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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    To be fair, though, the word "witch" hardly has a sterling reputation either historically or in modern pop culture. It's no longer 100% negative, but I'd hesitate to say it isn't still more of a negative than a positive. At best, we've gotten to the point where we have the classical and iconic "wicked witch" stereotype and maybe a bit of "oh yeah, well there are some good ones, too."
    Warlock, however, never really had another meaning. It means "liar", that's its root. The roots of Witch seem to have a lot of possible meanings. Conjurer, Necromancer, Seer, to sacrifice.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Silver View Post
    Woman = Witch
    Man = Mitch

    My logic is foolproof. In that it is proof that I am a fool.
    Hmmm, dunno. Could make a case for
    Woman=Witch
    Man = Tch

    Which would suggest male witches tut a lot?

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Warlock, however, never really had another meaning. It means "liar", that's its root.
    I wonder what were the first sympathetic characters called warlocks? There's the protagonist of The Magic Goes Away:

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...eMagicGoesAway

    but it seems more like that's his name, not his profession.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlowe View Post
    "Right! Which Warlock warlocked the witch which were locked in the war locker with the worn locks?"

    "Which locker?"

    "War locker!"

    "Which witch in the war locker?"

    "The witch in the war locker that were warlocked!"

    "The witch that were warlocked with the worn locks from the war locker?"

    "Yes! Which Warlock warlocked the witch?"

    "It were Locke."

    "I hate you."
    That's awesome.
    It really annoys me when in Merlin, the dragon keeps referring to him as a Warlock, I can imagine King Uther calling him that, but you'd think the Dragon would be a bit nicer...
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by EccentricCircle View Post
    That's awesome.
    It really annoys me when in Merlin, the dragon keeps referring to him as a Warlock, I can imagine King Uther calling him that, but you'd think the Dragon would be a bit nicer...
    To be fair, the dragon doesn't always seem to like Merlin.



    But more to the point, while the term "oathbreaker" may be part of the etymology, it's worth noting that traditionally, the term "witch" was synonymous with "bride of Satan." I doubt most modern practitioners of the wiccan faith who call themselves "witches" would agree to that definition applying to them.

    In Harry Potter, "witch" just means "female wizard," and "wizard" is the male of "witch." I don't know that Rowling ever used "warlock," nor technically "sorcerer" outside of the American version of the title of the first book. (And I really don't know why they changed "Philosopher's Stone" to "Sorcerer's Stone" for the American version.)

    In Sabrina, the Teenaged Witch and Bewitched, "witch" is the name of the race/species as well as the women thereof, and the men are generally referred to as "warlocks" if it's not being used as a racial identifier. "He's a witch," might be said in the same way that an older text might indicate that "she's (of the race of) Man."

    In D&D, "witch" was a hypothetical cross between wizard and adept written in the DMG to try to show how to design a class. (It wasn't very well done.) "Warlock" is a pretty cool class. In PF, "Witch" is a pretty cool class, and I think, if I squint at it right, it's what PF was trying to make in answer to the Warlock (what with the Hexes trying to match Invocations...but there's no Eldritch Blast equivalent).

    If you decide the male form of "witch" is "warlock" in your fictional setting, the only people who will gainsay you are those who've tried to redefine the words for their own purposes, most of them related to a modern religion. And their redefinition is technically no more or less valid than yours in a real-world sense, and certainly is less so when it comes to discussing your fictional setting. (This is not to invalidate their choice of definition, either, just to indicate that they don't get to dictate to you what your terms in your fictional setting are. Especially not when their own definitions are new and deliberately friendlier than certain older ones.)
    Last edited by Segev; 2014-10-16 at 08:37 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    In Harry Potter, "witch" just means "female wizard," and "wizard" is the male of "witch." I don't know that Rowling ever used "warlock,"
    Just once, as a governmental title roughly equivalent to Chief Justice.

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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    It actually crops up a few times - there's references to rowdy warlocks being thrown out of inns, I think.
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitruviansquid View Post
    I'd go with "Manwich"
    I fondly remember the tale a GM told me about the 'Chicken Slaad Sand Witch'.
    Horribly awesome punning was involved.
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    The etymology of the term witch is hard, likely something to do with divination which is apparently the primary concern of practitioners of the magic arts if the etymologies are anything to go by. However it can apply to both male and female, as well as both good and evil, individuals.

    The terms wizard and warlock are much easier to track down. Wizard meaning an "individual who is characterised by wisdom" and warlock meaning "oathbreaker". It wasn't until the distinction between science and the supernatural was understood that wizards gained their current association with magic. Warlocks on the other hand have always had a negative connotation in regards to unnatural acts, cannibalism, diabolatry, etc. As for how it keeps getting confused as the male version of witch, we probably have the Scottish to thank for that.


    In short, one should probably ask the witch in question what he wants you to call him to avoid any misunderstanding.
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    As for how it keeps getting confused as the male version of witch, we probably have the Scottish to thank for that.
    Because "Oathbreaker" (probably more accurately "covenant breaker") refers to a very specific oath being broken. Which, as said, puts it perfectly in line with the term "Witch" when not referring to modern co-option or older etymology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Just once, as a governmental title roughly equivalent to Chief Justice.
    Rowling's notes of Dumbledore's notes in The Tales of Beedle the Bard say that 'Warlock' is equivelant to a knighthood, or 'Sir'. At some point in time (I can't remember if it applies at the time of the main series or not), it also meant 'argumentitive wizard'.
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    From what I remember of my undergrad, a lot of Middle/Old English uses of witch and it's roots are primarily used for males anyway. Hagtessen was a specifically female term, which is where 'hag' comes from. The popular understanding of witch is an Early Modern invention.

    Choose whatever in-universe term suits your sort of character. It might say 'Witch' on your character sheet, but you might be a shaman, wise man, brujo, magician, scholar of the arcane or whatever suits your concept.

    (For example, if he 5e campaign in my area ever gets started, I want to play a Tiefling Warlock - who is RP'ed as a Shaman/Wise Woman of her Tribe, because she is completely unaware that the Ancestor-Spirit from which she draws her power is a Devil. As far as she is concerned, Great-Grandfather was simply a powerful leader of her people, wise in the ways of magick.)

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    The word "witch" has many different meanings and many different connotations. Depending on the usage, the answer could be one of many things. Ask the DM and other players what they think is appropriate.

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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    To be fair, though, the word "witch" hardly has a sterling reputation either historically or in modern pop culture. It's no longer 100% negative, but I'd hesitate to say it isn't still more of a negative than a positive. At best, we've gotten to the point where we have the classical and iconic "wicked witch" stereotype and maybe a bit of "oh yeah, well there are some good ones, too."
    "Good witches" go back a fair way. Consider "The Wizard of Oz" (published 1900), or Cinderella's "fairy godmother".

    I think it would be fair to say that historically, both "witch" and "warlock" have negative connotations, but a lot of work has been put into rehabilitating the image of "witch" (particularly in the last few decades), whereas virtually no-one has ever tried to portray a sympathetic "warlock".
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrConsideration View Post
    (For example, if he 5e campaign in my area ever gets started, I want to play a Tiefling Warlock - who is RP'ed as a Shaman/Wise Woman of her Tribe, because she is completely unaware that the Ancestor-Spirit from which she draws her power is a Devil. As far as she is concerned, Great-Grandfather was simply a powerful leader of her people, wise in the ways of magick.)
    That's pretty cool, actually. There's a lot you can do with a people whose history is all oral tradition...
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anlashok View Post
    Because "Oathbreaker" (probably more accurately "covenant breaker") refers to a very specific oath being broken. Which, as said, puts it perfectly in line with the term "Witch" when not referring to modern co-option or older etymology.
    I didn't really want to go into that because of the prohibition on discussing religion, but you're right. As you are in regards to the connotations of witchcraft through the ages. The term witch itself though is neutral when divorced from its cultural and historical associations.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Wizard, Witch, Conjurer, Warlock, Sorcerer, Caster, Mage, Magic User, Magician, Enchanter, Magus,

    That's all the various titles for magic users I could find on wikipedia.

    I'm not sure if I actually helped but this is a pretty complete list of names for spell casters.

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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    I think it would be fair to say that historically, both "witch" and "warlock" have negative connotations, but a lot of work has been put into rehabilitating the image of "witch" (particularly in the last few decades), whereas virtually no-one has ever tried to portray a sympathetic "warlock".
    At least in the middle ages it wasn't just the connotations that made 'witch' not as bad as 'warlock', it was denotation. 'Witch' could just as easily be a healer as someone who puts hexes on their neighbors, but 'warlock' never referred to a benevolent magic-user.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff the Green View Post
    At least in the middle ages it wasn't just the connotations that made 'witch' not as bad as 'warlock', it was denotation. 'Witch' could just as easily be a healer as someone who puts hexes on their neighbors, but 'warlock' never referred to a benevolent magic-user.
    I was under the impression that "cunning man" and "cunning woman" were the titles favoured by those who wished to avoid the ire of their neighbours.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2014-10-17 at 01:19 AM.
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa View Post
    Witch is unisex, a title for sorcerous/occult sages. On the other hand warlock is magic speak for traitor or oathbreaker. Basically a warlock is magical Jaime Lannister. Minus the sororial incest with the queen, three inbred bastard children and shoving an innocent little boy off a ledge for catching a glimpse of him humping his sister.
    Dunno. Sounds like most warlocks to me. Look at Morgana leFey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Apparently? Yes.

    But then, again, roots seem to be "weik" and "wikjo", so who knows.

    But yeah, male forms would be "witch" or "wiccan".
    IFF we equate game classes with modern religions which we do not on this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiryt View Post
    Warlock pretty much means 'oath breaker', 'liar', 'betrayer'.

    The 'war' core meaning mostly 'truth, righteousness' which apparently is mostly extinct in English, but doing OK in German - see Wahrsager, 'prophet, fortune teller', literally truth teller.

    Lock is some variation of the 'loga (liar)' core.

    Wiktionary confirms that definition at least.
    I always heard there was relation to Vorlakya(?), myself. Though I'm sure I'm mangling the word – old root for vampire and or werewolf.

    Really need to start fact checking these things, I think.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    My PF witch just called himself a witch. Of course, he was rocking 20 Int/7 Wis/7 Cha, had a level of monk and worked for the Pathfinder Society, so maybe his advice isn't the soundest per se.
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I was under the impression that "cunning man" and "cunning woman" were the titles favoured by those who wished to avoid the ire of their neighbours.
    Apparently that's (for the most part) right. I had thought they also used 'white witch', but it seems that's a term used primarily by folklorists and only rarely by the folk healers and commonfolk. They also were called 'conjurers' (hence 'conjure' as a synonym for 'hoodoo'), 'dry' (related to 'druid'), 'pellars' (from 'expeler') and 'dyn hysbys'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    The reason modern witches don't like the term Warlock is due to two reasons: It got no real good or benevolent etymology. And it implies males got higher status than females. On the positive side; for roleplaying, this might be something one wants to have, since it would make for great villainy. I personally would have preferred to use "Warlock" as a gender neutral term, if used, to avoid perpetuate non-neutral gender tropes.

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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starshade View Post
    The reason modern witches don't like the term Warlock is ... it implies males got higher status than females.
    Wait, how does "warlock" imply higher status than "witch?"

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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Wait, how does "warlock" imply higher status than "witch?"
    Because any gendered term automatically implies higher status than "Witch" because Patriarchy.

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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Today, I learned why The Dresden Files uses the term "warlock" to refer to a wizard who goes rogue and breaks the Laws of Magic.
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    In one setting I'm using, Warlock refers to a mage that fights on the front lines in battle.

    As for what I would call a male witch. Well in the context of D&D I'd probably just call them all witches, just like you call female wizards by the same name. Otherwise I'd generally just use Warlock. Witch hardly means anything positive in etymology any more than warlock does. I also fail to see how the existence of a male term is in of itself somehow sexist. Especially considering witch is still the norm. It's not like anyone's trying to commandeer the word and start calling female witches warlockesses or something dumb like that.
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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire Moose View Post
    One of the players in a PBP game I'm running now is referring to his male witch as a "Witcher".
    Pfffft.

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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Wizard is probably the most technically correct answer.

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    Default Re: How do you call a male witch?

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    "Good witches" go back a fair way. Consider "The Wizard of Oz" (published 1900), or Cinderella's "fairy godmother".
    I am well aware of both of those works, and even being over a hundred years old, The Wizard of Oz is quite recent. And Cinderella doesn't even count because fairies are not the same as witches.

    As a point of reference, the Salem Witch Trials took place in 1692. Witch trials were being conducted by the European inquisitions as early as the 15th century.
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