Veins of the Earth - OGL roguelike

[Zireael]

Due to interest expressed elsewhere, I am starting a topic here.

Veins of the Earth is a roguelike based on OGL, drawing heavily from d20 SRD and PF SRD, both available online. However, it is not the first such game to be made - that honor goes to Incursion by Julian Mensch, which has recently been made open-source.

The roguelike is open-source and based on an open-source engine called T-Engine (you might also know it as ToME)

The project started in June 2013, while Incursion was still closed source.

Download the beta

Download bleeding edge



Documentation has been started here.

Development is in no way finished, I have 10+ pages of notes, be they programming-related or mechanics-related.

[Zireael]

Mechanics changes as of 04/11/14

General changes

• fractional saves and BAB are used
• point buy is changed because SRD does not allow replicating it faithfully. We start from 10. The costs are changed, too.
• nerfed darkvision significantly; also, it doesn't stack with light (radius 3 light + darkvision 2 does not equal vision range 5, only 3)
• added Luck stat [to govern loot generation]
• removed Initiative
• saving throws take the better of two stats (Dex-Int; Con-Str; Wis-Cha)
• added Intuition skill for item identification
• added a divine spontaneous spellcaster (an equivalent to a sorcerer)
• XP can be gained in other ways than killing monsters (seeing them, descending to deeper levels)
• lizardfolk, orc, kobold as playable races
• weapons grant parry bonuses [from +1 to +4]
  

Class and race changes

• cleric gets Lay on Hands at 1st level
• fighter gets Summon Mount at 1st level
• Handle Animal skill is based on Wis; Concentration skill is based on Int
• druid has Spellcraft as a class skill
• fighter has Intimidate as a class skill
• sorcerer has Sense Motive and Diplomacy as class skills
• bard, cleric, druid, rogue, ranger, sorcerer, wizard, warlock get Intuition as a class skill
• half-elf gets +2 Cha. Bard as favored class.
• half-drow is a half-elf without +1 diplomacy and with darkvision 2. Cleric as favored class.
• elf has Ranger as favored class.
• drow males have Rogue as favored class
• favored classes add +2 hp per level; also, +1 attack (!=BAB), unless it's wizard; humans have no favored class
• no XP penalty for multiclassing
• classes have attribute score requirements

Combat (feats/spells) changes

• Two Weapon Fighting penalties tweaked to be the same for mainhand and offhand: without TWF, the penalty is -8; without TWF but with a light weapon in offhand it's -6; with TWF it's -4; with TWF & light offhand it's -2. Note that the last two are identical to SRD, they are included for completeness only.
• folded Lightning Reflexes into Dodge; Great Fortitude into Toughness
• Toughness adds +10% hp instead of a flat +3 bonus
• Magic Missile spell allows for Fort save for half damage
• added heal spells which heal a percentage of total hp (as opposed to traditional cure spells)
• all casters gain spells at the same fixed rate - a new spell level every 3rd level

[Zireael]

Since the first two posts are reserved, here go current notes.

The reasoning behind most changes is to make d20 more accessible to players not intricately familiar with the system. Hence granting the sorcerer Spellcraft and changing the attributes for Handle Animal and Concentration. The same applies for the 'new spell level every 3rd level' rule.

The divine sorcerer equivalent was a no-brainer.

Drow male and elf favored class change was to make those two races more interesting for players. Elves get -2 to Con, and to top it with a favored class one which has only d4 HD makes them really squishy and unsuitable for a roguelike.

Darkvision nerf and Initiative removal were due to programming constraints (original darkvision resulted in monsters seeing you from several rooms over, and Init would have been hellishly difficult to implement).

Lightning Reflexes and Great Fortitude were combined with other feats because let's face it, they were pretty meh by themselves. Toughness was changed to make it more attractive, too (who cares about +3 hp when you already have 120 hp?).

[Zireael]

Here are the current classes as I envision them through levels 1-20.

The goal is to have (almost) every level be meaningful, so filling out dead levels.
And for the player to notice immediate changes in character sheet upon level up, we use fractional BAB/saves.

Caster classes (cleric, sorcerer, wizard, shaman, warlock) all need some love. Any ideas? Variants or fixes you could point me to?
Bard and druid are fine, since they have 1 or 2 dead levels in total.

***

(The selection of classes is not complete yet, more classes will probably be added at some point)

P.S. Pardon for not copying the class blocks, but I can't into tables on forums, and what's more, they tend to break regardless.

[Composer99]

Full casting classes don't need lots of class features; the abilities granted by spells are as good or better than most class features at comparable levels. So you can certainly get away with a dead level each time they get a new spell level.

Pathfinder and 5e give sorcerers, clerics, and wizards more special abilities from their bloodlines, domains, and arcane schools, respectively, so that's one direction you can go for adding in class features - in fact I see you've already got sorcerer bloodlines going, so you're pretty much good there.

Don't know what you intend to do with the shaman or warlock. Are they meant to be close to their WotC versions? Is the shaman the divine spontaneous caster?

Edit: Also, looking at the class tables, it looks like the saving throw #s are out of whack with the maths for saving throws in OGL, as are the BAB #s for classes with 3/4 or 1/2 BAB - they're all starting their progression a level late (that is, the current entries for level 2 are supposed to be the ones for level 1).

Is this a deliberate deviation from OGL?

[Zireael]

Edit: Also, looking at the class tables, it looks like the saving throw #s are out of whack with the maths for saving throws in OGL, as are the BAB #s for classes with 3/4 or 1/2 BAB - they're all starting their progression a level late (that is, the current entries for level 2 are supposed to be the ones for level 1).

Is this a deliberate deviation from OGL?

Nope, it's not deliberate, it's me failing Maths :(

Don't know what you intend to do with the shaman or warlock. Are they meant to be close to their WotC versions?

The warlock, more or less so. The shaman, not so much (see below). I think I saw one or two warlock fixes floating around.

Is the shaman the divine spontaneous caster?

Yes, and the name could be changed, I just thought it fit.

[Zireael]

Slowly coding more stuff (spells and class abilities).

In the meantime, brainstorming.


I thought that combat style (Pathfinder style) would be better suited for a fighter than for a ranger. To compensate, I would take away two generic bonus feats fighters get.

The ranger would get either the live in comfort feature (see warden) or strong senses (wild stalker) and something.

What do you think?

[General Patton]

I loved Incursion and tried to enjoy this, but the bugs make it a bit difficult. I'll probably keep trying to play it and see if I can provide more meaningful commentary.

[Zireael]

I loved Incursion and tried to enjoy this, but the bugs make it a bit difficult. I'll probably keep trying to play it and see if I can provide more meaningful commentary.

Try bleeding edge (link added). There was an error in AI code for the last beta. More meaningful feedback is always welcome!

I envisioned this topic as more of a brainstorming session than game feedback, but well, game feedback can happen here too!

[Composer99]

Slowly coding more stuff (spells and class abilities).

In the meantime, brainstorming.


I thought that combat style (Pathfinder style) would be better suited for a fighter than for a ranger. To compensate, I would take away two generic bonus feats fighters get.

The ranger would get either the live in comfort feature (see warden) or strong senses (wild stalker) and something.

What do you think?

One of the things I like about 5th edition is that combat style is now something most (or all) martial classes get (although the way it's done in the two editions is rather different). So if anything, I wouldn't take it away from the ranger, just give it to barbarian, fighter, & paladin and give the ranger something else.

In keeping with the fighter's 3.5/OGL niche, if you were to go down this route, the fighter should get the fighting style benefit about as often as the ranger, and the others should get it less often. Also, given the fighter has literally no other class features in 3.5, and most feats aren't that great, you probably don't even need to take away the fighter's other bonus feats.

Shaman
I wanted to come back to this class for a moment.

In this roguelike game, the shaman is the spontaneous divine caster. Well and good, but of course we want to have other features that distinguish it from the cleric and druid.

I like to think of the shaman as somewhat bridging the gap between the druid's veneration of - and empowerment by - the primal forces of nature, and the cleric's equivalent for external deities (or abstract philosophical concepts).

In my view, the shaman deals with animistic spirits, which can be found throughout the world if one knows where to look. And not just natural spirits (such as plants, animals, and natural features), but also the spirits of the ancestors, or of cosmic forces (the elements, say, or the celestial bodies).

As far as constructing the shaman spell list (which I think would be the primary "class feature"), the shaman would presumably have a "universal" spell list from which the shaman can draw spells known, and then I would suggest one of the following:

(1) The shaman chooses a focus for the spirits he or she deals with, similar to sorcerer bloodlines or cleric domains, which over multiple levels adds spells to the shaman's spells known. The shaman would get associated abilities as well. This makes the shaman more stable

(2) At various levels, the shaman gets to choose one or more spirits to deal/associate with, which add spells to the shaman's spells known based on the type of spirit and the class level selected. At each level the type of spirit would also provide a thematic level-appropriate ability.

[Zireael]

In this roguelike game, the shaman is the spontaneous divine caster. Well and good, but of course we want to have other features that distinguish it from the cleric and druid.

Well, I have no ideas so far.
And while I like the spirits angle, I'm afraid it would get too close to the class from Complete Divine.

[Zireael]

I've updated the wikidot page with the equipment list and some info on the silver standard.

Equipment

In the meantime, I'm working on a drow city - with buildings, factions and new NPCs, all procedurally generated.

[Zireael]

Two questions:
1) flat-footed will take some time to implement, so I need ideas for a replacement feature instead of Uncanny dodge but not improved uncanny dodge
2) Any spells/ACFs/whatevers that would work like 'if I am killed, resurrect me'? A single-use 'come back from the dead' thing?

[Zireael]

1) For uncanny dodge, I came across DDO Wiki, and in Dungeons and Dragons Online, there is no concept of flat-footed and instead, uncanny dodge provides Dodge and Reflex bonuses. What do you think of this solution?

2) Should I make Weapon Focus/Improved Crit and the like apply to weapon categories instead of single weapons?

[Zireael]

Any ideas regarding classes? I'd like to have them all be in the same tier, preferably 4-5.

[Zireael]

Beta 6.5 is out.

Since then, I've managed to print out the room name to screen, making a typical dungeon more interesting (since I could easily replace room name with flavorful descriptions).

[Zireael]

Term end looming ahead, but I've managed to find time for a few bugfixes and some content (dungeons, NPCs) brainstorming.

Incorporated some engine improvements, which should lead to easier item creation and modification.

[Zireael]

Term's nearly ended, so I can get back to coding & brainstorming.

Psionics & spell points frameworks are partially done - especially important now that I've decided sorcerers & shamans will use spell points to differentiate them more from the prepared casters.

[Zireael]

I'm going to take a good look at the Feat synergy thread. Looks like an idea that would be most welcome in the game!

[Zireael]

I found Classical Modern via Internet Archive while researching various feat fixes, feat trees and talent trees.

[Zireael]

Researching talent trees (d20 modern/SW SAGA). Would you like to see them or not?

[Zireael]

This is not a brainstorming post - this is a game mechanics update post.

* Point Blank Shot was folded into Precise Shot
* Precise Shot and Far Shot are now properly implemented
* Sorcerer and shaman classes now use a spell points system outlined in Ernir's thread

[Zireael]

That's right, metamagic feats are finally implemented, except for Enlarge Spell.

I still need to implement Enlarge and Quicken Spell, and apply the heightened spell point cost/use up higher level spell slots properly.

[Blueiji]

This looks really cool! I'll check it out when I get back from my trip this weekend.

[Zireael]

The wikidot site now lists features inspired by existing games (click the word :P). The skills section has also been updated to match the bleeding edge builds.

In other words, I have implemented Heal, Jump and Intimidate skills.

***
I have also changed some of my setup - I am now using GitHub's Atom instead of Sublime Text 3, which has eliminated the indention weirdness and allows me to track all git changes out of the box. It's more difficult to work with multiple folders, though, but I'm hopeful that the quick update rate will have it solved in no time.

For project management, I've found a simple offline note-taking program such as CintaNotes works perfectly - allowing me to group related ideas and to stop doubling them :)

[Zireael]

I've implemented vitality and wounds system, a version of which was on Julian's to-do list for new!Incursion.

The plan isn't that injuries will be hard/impossible to heal, just that they'll take some notable resources and time to do so. So drinking a healing potion will be a notable event rather than a "quaff 3-5 after every fight" routine.

The current plan is for a more realistic combat system that still allows cinematic toughness [...] and then making serious injury and healing a more serious and difficult matter, with healing harder [...]

[Zireael]

Beta 7 is out!

Enjoy a load of bugfixes and content additions!
Metamagic feats, archery feats, (more) usable skills, spell points system, wounds and vitality system and more!

Grab it from GitHub or Bitbucket. Alternately wait for ModDB.

CHANGELOG:

* bug fix - FBO lua error on save load
* bug fix - Lua error & nil exp for creatures with CR in-between table values
* bug fix - character creation screen now does check if a character save already exists
* bug fix - flavored amulets spelling
* bug fix - incorporate the engine fixes for ActorSeenDisplay, making the switch work
* bug fix - shooting not using the weapon's designated crit damage
* bug fix - flyers showing for critters outside lite range
* bug fix - assassin name typo
* bug fix - charges being displayed off or not displayed at all for multiple lines of spells in a spellbook
* bug fix - training stat tracker values are now properly zeroed when increasing stat
* bug fix - no more Lua errors on right clicking talents
* bug fix - no longer having to drop the fireball on yourself
* bug fix - visited zones not being saved leading to Lua errors when changing level
* bug fix - spell failure not canceling spells properly
* bug fix - cheat resurrect no longer throws errors if you happened to die while encumbered
* bug fix - Summon Monster I works as intended
* bug fix - used up arrows and/or thrown weapons are now properly removed
* bug fix - summons' tooltips no longer throws an error [Castler]
* bug fix - mage armor spell no longer warns you when you use it on yourself [Castler]
* bug fix - map no longer going under UI on left-hand side [kudos to Castler for pointing out the fix]
* bug fix - level up achievements now achievable

* update to T-Engine 1.3.0
* make use of engine updates, including room generator & ego functions
* enable sound capabilities
* new spells - divine favor, entropic shield, doom, shield of faith, deathwatch, summon monster II,
* new feats - Master Craftsman
* new NPC: human/dwarf/drow healer, drow tavernkeeper
* sorcerers and shamans now use a spell points system instead of Vancian spellcasting
* implement room descriptions
* hirelings now use party member code from ToME
* implement vitality/wounds system
* implement metamagic feats - Extend, Empower and Maximize Spell
* implement Precise Shot and Far Shot feats
* implement Jump, Intimidate, Heal skills
* implement spell points & psionic power
* consumables now stack
* humanoid NPCs now carry food & light sources
* some animals are now neutral and vermin now constitute their own faction
* unwearable items are highlighted in red; unusable ones in blue
* drow noble house is now named after the House that inhabits it
* can now throw thrown weapons
* low Int characters get separate answers now
* log message is shown when player gains EXP
* UI improvements and bugfixes for feat select screen [Castler]
* stair tooltips show where they lead to if you've been there at least once
* AI no longer walks into chasms/lava/water
* game options screen displayed before the first level is generated
* implement talent configuration from ToME
* item creation debug screen now allows hand-picking egos to be generated
* fixes and improvements to magic item generation

[Zireael]

I'm still working on it, don't you worry!

The loot system has been overhauled and more closely tied to the d20 Wealth-By-Level tables.

The AI learned to pick up items from floor and to swap between melee and ranged weapons as appropriate. To compensate and for quality of life, the player now gets a shoulder slot, from which he can then switch weapons with a single keypress. Keypresses have also been added for a list of wieldable or a list of usable items or a list of those that can be taken off.

I have also adjusted the CR of the giant ant queen, bringing it closer to the Pathfinder version, as it was a pretty frequent early game killer. It's worth remembering that this is a single player game, after all.

I think some more CR adjustments are in order, especially for low CR monsters with Damage Reduction (blink dog, grick).

What do you think? Adjusting d20 to work with a single character is probably the biggest challenge here!

[Almarck]

Which wealth by level table in particular? Or is that a spoiler?

Also, more and more, this game is starting to olook like a proper Roguelike.

[Zireael]

Monster table is this one d20 SRD Treasure Values per Encounter
For NPCs, I'm using this PF NPC-Gear (I like the weapons/protection/magic etc split but it isn't coded yet)
For everything else, such as floor loot and bosses, I'm using this PF Character-Wealth-by-Level

Currently, everything uses the boss table because I haven't yet coded the filters for NPCs :P