A question I will regret asking

[Erik Vale]

And there's also that, were you to try and pull off light speed/[other arbitrary but similar speed], the DM would be perfectly justified in those near the end being caught in a nuclear explosion due to physics.

[Larrx]

And there's also that, were you to try and pull off light speed/[other arbitrary but similar speed], the DM would be perfectly justified in those near the end being caught in a nuclear explosion due to physics.

While there may be consequences depending on how you approached c, there is nothing inherently dangerous about a near c object being close to you. There is even theory to deal with velocities greater than c, but that gets weird fast and should probably be avoided.

[SiuiS]

But, as I noted, there's no rules item to my knowledge that determines the speed at which a thrown object travels at. We know the damage said item will deal to a given target, but we don't know the item's kinetic energy, or we do, because it follows standard physical laws.

Sure we do. The speed an item travels at is the distance traveled divided by the action economy segment it occupies. Because the rule is that in situations where the speed is relevant, common sense for that action applies; high velocity thrown objects would behave as falling objects, and the thrown object does not.

I guess it's open ended enough, vaguely, to go either way. It depends on if you apply 'defaults to real world' to the entire thig or to each action individually.

[Erik Vale]

While there may be consequences depending on how you approached c, there is nothing inherently dangerous about a near c object being close to you. There is even theory to deal with velocities greater than c, but that gets weird fast and should probably be avoided.

Actually, a object moving near C would interact with the surrounding air such as to cause a nuclear reaction, due to all the atoms in the air smashing into the object because they can't move out of it's way fast enough. Effectively, the object you've just thrown initiates nuclear fusion with the molecules in it's path, and promptly explodes.

[Larrx]

Actually, a object moving near C would interact with the surrounding air such as to cause a nuclear reaction, due to all the atoms in the air smashing into the object because they can't move out of it's way fast enough. Effectively, the object you've just thrown initiates nuclear fusion with the molecules in it's path, and promptly explodes.

Fair enough. I typically imagine particles traveling at these speeds interacting with ordinary matter weakly (if at all), but you are correct . . . if regular protons and neutrons were at relativistic speeds there would be . . . consequences.

edit: typo

[Desiani]

Here's a question/curiosity... For DMs who more or less stick with raw but discounts pun pun cheese... Would you argue that by Raw... You become nonexistent to people in the direction your hidden? Or would you claim reality kicks in and they see your tower shield?

Also... If you hide behind it and move slowly or up to your base speed...mod you have to make hide checks or are you still considered totally concealed?

[SiuiS]

Here's a question/curiosity... For DMs who more or less stick with raw but discounts pun pun cheese... Would you argue that by Raw... You become nonexistent to people in the direction your hidden? Or would you claim reality kicks in and they see your tower shield?

Also... If you hide behind it and move slowly or up to your base speed...mod you have to make hide checks or are you still considered totally concealed?

I throw camoflage netting on any tower shield I plan to hide behind, myself. It gives the DM that extra sense of "they know they're being ridiculous but they're playing it straight" that they tend to find comforting.

[Desiani]

I throw camoflage netting on any tower shield I plan to hide behind, myself. It gives the DM that extra sense of "they know they're being ridiculous but they're playing it straight" that they tend to find comforting.

Lol why is that? My DM is super anti cheese and hardly lets RP fluff explain -why- you are cheesing. Just wondering what it would be like to play under a more liberal Dm... One can wonder.

[nedz]

Lol why is that? My DM is super anti cheese and hardly lets RP fluff explain -why- you are cheesing. Just wondering what it would be like to play under a more liberal Dm... One can wonder.

There is another type of DM who says "Anything you can do, so can the bad guys", ..., which in this case would lead to situations such as: "As you walk down a corridor an Orc drops the Tower Shield he was hiding behind and full-attacks you with his Falchion.

[Gemini476]

While the Commoner Railgun (or, more practically, the Skeleton Delivery Tubes) move the object from spot A to B within six seconds no matter the distance, the object does not retain any momentum. At the end of it the last skellington just receives the object and hurls it however far he would at what is probably less than relativistic speeds.

More obvious, however, is bow physics. Most of the time there is no such thing as an arc of fire in D&D, after all - your arrow travels in a somewhat straight line from A to B to the extent of your range, and a low ceiling is not an issue. Arc of fire is only a thing once you bring in stuff like volley rules, and even then only when you volley or try to shoot over a wall.
Also, it travels from A to B nigh-instantaneously. Less than six seconds, at least, no matter the distance. The arrow always hits or misses before the end of your round, or indeed before your next attack that turn since you get to shoot at a second orc if you deem it appropriate.

And with an [Epic] feat you have a range increment of "line of sight".

The moon is roughly 1,3 light-seconds away. Do you think you could resolve a ranged attack in less than a fifth of a turn?

[eggynack]

Sure we do. The speed an item travels at is the distance traveled divided by the action economy segment it occupies. Because the rule is that in situations where the speed is relevant, common sense for that action applies; high velocity thrown objects would behave as falling objects, and the thrown object does not.

If that holds, then I'll probably have to default again to the speed at which the object is being passed. Come to think of it, if that's the model being used, just constructing a ring of commoners could be the best way to pull this off. Just have them stand where you want the explosion to be, and fwapoom. Might not work as well though, because incineration has a higher chance of just breaking the chain.

[LeonCross]

On the plus side, if you appropriately space out your ring of commoners, the object being passed will drastically outpace the chain of nuclear detonations.

[Gemini476]

Why a ring? You can generally only ready one action per turn, after all.

[eggynack]

Why a ring? You can generally only ready one action per turn, after all.

I was thinking that the free actions would just occur, but you're correct that the not off-turn nature of free actions would be a hindrance to that plan.

[Galen]

While there may be consequences depending on how you approached c, there is nothing inherently dangerous about a near c object being close to you.

Except the fact that a near-c object generates so much heat and light just by colliding with air molecules, that you will be instantly incinerated. Otherwise, no problems.

[SiuiS]

There is another type of DM who says "Anything you can do, so can the bad guys", ..., which in this case would lead to situations such as: "As you walk down a corridor an Orc drops the Tower Shield he was hiding behind and full-attacks you with his Falchion.

That's pretty canon, actually, being the modern version of the illusory wall with a goblin ambush behind it.

While the Commoner Railgun (or, more practically, the Skeleton Delivery Tubes) move the object from spot A to B within six seconds no matter the distance, the object does not retain any momentum. At the end of it the last skellington just receives the object and hurls it however far he would at what is probably less than relativistic speeds.

More obvious, however, is bow physics. Most of the time there is no such thing as an arc of fire in D&D, after all - your arrow travels in a somewhat straight line from A to B to the extent of your range, and a low ceiling is not an issue. Arc of fire is only a thing once you bring in stuff like volley rules, and even then only when you volley or try to shoot over a wall.
Also, it travels from A to B nigh-instantaneously. Less than six seconds, at least, no matter the distance. The arrow always hits or misses before the end of your round, or indeed before your next attack that turn since you get to shoot at a second orc if you deem it appropriate.

And with an [Epic] feat you have a range increment of "line of sight".

The moon is roughly 1,3 light-seconds away. Do you think you could resolve a ranged attack in less than a fifth of a turn?

Yeah, all this basically. A crag top archer is shooting multiple arrows thousands of feet in fractions of seconds.

[Gemini476]

I was thinking that the free actions would just occur, but you're correct that the not off-turn nature of free actions would be a hindrance to that plan.

I'm pretty sure that handing an object to someone else is a move action, hence why everyone readies it.

As an aside, here's some informative stuff re:handling objects at relativistic velocities.

[Lord of Shadows]

Error.
You get total cover, if you have total cover you can't be seen, if you can't be seen, your gear can't be seen.
No hide check required.

Also, it's worth noting you only get total cover from one direction, so the enemy moving will result in you suddenly appearing. If they were to completely circle you [impossible with normal movement speeds], you would wink in and out of existence.

That would be the Pathfinder RPG version....

[SiuiS]

That would be the Pathfinder RPG version....

That's how the 3.5 PHB handles it too.

[Deophaun]

And with an [Epic] feat you have a range increment of "line of sight".

The moon is roughly 1,3 light-seconds away. Do you think you could resolve a ranged attack in less than a fifth of a turn?

Why stop at the Moon, when the Andromeda Galaxy is visible with the naked eye? I see your 1.3 light-seconds and raise you 2.5 million light years.

Though at this point it must be restated: the problem isn't the game's rules. The problem is trying to transition between the rules and real-world physics.

[Forrestfire]

That's how the 3.5 PHB handles it too.

I have my PHB in front of me, and there's no facing rules. Same with the SRD.

[SiuiS]

I have my PHB in front of me, and there's no facing rules. Same with the SRD.

No, there aren't facing rules. But the tower shield specifies a direction. It's the one instance of facing remaining.

Or so I remember; not only noticing but seeing others comment on. I can't check and you can, so perhaps I'm wrong. Iunno.

[Judge_Worm]

Except the fact that a near-c object generates so much heat and light just by colliding with air molecules, that you will be instantly incinerated. Otherwise, no problems.

We have to default to the rules here, a nuclear explosion (even a quasar caused by relativistic velocity and acceleration), causes no damage, because then it would be an attack, which defaults to rules and not real world physics.

Edit: Does being knocked prone cause falling damage? Someone could be flying through deep space and get tripped by an epic fighter with a bow and a natural 20 with ungodly ranks in spot lesser deity using portfolio sense. And that person might travel billions of light years instantaneously.

[Phelix-Mu]

Don't the falling rules already imply that there is no effect caused by the speed an object moves at and the surrounding air? Wouldn't this stop the railgun from causing explosions as it approached relativistic speeds? A falling character can fall any distance and never explodes, and generally just totally fails to interact with air particles at all. To me, it sounds like there is a fixed coefficient of friction, and that the damage caused by it is either negligible or capped at some pretty low value (low in the sense of non-nuclear).

Could be totally wrong though.

[Erik Vale]

No, there aren't facing rules. But the tower shield specifies a direction. It's the one instance of facing remaining.

Or so I remember; not only noticing but seeing others comment on. I can't check and you can, so perhaps I'm wrong. Iunno.

*Looks*
Huh, Facing is pathfinder.
So you could be a great wyrm dragon using a diminutive tower shield, set it away from the other guy, and become invisible.

[Phelix-Mu]

*Looks*
Huh, Facing is pathfinder.
So you could be a great wyrm dragon using a diminutive tower shield, set it away from the other guy, and become invisible.

Now designing a bit-system form of adaptive camouflage for d&d.

[Fitz10019]

No, there aren't facing rules. But the tower shield specifies a direction. It's the one instance of facing remaining.

Or so I remember; not only noticing but seeing others comment on. I can't check and you can, so perhaps I'm wrong. Iunno.

Some forms of vision are almost like facing, because they're effects are cone-shaped: the bullseye lantern's light, detecting evil/good/magic.