Not All Who Wander are Lost: A Ranger's Guide

[Papadragon]

I really love this guide! easy to read and very entertaining. Any plans on updating this with the current revision from UA?

[EvilAnagram]

I really love this guide! easy to read and very entertaining. Any plans on updating this with the current revision from UA?

I already updated the Revised Ranger UA. Has there been another one?

[SharkForce]

I already updated the Revised Ranger UA. Has there been another one?

depends on which revised ranger UA you updated for :P

[Araen]

I just want to point out that the new ranger kits multiclass extremely well. The deep stalker is practically begging for a 3 lvl rogue dip for expertise (stealth and whatever) and autocrits in the first round. Plus you get sneak attack for even better nova damage, though not a ton.

And the new beast master would be awesome with 5 levels in monk. You could pick dueling instead of TWF, still get a d6 bonus action attack and get two attacks per round.

[Ravinsild]

Hey guys!

I'm brand new to 5e and I had a question about building a Goblin (Volo's Guide to Monsters) Beast Master Ranger using the Revised Ranger rules found as a link in the guide.

Essentially I was thinking as a Goblin I could ride a Wolf/Panther/Eligible Medium Beast and have Two-Weapon Fighting and by the 5th Ranger Level gaining "Coordinated Attack" be able to have the following move as per RAW (Specific beats General, so BM Coordinated Attack > Mounted Combat Rules) Move (to the enemy) 1 Action (Attack), Bonus Action (Off-hand Attack) and then Coordinated Attack Beast Reaction (Mount Attack). Is this properly interpreting the RAW as a mounted Goblin on a Wolf? Then assuming I began combat using my bonus action to cast Hunter's Mark and eventually later on gaining a possible level in Rogue or so add Sneak Attack + Hunter's Mark damage dice rolls to the overall damage (Would they be rolled after all attacks are done or after the main attack option?)

Also would it be worth it to dip in 6 or so levels of Rogue and would I want Assassin or the SCAG Swashbuckler spec? Or some other class for bonuses to damage. Pretty much the idea is to be a fast scout mini cavalry and use the art from Pathfinder to be an adorable anklebiter on a wolf that rides people down and hacks them up for most damage possible. He's a vicious little goblin that is a murderhobo but generally good. For the most part :^)

Or for the sake of more polite PC types replace "Goblin" with Gnome/Halfling. Is the above scenario accurate to my understanding of the rules? Appreciate the help guys!

[8wGremlin]

The revised Ranger has some alternative rules for Beastmaster companions:

Expanding Companion Options Depending on the nature of your campaign, the DM might choose to expand the options for your animal companion. As a rule of thumb, a beast can serve as an animal companion if it is Medium or smaller, has 15 or fewer hit points, and cannot deal more than 8 damage with a single attack. In general, that applies to creatures with a challenge rating of 1/4 or less, but there are exceptions

What is available from other sources?

[EvilAnagram]

Sorry I took a while. Life is a bit hectic.

Essentially I was thinking as a Goblin I could ride a Wolf/Panther/Eligible Medium Beast and have Two-Weapon Fighting and by the 5th Ranger Level gaining "Coordinated Attack" be able to have the following move as per RAW (Specific beats General, so BM Coordinated Attack > Mounted Combat Rules) Move (to the enemy) 1 Action (Attack), Bonus Action (Off-hand Attack) and then Coordinated Attack Beast Reaction (Mount Attack). Is this properly interpreting the RAW as a mounted Goblin on a Wolf? Then assuming I began combat using my bonus action to cast Hunter's Mark and eventually later on gaining a possible level in Rogue or so add Sneak Attack + Hunter's Mark damage dice rolls to the overall damage (Would they be rolled after all attacks are done or after the main attack option?)

It's not clear whether or not the wolf will be able to move on your turn as per mount rules, but that's essentially how it works.

Also would it be worth it to dip in 6 or so levels of Rogue and would I want Assassin or the SCAG Swashbuckler spec? Or some other class for bonuses to damage. Pretty much the idea is to be a fast scout mini cavalry and use the art from Pathfinder to be an adorable anklebiter on a wolf that rides people down and hacks them up for most damage possible. He's a vicious little goblin that is a murderhobo but generally good. For the most part :^)

Six levels might be a bit much if you plan on being primarily a Ranger, but otherwise it's fine.

[quietkal]

Just wanted to stop by and thank you for putting this guide together! I always make sure to check here for your advice on certain choices before committing to the character!

[Trum4n1208]

I do have a quick question, Evil Anagram (Mr. Anagram? Anagram?) Regarding the language for Underdark Scout in the Revised Ranger, what does "such creatures gain no benefit when attempting to detect you in dark conditions," etc. Basically, can you give me a quick "idiot's guide to answer?" I'd greatly appreciate it!

[EvilAnagram]

Just wanted to stop by and thank you for putting this guide together! I always make sure to check here for your advice on certain choices before committing to the character!

Thank you! That's very nice of you to say.

I do have a quick question, Evil Anagram (Mr. Anagram? Anagram?) Regarding the language for Underdark Scout in the Revised Ranger, what does "such creatures gain no benefit when attempting to detect you in dark conditions," etc. Basically, can you give me a quick "idiot's guide to answer?" I'd greatly appreciate it!

Usually, creatures with darkvision can detect people in dark shadows as though they were in dim light and people in dim light as though they were in bright light. On page 183, you can see that people in complete darkness have total concealment, but since creatures with darkvision see that as dim light, you can only have partial concealment from them.

The Underdark Scout ability means that Deep Stalkers can still use darkness to have total concealment from creatures with darkvision, which means they can more easily hide.

[Trum4n1208]

Thank you! That's very nice of you to say.



Usually, creatures with darkvision can detect people in dark shadows as though they were in dim light and people in dim light as though they were in bright light. On page 183, you can see that people in complete darkness have total concealment, but since creatures with darkvision see that as dim light, you can only have partial concealment from them.

The Underdark Scout ability means that Deep Stalkers can still use darkness to have total concealment from creatures with darkvision, which means they can more easily hide.

Thanks man, you're a saint!

[CHzilla117]

Will you be updating this thread to add the Horizon Walker and Primeval Guardian archetypes for the recent UA?

[EvilAnagram]

Will you be updating this thread to add the Horizon Walker and Primeval Guardian archetypes for the recent UA?

I'm honestly not sure. At the moment, WotC is releasing material far faster than I can try it out, and I already have a lot on my plate. I may hold off on the UA material for my guides until after they finish this rapid-fire schedule.

[nmitchell2]

I have a question. If a Beast Conclave Ranger multiclasses with a class that has Extra Attack, is it possible to use Extra Attack with Coordinated Attack? It comes 1 level earlier than Fighter gets Extra Attack (2) at best and it delays Ranger ASIs and Beast Conclave features if you take it that early. It does give you and your Beast Companion a total of 4 attacks per round though, I can see people taking Monk and using Flurry of Blows to get 6 attacks per round, most with advantage if your Beast knocks them prone. Thoughts on allowing this?

[blurneko]

I have a question. If a Beast Conclave Ranger multiclasses with a class that has Extra Attack, is it possible to use Extra Attack with Coordinated Attack? It comes 1 level earlier than Fighter gets Extra Attack (2) at best and it delays Ranger ASIs and Beast Conclave features if you take it that early. It does give you and your Beast Companion a total of 4 attacks per round though, I can see people taking Monk and using Flurry of Blows to get 6 attacks per round, most with advantage if your Beast knocks them prone. Thoughts on allowing this?

Given that Coordinated Attack uses up the Beast's Reaction, I fail to see how you will be able to use it more than once per round.

[TrinculoLives]

Any chance of this guide being updated with some more UA stuff? I suppose UA articles aren't really a thing that one expects to read in a guide of this type; but I sure do enjoy discussions about my favourite class!

If you ever get around to trying out some of the UA ranger options, EvilAnagram, please do share.

https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/d...e_0117JCMM.pdf

http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/do...Subclasses.pdf

[Shadowflick]

Gotta get some Volos guide in there soon, goblin rangers riding there animal companions with cunning action......

[Trum4n1208]

Gotta get some Volos guide in there soon, goblin rangers riding there animal companions with cunning action......

He already has the Volo's Guide races in the guide.

[nmitchell2]

Given that Coordinated Attack uses up the Beast's Reaction, I fail to see how you will be able to use it more than once per round.

You have two attacks from Extra Attack. Coordinated Attack lets your Beast Companion attack on your turn using its reaction. Then your Beast Companion has its own turn, during which it gets an attack. That's 4 attacks per round all day long. You have to multiclass to get Extra Attack but 5 levels in 2 classes means you can get this at 10th level. Fighters don't match this until 20th level and it's meant to be their entire shtick.

If we're going to munchkin the **** out of this, lets say our secondary class is Monk. Martial Arts is yet another sustainable attack, that's 5 attacks per round all day long. You have at least 5 Ki per short rest to spend on Flurry of Blows if you really want to go ham. Let's be a Kobold and have a Wolf as your Beast Companion because who doesn't want advantage on all those attacks from Pack Tactics? If we've got advantage, why not wield a Quarterstaff in two hands and take Great Weapon Master?

Let's do calculate the average damage on a standard turn at Ranger 6/Monk 5, with comparisons to some other builds at 11th level that are well known for having high sustainable DPR. I'll assume your Beast Companion is a Wolf, you both have 18 Dex, Hunter's Mark is active, you're wielding a Quarterstaff in two hands. For the other builds, I'll assume 18s in the relevant stats. I'll assume all builds hit all their attacks.

Ranger/Monk
2d8 (two Quarterstaff attacks) + 1d6 (Martial Arts) + 3d6 (Hunter's Mark) + 32 (Dex mod + Great Weapon Master) = 55
4d4 (two Bite attacks) + 14 (Dex mod + proficiency) = 24
55 + 24 = 79
Sorlock
6d10 (Eldritch Blast) + 6d6 (Hex) + 24 (Cha mod) = 78
Fighter with Crossbow Expert + Sharpshooter
4d6 (four Hand Crossbow attacks) + 56 (Dex mod + Sharpshooter) = 70
Fighter with Polearm Master + Great Weapon Master
3d10 (three Glaive/Halberd attacks) + 1d4 (butt) + 56 (Str mod + Great Weapon Master) = 75
Just for fun, I'll also compare it to my 'Jedi' build using the Order of the Soul Knife Mystic from UA (Rogue 2/Mystic 9)
4d8 (Booming Blade) + 1d6 (Sneak Attack) + 7d10 (Lethal Strike) + 11 (Dex mod + Hone the Blade + Augmented Weapon) = 71

It's the strongest sustainable DPR in the game at 11th level. Flurry of Blows takes it up to 90.

[MeeposFire]

You have two attacks from Extra Attack. Coordinated Attack lets your Beast Companion attack on your turn using its reaction. Then your Beast Companion has its own turn, during which it gets an attack. That's 4 attacks per round all day long. You have to multiclass to get Extra Attack but 5 levels in 2 classes means you can get this at 10th level. Fighters don't match this until 20th level and it's meant to be their entire shtick.

If we're going to munchkin the **** out of this, lets say our secondary class is Monk. Martial Arts is yet another sustainable attack, that's 5 attacks per round all day long. You have at least 5 Ki per short rest to spend on Flurry of Blows if you really want to go ham. Let's be a Kobold and have a Wolf as your Beast Companion because who doesn't want advantage on all those attacks from Pack Tactics? If we've got advantage, why not wield a Quarterstaff in two hands and take Great Weapon Master?

Let's do calculate the average damage on a standard turn at Ranger 6/Monk 5, with comparisons to some other builds at 11th level that are well known for having high sustainable DPR. I'll assume your Beast Companion is a Wolf, you both have 18 Dex, Hunter's Mark is active, you're wielding a Quarterstaff in two hands. For the other builds, I'll assume 18s in the relevant stats. I'll assume all builds hit all their attacks.

Ranger/Monk
2d8 (two Quarterstaff attacks) + 1d6 (Martial Arts) + 3d6 (Hunter's Mark) + 32 (Dex mod + Great Weapon Master) = 55
4d4 (two Bite attacks) + 14 (Dex mod + proficiency) = 24
55 + 24 = 79
Sorlock
6d10 (Eldritch Blast) + 6d6 (Hex) + 24 (Cha mod) = 78
Fighter with Crossbow Expert + Sharpshooter
4d6 (four Hand Crossbow attacks) + 56 (Dex mod + Sharpshooter) = 70
Fighter with Polearm Master + Great Weapon Master
3d10 (three Glaive/Halberd attacks) + 1d4 (butt) + 56 (Str mod + Great Weapon Master) = 75
Just for fun, I'll also compare it to my 'Jedi' build using the Order of the Soul Knife Mystic from UA (Rogue 2/Mystic 9)
4d8 (Booming Blade) + 1d6 (Sneak Attack) + 7d10 (Lethal Strike) + 11 (Dex mod + Hone the Blade + Augmented Weapon) = 71

It's the strongest sustainable DPR in the game at 11th level. Flurry of Blows takes it up to 90.

Quarter staff is not heavy and so does not work with the GWF feat.

[Arial Black]

Quarter staff is not heavy and so does not work with the GWF feat.

GWF is not a feat, it is a fighting style. A staff in two hands does benefit from GWF.

If you mean the GWM feat, then a staff does work with the 'cleave' part, but not the 'power attack' part.

[MeeposFire]

GWF is not a feat, it is a fighting style. A staff in two hands does benefit from GWF.

If you mean the GWM feat, then a staff does work with the 'cleave' part, but not the 'power attack' part.

Yes the feat I can never keep the names straight.

Yea the cleave part works with any weapon (even daggers) but would not be worth it here because you already have a bonus action that gives 1-2 extra attacks. You would not spend a feat on a character that cannot get any use of the power attack portion and already has a bonus action attack for 1d6 when the staff at best if used two handed is 1d8.

[nmitchell2]

GWF is not a feat, it is a fighting style. A staff in two hands does benefit from GWF.

If you mean the GWM feat, then a staff does work with the 'cleave' part, but not the 'power attack' part.

This I wasn't aware of. I was under the impression that GWM worked as long as you wielded the weapon in two hands. This cuts it down to size a bit, reducing the damage by 20 per turn but without the -5 to-hit on both attacks you're more likely to actually hit and deal the damage. Competitive but not overpowered. Thanks for the info! I don't feel like I will overshadow the rest of the group if I run in as a Kobold riding a Wolf now.

[Beerbarian]

I've found a list of some home brew ranger companions that was really well done here, but now can't find it. Can anyone help me out?

[khachaturian]

please help my clarify my thoughts on hail of thorns

important features
- bonus action
- can upcast
- d10 damage per spell level
- dex save for half damage

for the UA ranger taking deep stalker, at level three, the use of a level one spell slot on hunter's mark gives you an extra 2d6 on the first round of combat. this is assuming you don't already have it up from a previous encounter

hail of thorns- let's say there are two enemies next to your target
- lose out on average 7 damage , but you get 5.5 on the primary target and 11 total on the secondaries. dc is probably 12, so depending on the enemies, let's say half make the save. this should give you about 5 extra total damage, maybe a little less on more nimble types. this would be made up in the next round or two with hunter's mark
- seems like the math gets worse at level five when you get extra attack.

what does the playground think?

[Mervold]

Lightning Arrow needs to be updated to purple, based on this Sage Advice:
"The splash damage of lightning arrow affects each creature within 10 ft. of the target, not the target."

It is a concentration spell, so directly competing with your Hunter's Mark. Let's see what it does compared to HM, while being 2 levels higher:
Hunter's Mark, first round:
Extra Attack, 2x (1d8+5+1d6) = 26
Second round, the same, together 52

Lightning Arrow, first round:
Extra Attack, 1d8+5 + 4d8 = 27.5
Second round: 2x (1d8+5) = 19, together 46,5

It looks even worse in round 3, especially if you have Crossbow expert. The 2d8 area damage on level 9 is a joke, and the primary target does not even suffer that.

So it is only good if the enemy has astronomical AC (Lightning Arrow also deals damage on a miss), or somehow on level 9 you do not have a magical arrow and the enemy has resistance to non-magical weapons. In other words, very situational.

[Specter]

Lightning Arrow needs to be updated to purple, based on this Sage Advice:
"The splash damage of lightning arrow affects each creature within 10 ft. of the target, not the target."

It is a concentration spell, so directly competing with your Hunter's Mark. Let's see what it does compared to HM, while being 2 levels higher:
Hunter's Mark, first round:
Extra Attack, 2x (1d8+5+1d6) = 26
Second round, the same, together 52

Lightning Arrow, first round:
Extra Attack, 1d8+5 + 4d8 = 27.5
Second round: 2x (1d8+5) = 19, together 46,5

It looks even worse in round 3, especially if you have Crossbow expert. The 2d8 area damage on level 9 is a joke, and the primary target does not even suffer that.

So it is only good if the enemy has astronomical AC (Lightning Arrow also deals damage on a miss), or somehow on level 9 you do not have a magical arrow and the enemy has resistance to non-magical weapons. In other words, very situational.

It is good whenever the enemy has another enemy within 10 feet of him. If you have two enemies or more, it's suddenly gold. Single-target damage does not compete with multiple-target damage, they are separate things, each with their own moment to shine.

please help my clarify my thoughts on hail of thorns

important features
- bonus action
- can upcast
- d10 damage per spell level
- dex save for half damage

for the UA ranger taking deep stalker, at level three, the use of a level one spell slot on hunter's mark gives you an extra 2d6 on the first round of combat. this is assuming you don't already have it up from a previous encounter

hail of thorns- let's say there are two enemies next to your target
- lose out on average 7 damage , but you get 5.5 on the primary target and 11 total on the secondaries. dc is probably 12, so depending on the enemies, let's say half make the save. this should give you about 5 extra total damage, maybe a little less on more nimble types. this would be made up in the next round or two with hunter's mark
- seems like the math gets worse at level five when you get extra attack.

what does the playground think?

Same here. Nothing wrong with a Ranger having both spells so he can tactically adapt to his enemies. Think of Hail of Thorns as Ranger's area smite.

[EvilAnagram]

It is good whenever the enemy has another enemy within 10 feet of him. If you have two enemies or more, it's suddenly gold. Single-target damage does not compete with multiple-target damage, they are separate things, each with their own moment to shine.



Same here. Nothing wrong with a Ranger having both spells so he can tactically adapt to his enemies. Think of Hail of Thorns as Ranger's area smite.

You pretty much read my mind here.

[EvilAnagram]

I completely revised a big portion of the guide, updating spell ratings and style. I also revised some of the old ratings for archetypes to make sure everything made sense, and my ratings fell in line with the averages. That they all average to Blue, even after I downgraded one of the Beast Master's features, probably says something about me.

Anyways, I reached the conclusion that people who are claiming Xanathar's archetypes are incredibly overpowered are slightly hysterical. They essentially have extra situational tools, which is potent, but not game-breaking. It's annoying, mostly since the Hunter doesn't have situational benefits, and I think giving PHB Rangers extra spells known is perfectly fair, but I don't see a Hunter using Guardian of Nature getting outperformed by a Gloom Stalker with Greater Invisibility.

Yeah, the argument is that the Gloom Stalker could use either, and it's fair, but it's not going to make a meaningful difference on the table.

I love being uncontroversial.

[jaappleton]

I see you rated it sky blue, and I agree, but I wanted to mention something very interesting:

At lv8 with Revised Ranger, a Goblin has gained all of the Rogue's coveted Cunning Action without MCing at all. They can already Disengage and Hide via its racial bonuses, but lv8 RR lets it Dash.

They're a Small race with 30ft movement, and some tables don't allow MCing, so I just figured some people might find it appealing.

I may or may not be building a Goblin RR Deep Stalker at this very moment >_>