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    Default Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Good is Not Nice
    A Paladin's Guide

    Image by Daniel Dos Santos

    "My good blade carves the casques of men,
    My tough lance thrusteth sure,
    My strength is as the strength of ten,
    Because my heart is pure."

    ó Lord Alfred Tennyson, "Sir Galahad"

    From the very first edition, the Paladin has been the holy protector of the innocent and the scourge of the guilty. Heavily inspired by chivalric tales and Arthurian legend, the Paladin is a class known for its high RP demands and frequent controversies around what it means to be lawful good. The LG requirement is no longer in place, however. Instead, warriors on the path must dedicate themselves completely to an Oath devoted to certain ideals.
    • The Oath of Devotion for the classic Paladin feel. Frequently lawful or part of a religious sect, they are excellent against fiends and the undead.
    • The Oath of the Ancients if you wanted to play a 4e Warden. Protectors of sacred groves as well as innocents, the often-chaotic good Paladins of the Oath of the Ancients devote themselves to protecting the Light from the darkness of the world, which is a pretty vague mission.
    • The Oath of Vengeance is for those of us who loved playing Avengers last edition. This Oath is dedicated to the single-minded pursuit of the guilty at the cost of all else. Extremely mobile and terrifyingly efficient, Paladins of this Oath will never stop pursuing their prey.



    Color Scheme
    • This is freaking amazing! It provides many options, or will do one thing extremely well.
    • This is really good, but not quite phenomenal.
    • This is good. It will regularly be useful, though it won't provide many tactical choices.
    • Bad. It will be extremely rare that it's useful at all.


    • Occasionally very useful, but limited in scope or applicability.


    Table of Contents:
    1. Crusading Essentials
    2. Candidates for the Oath
    3. Knightly Oaths
    4. Divine Gifts
    5. Feats and Multiclassing
    Last edited by EvilAnagram; 2016-04-26 at 11:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Good is Not Nice
    Crusading Essentials

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    Ability Scores
    • Strength: Almost all Paladins will want this for their primary stat.
    • Dexterity: DEX gives you a common save, some skills, and your AC in Medium Armor. However, some people may wish to build DEX-based Paladins, in which case this is sky-blue.
    • Constitution: Hit Points are good.
    • Intelligence: You won't need this very much. It's a good dump stat. Still, some saves and skill checks rely on INT.
    • Wisdom: Good for saves and skill checks.
    • Charisma: CHA is great for skill checks, and itís your spellcasting ability. If you can get it to twenty after your STR, do it.


    If you want to be a DEX-based Paladin, youíll be restricted to finesse weapons and bows, but you can pull it off. You can get your AC to a max of 21 with Medium Armor Master and the Defense Fighting style. However, there arenít really many advantages to doing this. A STR-based Paladin is probably the way to go for most people. CHA should be your second-highest stat no matter what.

    Class Features
    • Hit Dice: 1d10 per level. Hell yes. Same as a Fighter or Ranger. Only Barbarians have it better, and letís face it, Paladins look down on them. You are definitely melee material.
    • Armor Proficiency: You are proficient with all armor and shields. Go nuts.
    • Weapon Proficiency: You get all the weapons.
    • Saving Throws: WIS is pretty common, but itís also a dump-stat candidate. CHA isnít very common, but at least itís a stat youíll be beefing up.
    • Skills/Tools: You have no Tool proficiencies, but some of your skills are decent. Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, and Persuasion are great. Religion comes up occasionally, but if youíre a devotee to a god youíll want to take it. Medicine will quickly become overshadowed by powers, but itís still nice for bringing people back from the brink. You can take a feat that bumps this up to black.
    • Divine Sense: Useful if your campaign involves the undead or fiends. Give your party a heads-up when nasties are around. Not quite indispensible, but it can still be useful. Can also reveal the locations of invisible creatures.
    • Lay On Hands: Heal people without using a spell slot. I canít picture a world in which thatís not awesome. At level 20, your pool for this is 100 HP of no-cost healing.
    • Fighting Styles: Dueling and Protection are for the sword-and-boarders, depending on whether you want to be offensive or defensive (guess which is which). Great Weapon Fighting is obviously for those who want to wield bigger weapons, but it no longer works with smite, as per Crawdad's tweet. Defense is great for tanks, and youíre a great tank. Mariner is a new one from UA. It's not particularly strong, but the +1 AC and side options are nice if you're lightly armored. Really, all the options are worthwhile, depending on how you want to play.
    • Spellcasting: This is your bread and butter. You wonít be a full caster, but youíll stab full casters to death.
    • Divine Smite: Well, itís competitive with Sneak Attack at the cost of a spell slot. Itís quite often worth it.
    • Divine Health: Well, not every feature can be amazing. Still, it's better than wasting a slot on a Restoration.
    • Ability Score Improvement: Obviously good for obvious reasons. The only reason it's not sky blue is that the Fighter gets more.
    • Extra Attack: Again, it would be nice to have more.
    • Aura of Protection: This is amazing. If you plan on multiclassing, at least get to this point because holy butt this is good.
    • Aura of Courage: Continuing the trend of being awesome. Immunity to fear is always nice
    • Improved Divine Smite: Bonus radiant damage every time you hit at no cost. Yeah, thatís awesome.
    • Cleansing Touch: At level 14, you get to remove debuffs at the cost of an action. Paladins are officially unfair, and we havenít even gotten into the Oaths yet.


    So, Paladins are seriously awesome. They are an amazing support class that can tank and consistently deal solid damage. Of course, if you stray from your Oath, you wonít get to keep your abilities. Murder hobos need not apply.

    It's also worth pointing out that while Paladins are awesome, two Paladins aren't substantially better than one. What I mean is that while a Paladin in your party provides general buffs from which everyone benefits, the auras of two Paladins don't stack. Some overlapping class features get wasted. A Paladin and a Monk working together and to each other's strengths is much better than two Paladins working in tandem. Differentiated parties are often the most successful ones.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Good is Not Nice
    Candidates for the Oath

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    NOTE: If you want to use a particular race, do so. Optimization doesnít help as much in 5e as it does in others, and all the races offer you something fun.

    Player's Handbook
    • Hill Dwarf: You boost your CON, which is good, and your WIS, which is okay. You also get resistance to poison and some extra HP, which is nice. Still, you need that STR.
    • Mountain Dwarf: Plus 2 to STR and CON? Well, thatís awesome all by itself, but it has more dwarfy features to go with it.
    • High Elf: All Elves get great features, but thereís no Ability score cohesion here at all, and you donít really need cantrips based off your dump stat.
    • Wood Elf: A DEX-based Wood Elf Paladin wouldnít be terrible. The WIS is always useful, as are the basic Elf features and the boosts to Hide and Speed.
    • Drow: Perfect Ability scores for a DEX Paladin, plus Improved Darkvision and CHA-based spells! Sunlight Sensitivity sucks, but you should be able to get around it most of the time. The biggest drawback would probably be all the racism youíd face everywhere you went.
    • Lightfoot Halfling: Perfect Ability scores for a DEX Paladin, and you have Lucky, Brave, and Halfling Nimbleness. You can be the stealth Pally.
    • Stout Halfling: If the Mountain Dwarf had one less CON bonus and was stupidly Lucky, youíd have a Stout Halfling. The big drawback to both Halflings is your limited weapon choices, but youíll be DEX-based anyways.
    • Human: Plus one to every stat? Sure.
    • Variant Human: Feats are fun.
    • Dragonborn: You get stat boosts to your primary and secondary. Plus, you get a CON-based breath attack and damage resistance. This is awesome!
    • Forest Gnome:Hereís the thing, Gnomes get serious save advantages. Youíll get targeted by a lot of spells in your tanking career, and it might be worth going Gnome for that reason alone, especially if you happened to roll great stats and donít need a stat boost.
    • Rock Gnome: Same as the Forest Gnome. Both of them have features not related to saves, but those features donít really matter.
    • Half-Elf: You get a Charisma bonus and a boost to your two favorite stats. Add in Skill Versatility and you have a great choice.
    • Half-Orc: Half-Orcs make great melee combatants. You are a melee combatant. Everything they give you helps you in that regard.
    • Tiefling: CHA bonuses are always worth it, especially when theyíre accompanied by the Tieflingís powers. This race also has some very conflicted RP choices that I personally find intriguing.


    Dungeon Master's Guide:
    • Eladrin: Fey Step is nice, but INT isn't great.


    Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide
    • Duergar: The STR, CON, and spells are great, but the saving throw business is icing on this delicious cake. As with Drow, avoid sunlight because it makes you terrible.
    • Deep Gnome: As with the other Gnome options, if you're willing to forgo ability boosts to get nice save bonuses, you can pick this.
    • Ghostwise Halfling: The basic Halfling package is good, but you don't need WIS.


    Volo's Guide to Monsters
    • Aasimar: The Charisma alone is great, but the powers are fantastic. Each subrace pairs extremely well with any paladin oath. Well, Oathbreakers only really pair with the Fallen Aasimar, but otherwise it's all fine.
    • Firbolg: They're not the best, but their invisibility jaunt is pretty damn nice.
    • Goliath: STR, CON, and damage reduction on a short rest.
    • Kenku: They don't really offer anything that helps a Paladin.
    • Lizardfolk: The Bite is nice, and it makes a pretty decent Paladin. A Lizardfolk will typically be a better Druid or Cleric than a Paladin.
    • Tabaxi: Excellent for a DEX Paladin who wants to keep mobile.
    • Triton: Well, getting a boost to all of your important stats is very nice, but the control spells and damage resistance send it over the top.


    Volo's Monstrous Races
    • Bugbear: The extra damage and STR work pretty well, and the reach is alright. It'a a lot of okay features that come together to be pretty decent.
    • Goblin: It has okay stats for a Dex build.
    • Hobgoblin: The extra chance to hit is nice, but the stats just don't flow.
    • Kobold: I'm sorry, but the child of the Home Alone kid and an iguana make a pretty bad Paladin.
    • Orc: Aggressive is pretty nice for any melee character, and the boost to STR and CON is nice.
    • Yuan-Ti Pureblood: If you can get over the whole "definitely evil" thing, it's not without its charms. It's not the best, by far, but it's not terrible.


    Elemental Evil
    • Aarakocra: Unless you want to go pure DEX and wear light armor, don't pick this option. It doesn't provide much for Paladins.
    • Genasi: All the Genasi options provide a CON boost and casting with CON.

    Spoiler: Genasi Subtypes
    Show
    • Air Genasi: Solid DEX build with some mobility options.
    • Earth Genasi: STR and CON boosts work well, as do the mobility options.
    • Fire Genasi: No boost to a primary stat, but you get resistance to a common damage type and you can cast Wizard spells with CON.
    • Water Genasi: Acid resistance and CON make this decent.


    Plane Shift Zendikar
    Holy crap, it's a Magic/D&D crossover. A lot of the races in this supplement don't fit the races in traditional D&D settings that well, so be sure to talk to your DM before utilizing them.
    • Human: About what you'd expect.
    • Kor: Ghostwise Halfling drops psychic shenanigans for a climb speed.
    • Merfolk: The Charisma boost across the board is nice, but INT and WIS are not important to you at all.
    • Vampire: It makes sense that Vampires don't really offer much to a Paladin, save Charisma.
    • Goblin: A boost to Constitution and two resistances is going to be nice for any class.
    • Elf: Too much Wisdom. Tajura get that Charisma goodness, but not much else. Juraga are basically Wood Elves, and Mul Daya are Wood Elves with Wis casting and a STR boost. Solid, but not impressive.


    Unearthed Arcana are official homebrews, not officially released like the other supplements.

    Eberron
    • Changeling: Surprisingly enough, Changelings make decent DEX Paladins. They get boosts to two primaries, and they have interesting secondary options.
    • Shifters: Shifters tend to be okay as Dex Paladins.

    Spoiler: Shifter Subtypes
    Show
    • Beasthide Shifter: A solid option. The bonuses to AC, CON, and DEX make a great Paladin.
    • Cliffwalk Shifter: Your DEX is good, but that's it. Not terrible, but less interesting than any other DEX option.
    • Longstride: Another pure Dex option, but with a cool mobility option. Wizards need a spell slot to get this mobility.
    • Longtooth Shifter: You can go either STR or DEX with this option, and you get a solid attack with a free grapple.
    • Razorclaw Shifter: This is actually a really good DEX option. You can take the Dueling fighting style and Tavern Brawler, then you essentially have the benefits of both Dueling and Two Weapon Fighting.
    • Wildhunt Shifter: This race provides a lot of awesome bonuses to WIS abilities. You do not need these bonuses.

    • Warforged: Good ability bonuses, a bonus to AC, and Living Construct bonuses.


    Waterborne
    • Minotaur: You get a bonus to STR, and you get some cool attack options. Great option.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Good is Not Nice
    Knightly Oaths

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    The Oath of a Paladin empowers him, but also binds him. Breaking your Oath will have grave consequences that range from having to undergo penance to losing your Paladin powers completely. Choose well.

    Oath of Devotion: Protect the Innocent
    Adherents to the Oath of Devotion will find themselves empowered to face truly evil foes while protecting your allies better than any other class.
    • Oath Spells: All of these are quality spells. Most of them are solid buffs or healing spells, with a couple powerful damaging ones to boot.
    • Channel Divinity: Sacred Weapon is amazing at lower levels, but doesn't scale. Turn the Unholy is solid control.
    • Aura of Devotion: You can never be charmed while conscious, and neither can your nearby allies. This can turn an entire encounter in your favor.
    • Purity of Spirit: A free passive protection against some of the nastiest villains you'll ever come across. Yeah, that's nice.
    • Holy Nimbus: Gain advantage against spells and make it painful to be near you. This is nice. Combines well with Sentinel.


    Oath of the Ancients: Defend the Light
    • Followers of the Oath of the Ancients will find themselves adept at combating outsiders and mages, and eventually they will become nigh-unkillable juggernauts.
    • Oath Spells: You have great options here. You also have Tree Stride and Speak with Animals. It doesn't cost anything to keep them, though, and you get much better spells, too.
    • Channel Divinity: Nature's Wrath does less than Ensnaring Strike and has more limited uses. Turn the Faithless offers solid control.
    • Aura of Warding: Resist all spell damage forever. This is borderline unfair.
    • Undying Sentinel: This is definitely unfair. You can refuse to fall unconscious once a day.
    • Elder Champion: Holy balls this is unfair. You get regen 10 and some serious buffs to your spells.


    Oath of Vengeance: Avenge the Helpless
    Those who swear the Oath of Vengeance will find themselves empowered to take the lives of their enemies. They will dole out punishment swiftly and relentlessly.
    • Oath Spells: If your job is to hunt down evildoers, these spells accomplish that. Bane is a nasty debuff, Hunter's Mark piles on more damage, Banishment removes an enemy from your plane of existence, Protection from Energy gives you a nice resistance, and all the other spells make it easier for you to keep your foe from escaping.
    • Channel Divinity: Abjure Enemy keeps it from escaping, and Vow of Enmity makes it easier to kill. Again, great for a dedicated damage dealer.
    • Relentless Avenger: Keep your enemy from escaping your wrath.
    • Soul of Vengeance: Again, pile on that damage.
    • Avenging Angel: Sprout wings, terrify your enemies, and kill them with advantage. Because Good is Not Nice.


    Oath of the Crown: For King and Country
    Some Paladins swear to uphold the laws of their nation as they enter the ranks of a knightly order. They are the bulwark that protects civilization from the chaos that would consume it. The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide brings us this oath.
    • Oath Spells: I mean, they're perfectly fine spells, but all but two are already Paladin spells. However, Warding Bond is a fantastic protective spell to help out your fleshier buddies, and Spirit Guardians can be nasty.
    • Channel Divinity: Champion Challenge is arguably the stickiest tank ability in 5e, plus a massive heal with Turn the Tide. Unfortunately, While Turn the Tide starts out strong, it doesn't scale.
    • Divine Allegiance: Take damage so your buddy won't have to. Not terrible.
    • Unyielding Spirit: Excellent protection against effects you probably won't need constant protection from.
    • Exhalted Champion: A slew of decent bonuses that come very late to the party.



    Oathbreaker: Terrorize the Masses
    Note: This is a Villainous Class Option from the Dungeon Master's Guide and specifically requires DM approval. It is highly unlikely that a DM will allow you to start from level one with the intention of entering this class, and it's bad RPing to boot. It is an exclusively evil option.
    A fallen Paladin, the Oathbreaker lives to enforce his will on the helpless. He will wreak great horrors on those who oppose his will.
    • Oath Spells: You're a nasty person, and you have some nasty spells. A number of them deal damage, but it's often less than a smite at that level. Certain spells inflict massive debuffs, allow fantastic control, or simply allow you to pursue options you otherwise could not.
    • Channel Divinity: Control Undead allows you to turn a threat into an ally under your control with a single save, while Dreadful Aspect is essentially a Dragon's Frightful Presence. Forcing your enemies to have disadvantage while you hack away at them is an excellent ability.
    • Aura of Hate: Adding Charisma to damage is amazing so long as you're not fighting fiends or undead.
    • Supernatural Resistance: The only problem with this is that by the time you get it, most of the damage you'll be worrying about will come from magical sources.
    • Dread Lord: This is a perfect example of why this class was originally intended for boss level villains. This is ridiculously OP.


    For more about Oath Spells, see Divine Gifts.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Good is Not Nice
    Divine Gifts

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    While Paladin's don't have the same potential as full casters, their spells are excellent at healing and buffing their allies and increasing their damage output.

    A note on Oath Spells: Oath Spells are separate from your list of prepared spells for the day. They still use up spell slots when cast, however.

    Spoiler: 1st Level Spells
    Show
    • Bane*: On an RP note, there's a really dark component for making your Vengeance Paladin edgier. It places a decent debuff on your targets. It's definitely worth the spell slot, and not having to prepare it is a bonus.
    • Bless: Basically the opposite of Bane. Give your whole party a bonus to hit and to save.
    • Command**: A clever player could use it to turn an entire encounter around. Less clever players won't know what to do with it. It's a worthwhile pick since you can completely disrupt your enemy's turn.
    • Compelled Duel**: Disrupt your enemies' plans and seriously up your tanking potential.
    • Cure Wounds: Heal up to 45 points of damage if cast as a 5th level spell. It's pretty nice at lower levels when you really don't have too much healing potential. At higher levels, it's still a 45% increase in your healing potential.
    • Detect Evil and Good: You already have Divine Sense.
    • Detect Magic: Leave this to your wizard. You don't have many spell slots, and this one isn't one you should prepare most days.
    • Detect Poison and Disease: Just like Detect Evil and Good, it's nice at times, and it's worth preparing when you think you might need it.
    • Divine Favor: Extra 1d4 per hit. It's a weaker version of Hunter's Mark, but you cast it on yourself, not the target, which is a plus. Also, radiant damage helps against plenty of enemies.
    • Ensnaring Strike*: Damage your enemy and lock down their movement. Solid spell that you don't have to prepare each day.
    • Hellish Rebuke*: While it's nice for Tieflings, and reaction casting is fun, the problem with this spell is that a smite does more damage, so it isn't worth an actual spell slot. The only time you should cast this is if your enemy is vulnerable to fire.
    • Inflict Wounds*: Again, a smite will simply deal more damage.
    • Heroism: A decent spell that buffs an ally and makes him or her immune to fear.
    • Hunter's Mark*: You don't have to prepare it, and it's a solid damage boost against the target of your Channel Divinity powers. A decent, single-target boost to the damage of Divine Favor.
    • Protection from Evil and Good**: It's okay. The buff is decent, but it only works against a limited pool of enemies. Of course, it's a group of enemies you're likely to encounter, especially as a Paladin. It's terrible as an Oath Spell since it's already on the Paladin spell list, and level 15 Paladins have this benefit without the spell.
    • Purify Food and Drink: Again, situational at best. You might prepare it before a shady dinner, but not on a regular day.
    • Sanctuary*: Protect an ally when they're hurting. It would rate higher, but your warded ally won't be able to harm your enemies. Still, give them some breathing room.
    • Searing Smite: It's not bad, and it's amazing when you need to take out something weak to fire or with a weak CON save.
    • Shield of Faith: Decent buff that takes concentration, and it lasts a decent amount of time.
    • Speak with Animals*: The only thing working in its favor is the fact that you won't have to prepare it. Otherwise, it's totally situational. Can combine well with Command.
    • Thunderous Smite: The damage boost isn't much, but the effects are nice and there's only one gate to dealing it.
    • Wrathful Smite: Less damage than Thunderous Smite, but the effect is arguably stronger. If you use a battlemat, better.



    Spoiler: 2nd Level Spells
    Show
    • Aid: A good buff to a weak ally that scales.
    • Branding Smite: Like Thunderous Smite, but it scales and reveals invisible creatures. Not bad, but it's a bit silly to make a spell to reveal invisible creatures that depends on hitting with a melee attack.
    • Crown of Madness*: Some major flaws should have you questioning the value of this spell. To summarize, it's actually difficult to land hits with this, your enemy has plenty of chances to save, and you'll be giving up some damage dealing potential.
    • Darkness*: Occasionally very useful. If you ever need to escape some vicious attacks, or you want to shift the tactical makeup of the field, make like a squid and ink.
    • Find Steed: If you want a steed, this power is just about mandatory. You gain an intelligent steed you don't have to make rolls to control and who obeys your commands. It's a solid power.
    • Hold Person*: Only Oath of Vengeance Paladins really need this, and they get it without having to prepare it. And let's face it, when your goal is to kill an evildoer, keeping him from escaping is a good idea.
    • Lesser Restoration**: Very nice spell, and the Oath of Devotion Paladin doesn't need to prepare it.
    • Locate Object: You know the drill. Prepare this if you know you'll need it, but you won't usually need it.
    • Magic Weapon: Necessary, up until you find a magic weapon of our own.
    • Misty Step*: Teleports are nice, and an Oath of Vengeance Paladin can get a lot of use out of it.
    • Moonbeam*: A small burst (3x3 squares on a grid) that deals radiant damage. It's okay, and it's a must against shapechangers. It's a great way to deal with were-anythings, and it doesn't take any preparation.
    • Protection from Poison: Cure poison. Protect people from poison damage. Dwarven Paladins don't really understand why this spell exists.
    • Warding Bond*: Reduce damage for a buddy and boost his defenses, but you'll take damage in his stead. Solid protective spell.
    • Zone of Truth**: It's situationally useful. If you think you'll be interrogating someone, definitely prepare this.



    Spoiler: 3rd Level Spells
    Show
    • Animate Dead*: Not as abusable as some like to think, especially for a Paladin. Still, you'll be able to create allies, which is worthwhile.
    • Aura of Vitality**: Definitely your best healing power so far.
    • Beacon of Hope*: Another awesome spell, though it would be better if you could stack it with Aura of Vitality.
    • Bestow Curse*: On the one hand, Concentration spells tend to be terrible for melee combatants. On the other, Paladin saves are great, and the effects are very nice.
    • Blinding Smite: Highest damage of any smite so far, and blinding your enemy is a nice debuff.
    • Create Food and Water: If you're starving, you can prepare this, eat, and never prepare it again.
    • Crusader's Mantle: Buff all friendlies with extra damage. If your party can summon a lot of creatures, this gets better.
    • Daylight: Quite a lot of people will never be in a situation in which they'll use this. Prepare it when you fight Drow.
    • Dispel Magic**: Everyone needs this at some point, but hopefully your Wizard will have it prepared.
    • Elemental Weapon: It's a good spell, and you can tailor the damage to whatever your enemy is weak against.
    • Haste*: Continuing this level's trend of being awesome, this spell is a fantastic buff.
    • Magic Circle: It has its uses, and not all of them are totally situational.
    • Plant Growth*: Good for losing tails or helping out locals. It's still situational, but it handles those situations really, really well, and you don't have to prepare it.
    • Protection from Energy*: Probably the best Protection spell. Choose a damage type, and take less damage from it.
    • Remove Curse: You'll probably need this at some point, but you'll be able to take the time to prepare it when you need it.
    • Revivify: You'll definitely want to keep this on hand.
    • Spirit Guardians*: Solid AoE that keeps your foes from running off. Excellent spell



    Spoiler: 4th Level Spells
    Show
    • Aura of Life: Another beautiful aura for Paladins. When you're facing a necrotic damage, you should use this.
    • Aura of Purity: Again, when you're facing this kind of damage, you should pop this aura. And the advantage on saving throws is great.
    • Banishment**: It's a decent power. You get to remove an enemy from your plane of existence with a single spell. Nice.
    • Blight*: Deals more damage than a 4th level smite.
    • Beacon of Hope*:
    • Death Ward: It's a decent power, and it's worth preparing, but it's not the best, and it replicates an Oath of Ancients power.
    • Confusion*: Excellent table control.
    • Dimension Door*: Better teleportation.
    • Freedom of Movement*: Situational, but you don't have to prepare it, so yay!
    • Guardian of Faith*: Good damage and solid control. Also, the fluff is pretty awesome.
    • Ice Storm*: Quite strong for a Paladin AoE. That's all there is to say about it.
    • Locate Creature: Not an important power. But, if you need it for the day, you can prepare it.
    • Staggering Smite: Blows away every other smite up until this point.
    • Stoneskin*: Damage resistance is a good thing, especially when you're the tank.



    Spoiler: 5th Level Spells
    Show
    • Banishing Smite: Deal tons of damage, and if you bring your target down to under 50 HP then you banish it. Awesome.
    • Circle of Power**: Basically, another aura. This one has amazing effects.
    • Commune*: You get to talk to your god. It's good for when you really need to talk to your god. It's a situational benefit, but it might be exactly what you need.
    • Commune with Nature*: Commune for hippies. Same situational benefits.
    • Contagion*: It's simply a fantastic spell with excellent potential.
    • Destructive Wave: Basically, an AoE smite that deals 10d6 in a giant area.
    • Dispel Evil and Good: Unfortunately, most of the extraplanar beings you would use this on have high CHA and Legendary Resistance. The Break Enchantment aspect could help a lot, though.
    • Dominate Person*: Another excellent spell with massive control and RP potential.
    • Flame Strike*: A solid AoE that can deal okay damage. There are better spells, but this one's not bad.
    • Geas**: This spell is a great big pile of pure potential. If you don't use it, you have no imagination.
    • Hold Monster*: Hold Person for monsters. Duh. It's worthwhile.
    • Raise Dead: You will need this every once in a while. The material cost is high, though.
    • Scrying*: Gather information at the cost of a spell slot. Usually, it's not worth one of your highest slots when you can deal damage with them.
    • Tree Stride*: Hippie teleporting. It will probably come in handy if you fight in a forest.



    *Only available through Oath Spells.
    **Available both as Oath Spell and as regular Paladin spell.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Good is Not Nice
    Feats and Multiclassing

    Image by Dani Lopez

    Spoiler: Multiclassing
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    • Barbarian: Unarmored Defense is nice, but unnecessary with Plate. Plus, your secondary should be CHA, not CON. And you can't take a shield. Still, Rage, Danger Sense, and the Bear Totem path also make this a solid choice.
    • Bard: Spellcasting synergy! I love spellcasting synergy! A great choice for upping your casting potential.
    • Cleric: Despite the religious overtones, these two don't complement well. WIS is a potential dump stat, but if you pump it for Perception this could be okay.
    • Druid: I wouldn't. There are just too many better options for upping your casting.
    • Fighter: The only bad thing about this is losing your level 20 Paladin Feature. In return, you get Second Wind, Action Surge, Extra Attacks, and a Fighting Style. It's just a great choice.
    • Monk: For most Paladins, Monks utilize two of their dump stats. Monks are great. Pally/Monks are not.
    • Ranger: Your spellcasting abilities don't mesh. Probably not worth it when there are better options.
    • Rogue: If you're a DEX-based Pally, absolutely worth it in so many awesome ways. If not, it's still okay.
    • Sorcerer: There's casting synergy here, but the concepts don't mesh very well. Sorcery is very blasty and controlly, while Pally magic focuses on buffs and debuffs. Still, if you want to up your casting, this is a solid choice.
    • Warlock: Want to up your blasting potential? This works. It works really well. If you build it right, it can work exceptionally well.
    • Wizard: Don't cast spells with your dump stat.



    Spoiler: Feats
    Show
    • Alert: If you multiclass into Rogue and take the Assassin route this goes sky-blue.
    • Athlete: It makes you a better skill monkey, but that's it.
    • Actor: You already have solid CHA, so you might want to give it a shot.
    • Charger: It's okay. You get to charge, just like you did in the last system. Nothing special.
    • Crossbow Expert: Most Paladins won't be using crossbows, but if you're going to then get this.
    • Defensive Duelist: Very nice for any melee character.
    • Dual Wielder: You have no use for this.
    • Dungeon Delver: Great if your DM is a bit trap-happy.
    • Durable: It's okay. Nothing special, but it's a good half-feat bonus.
    • Elemental Adept: More of a full-caster feat.
    • Grappler: Good if paired with Tavern Brawler, but unless you want to wrestle people, I wouldn't get it.
    • Great Weapon Master: If you want to wield a two-handed weapon, get this.
    • Healer: You can improve your ability to heal, but not by much.
    • Heavily Armored: Don't give up an Ability point for a bonus you already have.
    • Heavy Armor Master: Almost all Paladins should consider this.
    • Inspiring Leader: You have the Charisma, and the buff is sweet.
    • Keen Mind: There's nothing wrong with it, but there's also nothing particularly good about it.
    • Lightly Armored: You already have the benefit.
    • Linguist: In my experience, knowing the right language at the right time can save your ass.
    • Lucky: This is an exceptionally powerful feat. Definitely worth taking.
    • Mage Slayer: Having trouble with mages? Use, Mage Slayer!
    • Magic Initiate: Expand your casting ability. I like it.
    • Martial Adept: Might be worth it if you multiclass into Battle Master. Otherwise, I'd skip it. 1d6 per short rest is just not worth giving up the feat.
    • Medium Armor Master: Solid if you don't want to go with Plate, but you're looking at some serious MAD here.
    • Mobile: It's a very nice group of passive benefits.
    • Moderately Armored: You already have the benefit.
    • Mounted Combatant: Obviously, this is only good if you are frequently mounted.
    • Observant: It's a great bonus to two skills that are extremely important to a party.
    • Polearm Master: If you're wielding a polearm, get this. Great synergy with Sentinel.
    • Resilient: For a single ability point, you gain a save proficiency. That's awesome.
    • Ritual Caster: Save your spell slots and gain more spells. This is great!
    • Savage Attacker: More damage is a good thing.
    • Sentinel: The tankiest feat you ever did see! Absolutely necessary for the Oath of Devotion's final feature, and works wonderfully with polearm master.
    • Sharpshooter: You belong in melee, not at range.
    • Shield Master: A good pick if you use a shield.
    • Skilled: Try your hand at (skill) monkeying around.
    • Skulker: Sneaky stuff can always work to your advantage. Better for a DEXbased pally.
    • Spell Sniper: This is not made for a Paladin.
    • Tavern Brawler: This is only good if you're playing around with an unarmed character concept.
    • Tough: It's a fairly good benefit, and it ends up giving you 40 HP at level 20.
    • War Caster: Makes casting in combat much, much easier.
    • Weapon Master: You already have proficiency with everything.



    Feel free to leave comments/suggestions/insults after this post.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Well holy sweet killing machine, nice summary EvilAnagram!! Look forward to more... as my choice IS a Tiefling Paladin (of Vengeance) for the game starting next month.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Thanks for this!

    An Oath of Vengeance Tiefling IMNSHO has awesome RP potential. Everyone is scared of you to begin with, and you are a relentless killer of people who need killing, which everyone has to ensure does not include them.
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

    According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
    http://easydamus.com/character.html

    I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    I like it! Still going over the options but it looks right.

    Might be worth changing the mountain dwarf to black? They're not, great, but outside of the wisdom bonus all of their benefits are relevant, and they're really tanky if that's the goal.

    Thanks for putting in the time for this!

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    Thanks for this!

    An Oath of Vengeance Tiefling IMNSHO has awesome RP potential. Everyone is scared of you to begin with, and you are a relentless killer of people who need killing, which everyone has to ensure does not include them.
    You're welcome!

    And yeah, Tiefling Paladins can get pretty dark. It's a lot of fun to play a religious devotee who has been marked as a fiend, but still wants to do good in his life. And when the ostracized and oppressed dedicate themselves to killing evildoers, the people who would have gladly strung them up tend to think twice about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by madwolf10 View Post
    Well holy sweet killing machine, nice summary EvilAnagram!! Look forward to more... as my choice IS a Tiefling Paladin (of Vengeance) for the game starting next month.
    Thanks! I fully expect it to take me a week or so to finish the spell list on account of grad school, but I'll finish it when I can.

    I played a Tiefling Pally in 4e, and the RP potential is phenomenal! One of my favorite characters.

    Although the 4e version of a OaV was an Avenger, which is a bit different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cambrian View Post
    I like it! Still going over the options but it looks right.

    Might be worth changing the mountain dwarf to black? They're not, great, but outside of the wisdom bonus all of their benefits are relevant, and they're really tanky if that's the goal.

    Thanks for putting in the time for this!
    If you meant the Hill Dwarf, I thought about it and decided to do just that.

    And you're welcome!

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    The problem I'm seeing is that all the choices are good or great, with very few worse than black. Wouldn't it be better to cut down on the Great and add more Red and Black? This would make it easier to browse through the relevant points (What's good or bad). It's relative anyway, so there should be no issue there.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrin33 View Post
    The problem I'm seeing is that all the choices are good or great, with very few worse than black. Wouldn't it be better to cut down on the Great and add more Red and Black? This would make it easier to browse through the relevant points (What's good or bad). It's relative anyway, so there should be no issue there.
    Yes, I agree with Ferrin. You should narrow down the "awesome" choices.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrin33 View Post
    The problem I'm seeing is that all the choices are good or great, with very few worse than black. Wouldn't it be better to cut down on the Great and add more Red and Black? This would make it easier to browse through the relevant points (What's good or bad). It's relative anyway, so there should be no issue there.
    I see my job in making a guide as informing people of their choices as objectively as possible. If I make the OoA Oath Spells Purple because two of the spells aren't that useful, while all the others are, I'm doing a disservice to the reader. I would be falsely suggesting that the spells available to the Oath of Ancients Paladin aren't that useful or are only situationally useful. The OoA spells are great, but not as good as those of the other Oaths, and the coloring reflects this. If I were to do what you suggest, I would be misinforming the reader.

    I was very clear in the first post what the distinctions between color are, and I fully intend to stick with them. I'm not going to force a bell curve simply because people think there should be one. If a reader really wanted an Oath of Vengeance Paladin, but mistakenly thought that he would be worse of with one because I narrowed the focus of what counts as awesome, and he ended up choosing a different build because of it, I would be hurting his character concept simply because you don't want there to be too much blue.

    If it makes you feel better, the Feats and Multiclassing section has much more red and purple, and the spell list, when it goes up, will have more varied coloring as well.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    I see my job in making a guide as informing people of their choices as objectively as possible. If I make the OoA Oath Spells Purple because two of the spells aren't that useful, while all the others are, I'm doing a disservice to the reader. I would be falsely suggesting that the spells available to the Oath of Ancients Paladin aren't that useful or are only situationally useful. The OoA spells are great, but not as good as those of the other Oaths, and the coloring reflects this. If I were to do what you suggest, I would be misinforming the reader.

    I was very clear in the first post what the distinctions between color are, and I fully intend to stick with them. I'm not going to force a bell curve simply because people think there should be one. If a reader really wanted an Oath of Vengeance Paladin, but mistakenly thought that he would be worse of with one because I narrowed the focus of what counts as awesome, and he ended up choosing a different build because of it, I would be hurting his character concept simply because you don't want there to be too much blue.

    If it makes you feel better, the Feats and Multiclassing section has much more red and purple, and the spell list, when it goes up, will have more varied coloring as well.
    Power is relative, so the best way to rate it is to have Black be the average power to show as many differences as possible. Making everything Good or Great is a waste of color and only makes things harder to read. The outliers(those above or below the average), should be colored.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrin33 View Post
    Power is relative, so the best way to rate it is to have Black be the average power to show as many differences as possible. Making everything Good or Great is a waste of color and only makes things harder to read. The outliers(those above or below the average), should be colored.
    It is relative. It's relative to every other class and to other powers. The standard class features simply happen to be exceptional when compared to other classes. That's not an exaggeration, either. The auras are insanely powerful, especially with scaling. All of the Oaths happen to have excellent abilities that blow away other class features. There happen to be no races that cannot make decent Paladins.

    However, Paladins only have basic access to skills, so that's black. Divine Health and Great Weapon Fighting and Divine Sense are useful, but not exceptional, so they're black. It's not my fault that Paladin Class Features are strong, but it would be my fault if I failed to show that they are.

    However, if you have a specific suggestion, such as one feature you think is overrated, then by all means let me know.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    With regards to color. I think Drow should be downgraded due to Sunlight Sensitivity being a huge negative for a class that relies on hitting with a weapon.

    Regular Human should be downgraded because it doesn't give anything that synergies with Pally, and there are far better selections you can make.

    Armor and weapon prof should be regular blue nto sky blue as other classes get these proffs and they do not give the class a huge power boost in and ov themselves.

    Athletics has come up as sky blue in most other character guides and I tend to agree whereas the social skills Intimidate and Persuasion vary more from campaign to campaign.

    The sky blue for 100pts of healing in the Lay on Hands ability is confusing. When does this scaling ability go from simply good to great? Is that when I should stop taking pally levels? Makes it unclear how useful the ability is.

    Can't look at Oaths right now, but all of the abilities that requier you to use divine channel have opportunity cost associated with them. Which is the best and worst use of it? Are some so situationel they might never come up? I really don't think there are that many sky blue options with oaths.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by DireSickFish View Post
    With regards to color. I think Drow should be downgraded due to Sunlight Sensitivity being a huge negative for a class that relies on hitting with a weapon.
    I'll consider it, but there's always the simple option of being nocturnal, and in Underdark campaigns this doesn't matter at all. Still, I might not have factored that in.

    Quote Originally Posted by DireSickFish View Post
    Regular Human should be downgraded because it doesn't give anything that synergies with Pally, and there are far better selections you can make.
    If you have a lot of odd Ability scores, regular human is great. Worth considering though.

    Quote Originally Posted by DireSickFish View Post
    Armor and weapon prof should be regular blue nto sky blue as other classes get these proffs and they do not give the class a huge power boost in and ov themselves.
    They don't give a huge power boost in and of themselves, but they are the best you can get. You cannot have more proficiencies in armor and weapons than the Paladin does.

    Quote Originally Posted by DireSickFish View Post
    Athletics has come up as sky blue in most other character guides and I tend to agree whereas the social skills Intimidate and Persuasion vary more from campaign to campaign.
    Athletics is useful, but social skills can drastically alter campaigns, and with CHA as a main statistic Paladins are exceptionally capable of utilizing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by DireSickFish View Post
    The sky blue for 100pts of healing in the Lay on Hands ability is confusing. When does this scaling ability go from simply good to great? Is that when I should stop taking pally levels? Makes it unclear how useful the ability is.
    It's a vague line, but at level 20 healing 100 HP without even spending a spell slot is huge. And no, you should stop taking Pally levels when you feel you have more to gain from other classes than the Pally.

    Quote Originally Posted by DireSickFish View Post
    Can't look at Oaths right now, but all of the abilities that requier you to use divine channel have opportunity cost associated with them. Which is the best and worst use of it? Are some so situationel they might never come up? I really don't think there are that many sky blue options with oaths.
    There is an opportunity cost with the Channel Divinities, and that's factored in. None of them are so situational that they aren't likely to come up, and the few that are situational rely on common situations (fighting a spellcaster, fighting undead/fiends/fey at higher levels). They're just good.

    Those were some great notes, though. Thanks!
    Last edited by EvilAnagram; 2014-10-07 at 10:14 PM.

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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    What's this about Sacred Weapon not scaling? Not only does it actually scale (every time your Charisma increases), it's an ability that doesn't need to scale. AC is one of the things that doesn't get much of an increase as levels and CR go up, so +Charisma to attack rolls is always an amazing ability.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by JRutterbush View Post
    What's this about Sacred Weapon not scaling? Not only does it actually scale (every time your Charisma increases), it's an ability that doesn't need to scale. AC is one of the things that doesn't get much of an increase as levels and CR go up, so +Charisma to attack rolls is always an amazing ability.
    Once you have other options for gaining a magic weapon, it loses some of its use, but is still great. And if you had 18 CHA at level 1 and 20 CHA at level 12, it hasn't scaled much.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    I'
    They don't give a huge power boost in and of themselves, but they are the best you can get. You cannot have more proficiencies in armor and weapons than the Paladin does.
    It is the best armor/proficiencies that you can get true, but that does not itself make it awesome. You would need to downgrade abilities like the Pallys spell-casting then because he doesn't get the most or best spells. Minor abilities, even if they are the best you can get, should only be considered awesome if it's awesome to have them.

    Being an elf gets you a martial weapon and the damage potential of simple weapons isn't -that- much lower. Fullplate is a better benefit as it's the best armor you can get with-ought an unarmored defense class ability(and those require high stats to be useful where plate only needs a str 15). You yourself note that a Dex pally is a viable build so the armor wouldn't be useful there. And if you are multiclassing into pally they -don't- get plate. So not all pallys will get it if they start a career somewhere else.

    Thanks for writing the guide! I like it, just don't agree with everything in it.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by DireSickFish View Post
    It is the best armor/proficiencies that you can get true, but that does not itself make it awesome. You would need to downgrade abilities like the Pallys spell-casting then because he doesn't get the most or best spells. Minor abilities, even if they are the best you can get, should only be considered awesome if it's awesome to have them.
    I have to compare a feature to the things that are comparable to it.

    With Spellcasting, I have to judge it by how it allows the Paladin to act effectively in combat. With Proficiencies, I have to compare it to the proficiencies of other classes because that's all I have to go on.

    Quote Originally Posted by DireSickFish View Post
    Thanks for writing the guide! I like it, just don't agree with everything in it.
    Ha! No problem. Thanks for posting!

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    Divine Sense: Useful if your campaign involves the undead or fiends. Give your party a heads-up when nasties are around. Not quite indispensible, but it can still be useful.
    This can also be used to determine the locations of invisible creatures.

    Great Weapon Fighting is obviously for those who want to wield bigger swords.
    Why is GWF black? It should be blue at the least. It's a 16.7% increase to Smite damage if nothing else.

    Devotion Oath Spells: All of these are quality spells. Most of them are solid buffs or healing spells, with a couple powerful damaging ones to boot.
    I disagree. Devotion has the fewest out-of-class Oath spells, and several of them are partly or mostly redundant.

    Lesser Restoration: Your Lay on Hands already cures poison and disease. This is only useful for paralysis.

    Beacon of Hope: Your aura provides immunity to fear and charm, which constitute 75% of WIS saves. This is outclassed by Aura of Vitality, which provides about as much healing as Beacon of Hope would, and lets you straight-up bring allies back to life rather than giving them advantage on death saves.

    Flame Strike: Worse than Destructive Wave in almost every way. The only advantage is that it's a ranged spell...but why does that matter?

    Heavily Armored: Almost all Paladins should consider this.
    The hell? Paladins already have heavy armor proficiency.

    Martial Adept: Might be worth it if you multiclass into Battle Master. Otherwise, I'd skip it. 1d6 per short rest is just not worth giving up the feat.
    If you have a rogue in the party, you can give them a second sneak attack. Not the biggest advantage, but still not terrible.

    Shield Master: Great if you use a shield!
    It's certainly good, but it has a lot of caveats. Huge or larger creatures are immune to shoves, the +2 to DEX saves only works on spells that only target you, which is almost none, and the last benefit requires you to make your save AND use a reaction. The gotchas keep it from greatness.

    War Caster: Makes casting in combat much, much easier.
    This is bad for Paladins. All of the Paladin-specific spells are Verbal only, and for the rest you can just sheathe your sword and cast.
    Last edited by Strill; 2014-10-07 at 03:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Strill View Post
    This can also be used to determine the locations of invisible creatures.
    Yes, it can. Noted

    Quote Originally Posted by Strill View Post
    Why is GWF black? It should be blue at the least. It's a 16.7% increase to Smite damage if nothing else.
    I distrust rerolls, especially compared to flat increases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strill View Post
    I disagree. Devotion has the fewest out-of-class Oath spells, and several of them are partly or mostly redundant.

    Lesser Restoration: Your Lay on Hands already cures poison and disease. This is only useful for paralysis.

    Beacon of Hope: Your aura provides immunity to fear and charm, which constitute 75% of WIS saves. This is outclassed by Aura of Vitality, which provides about as much healing as Beacon of Hope would, and lets you straight-up bring allies back to life rather than giving them advantage on death saves.

    Flame Strike: Worse than Destructive Wave in almost every way. The only advantage is that it's a ranged spell...but why does that matter?
    Honestly, I need to look through spells, and I won't be able to for a little while. I liked the spells I saw, though I do agree that some slowly lose importance as you level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strill View Post
    The hell? Paladins already have heavy armor proficiency.
    I switched up the two Heavy Armor feats. Nice catch!

    Quote Originally Posted by Strill View Post
    If you have a rogue in the party, you can give them a second sneak attack. Not the biggest advantage, but still not terrible.
    That's what black means: Not bad, but nothing special. Martial Adept isn't bad, and you shouldn't write it off, but it isn't great.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strill View Post
    It's certainly good, but it has a lot of caveats. Huge or larger creatures are immune to shoves, the +2 to DEX saves only works on spells that only target you, which is almost none, and the last benefit requires you to make your save AND use a reaction. The gotchas keep it from greatness.
    Excellent points!

    Quote Originally Posted by Strill View Post
    This is bad for Paladins. All of the Paladin-specific spells are Verbal only, and for the rest you can just sheathe your sword and cast.
    Sheathing your sword keeps you from making opportunity attacks. Keeping it drawn is important for a tank. War Caster is helpful.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    If you meant the Hill Dwarf, I thought about it and decided to do just that.

    And you're welcome!
    Oops sure did.

    Looking forward to it when it's all finished.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    You mixed up Heavy Armor Master and Heavily Armored. Other than that, looks good!

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    I would argue that warlock is sky blue as an MC choice. it also shares spellcasting synergy and a 2 level dip gets you 2 of the incredibly useful invocations as well as short rest slots to use for smites
    My Characters:

    Rai'un - Monk(8)/Warlock(2) :: The Westfold: Homebrew persistent open world campaign RIP
    Myrion Farcaster - Rogue (no levels) :: The Adventurers Code Vice: homebrew RP campaign RIP
    Pellanistra Tuin'tarl - Paladin (10), Rogue (1) :: Drow underdark campaign RIP

    all the campaigns....they are died....

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    I dont actually think a two-level dip in warlock is ever very good. You might gain a couple of encounter spell slots, but you will lose daily spell slots, which will be higher level. Also the Paladin is chalk full of class features, and I'm not sure its worth getting Aura of Protection, or Courage a few levels late. Seems like 3 levels of Battlemaster nets you extra damage with added benefits 4x a short rest, Second Wind, Action Surge, a second Fighting style, and can reasonably be explained to your DM as to why you are multi-classing.

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonicattorney View Post
    I dont actually think a two-level dip in warlock is ever very good. You might gain a couple of encounter spell slots, but you will lose daily spell slots, which will be higher level. Also the Paladin is chalk full of class features, and I'm not sure its worth getting Aura of Protection, or Courage a few levels late. Seems like 3 levels of Battlemaster nets you extra damage with added benefits 4x a short rest, Second Wind, Action Surge, a second Fighting style, and can reasonably be explained to your DM as to why you are multi-classing.
    It gives the Paladin the one thing it is missing, though. Range. Eldritch Blast+Agonizing Blast is the best ranged attack a Paladin could ask for, and you can improve it with a 10' shove or doubling its range.

    You are actively discouraged from DEX ranged thanks to heavy armor and Aura of Warding. STR ranged isn't really ranged, it is just melee at a distance. And neither of them work with your Smites.

    I agree with a sky blue rating.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    Euphonistan
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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Tome Warlock 3 is also the best way to make an all cha based paladin (cha to melee via shillelagh, cha to ranged via EB, and cha to saves...) however this is probably a late game only build since I have a feeling that waiting extra levels for more attacks or for cha to attack and damage would be too annoying for most if starting at 1st level.
    Last edited by MeeposFire; 2014-10-07 at 10:26 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Good is Not Nice: A Paladin's Guide

    Since the slot level for Warlocks is determined only by the Warlock's level, it's only worth if you take get high enough for level 4 spell slots to max out your Smite damage. Otherwise, you're better off taking levels of Sorcerer or Bard, which will pool with your Paladin levels to determine total spell slots.

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