Fack my life

[Val666]

Earlier I asked help with a Binder Necromancer build. Sadly one of the other players did something and now I can't play it. The DM stated that only CORE + COMPLETES must be used and maybe laaaater something else may be added.

Guys...please help me build the most OP thing within core + complete reach. Im going to stomp that person.

Thanks <3

[Extra Anchovies]

Wizard 20.

Spoiler: Seriously, though

Show

What's your goal? What sort of character do you want? What sort of character do they have? What did they do that convinced the DM to allow only core+completes?

Or maybe Druid 20.

[Val666]

Wizard 20.

Spoiler: Seriously, though

Show

What's your goal? What sort of character do you want? What sort of character do they have? What did they do that convinced the DM to allow only core+completes?

Or maybe Druid 20.

Ok. I knew some will answer druid/wizard/cleric 20. Im looking for something more flavorful and for those 3 options I'd like cleric involved. Ok...I showed my DM the build: Binder 6/Ur Priest 2/Tenebrous Apostate 5/ X 7 and he said it's ok I'll look at binder/TA and everything else is alright, it's from completes and core. THEN THAT....PERSON showed him a build full of **** from more than 8 or 9 sourcebooks and DM said: **** it, stick with core and completes. I tried to reply but he went: My laws applies to everyone or something like that.

Edit: For the moment (we are 3 players) we have a Bard because his build was affected too. The other guy is looking for another build too.

[Extra Anchovies]

Cleric 20.

Honestly, don't build a character for PvP unless the game is explicitly PvP. Inter-party fighting (as opposed to inter-party RP conflicts, which can be great fun) can tear apart a game where the PCs are meant to stick together. Be careful.

Spirit Shaman 20.

[A_S]

What levels do you expect to be playing at?

[Troacctid]

I mean, Ur-Priest is still in Completes, and it gives you full 9th level casting in half as many levels as a straight Cleric, so there's that.

[Val666]

We are starting level 1. This games usually don't involve any wealth by level but we get stupid good items from DM. Ok..what about a build involving Ur Priest just with Core + Completes? is it better than Cleric 20?

[A_S]

We are starting level 1. This games usually don't involve any wealth by level but we get stupid good items from DM. Ok..what about a build involving Ur Priest just with Core + Completes? is it better than Cleric 20?

It depends on how you build into it. For purposes of Cleric casting (i.e., max spell level), it's weaker from levels 1-9, about the same from levels 10-11, stronger from levels 12-16, and then about the same again from 17 on. Since you're starting at level 1, that doesn't sound like a great deal for you. But maybe there's something awesome you want to do with your first 5 levels that will make up for delayed spell progression. Or maybe you just want to be an evil atheist with superpowers.

One thing worth asking: Does your DM include everything in the SRD as "core," or only the stuff in the rulebooks? There are a lot of variants from Unearthed Arcana that are on the online SRD that might be relevant.

[Val666]

It depends on how you build into it. For purposes of Cleric casting (i.e., max spell level), it's weaker from levels 1-9, about the same from levels 10-11, stronger from levels 12-16, and then about the same again from 17 on. Since you're starting at level 1, that doesn't sound like a great deal for you. But maybe there's something awesome you want to do with your first 5 levels that will make up for delayed spell progression. Or maybe you just want to be an evil atheist with superpowers.

One thing worth asking: Does your DM include everything in the SRD as "core," or only the stuff in the rulebooks? There are a lot of variants from Unearthed Arcana that are on the online SRD that might be relevant.

At the moment he is including rulebooks only, but Unearthed Arcana may come in for the play. I'll ask him. Still what kind of build involing Ur Priest + Core and Completes you have in mind :v?

[Divide by Zero]

We are starting level 1. This games usually don't involve any wealth by level but we get stupid good items from DM. Ok..what about a build involving Ur Priest just with Core + Completes? is it better than Cleric 20?

Arcane class/Ur-Priest/Mystic Theurge or psionic class/Ur-Priest/Psychic Theurge is pretty solid at all levels.

Not sure if Psychic Theurge will be allowed since it's in a web enhancement, but it's literally just Mystic Theurge with psionics swapped in so it's hardly a ridiculous request. And if Completes are in then Ardent is in, which has Wis synergy too (and Practiced Manifester means you aren't even a power level behind after you start Ur-Priest).

[Troacctid]

Arcane caster into Ur-Priest Mystic Theurge is always nice and cheesy. Or Warlock into Ur-Priest Eldritch Disciple could work too--I've never played a Warlock in a game that starts at 1st level, but I've been told Summon Swarm is very nasty early on.

[Val666]

What about a Gishy like build involving Ur-Priest and maybe monk. What you guys think about that?

[Extra Anchovies]

What about a Gishy like build involving Ur-Priest and maybe monk. What you guys think about that?

...You don't gish things with monk. At least, not if you want OP.

[Troacctid]

Monk is pretty much the polar opposite of OP. Not that starting off with a martial class in levels 1-5 before going Ur-Priest is a terrible idea, since it keeps you relevant early without giving anything up later, but I'm sure you can do better than Monk.

[Val666]

I just meant 1 monk level for wis to ac :c

Edit: Well I think Cleric 20 is my best bet for now.

[Extra Anchovies]

I just meant 1 monk level for wis to ac :c

Pick up a monk's belt, honestly. Don't spend a character level when you could instead spend gold.

[A_S]

Monk 2/X 3/Ur-Priest 1/Sacred Fist 10 (where X is one or more full BAB classes) is pretty respectable. Monk abilities + Wis synergy give pretty good defenses, Cleric buffs make up for Monk's lackluster offense, and you can pick up Travel Devotion to solve the Monk's "can't use fast movement and flurry in the same round" issue.

Not, like, totally unbelievably OP (gishing is pretty much never really better than just going all-out T1 caster), but it's a perfectly respectable gish build.

[Val666]

Monk 2/X 3/Ur-Priest 1/Sacred Fist 10 (where X is one or more full BAB classes) is pretty respectable. Monk abilities + Wis synergy give pretty good defenses, Cleric buffs make up for Monk's lackluster offense, and you can pick up Travel Devotion to solve the Monk's "can't use fast movement and flurry in the same round" issue.

Not, like, totally unbelievably OP (gishing is pretty much never really better than just going all-out T1 caster), but it's a perfectly respectable gish build.

Thanks for the build bro. Maybe Ur Priest 2 for turn/rebuke? I just want to crush the other player hard...like...really hard and Im not looking for pvp builds or nothing. Im going to crush him in everyway I can (that means stealing his in game girlfriend).

[Troacctid]

Passive-aggressively ruining someone's experience is probably not a recipe for good gaming. Perhaps you would be better off trying to talk the DM into letting ToM back in the game.

[A_S]

Thanks for the build bro. Maybe Ur Priest 2 for turn/rebuke?

Yes, I forgot you don't get it at level 1.

I just want to crush the other player hard...like...really hard and Im not looking for pvp builds or nothing. Im going to crush him in everyway I can (that means stealing his in game girlfriend).

Is this a, like, friendly and DM-approved in-character rivalry that you are both going to enjoy? If so, good on you, have fun playing it out. Unless it comes down to PvP, though (which you should try to make sure it doesn't unless the other player and the DM are both in on it), humiliating another character is usually more a matter of roleplaying than mechanics...saying just the right snarky thing at just the right time, actually stealing his in-game girlfriend (with your superior pick-up lines), etc.

If it's not a mutually-agreed-upon in-character rivalry, and you're actually trying to screw over one of the other players in your group, well...think long and hard about that. I'm not gonna say there's never a time when ruining somebody else's game experience is justified (where would we be without Old Man Henderson), but it's rarely going to go the way most people want it to, where you just display your superiority and then you've won. Instead, you're almost certainly going to ruin the game and your gaming group, if you don't just get kicked out first.

[Val666]

Yes, I forgot you don't get it at level 1.


Is this a, like, friendly and DM-approved in-character rivalry that you are both going to enjoy? If so, good on you, have fun playing it out. Unless it comes down to PvP, though (which you should try to make sure it doesn't unless the other player and the DM are both in on it), humiliating another character is usually more a matter of roleplaying than mechanics...saying just the right snarky thing at just the right time, actually stealing his in-game girlfriend (with your superior pick-up lines), etc.

If it's not a mutually-agreed-upon in-character rivalry, and you're actually trying to screw over one of the other players in your group, well...think long and hard about that. I'm not gonna say there's never a time when ruining somebody else's game experience is justified (where would we be without Old Man Henderson), but it's rarely going to go the way most people want it to, where you just display your superiority and then you've won. Instead, you're almost certainly going to ruin the game and your gaming group, if you don't just get kicked out first.

Don't worry, I won't be kicked out and the other player is a close friend. He knows I always have concrete builds that contribute to the party (and stomp his builds) but this time I wanted to play the Binder...so..it's just like a tantrum or something from me e.e still...I want to look over a cool build that can smack him down if he try something (because I always beat him at roleplaying too...and he had done it in the past). Im not trying to ruin anyone experience, and knowing the other player (which is the other player cousin, and hates him) and my DM (which is a long time friend) we will laugh a lot.

[ranagrande]

Do you include PHB2 in Core?

If so, Beguiler/Rainbow Servant would do nicely.

[Val666]

Do you include PHB2 in Core?

If so, Beguiler/Rainbow Servant would do nicely.

I'll have to ask. What do you have in mind o.o?

[A_S]

I'll have to ask. What do you have in mind o.o?

Beguiler (like Dread Necromancer and Warmage) knows its entire spell list, and casts any spell from that list spontaneously. Rainbow Servant adds various domain spells and (at level 10) the entire Cleric spell list to your spell list. It was written with Wizard/Sorcerer spell learning mechanics in mind, where you'd still have to spend spells known on the Cleric stuff to cast it, but if you enter via a full list caster like Beguiler, you just instantly get access to all the spells.

Also, the table indicates that it progresses 6/10 spellcasting, but the text of the class features says every level, and per the Rules Compendium, text trumps table.

Putting these together, at level 16 (Beguiler 6/Rainbow Servant 10 or similar), you suddenly cast spontaneously from the entire Beguiler list, the entire Cleric list, and the Good, Air, and Law domain lists, with no lost casting progression.

[aleucard]

Beguiler (like Dread Necromancer and Warmage) knows its entire spell list, and casts any spell from that list spontaneously. Rainbow Servant adds various domain spells and (at level 10) the entire Cleric spell list to your spell list. It was written with Wizard/Sorcerer spell learning mechanics in mind, where you'd still have to spend spells known on the Cleric stuff to cast it, but if you enter via a full list caster like Beguiler, you just instantly get access to all the spells.

Also, the table indicates that it progresses 6/10 spellcasting, but the text of the class features says every level, and per the Rules Compendium, text trumps table.

Putting these together, at level 16 (Beguiler 6/Rainbow Servant 10 or similar), you suddenly cast spontaneously from the entire Beguiler list, the entire Cleric list, and the Good, Air, and Law domain lists, with no lost casting progression.

That is just disgusting. There any room for other interesting things, maybe swapping out one of those Beguiler levels for Shadowcraft Mage to go full-tilt on the insanity (Whisper Gnome obviously, though you'd have to convince your DM to let Races of Stone slide)? There should be a couple caster classes that are good for five levels. Abjurant Champion may be an interesting option if you can find something appropriate on the lists you have access to, and that's right in the Complete Mage book.

[Val666]

Ok so I was talking to my friend which is going Bard (the cousin of the guy who will be stomped) and I decided to play a Sorcadin. Just with Core and Completes, which ideas do you guys have?

[SciChronic]

"A-Game Paladin" can cast arcane spells as divine, meaning arcane spell failure bypass. Plus you get to use inspire courage, and do your bard's job as well. But due to you not having access to MIC or BoED, your inspire will be kind of gimped, but your bard is under the same constraints.

[Val666]

"A-Game Paladin" can cast arcane spells as divine, meaning arcane spell failure bypass. Plus you get to use inspire courage, and do your bard's job as well. But due to you not having access to MIC or BoED, your inspire will be kind of gimped, but your bard is under the same constraints.

Yeah...just Core + Completes and PH II. The A-Game Paladin uses to many surcebooks this game is not allowing so...yeah :c

[ranagrande]

Sorcerer 4/Paladin 2/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8

Core and Completes, able to get four attacks and 9th level spells.

[Val666]

Sorcerer 4/Paladin 2/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8

Core and Completes, able to get four attacks and 9th level spells.

Well..yeah. Thats the standard build right? what about feats? e-e