**league_of_legends_thread_62: show_running_gag_title("The Wins Of Winthur");

[Winthur]

Are we still spoilering the finals?

Judging by how the traffic in this thread completely died down on the day of the finals, I figure nobody cared about them, and for good reason.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think waiting at least a week to openly talk about the finals would be the polite thing to do, while everyone already knows the winner (probably), a lot of people haven't watched the games (for example I've only watched game 1 & 2 so far).

[sonofzeal]

Spoiler

Show

I think the reason there isn't much comment on Worlds Finals is that nobody was particularly surprised. Game three was about the only interesting one, although Game four's Pantheon pick was fun too.

Is it just me or does InSec have the single largest champion pool of any jungler on the pro stage? I've seen him play and win with Lee Sin, Kazix, J4, Elise, Rammus, Pantheon, Fiddlesticks, Shaco, and... I'm sure there's others.

[Anarion]

Spoiler

Show

I think the reason there isn't much comment on Worlds Finals is that nobody was particularly surprised. Game three was about the only interesting one, although Game four's Pantheon pick was fun too.

Is it just me or does InSec have the single largest champion pool of any jungler on the pro stage? I've seen him play and win with Lee Sin, Kazix, J4, Elise, Rammus, Pantheon, Fiddlesticks, Shaco, and... I'm sure there's others.

I think InSec had to branch out after they named the Lee Sin thing after him.

[Math_Mage]

diamond tho

[Legoshrimp]

diamond tho

Oh, is he still on the pro stage? Does champion pool matter if you lose most games?[/snark]

[Winthur]

Oh, is he still on the pro stage? Does champion pool matter if you lose most games?[/snark]

Given that Diamond invented or introduced a ton of jungle picks and ideas to the EU LCS at least, there's nothing to scoff at.

Also, I don't think he was ever the weak link on Gambit.

[sonofzeal]

I'm about two seasons behind in my build paths. What's the recommended build order these days for....

- Tristana

- Rumble

- Veigar

- Ziggs

[Anarion]

I'm about two seasons behind in my build paths. What's the recommended build order these days for....

- Tristana

- Rumble

- Veigar

- Ziggs

Trist: either IE or Shiv first. BF sword is better and probably safer, but can take longer, so there are times when you might want to get the shiv instead, or get a pickaxe then the shiv. Still, you can't go wrong getting BF sword into IE. Third item bloodthirster unless you really need armor pen, then last whisper if you lack it and defensive item to taste.

Rumble: Haunting guise first. You want Liandry's, Rylais, and a Zhonya's, with order depending on what you're facing and how you're personally doing.

Veigar: I don't really know, probably a deathfire grasp? Everybody loves deathfire grasp. You eventually want hat, voidstaff, and a Zhonya's too. You know what, just build large rods, you can't go too far wrong.

Ziggs: Athenes, deathcap, voidstaff, Zhonyas.

[Ashen Lilies]

Veigar: I like some sort of CDR item on him (like Athene's or Morello's) for more stun cages and less downtime on your ult, but it's not as necessary as the triple-rod and void staff on him.

[Mabn]

I tend to grab a nomicon as a first veigar item to make building ap with my q easier. After that I get sorcs and a deathfire.

[GreenSerpent]

So I'm in a really, really bad mood.

The vast majority of my recent matches have been complete noobstomps due to one side having premaded with a vastly higher level player. I've also been matched up with DIAMOND 5 players. Please note my account is LEVEL 26, as in not able to play ranked yet. I've taken to screencapping all my matches in a bid to document how badly the matchmaking system is borked (I can provide pics if wished, but there's currently about 15 pics over ~20 games and it'd take a while to anonymise).

At this rate I'm going to quit before I hit 30 simply because of how imbalanced this shoddy matchmaking is.

To give you a rough idea, my second most recent game had players in the 50-100 wins bracket... okay, okay... and one 1800+ wins player on the other team who proceeded to crush us simply because he was duoed, supposedly, with his brother. My most recent game was a slightly offstandard team with a double bruiser Darius/Blitzcrank bot... and their team was a proper 5-man team with two Silver players and one Platinum.

I could rant for quite some time about this, but I don't want to dirty the thread.[/rant]

[Math_Mage]

Pre-30 normal matchmaking is a right mess. However, keep in mind that outside of complete newbie status, win count is an abysmal way to judge skill level.

[zabbarot]

Pre-30 normal matchmaking is a right mess. However, keep in mind that outside of complete newbie status, win count is an abysmal way to judge skill level.

^This. I think I hit 4000 wins this weekend and I'm still bad. Though I did start actually pushing my win loss positive the last couple weeks Maybe I'll give ranked another shot since I haven't done anything since the middle of Season 3.

[Anarion]

You get diamond 5s because they're grouped with one or more pre-30s themselves. A matchmaker trying to pair people with that wildly disparate level of skill is going to give up and die at some point because the odds of finding another team with just the same composition as yours is so low (not to mention that actual skill level of pre-30s can vary wildly due to smurfs).

If you are getting somebody like that, you should consider yourself lucky, Greenserpent. Pay attention to what the guy does. Respect his zone, look for how he makes plays and gives his team an advantage. Unless he's totally screwing around, you can learn a lot about how to play the game.

[GreenSerpent]

Pre-30 normal matchmaking is a right mess. However, keep in mind that outside of complete newbie status, win count is an abysmal way to judge skill level.

It is, however, a way to judge familiarity with game content and general experience. A 4000 wins player is going to be more familiar with the game mechanics than a 70 wins player.

I'm gonna go run another game after my dinner, see if matchmaking is any better.

EDIT:

Getting completely stomped is not going to teach me better mechanics. It's going to teach me a net total of nothing other than "high level players are better than me".

[Anarion]

It is, however, a way to judge familiarity with game content and general experience. A 4000 wins player is going to be more familiar with the game mechanics than a 70 wins player.

I'm gonna go run another game after my dinner, see if matchmaking is any better.

You say that, but I'm not sure that it's true. A 4,000 win player ought to know something about the game. But there are people who play and play without ever really thinking about their habits and tendencies. 4,000 wins in, they might still walk into an Akali's ult range and get upset when they explode.

[GreenSerpent]

My point is as such though, being stomped is not going to teach me anything. I won't be focusing on what the Plat player does because they, 9/10 times, play an easily snowballed champion who gets ahead really easily. I'll be too busy focusing on "okay, Yi's fed, I should build armour and ward more" or whatnot, rather than focusing on Yi's positioning.

As I said too, 15/20 (approximate) of my last games have been vs people vastly out of my skill level or have had people vastly out of my skill level on my side, the vast majority the former. I've also been matched up with 5-man teams in solo queue.

How on earth am I supposed to improve if I get stomped into the ground each game by people vastly higher level than me? I don't have time to think "what's Yi's positioning like" because I'm thinking "woah, dodge that Q, now return fire, wait no that E is coming out, has dragon been taken..."

(Yi used as example due to his general snowballiness, not because I dislike playing vs him. I also equally dislike Lee Sin, Vi, and especially Yasuo and Braum)

[Dusk Eclipse]

If aanything you can learn about itemization from higher rated players.

In other news, Curse signed Piglet and sent Cop to Curse Academy, thoughs?

[ex cathedra]

If aanything you can learn about itemization from higher rated players.

In other news, Curse signed Piglet and sent Cop to Curse Academy, thoughs?

crs top 3 due to LMQ implosion

[GreenSerpent]

Okay, let's see how bad this match becomes. Level 26, Blind Pick normal, let's see what the balance is like.

EDIT: ADC Twitch, with Braum support. Okay, fair enough... and wow, this is possibly the first match in weeks I've seen where it's only MODERATELY imbalanced. Gotta love having those people who never play normals on your team.

[Anarion]

@Greenserpent: If you hate being stomped, record your games and watch the replays.

If aanything you can learn about itemization from higher rated players.

In other news, Curse signed Piglet and sent Cop to Curse Academy, thoughs?

Curse Academy into LCS soon, much sadness due to that rule that no org can have two teams in the LCS. Piglet kills everyone, complains about his support.

[ex cathedra]

Curse Academy into LCS soon, much sadness due to that rule that no org can have two teams in the LCS.

sadness? liquid is gonna make bank off that team

[NineThePuma]

You say that, but I'm not sure that it's true.

Unless you have the skill set to analyze your opponent's play, getting stomped by a vastly superior opponent just leaves you holding your head in your hands. Most pre-30s (hell, a great deal of level 30s I know) do not have the skill set to analyze.

[Joran]

In other news, Curse signed Piglet and sent Cop to Curse Academy, thoughs?

It's a huge move. When SKT T1 released Piglet and Curse announced that they were going to make an offer, I joked that of course everyone was going to make an offer to Piglet, but he'd never come here. I'm surprised that he did come; it's another name in the exodus of famous players from Korea and with kaKAO and Rookie leaving, among the ones who left in their prime or near prime.

Hopefully, it'll work better than the last time Curse brought in a big name import. It's rough for foreign players to come here and it's going to be hard for him because of the language barrier and un-moored from their support network. Some players like Amazing couldn't handle the isolation, others like Bjergsen have fit in well.

On the face of it, Piglet/Xspecial are going to be pretty awesome and Curse may finally break their Curse, with LMQ and Dignitas essentially dissolving.

This offseason just started and it's going to continue to be bananas. I have no idea where all the teams are going to get junglers.

[GreenSerpent]

Unless you have the skill set to analyze your opponent's play, getting stomped by a vastly superior opponent just leaves you holding your head in your hands. Most pre-30s (hell, a great deal of level 30s I know) do not have the skill set to analyze.

Well, we got stomped. Lucian got a kill and snowballed into infinity (edge) and beyond, our premade top/jungle/mid pretty much fed them kills on a silver platter. I guess that's what comes from having teammates who're level 20+ but have normal games played in the single digits.

I fail to see what I'm supposed to learn from this. Queueing up again for game 6 in my losing streak.

[Math_Mage]

It is, however, a way to judge familiarity with game content and general experience. A 4000 wins player is going to be more familiar with the game mechanics than a 70 wins player.

Hence "outside of complete newbie status."

And to address the later conversation, at 70 wins in you have a ton of learning you can do regardless of how the game goes. Focus on that stuff.

ETA: Also, communication. If you don't think your teammates are helping you in lane, tell them you don't need help. Don't wait until after the game is effectively over to talk about it.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well, we got stomped. Lucian got a kill and snowballed into infinity (edge) and beyond, our premade top/jungle/mid pretty much fed them kills on a silver platter. I guess that's what comes from having teammates who're level 20+ but have normal games played in the single digits.

I fail to see what I'm supposed to learn from this. Queueing up again for game 6 in my losing streak.

Have you considered giving League a rest for a bit? Those kind of losing streaks are like a vicious cycle, you loose one game which angers/stresses you, then you play badly the next game and things just snowball from there on. If you continue you might get burnt out. I suggest you take a break and play other game, preferably ones that doesn't require as much concentration as Lol and then once you feel better you come back to the Summoner's Rift with a fresh mind.

It's a huge move. When SKT T1 released Piglet and Curse announced that they were going to make an offer, I joked that of course everyone was going to make an offer to Piglet, but he'd never come here. I'm surprised that he did come; it's another name in the exodus of famous players from Korea and with kaKAO and Rookie leaving, among the ones who left in their prime or near prime.

Hopefully, it'll work better than the last time Curse brought in a big name import. It's rough for foreign players to come here and it's going to be hard for him because of the language barrier and un-moored from their support network. Some players like Amazing couldn't handle the isolation, others like Bjergsen have fit in well.

On the face of it, Piglet/Xspecial are going to be pretty awesome and Curse may finally break their Curse, with LMQ and Dignitas essentially dissolving.

This offseason just started and it's going to continue to be bananas. I have no idea where all the teams are going to get junglers.

What happened to LMQ and Dignitas? I only knew of Curse signing Piglet because I follow Voyboy on Twitter and he posted it.

[NineThePuma]

I fail to see what I'm supposed to learn from this. Queueing up again for game 6 in my losing streak.

See if anyone on the mumble server is playing minecraft and would mind playing with you. Play an aram, or starcraft, or play something mindless and fun like Superfighters. Or just step away from gaming for a bit.

Like, just take a break.

[ex cathedra]

this is a fairly comprehensive list, via paravine

edit: this is re: roster swaps