OOTS #966 - The Discussion Thread

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Admittedly, I could be wrong, but my understanding of the OotS world vampirism is that if Durkula vamp'd a gnome cleric, wouldn't whatever the evil gnome deity of death is create the vampiric spirit inside the new gnomepire?

I mean, yeah, that might still be Hel. They're in the North, and there's been nothing said either way about whether the gnomes of the North worship the same gods as the dwarfs of the North. But.... the only times (outside of Snarl-exposition flashbacks) that the various Gods have really been explicitly mentioned is when a clerical character does it. The gnomes could worship the same Norse-based pantheon, or they could have their own specific pantheon. Or they could all be atheists. (Would it even be possible for an atheist in the OotS setting to become a vampire?)

Do we even know what (if any) gods the rest of the party follow?

Hel is the god of Undeath in the Northern pantheon, so if the gnomes live in the North they presumably fall under her control. I doubt the gnomes have their own pantheon, and it's really difficult to be an atheist in a D&D world.

[Bulldog Psion]

V follows elven god of knowledge. Elan follows Banjo. I think the rest don't follow anyone in particular.

That seems like a good assessment. Roy occasionally invokes the "gods" in general, but that seems mostly for emphasis of some idiocy by Elan. I doubt he's ever gone to a temple to pray, only to hire a cleric to cast a spell.

Oh yes, and welcome to the boards.

[Burner28]

I love the fact that they made fun of the whole side-quest cliche that one finds in RPGs. Reminds me of FF6.

[Miriel]

Admittedly, I could be wrong, but my understanding of the OotS world vampirism is that if Durkula vamp'd a gnome cleric, wouldn't whatever the evil gnome deity of death is create the vampiric spirit inside the new gnomepire?

I mean, yeah, that might still be Hel. They're in the North, and there's been nothing said either way about whether the gnomes of the North worship the same gods as the dwarfs of the North. But.... the only times (outside of Snarl-exposition flashbacks) that the various Gods have really been explicitly mentioned is when a clerical character does it. The gnomes could worship the same Norse-based pantheon, or they could have their own specific pantheon. Or they could all be atheists. (Would it even be possible for an atheist in the OotS setting to become a vampire?)

Do we even know what (if any) gods the rest of the party follow?

Whatever the god is who creates the spirit, the resulting vampire would still be HPOH's thrall.

[Forikroder]

Admittedly, I could be wrong, but my understanding of the OotS world vampirism is that if Durkula vamp'd a gnome cleric, wouldn't whatever the evil gnome deity of death is create the vampiric spirit inside the new gnomepire?

I mean, yeah, that might still be Hel. They're in the North, and there's been nothing said either way about whether the gnomes of the North worship the same gods as the dwarfs of the North. But.... the only times (outside of Snarl-exposition flashbacks) that the various Gods have really been explicitly mentioned is when a clerical character does it. The gnomes could worship the same Norse-based pantheon, or they could have their own specific pantheon. Or they could all be atheists. (Would it even be possible for an atheist in the OotS setting to become a vampire?)

Do we even know what (if any) gods the rest of the party follow?

its more geography then beliefing everyone in the North is under the umbrella of the norhern gods regardless of what they believe

Roy is essentially an athiest and despite dieing in the south was still under northern jurisdiction for deciding what happened to his soul

so if a gnome gets vamped Hel is in charge of that

[Keltest]

its more geography then beliefing everyone in the North is under the umbrella of the norhern gods regardless of what they believe

Roy is essentially an athiest and despite dieing in the south was still under northern jurisdiction for deciding what happened to his soul

so if a gnome gets vamped Hel is in charge of that

Well that's the question, isn't it? Where do the gnomes fall? Geographically they are in the north, but that doesn't mean much, because people still fall under the jurisdiction of their "owner" gods even if they leave the god's territory. Even if the dwarves had a colony in the Western Continent, they would still be Hel's to vampirize.

[Forikroder]

Well that's the question, isn't it? Where do the gnomes fall? Geographically they are in the north, but that doesn't mean much, because people still fall under the jurisdiction of their "owner" gods even if they leave the god's territory. Even if the dwarves had a colony in the Western Continent, they would still be Hel's to vampirize.

Hels special in that she specifically owns dwarfs though

i think it depends on where your born, if the gnomes were born in the south then moved north the southern gods own them but any new gnomes born north are owned by the northern pantheon

there may be rules about if you move to a different pantheon for long enough and of course you can start worshipping a different pantheon and become theres by choice

[Darth Paul]

In D&D the Gnomes have their own pantheon, however (I'll say it myself before I get jumped on) the OOTS-verse has shown almost no recognition of any "traditional" D&D gods- even though the afterlife planes seem to match up pretty closely to what we would call "D&D" mythology. So it's an open question until we actually meet some more gnomes and see their deities discussed.

Forikroder, your point would be well made, but for what I think is one essential flaw- the "Northern pantheon" that we know of are actually Dwarven gods (Thor, Odin, Hel, etc.), aren't they? And the Southern gods are the Azurite pantheon. So neither of those are neccesarily specific to gnomes either. I still have no clue who humans from the North worship (other than the mighty Banjo and the horrible Banjulhu ).

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Well that's the question, isn't it? Where do the gnomes fall? Geographically they are in the north, but that doesn't mean much, because people still fall under the jurisdiction of their "owner" gods even if they leave the god's territory. Even if the dwarves had a colony in the Western Continent, they would still be Hel's to vampirize.

Since we've pretty much only seen gnomes in the North, I'm betting that is where they are from. I imagine we'll get the answer to this question when we see their temple.

[DaggerPen]

Given that the Order stopped by a human town with a Temple of Freya after the Dungeon of Dorukan and the priest of Lori in Greysky, I'd wager that the humans of the north also worship the Northern gods. The same likely goes for the gnomes, though they may not be a particularly religious sort.

ETA: The Giant's words here seem to confirm all the North share the Norse pantheon. So I imagine any vamped gnomes would in fact be new followers of Hel with tiny adorable hats and fangs.

[Terrador]

I noticed talk of HPoH potentially vamping a gnome cleric; wouldn't that be horrendously unsubtle, if even tenable? Sure, the staff has that spell for speeding up resurrection, but its charges are precious; further, there's one more vampire that needs to suck charges to face combat before she/he/it/abominationself develops the spell, and then there's the issue of pulling it off with Roy around, Thor forbid him actually getting away with anything like intra-party trust after such an event...

If anything, I very strongly read that as a bluff by HPoH with little ulterior motive. Durkon was a cleric of the North in life; perhaps not necessarily very learned for his station and level, but he would certainly have a mental thumbnail sketch of clerical power in the North. If he knew that Tinkertown didn't have any incredibly powerful clerics--do note that we've seen a whopping three capable of Resurrection so far, and all have been High Priests and/or adventurers--he would be in the clear while establishing trust with Roy. There's always the chance of having Resurrection read off a scroll, but Tinkertown may not even have one of those.

[Reddish Mage]

do note that we've seen a whopping three capable of Resurrection so far, and all have been High Priests and/or adventurers--he would be in the clear while establishing trust with Roy. There's always the chance of having Resurrection read off a scroll, but Tinkertown may not even have one of those.

Whose the third Priest? Note: Loki-thief/cleric needed a scroll.

[kierthos]

Since we've pretty much only seen gnomes in the North, I'm betting that is where they are from. I imagine we'll get the answer to this question when we see their temple.

I think you're right. The only gnomes I can recall outside of the recent strips are the gnome merchant that Belkar killed and the gnome druid Leeky Windstaff.

Although the fact that there are elven gods opens the possibility of other races having pantheons (perhaps not on the same power scale as the Northern Gods or the Southern Gods, etc.). I mean, we know that the Goblins have at least one god.

Furthermore, unless the gnomes explicitly follow the Northern Gods, I'm not convinced that a Durkula-created gnomepire would have a spirit "birthed in Hel's dark halls". I mean, Malack was a follower of Nergal, and Durkula is a Hel-spirit. So it stands to reason that if (and only if) the gnomes have a different death deity, that any gnomepires would have spirits created in that death deity's place of power. Sure, the gnomepire in question would still be in thrall to Durkula, and thus working (indirectly) for Hel.

Of course, if the gnomes follow the Northern Gods, my argument is moot.

[Keltest]

Whose the third Priest? Note: Loki-thief/cleric needed a scroll.

Durkon, Redcloak, and... the High Priest of the 12 gods, I guess? AFAIK we never actually saw him cast it, but we know the azurites had the capabilities somehow, and it seems unlikely that the most powerful priest of the 12 gods wouldn't be able to.

[kierthos]

Whose the third Priest? Note: Loki-thief/cleric needed a scroll.

Presumably, Malack was capable of it, but he's doing a Kansas retrospective these days.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Presumably, Malack was capable of it, but he's doing a Kansas retrospective these days.

Malack was only lvl 12; Resurrection is 7th level spell.

[Terrador]

Whose the third Priest? Note: Loki-thief/cleric needed a scroll.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html

Pretty sure that's "Resurrection". We don't have evidence of him casting other 7th-level spells, but if he's 13th-level Dictum and Holy Word would've been supremely ass against Redcloak, so...

As a minor note, HPo12G had Resurrection prepared on an ordinary day. Perhaps this was because Shojo's wizard needed resurrecting, but if you have one cleric attending the place capable of it and you're being attacked by a necromancer? That would be a reasonable call, especially since HPo12G is in no way evidenced to be a capable fighter for his level. Pulling out the 3rd-level noise against RC? Come on.

[kierthos]

Malack was only lvl 12; Resurrection is 7th level spell.

Only level 12? How was that determined?

[Gnoman]

Roy is essentially an athiest

Wrong. He's an apatheist. He believes in the gods, he just doesn't care about them. He was raised to follow the northern pantheon, so that's why his spirit was handled in the way it was. Word Of Giant is that the disposition of your soul is based on your beliefs.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Only level 12? How was that determined?

Look at the last post the Giant quotes here.

[MrMercury]

I have a very, very bad feeling about this


Let's say Roy and Durkon find a cleric that is high enough level to cast res

Cleric: Okay, just step this way so we can kill the vampire and cast the resurrection spell

Roy: WHAT?

Durkula: Nay, it's al'ight lad. But perhaps can you let me do this alone?

Roy: Of course, I'll be waiting back at the ship.

**a few hours later**

Durkula turns up to the ship, still a vampire, claiming that the resurrection was a failure


...

What actually happens is that when he's alone with the high level priest, he kills him and turns him into a vampire

[kierthos]

Look at the last post the Giant quotes here.

Hrm. I guess I just assumed Malack was higher level due to him being part of Tarquin's group. I guess the +8 level adjustment from being a vampire made up for that.

[brian 333]

Here's a pointless 'what if' scenario:

What if Durkula is playing Roy by using him as a character witness?

Imagine if A. Random Vampire showed up alone at the temple. What would the priests do? Why, they would put the Holy Smite on his corpse. But with Roy along to speak for him, Durkula can get into the temple by invitation and discuss his 'horrible curse'. After making arrangements to be rezed, Durkula can return later, having already been invited into the temple, and dominate the clerics there, vamping the ones he can get his teeth on, and leaving them to clean up the mess, (and be a nest of vampires in Tinkertown, hidden in the now desecrated temple where no one would think to look for them.)

[kierthos]

I think, though, that whatever Durkula is up to, he's not going to be Stupid Evil about it.

His major goal is to get to the North and carry out Hel's orders (which will apparently lead to ruining the world and bringing Thor to his knees), so I don't see it being very likely that he's going to risk not getting to the North by vampirizing some gnomes, even if they are gnome clerics of sufficient power to be useful to Hel's schemes.

[sabremeister]

Given the fact that Belkar is having second thoughts about doing his own stuff in town in favour of terrorising some Gnome clerics, I don't think that what he wants to do is very urgent or important. He's probably heading for the nearest bar/casino/brothel, then thinks, "hey, maybe I can get some violence done first, if Roy still wants me to come along?"

[CrispyCriminal]

Checklist of an under-worshipped evil god high priest.

1. Visit local church with Pretend-friend.
2. Discuss resurrection possibility and arrange meeting.
3. Attend meeting and vamp those worthy, and kill the rest.
4. Plant fake bait to pin blame on Belkar (just in case).
5. GET THE **** OUT OF THERE COME MORNING.
6. Leave tinkertown to new worshippers of Hel and advance to the north for further assignment by Lady Hel.
7. Laugh at this 20 years from now when the world is in ruin and are currently sitting next to Lovely Omni-god Hel while watching dwarven souls re-enact the Order of the Stick: Gate Breaking Fools.

[Forikroder]

Forikroder, your point would be well made, but for what I think is one essential flaw- the "Northern pantheon" that we know of are actually Dwarven gods (Thor, Odin, Hel, etc.), aren't they? And the Southern gods are the Azurite pantheon. So neither of those are neccesarily specific to gnomes either. I still have no clue who humans from the North worship (other than the mighty Banjo and the horrible Banjulhu ).

a human met with Elan when he wanted Banjo to join there pantheon and claimed to worship Freya

Wrong. He's an apatheist. He believes in the gods, he just doesn't care about them. He was raised to follow the northern pantheon, so that's why his spirit was handled in the way it was. Word Of Giant is that the disposition of your soul is based on your beliefs.

i said essentially since he doenst worship

though i dont know what apatheist means so that might be more accurate

I have a very, very bad feeling about this


Let's say Roy and Durkon find a cleric that is high enough level to cast res

Cleric: Okay, just step this way so we can kill the vampire and cast the resurrection spell

Roy: WHAT?

Durkula: Nay, it's al'ight lad. But perhaps can you let me do this alone?

Roy: Of course, I'll be waiting back at the ship.

**a few hours later**

Durkula turns up to the ship, still a vampire, claiming that the resurrection was a failure


...

What actually happens is that when he's alone with the high level priest, he kills him and turns him into a vampire

roy knows |Durkon has to die for it, hed do it himself since he has the undead killing greatsword Durkon doesnt struggle Roy gives him a quick beheading and they ressurect him

Given the fact that Belkar is having second thoughts about doing his own stuff in town in favour of terrorising some Gnome clerics, I don't think that what he wants to do is very urgent or important. He's probably heading for the nearest bar/casino/brothel, then thinks, "hey, maybe I can get some violence done first, if Roy still wants me to come along?"

he may know some contacts in town, or someone who can get in contact with someone

[t209]

Yay, Gnome Clerics.

[Darth Paul]

a human met with Elan when he wanted Banjo to join there pantheon and claimed to worship Freya

Yes he did, and I stand corrected. Thanks for reminding me, that was a hilarious bit & I don't know how I could have forgotten it!

[The DeathKnight]

Mr Scruffy got a model update from comic #950