Writer's Corner: Writing for fun and profit (but mostly fun)

[Weimann]

I recently found a lecture series by Brandon Sanderson on Youtube. It's really good, I feel, particularly for the aspiring fantasy or sci-fi author since Sanderson is into fantasy himself.

I have a few ideas on my own, but I have a bachelor's thesis to write before I begin with anything else.

[Toastkart]

That is a very poor argument against fantastic elements in a fantasy story.

It wasn't meant as an arguement, merely an observation.


Anyways, I've got a question. This may only be relevant to certain types of fantasy settings, but how do you guys handle things (objects, fashions, trends, etc.) that have names based on real world places? Cologne may be an easy one, because it's far enough removed from its origins as to have taken on a meaning all of its own. But what about things like Tyrolean hats, or Persian rugs, or French braids? What do you do if you don't want to waste words and page space describing things in intricate detail when a proper name will do? So far, I've been not capitalizing the place name or using a slightly less obvious place name that essentially would be the same thing. How about you guys?

[JediSoth]

It wasn't meant as an arguement, merely an observation.


Anyways, I've got a question. This may only be relevant to certain types of fantasy settings, but how do you guys handle things (objects, fashions, trends, etc.) that have names based on real world places? Cologne may be an easy one, because it's far enough removed from its origins as to have taken on a meaning all of its own. But what about things like Tyrolean hats, or Persian rugs, or French braids? What do you do if you don't want to waste words and page space describing things in intricate detail when a proper name will do? So far, I've been not capitalizing the place name or using a slightly less obvious place name that essentially would be the same thing. How about you guys?

If I can't find an alternate name for a thing (which many of these things have, if a bit archaic), I generally just describe it enough to get a sense of the thing I want. I'm usually not so pressed for words that I can't do that.

For example, if brevity was important, I'd describe the Tyrolean hat as an "alpine hat." If I could take the space, I'd describe it as "a narrowed-brimmed felt hat with a feathered brush at the base of its tapered crown."

[Yora]

I would describe the objects in question. With many of these words, chances are good the reader doesn't know them anyway, especially if they are not native speakers.

[AdmiralCheez]

Yeah, a short description is probably the best way to do it; enough to get the point across, at least. If you want to add some flavor though, you could always change the name to something that exists in your world. For example, it's not a Persian rug, it's an exotic, intricately-detailed carpet known as a Gondorian rug. It's not a French braid, it's a braided hairstyle locally called the Shire braid.

[Yora]

I am considering doing some stories in which the protagonists end up being defeated. Maybe they don't achieve their goal and have to flee at the end, or they go down in a blaze of glory. However, doing so in a satisfying way is the challenging part.

What do you think are good stories of protagonists ending up losing, and how are such endings made satisfactory to the audience?

[Admiral Squish]

Two things to mention here.

First:
Last night, it became official. I have become a person who is paid for writing things.
I've been writing some short stories and posting them in a couple places, and in the interest of having money at some distant point in the future, I created a patreon page some time ago. I'd more or less forgotten about it, when somebody came in and pledged! One dollar per chapter, but that's enough to make it official in my mind. And it's not even like a friend or acquaintance, it's a total stranger who just happens to think my stuff is awesome enough to pay for.

Second:
Has anyone had any experience with Tablo? I just heard about the site, and I was wondering if their services were worth their take.

[Yora]

Trying to come up with an idea for a story, I just remembered what is probably the ultimate writing tip, that is pretty much guaranteed to get around writers block every time:
"If you can't think of any way how the story could continue, have a man with a gun burst into the room."
It's just perfect. It's action, it's danger, it's a scare, and at least for the moment a completely unexpected twist! It raises so many questions: Who is that man? Why does he have a gun? What does he want? Where does he come from? Does he attack? Is he fleeing from something? Has something happened? Will something happen?! This is soo exciting! The suspense is killing me!
The hardest part is probably to limit yourself to just two or three o those and not create a full avalanche of new plot threads. I think I'll start my Sword & Sorcery story just like that: "It's a quiet winters nights, and without warning the doors of the great hall are trown open, revealing a large man with a wild beard and a bloody sword in his hand..."

[Yora]

Somebody please give me a story hook.

I have to start somewhere and can't think of anything that would be perfect. So I think I instead start with something random and make it perfect for the style I have in mind. If "Lost Roman Legion encounter Pokemon" can make a great selling series, than everything can be turned into a story.

[Admiral Squish]

Somebody please give me a story hook.

I have to start somewhere and can't think of anything that would be perfect. So I think I instead start with something random and make it perfect for the style I have in mind. If "Lost Roman Legion encounter Pokemon" can make a great selling series, than everything can be turned into a story.

Mysterious individual starts a youtube video series that teaches real, inexplicable magic.

EDIT: Actually, dibs on that one.

How about... Apollo 11 discovers life.

[Yora]

I was more thinking about Sword & Sorcery, but that can still work. "Mysterious person hanging around a backroad tavern gives questionable magical advice to travelers. The local shamans are not pleased."

Now the interesting part will be making it into a story in which he is not the devil.

[BeerMug Paladin]

For some reason, soliciting suggestions like this made me think of this:

A man sitting on a bench witnesses a pregnant woman fleeing from thugs threatening to kill her.

Of course, it's already used for something. It's just an awesome plot hook.

Not sure what to suggest for a sword and sorcery plot hook.

A corpse teleports into a remote villager's barn, dropping an important looking missive.

[Admiral Squish]

I was more thinking about Sword & Sorcery, but that can still work. "Mysterious person hanging around a backroad tavern gives questionable magical advice to travelers. The local shamans are not pleased."

Now the interesting part will be making it into a story in which he is not the devil.

Well, ya shoulda specified. :P
That interpretations's not quite the same, though... What about a swords-and-sorcery setting where magic was driven to extinction, until a mysterious stranger brings it back and starts teaching it to the people?

[Yora]

To lait, it will be about a lamia who is peddling charms that give a person courage and the ability to see through deception. Unfortunately, it does not give wisdom or restraint, or to distinguish between things in the physical world and the spiritworld. I'm still not sure what she gains from it, but there's already a story brewing up.

[Yora]

I'm trying to do some polishing on my Sword & Sorcery protagonist in the hope that it will help me come up with compelling plots for stories. I'd like to hear some of your thought on it:

She is a woman; mostly human, with some parts elf in her family, which isn't particularly unusual in the area; and in her late 20s. Unlike the generic grumpy barbarian, her primary defining emotions are fun and optimism. She is not constantly super-exited and cheery, but the things that motivate her in the long term and drive her into action is to cheer up people she is in direct contact with and help them getting out of serious problems. She doesn't follow any plan to seek out injustice, fight crime, or travel the land doing good deeds, but she's just quick to give a hand or some kind words where it is needed and she just happens to be nearby. She is generally friendly, but not necessarily polite, and to some degree a bit selfish and lazy. Helping someone out quickly is no thing, but hard chores or serious duties are something she tries to quitely avoid.
She is no idiot and has enough common sense, but she isn't too particularly clever or bright and not someone for complex plans or devious manipulations. Her biggest problem is that not only does she always keep pushing forward until she hits a barrier, but also just has to keep try pushing a little bit more, just to make sure she really has reached the limit of what she can do. Sometimes that works out well because she's persistent in the face of adversity, but more often than not it has her ending up in trouble she could have just walked away from. However, once things start to get bad, she's not sticking around fighting foolish battles against hopeless odds. However, as she sees it, she is not running away, but admiting being defeated and retreating. You can't always win, and there is no sense in going down with the ship.
She is quite strong for someone of her size and knows how to wrestle and box, but isn't that good that she could stand up to real experts at these. Surprising her enemies with her strength and skill and then trying to get out of a prolonged fight is her usual method. When it is practical, she carries a spear and fights with it, or relies on an axe when it's not. Swords are too expensive for her. She also has a big knife, but that one is once more to stab people in the back and then quickly run away.

I really quite like the character so far, but I am somewhat afraid that there is a strong tendency to get too cartoonish with it. In Sword & Sorcery, getting larger than life is a good thing, but I really don't want to end up with a wisecracking prankster who is too foolish to realize the danger of a situation. As humor goes, I really don't want to go further than Indiana Jones or Geralt of Rivia. Some smartassery is great, but not a primarily humorous character. I think an uneducated Indiana Jones might not be too far off from what I want to write, or for example, if Lady Eboshi from Princess Mononoke had a mispent youth, this would be pretty much it. Maybe add some Eleanor Lamb from Bioshock 2, particularly in the last part of the game.

I think what the character still needs are some more personal interests and a few rough edges. Things that can make the character stumble on occasion, both in bad ways and good ways. Things that might get her into a sour mood or to be more unreasonable than usual. The character wants to cheer people up and help them out with their problems, while remaining friendly and avoiding things getting ugly. But a character just like that would be too smooth. There also need to be some complications that make her ignore her normal priorities in certain situations or cause her priorities to come into conflict. I want a character who wants to do the right thing but is not always able to live up to her own ideals, but still making a difference for the better in the long run. Oh yeah, and without being mopey when she stumbles a bit.

Do you have any ideas how to give this character more texture?

[Admiral Squish]

Well, I can't really help with your specific character, honestly, since to find a texture you like's a personal deal. But as a general, quick way to add some depth and texture to a character, I put three extra categories on the end of the character profiles I use for personal reference. Likes, dislikes, and secret.
The first two seem kinda like a waste of time at first glance, since most characters have relatively obvious likes and dislikes, the stuff that shapes the character. Dislikes authority, likes nature, dislikes guns, likes feminism, and such. But to get real use out of them, you want to think about the less obvious ones. Maybe they have a soft spot for trashy romance novels, or they thing bugs are super-cool, or they're freaked out by big dogs, or they can't stand the smell of mushrooms.
Secret's pretty self-explanatory, though how secret it should be is really up to you.
The thing is, simply by having these things in mind while you write, I think it makes the characters more 'real', because those little facts impact their behaviors in various ways, even if they're not obvious. You don't want to force the character to show their likes/dislikes though, or launch into a monologue about their time their great aunt's dog bit them when they were little every time they hear a dog barking. And you don't ever actually have to reveal the secret, though there's potential for fun if it is. If a situation comes up where their like/dislike would be appropriate to show, then do it.

Of course, I could just be talking outta my butt considering my relatively limited experience as a writer.

[BeerMug Paladin]

I'm trying to do some polishing on my Sword & Sorcery protagonist in the hope that it will help me come up with compelling plots for stories. I'd like to hear some of your thought on it:

-stuff-

Do you have any ideas how to give this character more texture?

It's not clear to me what your character would be doing if she was left alone, without any distractions from people or events. Is she a drifting wanderer with no real goals in life? Because that's the impression I get. That sort of person would work better as a supporting cast better than a main character, but as a main it definitely can work.

Also, giving her a significant character flaw that drives her to make bad choices can provide some compelling depth.

To use an example, this character description reminds me of a character I've made in my own writing. The major differences are is that my character loves learning about history and exploration and is pretty smart. By herself she would either want to explore the unknown or learn more about the world (with a focus on history).

She is also severely overconfident of her own abilities to the point that even when she fails (by any reasonable objective measure) she absolutely does not admit she had made a bad decision. The situation itself was unwinnable and she arrived at the best possible outcome.

[Yora]

It's not clear to me what your character would be doing if she was left alone, without any distractions from people or events. Is she a drifting wanderer with no real goals in life? Because that's the impression I get. That sort of person would work better as a supporting cast better than a main character, but as a main it definitely can work.

That's exactly the thing that I am struggling with!

So far, there isn't really much that would make the character proactive or constructive in any way.
The big problem I have with most fantasy characters, and which I really want to avoid, is that they either jump to every opportunity to save the world at the drop of a hat, or they just like so steal stuff to sell and waste in a tavern. As much as I like young Conan, everything he does is because he thinks it's fun to kill people and has no problem with stealing whatever he likes. The classic RPG adventurers are essentially the same thing. It works for that one character, but it's a rather poor template for general Sword & Sorcery protagonists (which is why all the Clonans have been forgotten, but the real one is still famous). King Conan goes hunting the enemies of his kingdom, but that works because he's the top dog in the world, and I would like to have a more mundane character.

Getting a character caught up in lots of adventures in different places is extremely hard if this character does not have a complete disregard for survival.

[BeerMug Paladin]

I'm no expert on the genre, but don't westerns usually have characters like that? Drifters who wander into town, get mixed up in the local affairs, and move on after they have settled the big local problem? They're basically the same thing as an RPG hero, they just don't have infinitely deep pockets and steal everything that's not nailed down.

It's not a very realistic character, sure. But it's an archetype that is easily referenced and used. The main attraction with using such a character would be the plot and maybe the villain. She has no other reason to get involved in things than it's where she happens to be right now. But she has no real fondness for where she is once the problems are solved, so she moves on.

It seems to me that the reason why long term heroes are so often pre-destined, dedicated to thwarting evil or hunted is to get them to leave their comfort zones after they've done the big hero thing somewhere. They must continue risking their lives because their destiny or their mission or their safety is not complete yet.

Most people go on no adventures. So being on one must be an extraordinary circumstance.

Really, I think the question you have to ask yourself about this character is how realistic you really want to handle her decisions about going on adventures. If she's going to be an Indiana Jones character, make her interested in plundering the tombs of the seven pirate kings of a bygone age and you're done.

At least until seven adventures are finished.

But a realistic character would either retire or have their life changed drastically after one plundering. And not be eager to get themselves into another crazy situation. So that's where being hounded by whoever or whatever comes in handy.

Anyway, all this is aside the point. First, ask yourself what your goal is for this character. Is she supposed to be an entertaining adventurer, or do you want to use her to make some interesting or thematic point for your audience?

I get the impression that you just want a fun character for adventures, and if that's the point, just give her an interest in something random, a hate for something random, and wallpaper over the fact that constantly placing herself in peril makes her kind of a lunatic. It works for Indiana Jones and countless other adventuring heroes.

For instance, make her love going to see great bardic performances, and absolutely hate heights. Traveling the world to watch great operas and plays motivates her wanderlust, and having a fear of heights is a weakness that can paralyze her.

[Yora]

My early work on the world was as a setting for a game, where I was facing the same problem of making PC more than murderhobos. Back then, I had a good idea, which I had completely forgotten once the players had their own ideas for, admitedly quite stereotypical, characters and I just let them have their fun with those. (Settings with strong themes for a campaign really only work if the players are already familiar with it, like Star Wars or Dragon Age.)
The idea was to make the world tailored not for any kind of characters one could think of, but specifically for scouts and investigators. It's about young civilizations that have just gained the ability to expand into the unknown wilderness outside of the ancient ancestral homelands. The wilds are full of magical wonders and dangers still unknown to most people, and so the new kings and great chiefs need smart warriors who leave the borders of the familiar land to scout out what possible dangers lie beyond them and to learn what useful knowledge the other small kingdoms and tribes have discovered about the wilds.

I think that's just a perfect background for the character. The clans need their stongest warriors to protect the home and fight hostile neighbors, while the ideal people for the long-range scouting have just a little bit more eagerness than caution. They work alone or in small groups, with a very open-ended task and no clear destination. Their travels are important and not just because they have nothing else to do, which I think is a big step up from the typical sword and sorcery hero who doesn't have any goals but their own entertainment. It also neatly combines the classic trait of the character being a stranger in a strange land and not quite belonging at their home either with having responsibility to a community. The later is a huge deal in ancient societies, but something that typical Sword & Sorcery heroes never have to deal with. Serving a lord, though very indircetly, also is a very useful resource. Both in money and a safe place to return to, and also as insurance against attacks from locals. Where there is no government and no law, the best protection is to have powerful friends who would be angry if something happens to you and very pleased when someone is helping you.
Which makes me notice another interesting element: The character would also be an ambasador for her people, carrying the responsibility to maintain a good image for her clan. This can be used as a quite strong motivation to help out others even when it's a personal risk and there would be no immediate gain from it. It's also a nice source of internal conflict that can be used endlessly. Even if she really wants to do certain things, she can't allow to make enemies that will come back to be trouble for her people.
The concept also well supports a large range of stories. She can end up in very distant and exotic places at one point, and then go straight to being part of a skirmishing band protecting her home from attackers.

I really think I am on to something here.

As specific character traits, I've been thinking of perhaps having her tend to have a few too many bears in situations where it really would be much wiser to have only one. Not to regularly end up passed out drunk, but frequently being in a somewhat poor condition when she really should be at her best. Could be a bit too cliched, but I think it would fit the personalty of regularly getting too close to the limit and being somewhat careless, and I think it could be written in a way that it's not comically stumbling around and moaning about headache and loud noises.

[somaticon]

Haven't been online for a while but I write poetry and have had work in around a dozen different anthologies. My wife has a fantasy novel out at the moment as well. I'm currently researching for a historical text I'm writing. Oh I also edit and produce an online poetry and arts ezine called A New Ulster.

[Yora]

I just discovered an accidental pseudo-haiku in a chat window mostly covered by another window.

Fingers crossed
Just about Liftoff
Amazing Gravity

[Admiral Squish]

Haikus... Memories.
I once wrote haikus each day.
A writer's cop-out.

[Septimus Faber]

Haikus... Memories.
I once wrote haikus each day.
A writer's cop-out.

Do not insult them.
A haiku, properly formed,
Can be quite profound.

[Admiral Squish]

Do not insult them.
A haiku, properly formed,
Can be quite profound.

You speak the truth, friend.
But for me, 'twas a cop-out.
I explain below.

You see, I resolved
Upon new year's day those years ago:
'write something every day'

I started off well.
Then, the stories grew shorter...
Soon, only haikus.

[AdmiralCheez]

Here's a suggestion
"Haikus For Fun And Profit"
New name of the thread

[Yora]

I finally started writing on my first Sword & Sorcery story. I just read The Tower of the Elephant again yesterday, and realized that even though it's a famous classic, the plot is extremely simplistic. It only has five scenes covering perhaps 15 minutes at the most. I think I can manage something like that, and even if it's crap, it will still be a fun exercise.
All the simple sword & sorcery heroes are barbarians, so I want to do something different, and there are way to many charming thieves and assassins around these days. And while I was falling asleep yesterday, I had the big breakthrough:

Since it's supposed to be exercise and not for publication, I can go full out campy. So why not go with a big dumb brute monster instead of a big dumb brute barbarian? Something like a troll. Or a lizardman.
Like TROGDOR!

So I now started writing "Kalak and the Jungle Demon", which is about a lizardman warrior who goes hunting for a monster that has destroyed some villages. I hope I can make it to 10,000 words.

[Toastkart]

I've been in a writing slump for the past two months (longer if I'm honest). Real life obligations and stresses which I won't detail have robbed me of the energy, impetus, and inspiration to write even though I've really wanted to. For the entire month of November, I wrote maybe a thousand words. Today, however, I broke 3k. It feels good. Maybe I'll get this thing finished one of these days.

[Man on Fire]

Trying to come up with an idea for a story, I just remembered what is probably the ultimate writing tip, that is pretty much guaranteed to get around writers block every time:
"If you can't think of any way how the story could continue, have a man with a gun burst into the room."
It's just perfect. It's action, it's danger, it's a scare, and at least for the moment a completely unexpected twist! It raises so many questions: Who is that man? Why does he have a gun? What does he want? Where does he come from? Does he attack? Is he fleeing from something? Has something happened? Will something happen?! This is soo exciting! The suspense is killing me!
The hardest part is probably to limit yourself to just two or three o those and not create a full avalanche of new plot threads. I think I'll start my Sword & Sorcery story just like that: "It's a quiet winters nights, and without warning the doors of the great hall are trown open, revealing a large man with a wild beard and a bloody sword in his hand..."

Funny thing I remember similair advice for DM. "If your party is getting bored, had a guy with machine gun behind the corner. You'll figure out what he was doing there later".

Anyway, I have been thinking about one thing - how to write character who defeats his enemies by outwitting them? I'm looking for a believable way to do this, not one that makes his opponents look like idiots, has him count on events he had no way of influencing happen exactly like he predicted (Death Note problem) or unbeliveable level of preptime. And sadly I get nothing so far, any ideas?

[Yora]

We are kind discussing this now in the Let's Read Thrawn thread. What I think to be quite important is that the readers need to be able to follow the mastermind characters reasoning step by step. Don't say, "the enemy will do this thing, because I understand how he thinks". Instead explain to the reader on what assumptions he bases his plan, and how based on this assumptions, each step of the plan seems plausible and likely to happen.
And never ever make a plan rely entirely on fact that the character knows, but is kept from the reader. That's just making up facts retroactively.