Looking for examples of how a 90 damage At-Will works...

[wolfstone]

Fire/Radiant does more damage. Vulnerability Fire 10 Vulnerability Radiant 10 double-stacking is amazing. 40 damage for free.

Wait... Double-stacking? How does that happen?

[masteraleph]

Wait... Double-stacking? How does that happen?

The confluence of Radiant One and Firewind Blade. Radiant One doesn't require an attack, just that you "deal damage" and have Combat Advantage. FWB adds a separate damage instance. So you hit and get the damage including the Radiant One damage (which would make it fire automatically, even without Shocking Flame), and then the Firewind Blade damage gets the RO bonus, which in turn triggers the vulnerabilities again.

Worth noting that the hypothetical level 30 character here would also have Hurricane of Blades and so would have a 4x attack every encounter (pinging FWB every attack). And it's not even at the most ridiculous level it could be- Pelor's Sun Blessing would add a few damage, for example. And even then, it's not quite at the top of its game.

The flip side to all of this is building a useful character. The tradeoff of using Morninglord on a striker is that they don't get much of a benefit until level 16, and unless they have a way of dealing fire and radiant damage together, they can't take advantage of FWB until Epic- and, for that matter, it's hard (or even impossible) to get Radiant in a way that doesn't kill other damage types and is still usable with Morninglord until Epic. That's basically half a tier when the PP could have been doing something useful and wasn't, and another half that's less than ideal, all so you can do a lot in Epic tier.

[wolfstone]

The confluence of Radiant One and Firewind Blade. Radiant One doesn't require an attack, just that you "deal damage" and have Combat Advantage. FWB adds a separate damage instance. So you hit and get the damage including the Radiant One damage (which would make it fire automatically, even without Shocking Flame), and then the Firewind Blade damage gets the RO bonus, which in turn triggers the vulnerabilities again.

Worth noting that the hypothetical level 30 character here would also have Hurricane of Blades and so would have a 4x attack every encounter (pinging FWB every attack). And it's not even at the most ridiculous level it could be- Pelor's Sun Blessing would add a few damage, for example. And even then, it's not quite at the top of its game.

The flip side to all of this is building a useful character. The tradeoff of using Morninglord on a striker is that they don't get much of a benefit until level 16, and unless they have a way of dealing fire and radiant damage together, they can't take advantage of FWB until Epic- and, for that matter, it's hard (or even impossible) to get Radiant in a way that doesn't kill other damage types and is still usable with Morninglord until Epic. That's basically half a tier when the PP could have been doing something useful and wasn't, and another half that's less than ideal, all so you can do a lot in Epic tier.

So for Level 15 and lower, the lightning approach would be reliable?

[GPuzzle]

So for Level 15 and lower, the lightning approach would be reliable?

Yes but less effective than good old permafrost.

[wolfstone]

Yes but less effective than good old permafrost.

True, but Lasting Frost is a paragon feat, so I couldn't add vulnerability until Paragon. IS that it for Lightning damage maximizing as a Genasi, though, or is there something else that I missed?

[Nightgaun7]

True, but Lasting Frost is a paragon feat, so I couldn't add vulnerability until Paragon. IS that it for Lightning damage maximizing as a Genasi, though, or is there something else that I missed?

Frostcheese can also get you semi-permanent combat advantage, dunno if lightning optimization has similar. That's worth a bit. I'd rather hit more than get an extra +5.

[georgie_leech]

Frostcheese can also get you semi-permanent combat advantage, dunno if lightning optimization has similar. That's worth a bit. I'd rather hit more than get an extra +5.

Depends on class and party composition though. Some groups can get pretty much constant CA going by virtue of status effects or flanking or, depending on leaders, straight up CA for everyone. Since CA doesn't stack, in that case I'd go for whichever one got me bigger numbers.

For Theory Crafting though, I love me some Frostcheese.

[Nightgaun7]

Depends on class and party composition though. Some groups can get pretty much constant CA going by virtue of status effects or flanking or, depending on leaders, straight up CA for everyone. Since CA doesn't stack, in that case I'd go for whichever one got me bigger numbers.

For Theory Crafting though, I love me some Frostcheese.

ime even in a party of 8 with 3 leaders and plenty of status effects to go around, the frostcheese was still up and running far more consistently than anything else. When a couple of the other PCs died and then brought in new characters who also used it, things got ridiculous.

[wolfstone]

ime even in a party of 8 with 3 leaders and plenty of status effects to go around, the frostcheese was still up and running far more consistently than anything else. When a couple of the other PCs died and then brought in new characters who also used it, things got ridiculous.

True, but with Promise of Storm and a Lightning Weapon, I can do more damage per hit, which is what I'm going for. I'm now exploring a Genasi Lightning Two-sowrd Ranger build. Rangers seem to do the most damage per turn overall, so I wonder what a Lightning version would do. I'll avoid Radiant/Fire as the PP I'll go with will be Lyrandar Wind-Rider for extra damage and most likely Destined Scion for max accuracy as there isn't a lightning-geared ED.

[wolfstone]

The Belt of Titan Strength damage bonus is a daily ability.

Try playing a slayer; add your Dex bonus and then some to damage.

I looked up the Slayer class and learned that it only uses basic melee attacks. There's Utility powers and some At-Will stances, but all you do is swing a weapon again and again, ad nausium. Also, the most of a bonus the DEX mod can do is +15 maximum, so it doesn't sound like it would hold up compared to other non-Essencials classes. The Knight class sufferes the same way, but trades extra damage for a defender aura, from what I can tell. This still makes them rather weak on damage in Epic. A Weaponmaster has access to stronger powers that can do more damage.

[MeeposFire]

I looked up the Slayer class and learned that it only uses basic melee attacks. There's Utility powers and some At-Will stances, but all you do is swing a weapon again and again, ad nausium. Also, the most of a bonus the DEX mod can do is +15 maximum, so it doesn't sound like it would hold up compared to other non-Essencials classes. The Knight class sufferes the same way, but trades extra damage for a defender aura, from what I can tell. This still makes them rather weak on damage in Epic. A Weaponmaster has access to stronger powers that can do more damage.

Actually the slayer is one of the most damaging single target striker chassis's in the game. Its large bonus to damage applies to all his weapon attacks including multiple attack powers which make him really dangerous. A standard slayer taking the training feat for a fighter encounter power trade and reserve maneuver for another power can out damage most strikers in the game. Consider that using a gouge (a spear type weapon) you can use a charge+power strike (with all the normal optimization for it which includes knocking the target prone), use trip up for an extra attack, and then use a triple attack encounter power (fighter level 3 power). That is 5 attacks in a round with each attack getting the striker bonus damage. That is a nasty bit of damage for a level 11 character and it can go up from there.

A weapon master will hit hard and he can use the same powers but the slayer will hit harder. This makes sense as they have different jobs.

[georgie_leech]

Actually the slayer is one of the most damaging single target striker chassis's in the game. Its large bonus to damage applies to all his weapon attacks including multiple attack powers which make him really dangerous. A standard slayer taking the training feat for a fighter encounter power trade and reserve maneuver for another power can out damage most strikers in the game. Consider that using a gouge (a spear type weapon) you can use a charge+power strike (with all the normal optimization for it which includes knocking the target prone), use trip up for an extra attack, and then use a triple attack encounter power (fighter level 3 power). That is 5 attacks in a round with each attack getting the striker bonus damage. That is a nasty bit of damage for a level 11 character and it can go up from there.

A weapon master will hit hard and he can use the same powers but the slayer will hit harder. This makes sense as they have different jobs.

In other words, yeah, the Slayer pretty much only knows Hit Thing With Sword out of the box, but you don't need to stay in the box and he's really good at Hit Thing With Sword. Pretty bland, mind you, but effective nonetheless.

[wolfstone]

A standard slayer taking the training feat for a fighter encounter power trade.

Which feat(s) are you talking about?

[Nightgaun7]

Which feat(s) are you talking about?

Adept Training or whichever one it is that lets you take fighter encounter powers, and then you take any of the various multi-hit fighter powers.

[Dimers]

Which feat(s) are you talking about?

Martial Cross-Training, requiring Improved Power Strike, lets you swap one use of power strike for an encounter power from your class.

[MeeposFire]

Martial Cross-Training, requiring Improved Power Strike, lets you swap one use of power strike for an encounter power from your class.

Also reserved maneuver which you use to trade out your encounter power from your paragon path assuming its power is bad. Something like shock trooper you wouldn't bother but if you went kensai for instance getting something like trip up works really well.

My favorite slayer character was one that used the spiked chain master feat to emulate Anubis from Ronin Warriors (quiet you yes I use the dub name). It had a triple attack since a spiked chain counted as a light blade with that feat and I could also hit reflex on a basic attack while applying things like slides. Pretty good fun to be honest and the damage was great. It also was very thematic so I felt pretty good about it.

[Dimers]

I can imagine a few DMs not allowing use of Reserve Maneuver to do that because of the Rules Compendium ruling about not "replacing" PP or ED powers. The language of Reserve Maneuver certainly doesn't say "replace", but then again, neither do the standard ways to accomplish powerswapping, Adept Power / Novice Power / Acolyte Power.

Personally I lean in favor of being able to make the trade, since Reserve Maneuver has a less permanent feel to it. (And especially for Essentials characters, who often could use the help if they're in a party with a 4.0 character.) But I am not all DMs.

[wolfstone]

I can imagine a few DMs not allowing use of Reserve Maneuver to do that because of the Rules Compendium ruling about not "replacing" PP or ED powers. The language of Reserve Maneuver certainly doesn't say "replace", but then again, neither do the standard ways to accomplish powerswapping, Adept Power / Novice Power / Acolyte Power.

Personally I lean in favor of being able to make the trade, since Reserve Maneuver has a less permanent feel to it. (And especially for Essentials characters, who often could use the help if they're in a party with a 4.0 character.) But I am not all DMs.

I went with Reserve maneuver and the three attack power Martial feats to allow for the most variety of powers. I also went with Kensei for the PP for the atk and damage bonuses. I now have a static +42 damage and +40 atk bonuses. I'm using a flaming weapon with a whetstone of combustion for added damage. FWB can only add temporary damage, so I went with a flaming weapon instead for longer-lasting fire damage.

One question on vulnerabilities vs. resistance/immunity. Does the inflicted elemental vulnerability replace a resistance/immunity, or do they cancel each other out on the resistance. What, if any, affect does inflicted vulnerability have against immunities?

[Tegu8788]

They stack. So if you have resist 5 fire and you inflict vulnerabile 10 fire, the end result is vulnerable 5 fire.

When it's a case of having resist 5 fire and resist 10 fire, you take the best, resisting 10 not 15 fire. Vulnerable 5 fire and vulnerable 10 fire, you just take the worst, vulnerable to 10 not 15 fire. More of the exact same kind replaces

Where it gets fun is where you have resist all 3, vulnerable 10 fire ice, and resist 5 fire.

[wolfstone]

They stack. So if you have resist 5 fire and you inflict vulnerabile 10 fire, the end result is vulnerable 5 fire.

When it's a case of having resist 5 fire and resist 10 fire, you take the best, resisting 10 not 15 fire. Vulnerable 5 fire and vulnerable 10 fire, you just take the worst, vulnerable to 10 not 15 fire. More of the exact same kind replaces

Where it gets fun is where you have resist all 3, vulnerable 10 fire ice, and resist 5 fire.

I meant monsters with resistance/immunity. Here's an example of what I mean:

A monster has Resist 5 Fire, and I inflict upon them Vulnerable 10 Fire (like with the Sarafi Feywarden trheme power). What happens? Do they exchange Resist 5 Fire for Vulnerable 5 Fire (if vulnerable changes the math of how fire affects them; Vul. 10 Fire takes away their Resist 5, then adds vulnerable 5, or does it replace the resistance with the vulnerability, so that they go from resist 5 to vulnerable 10?

What about immunity? Can a monster with immunity to fire damage be given vulnerable 10 fire instead?

[NecroRebel]

A monster with resist 5 fire which is given vulnerability 10 fire would have resist 5 fire and vulnerability 10 fire. The fact that they have resistance doesn't change the vulnerability number, nor is the reverse true. The creature would take 5 extra fire damage from fire attacks, since base-5+10=base+5. Basically, you subtract the lower value from the higher and treat a creature as if it had that much resistance/vulnerability, whichever is appropriate. A theoretical effect that didn't work on creatures resistant to a damage type would, by RAW, still not work on a creature given vulnerability to that damage type that overrode their resistance (a fire elemental given enough fire vulnerability for it to take bonus fire damage would still not be instakilled by lava, for instance).

A creature with immunity to a damage type isn't immune to being given vulnerability to that damage type, but they just simply don't take that form of damage, so the vulnerability practically has no effect; base+10x0=0, just as basex0=0.

Half damage effects, such as Insubstantial, work after all resistances and vulnerabilities have been calculated.

For relevant text, see Rules Compendium pages 224-226.

[bloodshed343]

For an example of hitting 90 damage with a single attack, take a swordmage|warlock elemental/sorcerer-king pact malec-keth janissary + radiant one with mindbite scorn, whetstone of combustion, and lasting frost with a firewind blade, offhand rod of ulban, gloves of ice, bracers of mighty striking, and siberys shard of merciless cold. You do 2d8 + 8 + 4d8 + 8 + 1d4 + 8 + 15 + 10 + 5 + 6 + 4 + 4 + 7 + 15 + 8 + 5 (average 132.5) psychic, cold, fire, and radiant damage with a 75% chance to hit for a dpr of 99.375