General Anime/Manga Discussion 13.5: Recap Episode

[Soras Teva Gee]

We also wound up watching the first 10 episodes of Magi, which was pretty fun. I dig that it's a shounen set in the Arabian Nights. The atypical setting makes it enjoyable for me.

Great series, needs more attention, read the manga too.

[Duck999]

What is up with eyes in anime? Even in cases where it isn't anything special, people will get patterns in their eyes.
Akame ga Kill: at least one person's eyes have strange patterns
No Game No Life: They also have magic eyes
Code Geass: Well... yeah

[Soras Teva Gee]

What is up with eyes in anime? Even in cases where it isn't anything special, people will get patterns in their eyes.
Akame ga Kill: at least one person's eyes have strange patterns
No Game No Life: They also have magic eyes
Code Geass: Well... yeah

Like just about every visual oddity in anime I would ascribe it to a combination of the following:

1) Certain theatrical and cultural traditions that from a Western perspective are rather bombastic and colorful.
2) Being visually interesting while working from an inherently simple art style likewise requires you go big and obvious.
3) A couple of decades of striving to remain interesting in light of points 1 and 2 encouraging one-up-manship to remain distinctive.

[Terraoblivion]

EDIT: Finally, I just finished HaNaYaMaTa. No time to post longer thoughts now, but the ending was totally what I expected...and I wouldn't change it one bit. Maybe I just have a soft spot.

Eh, sometimes the expected ending is also the right one. Execution is what matters, not being surprising or original. And Hanayamata had pretty amazing execution in every way.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Eh, sometimes the expected ending is also the right one. Execution is what matters, not being surprising or original. And Hanayamata had pretty amazing execution in every way.

Concurred. (Which is a boring answer, I suppose, but yeah.) Definitely the right one.

[Duck999]

Argh! Dang Anime! You aren't supposed to have giant reveals about characters identity in the 3rd or 4th to last episode! And if you do, it should be dramatic! Not, I know who you are, ____. Yeah, that's how I react when anime gets me mad. Really though, there are just some kinds of reveals you don't have in the end. It's like saying that Lelouch is

Spoiler: Kind of, but not really a spoiler

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the prince of Brittania in the 46th episode.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Hey, don't blame the show if it wasn't blindingly obvious that Lelouch was Kira. They were, like, foreshadowing that the entire time.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Hey, don't blame the show if it wasn't blindingly obvious that Lelouch was . They were, like, foreshadowing that the entire time.

I thought Suzaku was Kira. He's got all the same character traits - angst, plot armor, even more plot armor...

[CarpeGuitarrem]

i thought suzaku was kira. He's got all the same character traits - angst, plot armor, even more plot armor...

or were they both kira????

[Winthur]

He's got all the same character traits - angst, plot armor, even more plot armor...

That sounds more like Kira Yamato.

[Sith_Happens]

Spoiler: Goofy Mahouka

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A few things first:

An important central part of Mahouka is that the magic system conforms to consistent ideas. (These are explained in a short encyclopedia at the start of each book) The entire deal with flight in the second arc was an attempt to "Show" the limitations of how much a single magician can influence an object instead of just coming out and saying it outright. the story is very obsessed with being a Sci-fi with magic, and so it ends up being closer to a Fate style "concept beats concept" fantasy than the usual "magic does anything" fantasy. Somewhere early on Tatsuya points out that magic can reject physics, but you typically use physics to make magic easier.

The primary two forces that magic consists of are Psions and Pushions. One is "The idea of the spell" and the other is "the force to power it". Magicians who are able to handle complicated psion bodies and power them with sustained high volumes of pushions are favored by national programs. These are both genetic traits and a magician's life is completely decided by them, and they don't really get a say in the matter because as soon as it's discovered that they're magicians, they're state property.

So, on to the story:

The first arc is basically to reveal that the inequalities in the system are real, and that the perception of the situation makes them worse. Magicians are basically always going to serve as Military reserves, and this is the life style all of the kids have ahead of them. The less skilled ones are better off in many ways, because once they go above a certain performance level, they're effectively required to go on the front lines of every single war and conflict.

This arc also highlights one huge issue in that because Magicians are so important to a sovereign nation's survival, magicians are blessed with money. There isn't a second generation Magician that's lived a life of less than upper class living. This makes the non-magicians extremely jealous, and it's a viewpoint alluded to but not seen firsthand in Mahouka since the cast is exclusively magicians, except through the manipulated tools of Blanche. The fact Magicians are state property also causes non-magicians to see Magicians as a resource for their benefit. Again, another viewpoint alluded to but not witnessed.

The Terrorists in this arc are just a disguised moral imperative: Anyone who wants to deprive a country of magic wants to deprive it of it's sovereignty. Since national conflicts are battles of magicians, taking magicians away from the battlefield is the same as sabotaging its weapons.

The Second arc, the nine schools arc, showcases the potential of every magician for military purposes. There's very little that the kids do that isn't somehow applicable to the battlefield, and so the events give the government a good way to pick out who they're going to recruit as frontline combatants. This is the reason that the entire high military command come to watch kids shoot flying targets- most of those spells they're using are strictly wide are antipersonnel magic "toned down" for sports.

On the side, we have the Criminal underground of China running betting games on it. We also learn that by using mental class magic to destroy the brains of magicians, you can make very powerful and very effective weapons out of them. Tatsuya and Miyuki already know this for a reason.

The third arc, we see the kids try to demonstrate that Magicians are useful for peacetime things, but that gets interrupted as they're forced to prove why Magicians are important in battle. The Anime glossed over all the details of the military technology for the visuals, which are cool to watch but the gun-porn is actually important to the story. Defensive magic can turn an unarmored car into the ultimate fortress. Combat mecha are actually engine and actuatorless because they're Shikigami animated by magicians. The only reason the mundane infantry can stand on the battlefield at all is because they're needed to keep enemy magicians in check or serve as tiebreakers if two magicians are equal.

From here, the story turns dark when Tatsuya reveal to the world that his information magic can function as a nuclear bomb. This breaks things for magicians everywhere. That one review actually had the right of it when he said "I prefer to think of Tatsuya as the villain". He really is.

Sidestories happen around here, and they really only serve to reveal that Tatsuya was a non-magician baby born into a numbered magician household, who's own mother cast Mindrape on him as a toddler, to make him the perfect bodyguard for his infant sister who the family believed to be the single most valuable mage in their family history. Those living weapon magicians from the Chinese crime circuit are not very different than Tatsuya, the difference being Tatsuya had his own will left and manipulated to love his little sister and only his little sister, so that he would obey her orders without question and still have enough individuality to act independent of her. Because of the mindrape spell cast on him, most of his brain was turned into a crude approximation of a magician's magical center, leaving him able to use the most basic of magics, but cast them as if he was using a casting assistance device. So... Effectively, Tatsuya's an experimental AI magician in a human body manufactured to protect Miyuki.

After that, things get messy when the American Government, in an experiment to replicate Tatsuya's Material Burst spell, accidentally creates Living Spell Quantum Vampires. This arc has several things in it, from showing how the Americans regulate magic to showing that there's underground crime organizations in America, to showing how little anyone cares about anyone else's borders when military secrets are on the line.

The Quantum Vampires, which the series identifies as "parasites", jump the border into Japan thinking that America won't risk having Material Burst deployed against them. This ends up being a mistake as strange alliances happen and all but two of the Parasites are killed. One of the survivors is taken by Miyuki's family spies, the other by the Patriarch of the Japanese Military Magic Establishment himself.

The plot from here is going kind of weird, but the Japanese have figured out that they can put the parasites in Androids and use the android programming to control them, effectively letting them create artificial magician robots. Up to where I've read, they're about to field test these, and I'm not sure where the public opinion battle is going. Also unrevealed at present is what Miyuki's aunt wanted with the Parasites, since Miyuki's aunt is the spymaster of Japan, assume nothing good.

I've omitted things here and there for brevity (Family's sitting down to watch a show I want to watch) The overall, high level political game being played with magic is fascinating to me, I really like how despite the Kids' antics, there's a very coherent long term plot about the morality and ethics of magic going on. If the current arc finishes the way I think it will, it's going to lead into a moral debate of "Do we let magicians be people and use robots to kill people?" and all hell's going to break loose.

That definitely sounds like it would make a great Silmarillion/World War Z style book. As a personal-level story with a protagonist, though? I'm sure plenty of people could still make a good book out of that, but Tsutomu Sato doesn't seem to be one of them.

[DoctorFaust]

Hey, sorry, but I have a quick question. I marathoned Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica a few days ago, and I was wondering if any of you know of magical girl shows that are as good as it is. Preferably with less soul-crushing sadness?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I'm not familiar with other mahou shoujo shows, but I did want to compliment you on your fantastically main character-ish avatar.

[Sallera]

Nanoha is essentially what happens when a magical girl show is written as though it were a mecha anime. The first season is alright; the second (A's) is much better. It's heavy on the friendship through superior firepower themes, and not depressing in the least.

Card Captor Sakura is softer and more relationship focused, and also much longer. It's a more traditional show, but also highly recommended.

[mallorean_thug]

I would personally highly recommend Card Captor Sakura and Princess Tutu.

Other than those, I would expect the thread to also recommend a mix of Nanoha, Heartcatch Precure, and Sailor Moon.

[Closet_Skeleton]

The problem with recommending Magical Girl shows to people who've just watched Madoka is that most of the genre has a lot of filler.

If you're going to limit yourself to 'as good' then your only option may be Princess Tutu, which I actually like more.

I won't go into why I don't like Nanoha much again here, but it isn't as good as Madoka Magica by any stretch. What it is on the otherhand, is the same length (per season for the first two seasons, in total its 4x the length) and only the first season has any filler and then not much (an onsen episode, monster of the week episodes stop about half way through).

If you want a good representative kid's show I'd recommend Pretty Cure Splash Star, but that's mainly because I don't like Card Captor Sakura much. Probably not as good as Madoka, but it does have several good things Madoka lacks, like little girls punching jerks in the face. Has some of the best villains in a children's anime, but you have to actually enjoy that level of stupidity to get much out of it. Pity the main heroine has one of the worst super hero costumes in an anime. Heatcatch Pretty Cure has a better plot but worse villains and music and Futari Wa Pretty Cure has more hand to hand combat but more annoying pets.

If you just want Yuki Kajiura music and dark but not too dark I'd recommend Mai Hime, despite it not being her best soundtrack and not being a typical magical girl series (high school characters, lots of fanservice). It's definitely not as good as Madoka by far, it does some things very well but tends to undermine that with the other stuff.

[Alent]

That definitely sounds like it would make a great Silmarillion/World War Z style book. As a personal-level story with a protagonist, though? I'm sure plenty of people could still make a good book out of that, but Tsutomu Sato doesn't seem to be one of them.

Yeah, it works in places, and doesn't in others. In my head I group it with other stories where the idea has more potential than the author's skill to execute, and that's okay since it is hobby/amateur work. It has been getting better in terms of quality the farther along the story moves, but there's plenty of issues from the author's nationalism and politics seeping into the writing, to bad otaku trope use.

With works like this I try to pick out the good things and just push the rest aside, and the moral, ethical, and economic exploration of what is basically just a teleportation circle away from being a tippyverse has been worth the read to my mind. An arguably less realistic version of the same thing was Magi's Magnostadt/Kingdom of Magic arc. (Although less realistic, it was executed leagues better since the Magi mangaka is just that. damn. good.)

But yeah, the show isn't for everyone. Especially with how it managed to be slower than Mouretsu Space Pirates. (Which I also liked.)

[DoctorFaust]

I'm not familiar with other mahou shoujo shows, but I did want to compliment you on your fantastically main character-ish avatar.

Danke danke. The art style in yours looks familiar. Is it from The Count of Monte Cristo?

I would personally highly recommend Card Captor Sakura and Princess Tutu.

Other than those, I would expect the thread to also recommend a mix of Nanoha, Heartcatch Precure, and Sailor Moon.

Based on the recommendations, it seems I should probably watch Nanoha and Princess Tutu. Thanks!

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Danke danke. The art style in yours looks familiar. Is it from The Count of Monte Cristo?

The Count himself.

[Terraoblivion]

Not a lot of shows as good as Madoka in general, much less in any specific genre. Most of the good magical girl shows have been mentioned already, so there's no need for me to mention those, but I'll toss in a few more.

Heartcatch Precure. Both Mallorean Thug and Closet Skeleton mentioned it, but neither got into what it is. It's a magical girl show actually aimed at little girls, but a really good one at that and one that's not afraid to let children look at heavy issues like dead, grief, depression or gender roles and while it does do it in a child appropriate manner, it's not patronizing nor does it ignore the severity of them. It also has pretty direct, physical action compared to the stereotype of the genre with Cure Moonlight especially displaying rather strong kung-fu, including one of the best choreographed beatdowns in anime. It's a good show with strong characterization of the leads and some bits of cool action and the occasional example of how to maturely handle heavy topics around children. So as long as you're fine with it being a kid's show and that it tends towards monster of the week in the first half, I can recommend it.

Revolutionary Girl Utena. Stretching the definition a bit, but it's generally listed as one and I can see why. It has several classic elements, such as stock footage transformation sequences and being a coming of age story for girls, as well as a lot of visual ties to Sailor Moon thanks to Ikuhara having directed both. It's weird, it's artsy and the sheer complexity and elaborate symbology takes a lot of work to sort out. However, it has an incredible sense of style in both music and visuals, so even though it's rather dated and didn't have a very high budget to begin with it looks great. It also keeps all its assorted symbols, metaphors and motifs straight to a degree that I've never seen anything this artsy doing. It even manages to make stock footage an integral, symbolic element in a way that it wouldn't be if it didn't do the full stock sequence.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Based on the recommendations, it seems I should probably watch Nanoha and Princess Tutu. Thanks!

Probably. Despite not liking Nanoha much its not so terrible that I'd warn you off it to spare you the pain. I'd recommend that you watch it to make your own decision.

It also has pretty direct, physical action compared to the stereotype of the genre with Cure Moonlight especially displaying rather strong kung-fu, including one of the best choreographed beatdowns in anime. It's a good show with strong characterization of the leads

Its pretty low on martial arts compared to Futari Wa Pretty Cure. The ending battle is really good but that's true of most series.

I didn't like the characterisation as much as in the other series, but I can't really say why at this point. On the other hand you did specify the leads while the main problem I had was the weak villain characterisation, made even worse by how few of them there are. If you're going to have stupid one note villains they should at least be amusing and while not all the villains in Splash Star and Futari Wa are that great at least they only last 7 episodes before being ditched for someone who might be more fun, while in Heartcatch they just alternate the same three bores until past episode 40 (minor structural spoiler). I didn't much like how Futari Wa Pretty Cure had a girl in the Lacross club and a girl in the science club, Pretty Cure Splash Star has a art club girl and a softball girl while Heartcatch Pretty Cure has two fashion club girls.

Spoiler

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and the sporty girl immediately swaps from Karate to fashion the moment she becomes a super heroine. In theory Tsubome is a gardening club member and Eirika is the fashion one, but the way Eirika drags everyone into her club makes them all kind of samey while the girls in the first series are happy to not cross over all their social circles.

This isn't really a criticism, since I don't think that keeping the tomboy and girly girl thing for the entire franchise would have been a good idea, I just prefer the other set up.

I didn't like the music that much either. I didn't use to skip the opening theme of the older series and the background just isn't that impressive or memorable.

So as long as you're fine with it being a kid's show and that it tends towards monster of the week in the first half, I can recommend it.

Its monster of the week almost all the way through, I don't count a 4 episode end of series arc as an entire half. Its a tiny bit more monster of the week than the other two Pretty Cure series I've watched due to only having 3 general characters and stuffing all the boss fights in at the end (same minor structural spoiler).

[HamHam]

I'm not sure I'd really claim Nanoha is better than Madoka on a technical or artistic level, but I will say I like it a lot more. Or at least I am way more fascinated by it.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Does somebody need a Pretty Cure?

[HamHam]

Yona of the Dawn is a pretty meh show, but the opening is freaking amazing.

[Aotrs Commander]

So I just watched Bennet the Sage review MD Geist, and I feel I had to just go and comment SOMEWHERE...

I know anime of the period sometimes had some despicable protagonists, but wow. I think Geist takes the cake. Not content with initiating literally genocide, the guy goes out and kills probably the only other person out there that actually might be able to stop the massecre and have a chance at a normal life (and frankly, was 100% in the right trying to kill him - freaking GENOCIDE, man), letting people be slaughtered in the meantime... all because he just wants an enemy to fight? And he doesn't even seem to enjoy it! (You sort of half get the impression Geist went after the guy more because he blew up some of the robot and Geist didn't want anyone kill-stealing rather than any other reason.) And this is sort of shown as a good thing?

Wow.

Just... wow.

I don't even know where to begin.

I would say I'd love to see what happens when all the robots and all the people are dead and what Geist would do for an encore, but I suspect he'd just wander around expressionlessly until some othe people arrived and repeat the thing on other worlds.

[kamikasei]

I would say I'd love to see what happens when all the robots and all the people are dead and what Geist would do for an encore, but I suspect he'd just wander around expressionlessly until some othe people arrived and repeat the thing on other worlds.

Well, you have to understand that he can't, in fact, actually stop. He is, after all, just a soldier.

It's tragic, really.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, you have to understand that he can't, in fact, actually stop. He is, after all, just a soldier.

It's tragic, really.

Yeah... not really, or rather he isn't. He's caused one, but he isn't one himself. Not only did he appear to not even try to stop (or even to try to do anything that might alleviate the urge, e.g. engaging with other human beings), he actually went out and unleashed a thing that killed (thousands? Millions?) He deserves exactly as much sympathy as the robots he unleashed, beause THEY at least, don't have the choice, being sentient/sapient beings. He did have a choice, cealry, though he decided it was too hard... Or, of course, if he really is physicially unable to stop because programming (since the OTHER chap seemed to have done so, it does not, however apper to be impossible) - then he basically IS just a machine: a Thing, not a Being (the fact it the Thing might have a soul stuck in it along for the ride matters nothing at this point, because one guy is not > entire population...)

I mean, I can't even appreciate him on a villainous or Evil level. He's wasteful, uninteresting and he doesn't even seem to be enjoying it. I've only seen him in scattered scenes, and he's managed to somehow suck all the fun out genocide of humans: something that on a bad day, I'm 100% behind. That takes some doing, I tell you.

[Tengu_temp]

That was a joke, a reference to the "can't stop, he's just a soldier" line. The only people who like MD Geist's character are a few tryhards on /m/.

[Nerd-o-rama]

That sounds more like Kira Yamato.

*Rainier Wolfcastle standing in front of a brick wall for an hour und a half*

[Aotrs Commander]

That was a joke, a reference to the "can't stop, he's just a soldier" line. The only people who like MD Geist's character are a few tryhards on /m/.

...

*skullpalm*

*skulldesk*

Well.

Now I fell silly.

Sorry guys, missed that entirely!

That post was a bit incoherent for me as well, come to that. Apparently I was more weary than I thought last night...

I'll get my cloak...