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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Albions_Angel's Avatar

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    Default Help with Soranar's suggested Druid Build

    Hi all.

    Yesterday I asked for help building a new, level 2 character with a 28pt buy and set books of Core, Complete, Races, Frostburn, Sandstorm and Stormwrack.

    I suggested Druid and Barbarian and while the resounding answer was Druid, the only build I got was Soranar's build below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soranar View Post
    looks to me like you need a lot of help.

    Druid could literally fil every role you need

    his animal companion is a decent meatshield

    pretty SAD (single ability dependent)

    should be noted that higher tier classes are less affected by lower point buy (28 pts is enough for a wizard or a druid while 48 pts seems less than you need on a paladin or a monk)

    So, the druid

    Due to the books allowed, I'd go with this

    Race: Mongrelfolk
    Alignment: neutral good
    Template: dragonborn of bahamut (pick whatever aspect you prefer)

    STATS

    STR 8 (dump)
    DEX 14
    CON 20
    INT 12
    WIS 16 (main stat, gets every increase)
    CHA 4 (dump)

    animal companion : riding dog (war trained for access to amor proficiencies and trip attacks)

    Make two of these and you're set

    you get 2 support spellcasters (access to healing , summons and battlefield control spells)
    you get 2 meatshields (riding dogs)

    you two should be able to handle just about everything by yourselves

    I pumped your CON like crazy (mongrelfolk + dragonborn) just to help you increase your survivability until you hit wildshape

    And I love it. But I have questions. Lots of them.

    First up, how am I supposed to get 2 animal companions?! I thought I only got one. Please explain this.

    Second, Soranar seems to suggest I can use my dogs as spellcasters. Isnt that only familiars? I can share my buffs with them but as far as I know they cant cast heal spells for me on my friends. Which is fine, but I am confused by his suggestion.

    Feats. I have no idea. None. Never built a caster before. Let alone one like this. What do I take?

    Last game I played, someone had a druid that could "recall spells" into their head to use again. How the hell do I do that? Google has all the wrong answers.

    Spells. Well, at level 2, and with those stats, I get 3 first level spells per day. I was thinking if I take a quarterstaff then at least one of those is Shillelagh. Then just because of how I play I would probably go for Entangle rather than produce flame, but I would have it as an option along with cure light (though I hope to take create water and purify for 2 of my lvl 0s because we are on an island and currently our cleric is far too hesitant about getting rid of them with his heal spells, resulting in no healing from him. If I take them instead, he can convert them without worry. Rather than purify, goodberry may be better too). What do you think? Agree?

    Any other ideas? I would ask Soranar (and in fact have) but his activity seems sporadic at best so I doubt I will get any reply soon.

    Thanks guys.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Help with Soranar's suggested Druid Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Albions_Angel View Post
    Hi all.

    Yesterday I asked for help building a new, level 2 character with a 28pt buy and set books of Core, Complete, Races, Frostburn, Sandstorm and Stormwrack.

    I suggested Druid and Barbarian and while the resounding answer was Druid, the only build I got was Soranar's build below.




    And I love it. But I have questions. Lots of them.

    First up, how am I supposed to get 2 animal companions?! I thought I only got one. Please explain this.

    Second, Soranar seems to suggest I can use my dogs as spellcasters. Isnt that only familiars? I can share my buffs with them but as far as I know they cant cast heal spells for me on my friends. Which is fine, but I am confused by his suggestion.

    Feats. I have no idea. None. Never built a caster before. Let alone one like this. What do I take?

    Last game I played, someone had a druid that could "recall spells" into their head to use again. How the hell do I do that? Google has all the wrong answers.

    Spells. Well, at level 2, and with those stats, I get 3 first level spells per day. I was thinking if I take a quarterstaff then at least one of those is Shillelagh. Then just because of how I play I would probably go for Entangle rather than produce flame, but I would have it as an option along with cure light (though I hope to take create water and purify for 2 of my lvl 0s because we are on an island and currently our cleric is far too hesitant about getting rid of them with his heal spells, resulting in no healing from him. If I take them instead, he can convert them without worry. Rather than purify, goodberry may be better too). What do you think? Agree?

    Any other ideas? I would ask Soranar (and in fact have) but his activity seems sporadic at best so I doubt I will get any reply soon.

    Thanks guys.
    Okay, disclaimer: never played a druid before. But from lurking on the forum:

    Extra animal companion: There's an online feat called wild cohort you can take if your DM allows, google it. Though I saw that thread and I think he meant 2 as in both you and the rogue character play druids.

    Feats: Off the top of my head, natural spell, beckon the frozen, augment summoning. More can be found in the druid handbook online. (Also Google).

    Spells: Entangle. Entangle. Entangle. Spells are situational: are you a summoner? Buffer? Since I think you're a summoner, look at the Summon Nature's Ally line.

    Goodberry is okay, flavorful and fun so not a bad choice IMO. Any of the cure wounds aren't optimal as this forum will probably tell you, but if your party desperately needs healing go for it. At some point your summons will do your healing for you, though.

    Good luck!

    PS: look up "druid handbook 3.5" in the lovely google :)
    You'll be limited because handbooks usually draw on tons of books but its a good start.

    EDIT: some words
    Last edited by IslandDog; 2014-10-21 at 10:33 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Albions_Angel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Help with Soranar's suggested Druid Build

    Yeah I have been looking at the handbook.

    I dont think I actually qualify for any of those feats at level 2 (ie, my level 1 feat). I actually need to be able to transform (level 5) before I can get natural spell for example.

    Any idea on that recall ability?

    So you reckon rather than entangle, go summon natures ally? That gives me my animal companion and my summoned animal.

    The handbook says druids get natures ally as a spontaneous cast. Forgive my ignorance but what does that mean? Is that like a cleric being able to replace any spell with an HP restoring spell? So does it mean that if I learn Entangle, Entangle, Shillelagh/produce flame, I can discard one for a summoning at any time?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Help with Soranar's suggested Druid Build

    I don't think that mongrelfolk is necessarily the best way to go about this. It just doesn't actually do that much for you. Instead, I would tend towards half-orc, or if you have access to the SRD, desert half-orc, preferably dragonborn either way. What those do is they grant access to half-orc druid substitution levels (RoD, 159), which boosts HP in a way similar to that of a mongrelfolk, and also eventually grants free augment summoning, which is neat, along with some other stuff. Alternatively, if the races books somehow includes races of eberron, which seems vaguely unlikely, a shifter druid could be nifty.

    As for spells, yes that is how spontaneous summoning works. You just discard a spell, and you get an SNA X of that level or lower. That mostly means wolves at this level, and the other thing it means is that you don't have to choose between entangle and summoning. You can just have perfect constant access to both. You should definitely keep a couple of entangles, at least partially because preventing damage is infinitely better than curing it. Beyond entangle, with your book selection, you're mostly going to be running other core spells at this point (other books have some stuff at other levels), like obscuring mist and produce flame (incidentally, you should prepare a mix of detect magic, create water, and cure minor wounds in your 0th's), but you do have additional access to blockade, spore field, and winged watcher out of complete scoundrel, and those are neat.

    For your feat, I don't think there's all that much at this point that's significantly interesting. Most of the really good summoning stuff is in other books, and pouring feats into augment just seems inefficient with half-orc sub levels right there. You're also obviously before the point where anything involving wild shape comes online. As a result, maybe something a bit animal companion focused would do. Companion spellbond is in the PHB II, and natural bond is in complete adventurer, so those could be your first and third level feats respectively. Fits reasonably with your intended goal of beating face.

    I think that covers a lot of the relevant stuff at this level. Things get a bit more complicated next level, when 2nd level spells come online, though as is the case with 1st level spells, the non-core books aren't adding much at the moment. I suppose you could pull the obscuring snow+snowsight combo out of frostburn, but that just seems kinda cheesy at your game's apparent optimization level. Beyond that, I can always send over the massive handbook I'm working on, if you'd like. As IslandDog notes, your lack of book access makes some of the information pointless, but some of the other information is less pointless, so that would likely help in some fashion.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Red Fel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Help with Soranar's suggested Druid Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Albions_Angel View Post
    The handbook says druids get natures ally as a spontaneous cast. Forgive my ignorance but what does that mean? Is that like a cleric being able to replace any spell with an HP restoring spell? So does it mean that if I learn Entangle, Entangle, Shillelagh/produce flame, I can discard one for a summoning at any time?
    That's precisely what it means. You can dump a spell slot to instead cast an SNA of the appropriate level. Per the SRD:
    Quote Originally Posted by Druid, Spontaneous Casting
    A druid can channel stored spell energy into summoning spells that she hasn’t prepared ahead of time. She can "lose" a prepared spell in order to cast any summon nature’s ally spell of the same level or lower.
    (Emphasis added.)

    As an aside, the general rule with feats on a Druid is that you only need three:
    • Natural Spell, to use spells while Wild Shaping. It's practically a feat tax.
    • One summon augment spell (such as Greenbound Summoning) to make your summons meatier.
    • One Wild Shape augment spell (such as Frozen Wild Shape for Cryohydra) to make your Wild Shape even more versatile than it already is. And it's pretty darn versatile.

    As for that spell recall thing, a quick search turned up several options:
    • Retrieve Spell (CC): Burn TU uses to recall a spell. Only works for spells derived from classes that use TU.
    • Chaotic Spell Recall (FCI): 1/day recall one spell with the [Chaotic] descriptor you've already cast. Swift action. Requires Abyssal Heritor feats.
    • Call of the Undying (RoE): 1/day recall one spell you've already cast. Swift action. Requires Elf, Aerenal region, access to Deathless domain.
    Don't think any of those work for you, unless you plan to play an Aerenal Elf and can gain the Deathless domain as a Druid.

    But since I've mentioned RoE, and you say you're good with Races books, are you set on a Dragonborn Mongrelfolk? If not, consider the Shifter, also from RoE. It has two really good racial substitution levels in Druid (the third one is rubbish). And if you plan to indulge in some minionmancy, there are few Druid PrCs better for the task than Moonspeaker.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Albions_Angel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Help with Soranar's suggested Druid Build

    No ROE I am afraid. Shame really.

    I have just noticed the stat array is for a 32 point buy. Any help with that, assuming I go Half Orc and Dragonborn of Bahamut?

    What do you think of:
    Buy/Actual(Racial mod)[Bonus]
    Str 12/14(+2 Half-Orc)[+2]
    Dex 14/12(-2 Dragonborn)[+1]
    Con 14/16(+2 Dragonborn)[+3]
    Int 12/10(-2 Half-Orc)[0]
    Wis 16/16[+3]
    Cha 6/4 (-2 Half-Orc)[-3]


    Does that hurt my handle animal too much? I mean at level 4 it becomes a str dependent trait.

    Also, why Natural Bond? Seems pointless as I am not multi classing (its unlikely we will ever get passed 8th in this very small campaign)
    Last edited by Albions_Angel; 2014-10-21 at 12:49 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Help with Soranar's suggested Druid Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Albions_Angel View Post
    No ROE I am afraid. Shame really.

    I have just noticed the stat array is for a 32 point buy. Any help with that, assuming I go Half Orc and Dragonborn of Bahamut?

    What do you think of:
    Buy/Actual(Racial mod)[Bonus]
    Str 12/14(+2 Half-Orc)[+2]
    Dex 14/12(-2 Dragonborn)[+1]
    Con 14/16(+2 Dragonborn)[+3]
    Int 12/10(-2 Half-Orc)[0]
    Wis 16/16[+3]
    Cha 6/4 (-2 Half-Orc)[-3]


    Does that hurt my handle animal too much? I mean at level 4 it becomes a str dependent trait.
    Handle animal doesn't become a strength dependent trait. Wild empathy does. Not all that vital, in other words. I'd advise focusing your stats more. You'd don't really need strength or dexterity, even to beat face, because your animal companion can handle that stuff for you. I would dump them completely, pump wisdom to 18, constitution to 16, and then, I dunno, maybe 14 intelligence to grant you a bonus in that role. You don't really need strength for bully animal, if you're wondering. You're better off running that off of wild shape strength, once you have it.

    Edit: As for natural bond, it also works if you have an alternate companion with a level penalty, like a black bear, or if you have other monster books beyond what you've mentioned, a fleshraker dinosaur. Still doesn't kick in right away, but it does so by level four, and this is the best time to take it.
    Last edited by eggynack; 2014-10-21 at 12:53 PM.

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