

Half-orc be very good choice for cleric, because when you get down to 0 you can easily heal yourself or cast sanctuary. This important when you only character in the party able to heal. Specially good for Tempest Domain clerics who get hit more often.

Half Orc is definitely one of the better races for Str builds, though admittedly I'm biased against Str builds myself unless you're a War cleric multiclassed into something with two attacks. Though that feature in particular... well Clerics are supposed to prevent the party from reaching that point. Though I suppose crit happens

[Fierdaus]

Thanks Yorrin for this awesome thread!

I am pretty new to DnD, this is the first version I have played and I have a question. Not many people are talking about the knowledge domain unfortunately, but I have a very role-play based campaign going on playing one.
My character is going to lead a reformation in her religion and I saw the crazy cultist warlock dip and liked what I saw. I have no idea though at what level it would be useful to put the two planned warlock levels. Story wise it does not fit these coming levels yet (I'm level 3 now), but what level would you recommend me to dip if I could choose?

Right now I am a Human Knowledge Cleric with the following (4d6 dice rolled) stats:

Strength 12
Dexterity 14
Constitution 17
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 16
Charisma 14

I have the Healer feat by adjusting the acolyte background a bit.
Would love to hear tips!
Thanks in advance!

[Yorrin]

Thanks Yorrin for this awesome thread!

You're Welcome

I am pretty new to DnD, this is the first version I have played and I have a question. Not many people are talking about the knowledge domain unfortunately, but I have a very role-play based campaign going on playing one.
My character is going to lead a reformation in her religion and I saw the crazy cultist warlock dip and liked what I saw. I have no idea though at what level it would be useful to put the two planned warlock levels. Story wise it does not fit these coming levels yet (I'm level 3 now), but what level would you recommend me to dip if I could choose?

Right now I am a Human Knowledge Cleric with the following (4d6 dice rolled) stats:

Strength 12
Dexterity 14
Constitution 17
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 16
Charisma 14

I have the Healer feat by adjusting the acolyte background a bit.
Would love to hear tips!
Thanks in advance!

Looks like you've got pretty solid stats. Wis could definitely be higher, for save DCs at the least. In terms of timing a dip, there's a few good places. If you're going to do it sooner rather than later you could go right after level 4, for that Wis bump. If you're going to push it off several levels I'd do it after 8, for not only another Wis bump but also Potent Cantrip. After that point you could really take it whenever, since that's about when Cleric starts slowing down in terms of class features.