I want to get a Sorcerer into Heavy Armor, options?

[Esprit15]

Why not Battle Sorcerer with Battle Caster, then get some Mithral Fullplate? Mithral lowers it to acting as Medium armor, which Battle Caster allows you to wear. Down one feat and about 10 000 GP, but it does the job.

[happycube]

Warmage was mentioned, but I didn't see anyone bring up the alternate class feature (Eclectic Learning) from the PHB II. That lets you pick up other spells from Wizard/Sorcerer at the cost of the spell being one level higher for you. This would give you Haste, albeit as a 4th level spell, which you could then use Versatile Spellcaster (RotD) to cast using two 3rd level spell slots, allowing you to qualify for Swiftblade.

In order to get heavy armor proficiency without arcane spell failure, you would then just grab Battle Caster as has been mentioned before.

[macdaddy]

I know you want a sorcerer, BUT....

If you change it to wizard, you can then do fighter/wizard (focused specialist transmuter)/Runesmith/Spellsword/Abjurant champion

You then get the same number of spells per day as a sorcerer, get more known, can cast in full plate, and your only drawback is you have to choose your spells at the beginning of the day.

[Extra Anchovies]

Why not Battle Sorcerer with Battle Caster, then get some Mithral Fullplate? Mithral lowers it to acting as Medium armor, which Battle Caster allows you to wear. Down one feat and about 10 000 GP, but it does the job.

Battle Sorcerer is only proficient with light armor. You'd need two feats, Medium Armor Proficiency and Battle Caster.

[ranagrande]

Another possibility that could be kind of fun would be something like Cleric 1/Sorcerer 4/Geomancer 5/Swiftblade 10.

Unfortunately, ASF would still apply to spells of fifth level or higher. If you only used those slots for metamagicked spells of fourth level or lower, you'd be fine.

[dascarletm]

Battle Sorcerer is only proficient with light armor. You'd need two feats, Medium Armor Proficiency and Battle Caster.

That's what your paladin dip is for (among other things)

[Larkas]

Hmmm... Favored Soul + Planar Touchstone (Catalogs of Enlightenment) for Time Domain works and is a pretty clean entry for Swiftblade, it seems.

[Extra Anchovies]

Hmmm... Favored Soul + Planar Touchstone (Catalogs of Enlightenment) for Time Domain works and is a pretty clean entry for Swiftblade, it seems.

There's a few flaws here.

The main issue is that Swiftblade doesn't advance spellcasting. It advances arcane spellcasting. You could probably get a divine version through DM fiat, but that doesn't solve the following issues.

Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment)'s greater ability only allows one use per day.

Swiftblade requires that you use all of your 3rd-level spell slots, and there's no way to get haste on your spell list as anything other than a once-per-day domain spell. This is the main issue, and prevents divine access entirely.

[Larkas]

Scratch all that, then. Hmmm... Is Catalogs of Enlightenment compatible with Divine Magician?

[Gwendol]

Warmage was mentioned, but I didn't see anyone bring up the alternate class feature (Eclectic Learning) from the PHB II. That lets you pick up other spells from Wizard/Sorcerer at the cost of the spell being one level higher for you. This would give you Haste, albeit as a 4th level spell, which you could then use Versatile Spellcaster (RotD) to cast using two 3rd level spell slots, allowing you to qualify for Swiftblade.

In order to get heavy armor proficiency without arcane spell failure, you would then just grab Battle Caster as has been mentioned before.

Nice. You will be able to pick up Haste at level 6 using Eclectic Learning, same as when the sorcerer gets Haste, provided the DM accepts a generous reading of versatile spellcaster. Otherwise the Warmage must wait until lvl 11 to get the spell, which makes it the worse choice.

[happycube]

Nice. You will be able to pick up Haste at level 6 using Eclectic Learning, same as when the sorcerer gets Haste, provided the DM accepts a generous reading of versatile spellcaster. Otherwise the Warmage must wait until lvl 11 to get the spell, which makes it the worse choice.

Good point! you could throw in a few levels (two, specifically) of your favorite full caster PrC before you hit Warmage 6, progressing your casting while delaying your choice of Eclectic Learning until you could actually select Haste, getting you the spell at character level 8. That'd mean you wouldn't have to leave legality entirely to a DM ruling.

[torrasque666]

I'm gonna second the much easier method of Battle Sorcerer with Battle Caster and Mithral Heavy Armor. Much simpler, and doesn't rely on shenanigans.

[sideswipe]

A while back I figured out a way to get 0% spell failure Fullplate. Because you know, why not, it seemed like a simple enough and amusing task.

Full Plate has 35% spell failure.
Mithral reduces that by 10%.
Twilight is a +1 armor enchantment which can be found in the Magic Item Compendium that can decrease it by a further 10%.
Thistledown from Races of the Wild can be added to reduce it by 5%.
Feycraft is an item template from DMG II which reduces it by another 5%.
Githcraft is another item template from the DMG II which deals with the last 5%.


The only part of this that someone might question is applying multiple item templates to a single item, but there is nothing to indicate that you can't- its just generally they're mutually exclusive. Mechanically having multiple templates doesn't cause any problems, and you CAN qualify for both Githcraft and Feycraft on a single item (its a bit of a complicated requirement though- you have to have a githyanki smith crafting the item on the astral plane outside the bounds of a settlement while under the magical influence of a fey).

Besides mithral its actually not too expensive. Thistledown, Feycraft, and githcraft all together are 1350 gold.

if your DM disallows a couple of these things you could take a 1 level dip in spellsword to negate the rest of the ASF

[atemu1234]

I seem to remember a Dwarf PrC that gives you the ability to cast in full plate. Runesmith, I think.

[dysprosium]

Unless my reading comprehension is really declining, no one has mentioned Arcane Disciple yet. Time or Celerity domain are the usual go to domains for Swiftblade hopefuls.

[Extra Anchovies]

Unless my reading comprehension is really declining, no one has mentioned Arcane Disciple yet. Time or Celerity domain are the usual go to domains for Swiftblade hopefuls.

The issue is, you have to use all of your 3rd-level slots to cast Haste. Hard to do that when you're limited to one domain spell per spell level per day, because unless you're a Bard, Paladin, or Ranger, you're going to have at least 1 class-derived spell per day of each level you can cast, and with third-level spells you'll almost certainly get 1 bonus spell on top of that. You wouldn't be able to use both slots for Arcane Disciple'd Haste.

[dysprosium]

I believe Duskblade gets around this restriction--as would Sorcerers. They could choose haste as a spell known (via Arcane Disciple for Duskblades). As long as the 3rd level spell is used for haste then it isn't a problem.

[Extra Anchovies]

I believe Duskblade gets around this restriction--as would Sorcerers. They could choose haste as a spell known (via Arcane Disciple for Duskblades). As long as the 3rd level spell is used for haste then it isn't a problem.

Duskblades never have fewer than 2 class-derived spells per day of any level they can cast. Arcane Disciple is once per day per spell level. So it wouldn't work for them.

And why would a Sorcerer need or even want to use Arcane Disciple? Haste is on the Sorcerer/Wizard list, and if you're a Swiftblade you'll want to cast Haste a lot, so you might as well add it to your normal list of spells known.

[dysprosium]

Duskblades never have fewer than 2 class-derived spells per day of any level they can cast. Arcane Disciple is once per day per spell level. So it wouldn't work for them.

And why would a Sorcerer need or even want to use Arcane Disciple? Haste is on the Sorcerer/Wizard list, and if you're a Swiftblade you'll want to cast Haste a lot, so you might as well add it to your normal list of spells known.

My writing is full of fail too.

Obviously Sorcerers would not need Arcane Disciple.

Never noticed the only being able to cast one domain spell per day before.

I'll just go hide in the corner now. Carry on.

[Esprit15]

I'm gonna second the much easier method of Battle Sorcerer with Battle Caster and Mithral Heavy Armor. Much simpler, and doesn't rely on shenanigans.

Yeah, I forgot about proficiency, but as has been pointed out, there are plenty of 1 level dips that help with that (hell, 2 in it gets your massive CHA to saves, which is always fun).

[Endarire]

Why is heavy armor so important to you? AC-wise, you can do similarly with spells.

[Seerow]

Why is heavy armor so important to you? AC-wise, you can do similarly with spells.

First, because I am sick of every character I see or make using light or no armor. I was wanting to find a way to avoid using mithral for similar reasons. In games I run I tend to houserule armor heavily to make more than just mithril chain shirts/breastplates viable armor options. Running dwarf something or other seemed like my best bet, and I decided to try to Gish it up.


Secondly, because the image of a Dwarf in full plate moving faster than the vast majority of other characters/creatures is just awesome/hilarious character imagery. Because nobody expects the dwarf with a 70ft move speed.

[Extra Anchovies]

Why is heavy armor so important to you? AC-wise, you can do similarly with spells.

Full Plate with Magic Vestment cast on it: +13 armor bonus.
Mechanus Plate with Magic Vestment: +15 armor bonus.

What spells give a +15 armor bonus? Even a Greater Luminous Armor cast by an Abjurant Champion only gives +12. Magic wins in terms of shield bonuses, as well as the other AC bonus types, but there's not much that can beat some +5 heavy armor. Also, clanking around in full plate just looks cool.

[Seerow]

What spells give a +15 armor bonus? Even a Greater Luminous Armor cast by an Abjurant Champion only gives +12. Magic wins in terms of shield bonuses, as well as the other AC bonus types, but there's not much that can beat some +5 heavy armor. Also, clanking around in full plate just looks cool.

I think Abjurant Champion with GLA is +13 Armor bonus, same as full plate. And gives enemies that -2 penalty on top of that, making it generally competitive with the best armors in the game. But gishes with magical not-armor-armor are overdone and boring. Like you say, clanking around in full plate looks cool, and getting to do that without the normally godawful move speed associated with it is winning like Charlie Sheen. And that to me is enough reason to run with it.

Either way, this thread has been pretty helpful.

Right now it seems my options, in order, are:

1) Battle Sorcerer with Battle Caster feat and mithral armor
2) Heavily modified armor, possibly with a dip into Spellsword.
3) Duskblade or Warmage with shenanigans to get Haste on the spell list.
4) Convince DM to allow Runesmith to work with spontaneous casting (going by RAI, the adaptation section of Runesmith specifically says it is supposed to give wizards and sorcerers the ability to cast in armor.)
5) Convince the DM to allow Swiftblade to progress divine casting, utilize spontaneous cleric with Time domain for access to Haste.


The last two I mention because they have been brought up more than once, but require GM modification to be used. They are probably option #1 and #2 respectively if allowed. #3 is rough because they come online much later than the Sorcerer, but could be interesting for a lower tier alternative depending on how the overall party shapes up.

If there was any other options mentioned that I forgot about or didn't list, let me know, but I think that covers everything.

[Sam K]

Why not just go wizard and limit yourself to a very limited number of spells? I mean, the main reason you want sorc is to do away with the book keeping, which I can totally understand, but what if you just minimize it instead? Runesmith works that way, all problems solved, much happiness!

[ranagrande]

I had suggested Cleric 1/Sorcerer 4/Geomancer 5/Swiftblade 10.

The drawback is that you can only cast spells up to fourth level without ASF. You could use higher slots for metamagicked versions of those spells without penalty though.