Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 62
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default The Ideal Four-Person Party

    I'm going to be running a new group soon and I'm gearing it to have four players. I want three of them to be melee and one to be a spellcaster, but apart from that, the details are all up in the air. Provided all builds are the same tier, I'm allowing anything from 3e/3.5/PF. Also, nothing cheesy.
    You're a special snowflake, just like everybody else.
    Quote Originally Posted by kaffalidjmah View Post
    sir, you made my day :)
    Do red dragons dream of fire-breathing sheep?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Seerow's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    I'm going to be running a new group soon and I'm gearing it to have four players. I want three of them to be melee and one to be a spellcaster, but apart from that, the details are all up in the air. Provided all builds are the same tier, I'm allowing anything from 3e/3.5/PF. Also, nothing cheesy.
    3 melee, 1 spellcaster, all on the same tier?

    Seems like the obvious answer is Wizard (spellcaster), Cleric (melee), Druid (Melee), Artificer (Melee).


    But seriously, why 3 melee in one group?
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    3 melee, 1 spellcaster, all on the same tier?

    Seems like the obvious answer is Wizard (spellcaster), Cleric (melee), Druid (Melee), Artificer (Melee).


    But seriously, why 3 melee in one group?
    3 people want effective melee characters, only one wants to be a spellcaster.
    You're a special snowflake, just like everybody else.
    Quote Originally Posted by kaffalidjmah View Post
    sir, you made my day :)
    Do red dragons dream of fire-breathing sheep?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Wait, you are choosing their characters? Any information about their likes/dislikes?
    Starting level?

    2 Warriors with different styles
    Crusader X
    Warblade X

    1 Skilled Warrior
    Ranger X (Wildshape and Trap Expert alternate class features)

    1 Healer/Spellcaster of the same tier
    Human Dread Necromancer X with these feats: Precocious Apprentice[Animate Dead], Arcane Disciple[Renewal Domain], Versatile Spellcaster, and Touch of Healing
    Last edited by OldTrees1; 2014-10-07 at 04:52 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Extra Anchovies's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Quote Originally Posted by OldTrees1 View Post
    Wait, you are choosing their characters? Any information about their likes/dislikes?
    Starting level?

    2 Warriors with different styles
    Crusader X
    Warblade X

    1 Skilled Warrior
    Ranger X (Wildshape and Trap Expert alternate class features)

    1 Healer/Spellcaster of the same tier
    Human Dread Necromancer X with these feats: Precocious Apprentice[Animate Dead], Arcane Disciple[Renewal Domain], Versatile Spellcaster, and Touch of Healing
    Ditch touch of healing, and have everyone in the party take Tomb-Tainted Soul. Now you have all the healing you need. As for the Initiator's styles, I would recommend a tanky THF crusader and a TWF Warblade with some precision-damage dips (one level in Rogue; one in Sneak Attack Fighter; two in Swordsage at the mid-levels for Assassin's Stance, the Desert Wind maneuver that grants free flanking for a round, and maybe Island of Blades).

    Also, how does Dread Necro get Precocious Apprentice (Animate Dead)? It's only a second-level spell for Death Masters.
    Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2014-10-07 at 04:58 PM.
    Sir James Paul McCartney. Jade Phoenix Mage. Coincidence? I think not.

    Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
    3.5 Homebrew: The Legacy Sorcerer - Cthulhu is my granddaddy || The 10-level Prestige Monk - cutting the crap
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakespeare, probably View Post
    "Would a sorcerer by any other name pwn as hard?"
    3.5 book reference index || 3.5 dragon magazine index

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Ditch touch of healing, and have everyone in the party take Tomb-Tainted Soul. Now you have all the healing you need.

    Also, how does Dread Necro get Precocious Apprentice (Animate Dead)? It's only a second-level spell for Death Masters.
    Touch of Healing can heal non party members too. It is one feat either way for the Dread Necromancer(if they want to heal themselves) but one way costs everyone else a feat. Shrug.

    Recently someone pointed out to me that Precocious Apprentice goes by schools of magic that you have access to rather than spells you have access to. Thus Dread Necromancers can take Death Master's Animate Dead Spell.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Beguiler for the caster, factotum, warblade, and psychic warrior for melee. Gives a fairly diverse array of powers.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Extra Anchovies's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Another suggestion:

    Cleric (archery)
    Cleric (melee)
    Cloistered Cleric (skills, buffs, healing, melee support)
    Wizard (casting) - Make sure he calls himself a cleric; a level of Runesmith would help him fit in.

    Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2014-10-07 at 05:06 PM.
    Sir James Paul McCartney. Jade Phoenix Mage. Coincidence? I think not.

    Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
    3.5 Homebrew: The Legacy Sorcerer - Cthulhu is my granddaddy || The 10-level Prestige Monk - cutting the crap
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakespeare, probably View Post
    "Would a sorcerer by any other name pwn as hard?"
    3.5 book reference index || 3.5 dragon magazine index

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Beguiler (caster), Dread Necromancer (go mounted, and be a combatant), Crusader, Binder. All of the last 3 can be perfectly good at melee, while all 4 have enough versatility to at least be able to branch out if the need arises.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV.

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Bard (Arcane Duelist) - Melee, Alchemist w/ Feral Mutagen - Melee, Inquistor w/ Anger Inquisition - Melee, Shaman - Spellcaster.

    There you go, a party of all roughly equal Tier characters with 3 melee monsters and a good full caster.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    If one of your player fancy the idea, you could give him a synthesist.

    Also, tob classes/pow classes are good.

    I would go with a synthesist, a warlord from pow, a slayer and a shaman.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Gulnar View Post
    If one of your player fancy the idea, you could give him a synthesist.

    Also, tob classes/pow classes are good.

    I would go with a synthesist, a warlord from pow, a slayer and a shaman.
    He asked for them to the same Tier, but Shaman is a T2/T3 (build and level dependent), Synthesist is a T2, and Warlord and Slayer are T4, so there's a bit of a gap in party Tier there.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Chaosvii7's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Boldly Going Nowhere
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    This came up in another topic or forum. My answer is still the same; Four bards.
    Jade Phoenix Mage Avatar made by Kymme

    No longer will you have to worry about what color shoes you have on during a full moon to get an additional +1 to your attack roll.
    CURRENTLY PLAYING:
    [3.P]Caesare Kudefu - LN Elf Spellslinger 5/Musket Master 1/Eldritch Knight 2
    [3.P]Butterbean - LG Goblin Alchemist 11

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Tier 5: Fighter, Healer, Knight, Ninja

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Apr 2013

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    ganiseville GA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Wizard wizard wizard and wizard?

    One is an anything (human) Wizard 5 / Ruthar 3 / Abjurant champion 5 with shape soulmeld (asteral vembrances) to get him through 1st level. - Untouchable melee

    One is a human Wizard 3 / Master Specialist 4 / master transmogrifist 6 with trollblooded and toughness to survive first level. - Unkillable melee

    One is an anything Wizard 3 / master specialist 4 / Malconvoker 10 - Expendable melee

    And finally the last is a wizard 5 / Incantrix X who persists everyone's spells so everyone rocks. - Spellcaster
    Last edited by Fouredged Sword; 2014-10-07 at 07:45 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    Jun 2013

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Ideal for newbies? Pick 4 classes from tier 3 and run with it. Let the three who want to melee run the three TOB base classes and give the last one a beguiler or a bard. They'll stay around the same power level and everyone will have unique abilities. The swordsage could be replaced with factotum if you feel like they need trapfinding.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Barbarian, fighter, magus for melee and qinggong monk for a caster.
    I prefer Pathfinder to D&D but we can still be friends if you don't
    Always eager to help. Send me a PM if you need help with a homebrew/world building thing. I'm no master by any means but I can try my best.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Extra Anchovies's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Warforged Totemist 2/Whirling Frenzy Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 4/Totem Rager 10/Totemist 4, for pounce badassery
    Binder 6/Knight of the Sacred Seal 5/Binder +9, for combat support and versatility
    Warblade 10/Eternal Blade 10, for multiple-full-attacks badassery
    Beguiler 20, for skillmonkeying and casting

    All of them are mid/high T3 or very low T2. Only the Binder and Beguiler run risks of breaking the game (through Summon shenanigans and through charm/compulsion/diplomancy shenanigans), but the Totemist and Warblade have an equal chance of breaking the face of anyone they fight.
    Sir James Paul McCartney. Jade Phoenix Mage. Coincidence? I think not.

    Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
    3.5 Homebrew: The Legacy Sorcerer - Cthulhu is my granddaddy || The 10-level Prestige Monk - cutting the crap
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakespeare, probably View Post
    "Would a sorcerer by any other name pwn as hard?"
    3.5 book reference index || 3.5 dragon magazine index

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Coidzor's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Samurai Casino
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    I'm going to be running a new group soon and I'm gearing it to have four players. I want three of them to be melee and one to be a spellcaster, but apart from that, the details are all up in the air. Provided all builds are the same tier, I'm allowing anything from 3e/3.5/PF. Also, nothing cheesy.
    No details or restrictions other than htiting things at melee range?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Bard, Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade

    All four very straightforward, single-class builds with zero cheese.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Cleric, Cleric, Cleric, Cloistered Cleric

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    UrashimaJamez's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Ensenada, México.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Come on, guys. Give the OP a break on the cleric's T1 gamebreaking capabilities.

    How about Favored Soul, Favored Soul, Favored Soul, and Sorcerer? Seems pretty balanced to me.


    Blue equals sarcasm, for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    GITP: Combining underpowered options supposed to be strong, overpowered options supposed to be balanced, gods, and OOC-knowledge into something that makes sense.

    On-Going Games.
    [D&D 3.5e • Abundel: Edge of Perfection]
    [D&D 3.5e • An Extended Family]
    [D&D 3.5e • You Just Got Schooled (Group 2)]

    Awesome avatar by Iruka.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Apr 2013

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    vanilla fighter, complete warrior samurai, vanilla monk, truenamer.
    done and done.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Troll in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Warmage
    Barbarian
    Paladin
    Rogue (or Daring Outlaw)

    or

    Beguiler
    Favored Soul
    Knight
    Swift Hunter

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Gender
    Male

    d20 Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Gwendol's suggestions seem good for the OP.
    -Curb

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gooddragon1's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    In the playground

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Quote Originally Posted by sideswipe View Post
    vanilla fighter, complete warrior samurai, vanilla monk, truenamer.
    done and done.
    This post is not unlike telling a counterstrike source player to press f10 in game or alt+f4...

    The 'iconic' party is:
    Cleric=Priest (more powerful early and still good but the wizard has more cheese)
    Wizard=Mage (most powerful)
    Fighter=Fighter (*sadface*)
    Rogue=Thief (Below cleric and wizard but above fighter)
    Last edited by gooddragon1; 2014-10-08 at 04:53 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Woland View Post
    Honestly, some lawyer somewhere is probably having an orgasm and he doesn't know why."
    No μ!
    Nexus Character: Nothing
    Hi my name is ... and I'm an attention addict.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    The problem is, with three melee guys, you need one caster to solve all magical problems. Incorporeal creatures, curses, negative levels, enchantments, environmental obstacles, everything. So, Archivist? Bard might work, if you offer some bonus spells that aren't normally on the list, say, by Arcane Disciple.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2014-10-08 at 05:49 AM.
    "You raise your baton. The glass kettle drums pound out the the overture. Your vision clouds with blood. You wipe it away and continue. The xylophonist's hair bursts into a violet flame, but he continues playing. He's either a consummate professional or very drunk indeed..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    There are a few goal-posts that need to be hit soundly to be an ideal party (assuming T3 or higher, T4 might not be able to cover all the bases they may need to, or at least has a higher chance).

    First, the party needs to be able to deal with ambushes of several kinds. This can mean detecting them as they're coming in, knowing a hostile is present before it knows you are, being uncatchable by an ambush (either through stealth or mobility), and of course surviving the surprise round if the previous stuff doesn't work.

    Second, they need to be able to get where they're going in both reasonable amounts of time and with minimal permanent damage along the way. This is connected to the previous point, but also incorporates raw travel speed, endurance for forced marches and similar, access to non-land movements when the destination and/or the obstacles make walking untenable, access to trap-mitigation when they can't be walked around (and hopefully your ambush detection methods can cover detecting traps too), and of course the ability to determine where you're going in the first place (which could itself mean tracking, divination, and/or intelligence gathering depending on the situation; maps and directions aren't always provided for free, and they aren't always enough).

    Third, they need to be able to fight and at least hold their own in any number of terrains and conditions. This includes but is FAR from limited to ranged combat, melee combat, underwater combat, midair combat, unarmed combat, AMF combat, naked combat, and any combination thereof; the more targets hit, the better.

    Fourth and finally, they need to be able to interact with others in a meaningful way that doesn't directly involve combat. This is mostly roleplay, but any mechanical advantage that can be found will be helpful, even without such cheese as high-level Diplomacy. Provided that your DM does not force such things in a negative way, being able to roll a d20 and make the DM tell you what you want to know on a successful check can be infinitely more hassle-free than trying to decipher an NPC's ramblings. Roleplaying is nice, but one does not need to indulge ALL the time, especially when realistically only one of the players will be involved.

    The iconic way of performing this is with a party comprised as follows.

    A Melee Beefcake to serve as shield for the rest of the party from frontal assault and in general be a walking meat-grinder for the opposition. One of the best classes for this in T3 is the Warblade, though making things that serve this role well is not all TOO difficult if the player knows what they're doing. The biggest issue here is making them competent at ranged combat, but several things can be found that apply to both types, so a dual-progression isn't hard. If necessary, a Warblade's Retraining mechanic allows one to switch from one type of Exotic Weapon to another within 24 hours, and there are several of both melee and ranged varieties that are effective.

    A Sneak to serve as scout, trap-finder, sensor, trouble-shooter and probably frontman if no other player picked something iconic for the role (Paladin springs to mind). Factotum is practically this concept incarnate, with mild to moderate dipping in Swordsage to shore up its martial chops. This type of character is nearly guaranteed to have more skill points than any other role in the party, quite possibly by double or more. This allows for them to pick up several generally useful skills and skill tricks that would otherwise be too unnecessary in comparison to others for the player to justify the SP expenditure. In a pinch, they can also do spot-weld versions of the two Casters' jobs as well, which is always nice if one of them goes down.

    A Divine Caster to serve as Buffer, most likely secondary Beefcake (and the T1 version may be better at it than the character actually dedicated to the role, but that's the nature of T1), special enemy sweeper (some undead are downright MEAN on parties without Divine Casters), Minionmancer, General Magic Utility, and Medic duty when the party doesn't want to burn a sizable chunk of their GP on it (and someone that can use those wands without a check needed is nice in a world without Take 10 UMD). If the name of the game is T3, then you'll probably be stuck with a Ranger (Wildshape preferably) or a somewhat optimized Paladin. T1 is CoDzilla, obviously. While not absent per se, directly offensive magic is blatantly a secondary concern at best, though some gems do exist in this category. In trade, there's a very good chance that if there's something that needs done, the Divine Caster has at least one spell that'll help someone do it. They're also the generally accepted best chassis for most flavors of Minionmancy, so if you want to fight goon swarms with your own, this is the way to do it.

    An Arcane Caster to serve as Offensive Magic specialist, General Magic Utility (there's SOME overlap, but not all), secondary Minionmancer, Buffer (several of the options here are distinct from Divine magic), Battlefield Control, Diviner, and Sniper (as in one shot one kill) or Nuke (as in kill everything from here to the horizon) in a pinch. Beguiler and Dread Necromancer are the primary offerings at T3, while higher is dominated by the Wizard. Realistically, at the higher levels, this is the most versatile archetype available, made doubly so by the fact that it can actually do those disparate things well with only a little effort. It does have some unique things to it, though. It being both the most targeted archetype and the lowest-HP one is nearly a fact of life, though, so some degree of paranoia is expected. The fact that it has access to monstrosities such as Contingent Spell is testament to this fact.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Troll in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: The Ideal Four-Person Party

    Bard is most likely the best T3 arcane caster. I don't see the Beguiler or DN cover the same ground.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •