Temictli Tzitziquiltic Amoxtli Nonotzaloc: Ichtacacalaquia

[Ssalarn]

Once I dealt with the nosebleed from trying to read that out loud, I got pretty interested in what I was looking at. Gonna keep an eyeball on this...

[Fax Celestis]

Once I dealt with the nosebleed from trying to read that out loud, I got pretty interested in what I was looking at. Gonna keep an eyeball on this...

Well, if it works well enough, I might end up doing akashic-tzocatl crossover.

[Snowbluff]

This might benefit from a less complicated title. DON'T HIT ME!

[Ilorin Lorati]

Still don't know how I feel about this, since as I mentioned the first time it came up, I think Interjection Games has already done a good job with truenaming mechanics.

[Ssalarn]

Well, if it works well enough, I might end up doing akashic-tzocatl crossover.

We could call it "Trueveiling" or less ridiculously "Tezapoctli" (meaning "smoking mirror"), and you could speak veils into existence and animate them Sorcerer's Apprentice style. Each round the DC rises to keep your creation in existence until it pops as the strain of the universe self-correcting shatters the tenuous bonds you've imposed. We could do a line of feats that include effects like making it so that when you fail the check and the veil pops, it explodes in a torrent of arcane energy, or creates an untargeted dispel effect in a 10' radius.

**EDIT**

I was originally going to make some corny name jokes and then ask what you had in mind, but the more I read what I wrote the awesomer it feels to me. Instead of true veils, it could be summoned creatures that act like veils, and we could even do an archetype that takes small amounts of bleed damage to fill the creatures with essence.

[Fax Celestis]

We could call it "Trueveiling" or less ridiculously "Tezapoctli" (meaning "smoking mirror"), and you could speak veils into existence and animate them Sorcerer's Apprentice style. Each round the DC rises to keep your creation in existence until it pops as the strain of the universe self-correcting shatters the tenuous bonds you've imposed. We could do a line of feats that include effects like making it so that when you fail the check and the veil pops, it explodes in a torrent of arcane energy, or creates an untargeted dispel effect in a 10' radius.

[deuxhero]

I like the culture choice (as mentioned in the thread, very few use it) and would like to see truenaming actually WORK. I think you need further distance when using an extant language as a basis and definitely some way to make it more comprehensible. One option might be to give more easily said aliases to things (if speaking the word has serious consequences, I'd expect those studying them would have some alternative to saying them in a "he who must not be named" fashion).

Mechanically:
Nameless curse:
The initial effect is really painful. Durations will quickly be "the entire fight" anyways and many negative effects with a duration don't actually target you (example: entangle). Combining it with a Extended spell is a bit odd thanks to minimums and rounding.
The 5th level effect of the Curse is so underwhelming because Power Words are. I see there are some new ones introduced in the book, but that's awful niche.
15 is way too late for language dependent immunity, as language-dependent is a drawback keeping spells taged with it low level (the only spells above level 5 with it are some of Brilliant Inspiration and Vengeful Outrage (both buffs) some of the Litany line and Unconscious Agenda. Also there's a bit of an unstoppable force/immovable object with the spell called, funnily enough, Truespeak from the ARG (You aren't effected by language-dependent effects vs your language dependent effects WILL work).

I'd suggest the initial ability allow you to quarter harmful effects and making the 5th level ability make Litany spells allow a save for the Oracle

Bloodline is hard to judge without knowing the feats or spells.

I hope to see SOMETHING on giant talking stone heads.

[Anlashok]

You perhaps considering doing anything more complex than "roll skill, cast spell?".

I've always been intrigued by the idea of adding language-based components to Truenaming, since it's word-magic. Prefixes, suffixes, compound words. Pluraling, changing the tense. Probably not, I imagine, since that's basically a less crappy Words of Power rather than Truenaming (even if fluffwise they're the same thing).

We could call it "Trueveiling" or less ridiculously "Tezapoctli" (meaning "smoking mirror"), and you could speak veils into existence and animate them Sorcerer's Apprentice style. Each round the DC rises to keep your creation in existence until it pops as the strain of the universe self-correcting shatters the tenuous bonds you've imposed. We could do a line of feats that include effects like making it so that when you fail the check and the veil pops, it explodes in a torrent of arcane energy, or creates an untargeted dispel effect in a 10' radius.

**EDIT**

I was originally going to make some corny name jokes and then ask what you had in mind, but the more I read what I wrote the awesomer it feels to me. Instead of true veils, it could be summoned creatures that act like veils, and we could even do an archetype that takes small amounts of bleed damage to fill the creatures with essence.

I really like this idea, in part because Aztec themed veilweaving sounds really cool (and makes me wish that was the base theme instead of central and western asia).

I mean no offense to Fax, just don't really get how it gels with skillcheck based spellcasting.

[Manly Man]

While the material has some Aztec themes, (bastardized) Nahuatl is used mainly for the "example words" that go with each edict. Everything else is in plain English for ease of use at your individual tables.

I chose Nahuatl mostly because I like how it sounds, because Aztec culture is not often represented in D&D, and because the kinds of words it makes lends themselves towards an "ancient unknowable language" sort of feeling.

Really is a shame, the closest that Central American cultures got for attention was waaay back with First Edition AD&D Deities & Demigods. I went and made a psionic villain pair with a Thrallherd named Gaylord Asselin (don't laugh, you!), and his thrall was an Aztec warrior woman (gestalt Psychic Warrior//Warblade) that was even scarier than him. Was a very fun character, and she ended up siding with the party's half-giant, who sympathized with her and the mind control, once Old Greg died. Her name was Chachiuitl Yaotl, and she used a cold iron executioner's mace called Teotepoz, which I think translates to "gods' iron", or summat.

[Fax Celestis]

Hint: Tzocatl isn't a skill. A Tzocatl check is d20+1/2 class level+Int. Much more controllable values, which makes edicts have much more easily definable emphases and cadences.

I originally had it as a Linguistics check, but the values were just too unpredictable and ran into the same problems that the Truenamer has. So the advocate isn't really like the Truenamer: it's more like a warlock with Tome of Battle and psionics elements.

Edicts always go off, no matter your check result. Their scalability is based off your check, and you get to build your spell as you cast by spending your check on cadences or keeping it for emphases (or some combination of the two). Litanies are...functionally identical to stances, except their effects vary based on your Tzocatl check made at activation. And both edicts and litanies have esoterica, individual per edict, that advocates gain through their levels, which allows you to dynamically customize your character based both upon their known edicts and then the esoterica they learn from those edicts.

I haven't even gotten into Inscribed Barbarians and Inscribed Cryptics yet. Or the race template I came up with. Or the fighter archetype that integrates seamlessly with Lore Warden. Or all kinds of stuff.

[Raven777]

This actually sounds pretty interesting! Does the Advocate integrate elements tied to outsider true names and binding / summoning?

[Fax Celestis]

Not as of yet but I'm planning on doing so with an archetype.

As it is now the knight-scholar is actually a better minioner than the advocate: knight-scholars don't get edicts, just litanies, but they can use multiples at once, so using litany of living words means you get a nice pet and can still use other litanies.

[Extra Anchovies]

Is this homebrew, then? If so it should probably be moved...

[Dusk Eclipse]

Nope, Fax is working with/for Dreamscarred Press and he is giving us a sneak peak of what's to come. Or at least that is my understanding of it.

Also kudos on having Aztec influences.

[Arbane]

Really is a shame, the closest that Central American cultures got for attention was waaay back with First Edition AD&D Deities & Demigods.

ISTR there was a 2nd Ed sourcebook for an Aztec-ish empire. (Found it: Maztica.)

[Zanos]

Have you used a camera to take a photo of your computer screen to upload?

That makes me incredibly angry.

(Truenaming is neat though.)

[Fax Celestis]

Have you used a camera to take a photo of your computer screen to upload?

That makes me incredibly angry.

(Truenaming is neat though.)

I did that to add to the mystique. Future shots will be more...conventional.

[PsyBomb]

We could call it "Trueveiling" or less ridiculously "Tezapoctli" (meaning "smoking mirror"), and you could speak veils into existence and animate them Sorcerer's Apprentice style. Each round the DC rises to keep your creation in existence until it pops as the strain of the universe self-correcting shatters the tenuous bonds you've imposed. We could do a line of feats that include effects like making it so that when you fail the check and the veil pops, it explodes in a torrent of arcane energy, or creates an untargeted dispel effect in a 10' radius.

**EDIT**

I was originally going to make some corny name jokes and then ask what you had in mind, but the more I read what I wrote the awesomer it feels to me. Instead of true veils, it could be summoned creatures that act like veils, and we could even do an archetype that takes small amounts of bleed damage to fill the creatures with essence.

Two words: Metabolist Scarf

[Manly Man]

ISTR there was a 2nd Ed sourcebook for an Aztec-ish empire. (Found it: Maztica.)

Many thanks, mang.

[squiggit]

We could call it "Trueveiling" or less ridiculously "Tezapoctli" (meaning "smoking mirror"), and you could speak veils into existence and animate them Sorcerer's Apprentice style. Each round the DC rises to keep your creation in existence until it pops as the strain of the universe self-correcting shatters the tenuous bonds you've imposed. We could do a line of feats that include effects like making it so that when you fail the check and the veil pops, it explodes in a torrent of arcane energy, or creates an untargeted dispel effect in a 10' radius.

**EDIT**

I was originally going to make some corny name jokes and then ask what you had in mind, but the more I read what I wrote the awesomer it feels to me. Instead of true veils, it could be summoned creatures that act like veils, and we could even do an archetype that takes small amounts of bleed damage to fill the creatures with essence.

I suddenly want to play a Jaguar Warrior who can literally manifest jaguar claws

[malonkey1]

I'm not gonna lie, I'll probably use this when it comes out, but I'm probably gonna throw out the Aztec-ish flavor. For me, truenaming was always a Babylonian or Hebrew soundalike. I have nothing against the Aztec theme itself, I just feel like, maybe, this isn't the system to go with it.

[Extra Anchovies]

I'm not gonna lie, I'll probably use this when it comes out, but I'm probably gonna throw out the Aztec-ish flavor. For me, truenaming was always a Babylonian or Hebrew soundalike. I have nothing against the Aztec theme itself, I just feel like, maybe, this isn't the system to go with it.

Agreed. I've always thought of Incarnum, especially Totemists, as being the most aztec-ish of the supplemental magic systems, followed by soul binding.

[Larkas]

I'm not gonna lie, I'll probably use this when it comes out, but I'm probably gonna throw out the Aztec-ish flavor. For me, truenaming was always a Babylonian or Hebrew soundalike. I have nothing against the Aztec theme itself, I just feel like, maybe, this isn't the system to go with it.

Now that you've said it... Babylonian makes a LOT of sense.

[Fax Celestis]

I suddenly want to play a Jaguar Warrior who can literally manifest jaguar claws

Funny you should mention that.

Spoiler

Show

[EisenKreutzer]

I like the ancient south-american / aztec flavour for this. Not only is it a damn cool culture that feels exotic and has lots of potential in terms of depth, but it's so rarely used. The aztecs, inca and mayans had advanced tchnology, mathmatics and astrology, and particularly the astrology link makes it a good fit IMO.

[Raven777]

I'm not gonna lie, I'll probably use this when it comes out, but I'm probably gonna throw out the Aztec-ish flavor. For me, truenaming was always a Babylonian or Hebrew soundalike. I have nothing against the Aztec theme itself, I just feel like, maybe, this isn't the system to go with it.

I was reading about the Golem of Prague earlier today and, sure enough, the Kabbalah does have a kind of truenaming tradition.

[Fax Celestis]

I was planning on making kabbalistic golems too, actually, using scribed edicts.

[Psyren]

It's Aztec for "unique fluff, you can't sue us!"

Dotting for later.

EDIT:

We could call it "Trueveiling" or less ridiculously "Tezapoctli" (meaning "smoking mirror"), and you could speak veils into existence and animate them Sorcerer's Apprentice style. Each round the DC rises to keep your creation in existence until it pops as the strain of the universe self-correcting shatters the tenuous bonds you've imposed. We could do a line of feats that include effects like making it so that when you fail the check and the veil pops, it explodes in a torrent of arcane energy, or creates an untargeted dispel effect in a 10' radius.

This guy. This guy right here. [thumbsup.jpg]

[Sayt]

I'm not gonna lie, I'll probably use this when it comes out, but I'm probably gonna throw out the Aztec-ish flavor. For me, truenaming was always a Babylonian or Hebrew soundalike. I have nothing against the Aztec theme itself, I just feel like, maybe, this isn't the system to go with it.

Babylonian and Hebrew are the obvious choices, but I think there's actually value to be found in the unexpected option adn the unexplored road.

Looking forwards to it!

[Psyren]

Considering I have an inkling of how to pronounce Spanish, and absolutely none for pronouncing Babylonian or Hebrew, the choice is pretty clear for me.