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    Default The nine (or more) sides

    So, I reread the comic last weekend and I saw the casual comment made by a demon roach about there being at least nine sides. So, I counted in my head and found about nine, so I'll simply show what I found, let me know what you think

    1. The order of the Stick, obviously.
    2. Xykon
    3. Redcloak and the Dark One
    4. The Monster in the darkness
    5. Azure City and the Saphirre Guard
    6. The Vector Legion
    7. Vampire Durkon and Hel
    8. The IFCC
    9 The Greysky Thieves' guild
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    I don't think we can really count the MITD as a side. He could care less about the gates, and is only there because Xykon and Redcloak tell him to be, not because of any interest in a specific outcome.
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    I think somewhere it was stated that we don't know all of the sides yet, that is, not all have been introduced in the story. I tried looking at the index of the Giant's posts for this, but couldn't find it, so I might be mistaken. Still, unless it's been explicitly stated that we have heard of all the sides, it's possible we haven't.

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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I don't think we can really count the MITD as a side. He could care less about the gates, and is only there because Xykon and Redcloak tell him to be, not because of any interest in a specific outcome.
    Well, the reason I included him was because, while it is true he does not want the gates, he is a major character in the story without really being with another side, that is why I put him alone.
    For now, he is allied with Xykon and Redcloak, which makes him part of Team Evil, just like the OOTS and the Sapphire guard are part of "Team Good" (I know it does not exist but they want the gate for the same reason and are allied). Sides can be together to form a bigger side.
    At least, that's my opinion
    English is not my native language, please be indulgent.
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I think somewhere it was stated that we don't know all of the sides yet, that is, not all have been introduced in the story. I tried looking at the index of the Giant's posts for this, but couldn't find it, so I might be mistaken. Still, unless it's been explicitly stated that we have heard of all the sides, it's possible we haven't.
    The only such statement I'm aware of is from one the demon roaches in #548, right after another of them mentioned "at least nine" sides in the first place.
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    Quote Originally Posted by Glodart View Post
    So, I reread the comic last weekend and I saw the casual comment made by a demon roach about there being at least nine sides. So, I counted in my head and found about nine, so I'll simply show what I found, let me know what you think

    1. The order of the Stick, obviously.
    2. Xykon
    3. Redcloak and the Dark One
    4. The Monster in the darkness
    5. Azure City and the Saphirre Guard
    6. The Vector Legion
    7. Vampire Durkon and Hel
    8. The IFCC
    9. The Greysky Thieves' guild
    That time of the month already? (Really this comes up so often all those old threads should be merged and made into a sticky ;)

    10) Well, you forgot the Draketooths (who still existed back then).
    11) And the Linear Guild.
    12) You also forgot the Guardians at Serini's/Kraagor's Gate.
    13) The dwarves may play a larger role soon, making up a side.
    14) The Gods of Good haven't taken a step yet, but since Hel is playing dirty, who knows if Odin/Thor/Marduk/Dragon don't have something on the backburner? Also remember Roy's Archon who is also on a mission.
    15) The Snarl may or may not be considered a power.
    16) The Oracle and Tiamat might be interested in the Gate business as well, although Tiamat doesn't seem to be aware of the IFCC's plot. Yet.
    17) Speaking of "Yet", I wouldn't include the MitD as one of the sides. But since you did, maybe also the Demonroaches themselves are interested. Maybe the last Gate breaks the fourth wall and they will be freed from the comic... ?
    18) Mr. Scruffy must be also be considered a side here.
    19) Hmmm... the gnomes?
    20) Does Bandana have a secret agenda...?

    Okay, the last four are grasping at straws, but we can now finally label a d20.
    Last edited by Onyavar; 2014-10-16 at 02:51 PM. Reason: the last three sides added
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    I don't know about including MitD or the Greysky thieves, since neither of them seem very interested in the Gates. Some other sides you could add are the Order of the Scribble and the Linear Guild.
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    MitD as a side isn't something that makes much sense to me.

    I also wouldn't count the Sapphire Guard. Hinjo specifically said their obligation/oath ended when Soon's Gate did. Now all he cares about are resettling his people and possibly one day retaking his city. He, Lien and O-Chul may be helping Roy, but that doesn't make them a separate faction - that makes them allies of the OotS.

    The GCTG is a possibility though - Bozzok seems to still be interested in Haley and Ian's goings-on, but I foresee them as more interested in the Order than the Gates.

    EDIT: Also, recall that when the roach made his statement, the Linear Guild were still a going concern and they were after the Gates themselves. So it may have been counting them. Though I suppose you could lump them in with the IFCC really.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2014-10-16 at 03:41 PM.
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    The snarl is not a side. The Snarl is a plot device. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...5#post14813005

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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I don't think we can really count the MITD as a side. He could care less about the gates, and is only there because Xykon and Redcloak tell him to be, not because of any interest in a specific outcome.
    Couldn't care less. Literally every other faction could care less, and that says nothing about their state of caring. I know I'm being a bit pedantic here, but that phrase really annoys the crap out of me. I hate it with an unbridled passion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyavar View Post
    Okay, the last four are grasping at straws, but we can now finally label a d20.
    I'm all for that idea.
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Couldn't care less. Literally every other faction could care less, and that says nothing about their state of caring. I know I'm being a bit pedantic here, but that phrase really annoys the crap out of me. I hate it with an unbridled passion.
    Do you also hate the phrase "Fat chance," and others that are always used sarcastically?
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Do you also hate the phrase "Fat chance," and others that are always used sarcastically?
    If I were to list all the things I hate, I would be banned from this forum for the massive flooding that would occur.

    I'm a crotchety old man, is what I'm saying.

    Also, yes.
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    If I were to list all the things I hate, I would be banned from this forum for the massive flooding that would occur.

    I'm a crotchety old man, is what I'm saying.

    Also, yes.
    So, you're saying you couldn't care more about using those phrases?
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    Here are my thoughts on your initial list:

    1. The Azurites and the OOTS are firmly allied; they are working towards the same goals, and have common knowledge of such. I don't think it makes sense to list them as separate sides. (Brings us down to 8.)
    2. The Thieves' Guild has no knowledge of the gates; it's not a part of this conflict. (Brings us down to 7.)
    3. It might make sense to count Sabine as a separate side -- nominally she's working for the IFCC, but there's reason to think she might be disloyal. (Brings us back up to 8.)

    That leaves still one side we don't know about.

    Including the MitD seems questionable, but not totally unreasonable; it seems reasonable to me that he'll eventually get involved. And if we exclude him, that would leave two sides we don't know about... :P
    Last edited by Sniffnoy; 2014-10-18 at 01:00 PM. Reason: syntax
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    Are we seriously making up theories, based on a casual comment made by a roach?

    ...


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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniffnoy View Post
    That leaves still one side we don't know about.
    More, potentially, since the roach said "at least nine". Another side you could add in is the Order of the Scribble. There is also the possibility that another side will be introduced later on, or has already been introduced and we don't know it yet.
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxzan Proditor View Post
    Another side you could add in is the Order of the Scribble.
    If they were still alive, that would give us the potential for multiple more sides, since they're no longer allied with one another! But it's possible that Serini could be one of the sides, if she's still alive.
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    *

    This thread gets started over again every few months. First off, let me point out that I feel that the roaches were making a jokey comment; it may not necessarily be a literal, Word-Of-Giant proclamation as to the number of factions concerned about the gate. I, myself feel that "at least nine sides" is what we should take from their statement, but for all I know it could be more, it could be less or it could actually be exactly nine. We probably won't know 'till the end. My latest take on the breakdown has now been updated as follows:


    Known Sides (which are under no obligation to actually add up to nine):

    The Mortals United (more or less) to Defeat Xykon—This faction is distinct from the gods, because it has been suggested that the gods are withholding information regarding the Rifts and the Snarl. Moreover, it has been implied that the gods might just wait and see what happens—they'll hide somewhere safe again if the world gets destroyed again, and then just return and re-boot it again later. The mortals on the other hand intend to fight to survive. This faction has grown to thus far include The Sapphire Guard, their allies the Elves and, of course, the Order of the Stick.

    Girard Draketooth and his family—This faction is distinct from the The Mortals United to Defeat Xykon, due to their ideological differences with Soon and the Saphire Guard. Girard and Soon felt that they had to protect the Rifts not only from the forces evil, but from each other. Serini, another former member of the Order of the Scribble, may still be an ally or representative of this side, making her the last survivor of the faction. If not, then this side has been completely wiped out.

    Xykon—the epic lich sorcerer who wants to take control of the Gates, mainly just because he can. He intends to use the power of the Gates for his own evil amusement. His pawns include Redcloak (who actually belongs to another side), and the Monster in the Darkness (who will probably turn on him, thanks to the guidance of the Paladin O-Chul). His only other pawn (and the only one truly loyal to him), Tsukiko, is now dead.

    The Dark One—and his High Priest, Redcloak. The Dark One is apparently prepared to use the Snarl as a tool for blackmailing the gods, and is willing to either kill the gods or to unmake reality if his demands are not met. Now that the Dark One is a god, himself, he expects to be able to survive the destruction, like the gods managed to do last time, and then be a part of the process of remaking the next world.

    The Gods—beings who allegedly want to keep the Snarl imprisoned, for their own protection and incidentally for the benefit of the world. They seem to have a lot in common with the Mortals United to Defeat Xykon, but would apparently abandon the mortals in order to save themselves, or unmake the world and re-bind the Snarl more securely. The gods who were/are secretly aiding and advising The Dark One (Loki, I think? And Rat? And Tiamat?) might be on that side, or belong to a faction of their own (see below).

    The IFCC (The Inter-Fiend Cooperation Commission)—An Infernal Alliance that now knows of the gates that imprison the Snarl. Their stated goal is to storm the Gates of Heaven in a properly Milton-like fashion, probably using the Snarl as a weapon. Assuming they're telling the truth. Their pawns include Sabine and any surviving members of The Linear Guild, Quaar, and now that they have a brief claim on her/his soul, Vaarsuvius is probably their ace-in-the-hole.


    Possible Sides:

    Tarquin's Party/The Vector Legion—The Secret Masters of the Empires of Blood, Sweat and Tears. We haven't enough information at this time to conclude that they are or will be a faction. It is possible that they will now be interested in exploring and exploiting this set of "rifts" that they've recently discovered, and Laurin may have discovered some new information. Or she may have gotten killed

    Dorukan the Wizard and Lirian the Druid—We have seen that these two former members of the Order of the Scribble continued to have (very) friendly contact after their party split up. We haven't enough information at this time, however, to conclude that they were a separate faction, although they could have been alienated by both Soon and/or Girard, and even if they had no ill-will for those two, they may have been driven away by the feud between them. Serini, the only member of the Order of the Scribble still unaccounted for, may be allied with the Druid and the Wizard.

    Serini—Serini, if she's still alive, could be her own side, belong to someone else's side or she could have formed a whole organization like Soon's Paladins or Girard's family. We just have no idea what she's been up to since she built the Dungeon of Kraagor's Tomb.

    The Snarl—a creature that, to the best of my knowledge, has only been depicted in flashbacks relating second-hand historical events has just made its first awesome appearance, and that allegedly wants to unmake the world and kill the gods. No known pawns or sub-factions. The Snarl seems to be an unthinking plot-device, but should it turn out to have sentience at some point, and should it consciously chose to oppose other factions in some way, it could then be considered a side.

    Inhabitants of the Inner World—Any people living on the world that may exist within the Rifts would probably have their own priorities, though what they are remains unknown at this time. Perhaps they want to see the Snarl destroyed, or maybe that's the last thing that they want. Maybe the Greek Pantheon is in there, too. Their agenda, if they have one (if they even know about the outside world... and assuming there are even people on this planet!) remains uncertain.

    The Oracle/Tiamat/their teleporting-and-resurrecting-lizardmen-lizardfolk-buddies—We haven't enough information at this time to conclude that they are or will be a faction.


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    The gods who aided and advised The Dark One during his apotheosis (and perhaps still are aiding and advising him?). I think I remember Loki defending the Dark One from the other gods? And Rat? And Tiamat? They might be on the side of the gods, but I suspect they belong to a faction of their own, and they are manipulating the Dark One.


    Hel—Looks like I've got to add Hel and her agent Durkon, or rather, the-vampire/spirit-in-possession-of-Durkon's-body, as a possible side. So far she hasn't specifically mentioned the Gates, but her allusions to a plan that will bring the world to ruin and bring Thor to his knees suggest that she might want control of the Gate.

    The Greysky City Thieves' Guild—It is possible that Bozzak will follow up on the information regarding Haley's journey to the North. At this time they do not appear to have any knowledge about the Gates.


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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    Quote Originally Posted by Windscion View Post
    The snarl is not a side. The Snarl is a plot device. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...5#post14813005
    I could put up the Giant's posts about non-theistic vampire clerics and later posts about purposely obfuscating the fact that Durkula was no longer Durkon and a cleric of Hel, However, screw it, the way the Giant speaks her is pretty hands down saying the Snarl is nothing more than a MacGuffin and is not intending to obfuscate here.

    On the other hand, if the Snarl only later reveals it is conscious, has an agenda, and must be engaged directly, I surmise nothing he said actually precludes the possibility, since he only addresses criticism of the current plotline.
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    Default Re: The nine (or more) sides

    1. Good Guys
    2. Xykon
    3. Redcloak
    4. Linear Guild (Sabine's loyalty to Nale even in death will have her act as a wild card and not be completely loyal to the Directors)
    5. IFCC
    6. Tarquin
    7. Hel and her high priest
    8. Jirix and the Dark One
    9. Shoulder Pad Guy
    Last edited by Gift Jeraff; 2014-10-28 at 10:09 AM.
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