The most powerful entities of Planescape

[HammeredWharf]

What are they? I know of archdevils, Elder Evils and various other popular antagonists, but are there any bigger guys around? I don't necessarily need a well-documented being. It could be a rumored threat, an old legend... anything, really. Any pointers? Bonus points if it's evil and/or insane and/or very obscure.

The Lady of Pain comes pretty close to what I'm looking for, but I'd prefer not to use her directly.

No, Pun-Pun isn't the guy I'm looking for.

[hamishspence]

Draedens? May or may not be related to The Sleeping Ones.

http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index....ge_Before_Ages

Fiendish Codex I mentions immense living creatures known as draedens who existed before the planes existed, including one called Ulgurshek who fell asleep while the Abyss formed around it. The draedens were first mentioned in the Dungeons & Dragons Immmortal Set, which described the draedens as clusters of mouths and tentacles the size of demiplanes who were descendants of beings who may have created the multiverse long before the time of the Immortals. They despise elemental material, seeing everything but perfect void as an unwelcome imposition in their domain. After a period of war and strife ending at least 200 million years ago, the draedens retired, deciding to outlast their enemies by waiting until the rest of creation destroyed itself.

The Inner Planes campaign expansion for the Planescape campaign mentions beings called the Sleeping Ones by the kuo-toa, monumental creatures who caused the multiverse to come into being and then severed contact with the cosmos, sealing themselves away in the Paraelemental Plane of Ice until their powers are needed again. These creatures, said to be many, many miles long, inspire a numbing awe in those explorers who venture near the tombs in which they dream until the end of days.

[HammeredWharf]

I'll have to take a closer look, but they seem to fit perfectly. Thanks!

[BWR]

What are they? I know of archdevils, Elder Evils and various other popular antagonists, but are there any bigger guys around? I don't necessarily need a well-documented being. It could be a rumored threat, an old legend... anything, really. Any pointers? Bonus points if it's evil and/or insane and/or very obscure.

The Lady of Pain comes pretty close to what I'm looking for, but I'd prefer not to use her directly.

No, Pun-Pun isn't the guy I'm looking for.

If you're talking Planescape, not all the planar stuff that came later, you are kind of out of luck since they didn't go much in for talking about power levels. Elder Evils (with the exception of Tharizdun) whatnot didn't really come around until later. Mostly it's vague hints for DMs to develop or not as they see fit.

Off the top of my head:

- The Lord of the Ninth. None of this Asmodeus nonsense that came about later. No one knows who or what it is or much of anything beyond the rumored existence - all the other Lords of Nine bow to something, it's just presumably so far beyond the others in power that i can keep them in line.
- Whatever used the language of the Last Word. When Orcus died and Tenebrous arose, he found ancient ruins on Pelion
- whatever is trapped in lowest layer of Elysium

Probably quite a few one-liners in various books I've forgotten.

Technically, Draedens and Old Ones aren't really a part of the PS multiverse, since BECMI/Mystara's multiverse was a quite different animal. PS made some half-hearted attempts to bring Mystara in with an off-hand mention of a Draeden layer ofthe Abyss (doesn't really work) and a shadow elf NPc in Uncaged (and a handful of minor mentions other places), but the Old Ones weren't ever mentioned that I can remember. The two multiverses and assumptions about how things work don't really work together. Old Ones, btw, are to Immorals (gods) what Immortals are to mortals.

[hamishspence]

How about the Powers, as described here?

http://mimir.net/essays/sourcesofpower.html

next step up from gods, but a step below "The Source". Possibly not even sentient.

[HammeredWharf]

If you're talking Planescape, not all the planar stuff that came later, you are kind of out of luck since they didn't go much in for talking about power levels. Elder Evils (with the exception of Tharizdun) whatnot didn't really come around until later. Mostly it's vague hints for DMs to develop or not as they see fit.

I'm not too picky when it comes to sources. I'd prefer things mentioned in 3e/3.5e sourcebooks like Manual of the Planes, Elder Evils, Fiend Folio, etc.. This topic has already been quite helpful, especially because I can use the ones that don't fit fully as red herrings or ideas tossed by NPCs.

[Brookshw]

Add Primus to that list, not quite god status but pretty close. He's missing from the list of powers linked it seems.

The ruler of Khin Oin and the General for the 'Loth's presumably are highly powerful I'd imagine, especially the latter. Baernloth's would be a step down but are probably on par with archdevils et al. The Slaad lords again are pretty powerful in their own right.

The Vaati probably should have some power. Genie/ish lords.

Really, Planescape has a pretty large cast and I could go on for a while. You might want to bring the question to Afro's thread for suggestions.

[hamishspence]

Manual of the Planes mentions city-sized monsters "and these are just the smaller ones" visible in the distance, when characters go to the Far Realm. Far Realm creatures and Elder Evils sometimes overlap.

[atemu1234]

Manual of the Planes mentions city-sized monsters "and these are just the smaller ones" visible in the distance, when characters go to the Far Realm. Far Realm creatures and Elder Evils sometimes overlap.

I do love me a goood far realm creature. Some beings that are so alien that they drive players mad... roll a will save, everybody.

[afroakuma]

What precisely are you looking for, HammeredWharf? I can point you to the right thing if I know what profile it has to fit.

[sonofzeal]

I've always liked the Ancient Baatorians in this category. There are areas in the Nine Hells where even archdevils do not go. The Lord of the Ninth, quite possibly the most powerful non-divine entity outside of the Far Realm, managed to trap them there - but even he couldn't destroy them, and even imprisoned they scare the everloving crud out of Baator's current denisons.

It's relevant, too, that the Lord of the Ninth is the most powerful non-divine entity, since Baatorians specifically screw up any and all divine energy in their viscinity. They're god-killers, and powerful enough individually to take on just about anything short of a god. The Lord of the Ninth is not just unimaginably powerful but is also by far the single greatest chessmaster in the cosmos, and they give him problems on sheer potency alone.

No stats for them exist outside of a single representative in Elder Evils, and even that one's got some funny things going on. And there's a race of those guys.

[Phelix-Mu]

I do love me a goood far realm creature. Some beings that are so alien that they drive players mad... roll a will save, everybody.

I've included several bizarre Far Realm excursions in my campaigns, usually with lots of Will saves vs confusion/headache and eyes-bleeding effects. One that I remember well was a crystalline entity composed of millions of individual personality slivers, all chiming together in a mental chorus so horrible that it sounds good to the ear as it liquifies the brain of the listener. It floated among rainbow clouds full of glass shards of crystal, surrounded by subjective gravity and the corpses of the normal vegetable vermin that phase between the various transparent layers of that area of the Far Realm (the shrubs that ventured too close spontaneously grew minds as they were seeded with crystal parasites, minds which then imploded under the weight of the mental "singing" of the entity).

The whole scene could have taken place in Celestia, with bright light and pretty colors...except Celestia doesn't cause your brain to leak out of your ears.

[EisenKreutzer]

How about the Powers, as described here?

http://mimir.net/essays/sourcesofpower.html

next step up from gods, but a step below "The Source". Possibly not even sentient.

That's not official PLanescape material as far as I can tell.
In Planescape, all gods, archdevils and demon lords and whathaveyous were referred to as Powers. THere was no distinction between them, and Powers wasn't a category on it's own, it was just catch-all term for the movers and shakers of the planes.

[Brookshw]

That's not official PLanescape material as far as I can tell.
In Planescape, all gods, archdevils and demon lords and whathaveyous were referred to as Powers. THere was no distinction between them, and Powers wasn't a category on it's own, it was just catch-all term for the movers and shakers of the planes.

That's not quite accurate. Usually gods earn the tag "powers", for example planes of law, the baator piece, under powers, gods are listed. The arch devils are covered later.

[EisenKreutzer]

That's not quite accurate. Usually gods earn the tag "powers", for example planes of law, the baator piece, under powers, gods are listed. The arch devils are covered later.

Take a look at his bibliography for your first linked page:

Bibliography
Baker, Rich, Rob Heinsoo, and James Wyatt. Manual of the Planes. Renton, WA: Wizards of the Coast, 2008.
Baker, Rich, James Jacobs, and Steve Winter. Lords of Madness. Renton, WA: Wizards of the Coast, 2005.
Baur, Wolfgang. "A Gathering of Winds." Dungeon #129. Bellevue, WA: Paizo Publishing, 2005.
Cook, Monte with William W. Connors. The Inner Planes. Renton, WA: TSR, 1998.
Holian, Gary. "Silent Sorcery: The Silent Ones of Keoland." Living Greyhawk Journal #4. Renton, WA: Wizards of the Coast, 2001.
Jacobs, James. "Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Dagon." Dragon #349. Bellevue, WA: Paizo Publishing, 2006.
-----. "Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Demogorgon." Dragon #357. Bellevue, WA: Paizo Publishing, 2007.
-----. "The Ecology of the Kaorti." Dragon #358. Bellevue, WA: Paizo Publishing,
Laws, Robin D., and Robert J. Schwalb. Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells. Renton, WA: Wizards of the Coast, 2006.
McComb, Colin, and Monte Cook. Hellbound: The Blood War. Lake Geneva, WI: TSR, 1996.
Mentzer, Frank. Dungeons & Dragons Immortals Set. Lake Geneva, WI: TSR, 1987.
Mona, Erik. Age of Worms Overload. Bellevue, WA: Paizo Publishing, 2005.[1]
-----. "The Whispering Cairn." Dungeon #124. Bellevue, WA: Paizo Publishing, 2005.
Pramas, Chris. Guide to Hell. Renton, WA: Wizards of the Coast, 1999.
Schwalb, Robert J. Elder Evils. Renton, WA: Wizards of the Coast, 2007.
Stark, Ed, James Jacobs, and Erik Mona. Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss. Renton, WA: Wizards of the Coast, 2006.
Varney, Allen, ed. Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix. Lake Geneva, WI: TSR, 1994.

Notice how many books were published a decade or more after Planescape was discontinued, and how few of the old ones are actual Planescape titles. The same holds true of the second page you linked, which in fact does not provide any legitimate sources at all.

Your definition of "Power" may be novel and interesting, but it's not supported in Planescape canon. It is in fact fan-made.

[...]

The Aboleth Quasi-Deities known as the Elder Evils. If you were referring to these Elder Evils in our post and not the ones in the book of the same name, I apologize in advance. These guys are so powerful, they don't HAVE stats. These guys are so powerful, one of the books that they are contained in suggests that you could use Great Old Ones to replace them. What's even better than all that? Almost no one knows they exist, both IC and OOC. They are only mentioned in a few books, and at least one of them (arguably at least two of them) was not even given a location.

[Brookshw]

Take a look at his bibliography for your first linked page:



Notice how many books were published a decade or more after Planescape was discontinued, and how few of the old ones are actual Planescape titles. The same holds true of the second page you linked, which in fact does not provide any legitimate sources at all.

Your definition of "Power" may be novel and interesting, but it's not supported in Planescape canon. It is in fact fan-made.

And you're dead wrong. The example I just offered you is from official planescape material. Here, let me cut and paste the section from Planes of Law for you that I mentioned.

Spoiler: Planes of Law

Show

THg PeWERS
There’s no surfeit of powers who make their home on Baator. Many of those
who do aren’t even human. Among these are Bargrivyek of the goblins, Kurtulmak
of the koholds, and Sekolah of the sahuagins. There’re also powers
worshiped mainly by humans, hut they’ve got some inhuman followers as
well. These deities include Set of the Egyptian pantheon, Hecate of the Greek
(she keeps her secondary realm here - her primary realm is in the Gray
Waste), and Takhisis of Krynn.
Most people don’t seem to realize that Takhkis and Tiamat, mother of the
evil dragons, are awfully similar. There‘s some who say they’re the same,
since their avatars both appear as five-headed dragons of many colors and
command the respect of evil dragonkind. Other bloods, equally as knowledgeable,
assert that Takhisis and Tiamat are as different as night and day. They
point out that the denizens of Krynn revere Takhisis as a greater power, while
Tiamat’s nothing more than a glorified watchdog to the second layer of Baator.
(Both sides have a piece of the truth, hut the dark of it is that no oni
really knows.) Still others say Tiamat’s a reflection of Takhisis, and they leavt
it at that. Regardless of the truth, both Takhisis and Tiamat are fiendishly
clever and possess godlike powers. They’re probably better left alone, and
that’s all anyone really needs to know.
Certainly there are more powers living on Baator. So many creatures follow
law and evil that it’s hard to imagine that the ones noted above are all the
powers living in the Nine Hells. Doubtless there are others who have chosen
to remain hidden, or others who simply haven’t advertised their presence too
widely.

Note I didn't link anything, so I don't know why you're saying I did. Also note how there is no mention of the arch devils here. Oddly though, in your favor, Planes of Chaos does consider the demon lords to be the equivalent of powers though it likewise lists many gods in the Abyss section. It's a bit of an inconsistency across the books, but most of them treat gods as "powers" with some exceptions for otherwise powerful entities.

[Asrrin]

What precisely are you looking for, HammeredWharf? I can point you to the right thing if I know what profile it has to fit.

This guy seriously knows his stuff. If anyone can give you exactly what you need, it's Afro.

[HammeredWharf]

What precisely are you looking for, HammeredWharf? I can point you to the right thing if I know what profile it has to fit.

It's... not that precise. I just have a McGuffin in my campaign and I need to explain its origins. It's (probably) a body part of something, but that something has to be noticeably more powerful than the likes of Asmodeus for the story to work. It's definitely evil, so the first thing that came to mind was Tharizdun, but I'm looking for alternatives to use as fluff (so that it's not "Roll Knowledge -> Ok, it's Tharizdun's kidney.") or even replacement, because the story arc hasn't started yet.

[BWR]

That's not official PLanescape material as far as I can tell.

Hey, anything on the Mimir, like anything by Rip, is practically canon by virtue of awesomeness.

[ShurikVch]

Neth, the Plane That Lives


General of Gehenna

But the strongest is, probably, the Abyss itself:

The Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss sourcebook suggests that the Abyss may be alive, and that it spawns demons out of its urge to spread chaos and destruction.

Also, from the Dragon #357, pg. 30:

... Yet the deities of this forgotten pantheon did not expect the Abyss to react as it did.
Even as they cast N'gharl into the Astral Plane, the void left behind by the layer's destruction lashed out - the Abyss itself reacted reflexively, like a hungry predator awakened from an eons long torpor. It struck at these deities who dared destroy even such a fragmentary part of it, and in an instant annihilated the entire pantheon. All that remained were the pantheon's memories and dreams, and the Abyss seized even these. Today, the empty space that once held N'gharl is known as the Dreaming Gulf, and the dreams of those dead deities have been transformed into an entirely new race of demons known as the loumaras.

[afroakuma]

It's... not that precise. I just have a McGuffin in my campaign and I need to explain its origins. It's (probably) a body part of something, but that something has to be noticeably more powerful than the likes of Asmodeus for the story to work. It's definitely evil, so the first thing that came to mind was Tharizdun, but I'm looking for alternatives to use as fluff (so that it's not "Roll Knowledge -> Ok, it's Tharizdun's kidney.") or even replacement, because the story arc hasn't started yet.

I suppose it depends what you want it to tie into. If it's the Far Realm or an aberrant source, it could be a crystallized bit of the Blood Queen's slime from the time when she first brushed the Prime Material Plane, or the preserved brain of the last mindflayer to have worked the dreaded timestorm that catapulted their race into the distant past from the far-off future. If it's Lower Planes you're after, there are lots of terrifying things down there. Without knowing why it has to be "noticeably more powerful than Asmodeus" or what makes the story work, though, I don't have enough to really go on. If you're interested but don't want to share publicly, feel free to PM me.