Is there going to be a transgender person later in the story?

[Dire Moose]

Actually, by the rules the belt of gender change can be taken off at any time. The gender change itself remains until a Remove Curse spell is used. The comic departs from the rules by linking the belt to the gender change and making the belt itself unable to be removed.

Actually, that presents a legitimate use for the belt under RAW. Maybe it was originally designed for trans people in-universe but enough of the belts accidentally wound up in treasure hoards that it was classified as a cursed item?

[littlebum2002]

Cursed items can't be taken off.

Are you sure? I think only some cursed items have that property.

[Keltest]

Are you sure? I think only some cursed items have that property.

Apparently that is how it works in OOTS. Fortunately for Roy

In my 1st edition DM guide, it says that once the belt is buckled on, the magic curse takes effect and the belt loses all of its magical properties, including the ability to curse again. The curse itself can only be undone with a wish spell (50% chance) or divine intervention.

Im curious how it survived the changes to 3.5th edition though.

[Holy_Knight]

Vaarsuvius has a sex, but quite probably no gender, since V doesn't seem to be concerned about being misgendered. As Inkyrius is also adressed as "parent" by the children, this indicates that this is a trait shared by all of (this particular) elvish society: Gender is just not a thing that matters, and thus has no representation in language)

Unless by "this particular society" you mean "Vaarsuvius, Inkyrius, and their children", then no, it doesn't indicate that. The fact that two married characters choose to raise their children in a certain way tells us about them, but doesn't in itself let us conclude anything about the rest of their society.

[Reddish Mage]

I came in this thread thinking this was going to be about someone thinking the Giant is looking to check boxes, but I see that, instead, we apparently have lots of transgendered, transexual, or perhaps even non-gendered characters in the story.

V really does seem to be agendered to some extent. I wouldn't overestimate this extent however, as V is officially has a gender (which will be kept a mystery forever).

So apparently Sabine may be gender fluid (she has no problem switching between male and female forms), however, given she seems to prefer female forms, and her interactions have a feminine tinge, I wouldn't stress that too much.

We don't have enough information about the Ogre in the background for it (notice pronoun) to really be a "character." Elan is apparently curious, and Roy actually did a sexual switch but not a gender one.

The MiTD may have a shapeshifting ability but no one can be sure about that, and he does not seem to have a shifting gender identity. It appears in the end there could be a case for a lot of things, but I'm not sure there is an actual transgender in the entire story (despite myths about Loki and so on).

[oppyu]

A few terminology clarifications:

This was enormously helpful.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

This was enormously helpful.

Yeah, thanks DaggerPen!

[DaggerPen]

This was enormously helpful.

Yeah, thanks DaggerPen!

Thabks, guys! I'm glad it helped - I was worried it might be a bit much of an info dump. :)

[Themrys]

Everyone "has" a gender, but if you choose not to define yourself as a particular gender, like V, then you would usually go by agender, gender-neutral, or non-binary.

Just to clarify, I use "sex" for the thing (almost) everyone has, and "gender" for that which human societies have invented, and which some would call "gender stereotypes".

I assume V to be perfectly happy with the body V has, and not paying attention to sex the norm in elven society, which is why I doubt V would self-define as one of the above. Likely, V considers hirself a completely normal elf for whom no specific description is needed.

[Themrys]

If, I as sorta-anticipate, MitD plays an important role in defeating Xylon, and the MitD is subsequently revealed to be non-standard in terms of gender and sex, head explosions will be visible from Mars.

I would like to watch that.

(As I mentioned, according to some people's standards, MitD would already be considered non-standard for identifying as a boy and playing with (previously alive) dolls. Did he complain about the Hello-Kitty-umbrella, or just about the hiding?)

[littlebum2002]

Just to clarify, I use "sex" for the thing (almost) everyone has, and "gender" for that which human societies have invented, and which some would call "gender stereotypes".

I assume V to be perfectly happy with the body V has, and not paying attention to sex the norm in elven society, which is why I doubt V would self-define as one of the above. Likely, V considers hirself a completely normal elf for whom no specific description is needed.

But since V does not identify with either gender, that would make hir agender, gender-neutral, or non binary. That's literally what the definition for those are, not identifying with either gender.

[Onyavar]

I hope there is a left-handed pygmy pipewelder, who replicates by spontaneous cell division, later in the story.

Ballerinas are also underrepresented in this comic. Everyone knows how important ballerinas are in any story! And don't forget about social pedagogy. Social pedagogy also hasn't been adressed in the story! (Edit: even normal pedagogy has hardly been adressed. Teachers of the Stickworld, unite against this outrage!)

Seriously. I hope there aren't any "interest groups" who get their very own featured character. In the LGBT pool, we have had so far:

- at least two gay characters I can still remember (the CPPD prison guard and Bandana)
- at least two elves who don't easily identify with a gender
- Roy and the belt of TG, where a main character briefly explored the world in the opposite sex, and even got clerical counseling, and got character growth out of it. (plus, the ogre at the beginning, yeah.)
- and Haley, with her latent bi-curiousity, although she never acted on it on screen
- and, um, well, erm, a necrophiliac (who did a female corpse at least once), though she sure wasn't really your average "sympathy character".

So far, Rich has painted a relaxed view on gender (and race) issues. LGBT seems overall tolerated in OotS-World, even if it's not stabbing the reader into the eye repeatedly. Look at Durkon, the stubborn traditionalist, where he counseled Roy on his curse. You see a friend who is genuinely concerned about the deeper sexual identity of his human comrade.
Now, if I remember correctly, Rich has stated himself before that he doesn't want to introduce an important homosexual character because he'd have no idea how to handle him - being a straight man himself, and with the main cast also being straight.

Introducing a decidedly gay character and displaying him as unsympathetic and/or exaggerated cliche would probably evoke a very unfavorable reader response. Won't you think? The same for a TG character, especially since you have to introduce and develop him for a realistic portrayal. The comic (in my opinion) hasn't screen time left for that. Even if, I can already imagine the main cast response towards such a character:

Oh, interesting. Well, I had my own experience with that, but I'd like to forget it.
Blech. Not the Belkster's cup of tea. I'm feuding a vampire dwarf at the moment, so screw you - however you need it. heh.
Not interested, I'm in a relationship now. And come on, this is lame.
Oh, sure, that's nice. Do you already know my puppet god?
(vampire) ... Biology is disgusting.
And why, praytell, haven't you consulted an experienced colleague of mine with that easily alterable inconvenience?

---

My advice to the OP: If you want to read stories about transgendered, there is a TON out there in the internet. And quite many of these stories are actually of very high quality, I could point you at some. Written by experts or written by actual transgendered or written by people who at least fancy the idea.
Not by an author who seriously shouldn't be expected to write about stuff he has no interest in and who'd need to do a huge amount of research to maybe get it right?

[Bulldog Psion]

Yes, it's a tough one to represent properly, particularly since it basically asks for a long, detailed introspection into the character's inner workings. And a freewheeling adventure comic is a pretty poor venue for a lengthy depiction of one character's inner sexual nuances. Gay is pretty "easy" -- you can just have someone male with a boyfriend/husband or female with a girlfriend/wife.

Transgender requires a lot of mental exploration, however, and as the poster above me points out, it's probably too much to ask of a non-transgender writer to insert something that complex into the last 20% or 25% of a story that is already developing a series of long-time, highly tangled character arcs.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Yes, it's a tough one to represent properly, particularly since it basically asks for a long, detailed introspection into the character's inner workings. And a freewheeling adventure comic is a pretty poor venue for a lengthy depiction of one character's inner sexual nuances. Gay is pretty "easy" -- you can just have someone male with a boyfriend/husband or female with a girlfriend/wife.

Transgender requires a lot of mental exploration, however, and as the poster above me points out, it's probably too much to ask of a non-transgender writer to insert something that complex into the last 20% or 25% of a story that is already developing a series of long-time, highly tangled character arcs.

That is a fairly good point. Especially because by this time in the story, the Giant is probably looking more towards finishing threads than starting new ones.

[CaDzilla]

My advice to the OP: If you want to read stories about transgendered, there is a TON out there in the internet. And quite many of these stories are actually of very high quality, I could point you at some. Written by experts or written by actual transgendered or written by people who at least fancy the idea.

Okay, what are the best ones?

[Honest Tiefling]

In a world of polymorphing and belts of free-whenever-you-want gender reassignment, wouldn't there be a slight issue that a transgender character would be impossible to detect without high levels of magic? We only know that the guard was gay because he was sorta being seduced, and we know Bandana is gay/bi because of a prior relationship. But there's probably others we don't know about because it never was on display. I guess one might reveal themselves by mentioning, oh by the way, when I was a young woman things were different! I would just plain imagine it would be harder to subtly work in that someone is transgendered.

[DaggerPen]

Not to be That Guy, but if I may pick at some grammatical nits here, because I've seen like five people doing this so far-

Transgender. Not transgendered. "Transgender" is already an adjective - the "ed" ending is unnecessary, and implies that "transgender" is a verb, which is just silly.

As for working it casually into the plot - yeah, it's tough. Not undoable, but as someone currently in the midst of a script with a transgender main character who is trying to work it in casually when it's significantly more plot-relevant than it is here, it's a tough one. I'd say the two best ways to do it without making a big deal of it would be to have a convenient flashback to a character that portrays them as a different sex, or someone clearly wearing a Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity, possibly with a bonus "Did ye want me ta cast Remove Curse on ye?" "Hm? Oh, no, I'm very good with this." exchange.

[oppyu]

Hinjo (at North Pole): Oh, I've had some experience with curses.
(cut to younger Hinjo and High Priest of Azure City)
Priest: It seems clear that the ring was actually a Ring of Gender Changing. I have a scroll of remove curse somewhere around here.
Hinjo: ... I'm good, thanks.

That would work pretty well. Instant transgender character without having to delve into all the drama or gender issues in media that's not really suited for it.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Hinjo (at North Pole): Oh, I've had some experience with curses.
(cut to younger Hinjo and High Priest of Azure City)
Priest: It seems clear that the ring was actually a Ring of Gender Changing. I have a scroll of remove curse somewhere around here.
Hinjo: ... I'm good, thanks.

That would work pretty well. Instant transgender character without having to delve into all the drama or gender issues in media that's not really suited for it.

Huh, that would be interesting to see.

[DaggerPen]

Hinjo (at North Pole): Oh, I've had some experience with curses.
(cut to younger Hinjo and High Priest of Azure City)
Priest: It seems clear that the ring was actually a Ring of Gender Changing. I have a scroll of remove curse somewhere around here.
Hinjo: ... I'm good, thanks.

That would work pretty well. Instant transgender character without having to delve into all the drama or gender issues in media that's not really suited for it.

... yup, that'd do it. Nice one.

[Darth Paul]

And yet, it would be sure to begin another endless thread over whether such a character was "neccesary" to the story, or simply "pandering to a demographic"... and it would probably weed out a few more bigots who refuse to buy OOTS books if they have a transgender character in them... For my money, that would be a net gain (-1 for the long futile debate thread, + several thousand for the bigot weeding).

I agree an exchange like the above would be an artful way to do it (although there may be some passing comment in canon establishing Hinjo as a lifelong "male", so another character would have to be used...).

[Akolyte01]

I hope that there's a transgender person later in the story

Why? How could that possibly add to the story in any way more than as a diversity checkmark?

[oppyu]

I'm guessing any such character would be doing more than walking on screen, identifying as trans and wandering off. So they'd add to the story in that fashion, like how Bandana's adding more to the narrative than letting Rich go "HEY! I GOT A LESBIAN IN THE COMIC, YAY FOR DIVERSITY AND REPRESENTATION."

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Why? How could that possibly add to the story in any way more than as a diversity checkmark?

The same way that any other new character adds to the story. This one just happens to be slightly different from the rest is all.

[Darth Paul]

And yet, it would be sure to begin another endless thread over whether such a character was "neccesary" to the story, or simply "pandering to a demographic"...

Why? How could that possibly add to the story in any way more than as a diversity checkmark?

Told you so. And the character's NOT EVEN HERE yet.

[Serpentine]

Transsexual: You have undergone genital reassignment surgery and, usually, hormone replacement therapy, as well as sometimes top surgery to remove breasts, hair removal, etc. Because the process is long and expensive and many doctors will not sign off on it without extensive documentation, plus the fact that many people actually do not want it, most transgender people are not transsexual. Not actually used that much anymore because of those facts, in my experience.

Mostly good, but one clarification: Surgery and hormones are not necessary to be transsexual. In fact, generally being diagnosed as transsexual is required to gain legal access to surgery and hormones. Many transsexual people do not get any surgery or, less often, hormones, but they're still transsexual - it's complicated, but according to the LGBTAI thread's own glossary, it is the desire to transition from one sex to the other that makes them transsexual. "Transgender" is a more general term that covers a variety of non-gendernormativity, including transsexuality.

I've sort of started a bit of a habit of assuming one or more characters in things are trans, just cuz, as mentioned, you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell either way. I quite like oppyu's way of bringing it up, or possibly having an anti-magic effect and someone suddenly changing shape somewhat (and potentially being quite upset about that). It could be tricky to do without being unintentionally insulting or causing another bad reaction, though.

[littlebum2002]

Not to be That Guy, but if I may pick at some grammatical nits here, because I've seen like five people doing this so far-

Transgender. Not transgendered. "Transgender" is already an adjective - the "ed" ending is unnecessary, and implies that "transgender" is a verb, which is just silly.

LOL. Whenever I hear "transgendered" I think how weird it would be if people used the word "gayed"

Why? How could that possibly add to the story in any way more than as a diversity checkmark?

Realism

Mostly good, but one clarification: Surgery and hormones are not necessary to be transsexual. In fact, generally being diagnosed as transsexual is required to gain legal access to surgery and hormones. Many transsexual people do not get any surgery or, less often, hormones, but they're still transsexual - it's complicated, but according to the LGBTAI thread's own glossary, it is the desire to transition from one sex to the other that makes them transsexual. "Transgender" is a more general term that covers a variety of non-gendernormativity, including transsexuality.

I've sort of started a bit of a habit of assuming one or more characters in things are trans, just cuz, as mentioned, you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell either way. I quite like oppyu's way of bringing it up, or possibly having an anti-magic effect and someone suddenly changing shape somewhat (and potentially being quite upset about that). It could be tricky to do without being unintentionally insulting or causing another bad reaction, though.

I didn't want to say anything, because DaggerPen's post was so otherwise great, but yeah. Transsexual just means you identify with the other sex. No hormones or surgery is needed to be transsexual. That is actually the definition of "post-op transsexual"

Also, that would be a great way to introduce a trans character.

[Honest Tiefling]

Not to be That Guy, but if I may pick at some grammatical nits here, because I've seen like five people doing this so far-

Transgender. Not transgendered. "Transgender" is already an adjective - the "ed" ending is unnecessary, and implies that "transgender" is a verb, which is just silly.

No wonder my spell check didn't like it! Thanks for the tip. Then again, my spelling is always bad.

[DaggerPen]

Mostly good, but one clarification: Surgery and hormones are not necessary to be transsexual. In fact, generally being diagnosed as transsexual is required to gain legal access to surgery and hormones. Many transsexual people do not get any surgery or, less often, hormones, but they're still transsexual - it's complicated, but according to the LGBTAI thread's own glossary, it is the desire to transition from one sex to the other that makes them transsexual. "Transgender" is a more general term that covers a variety of non-gendernormativity, including transsexuality.

Whups! Thanks for the correction, guys - like I said, I mostly just hear people using the umbrella "transgender" term, so I guess I must've picked that one up wrong. I'll amend my post for correctness once I'm off mobile - much obliged.

No wonder my spell check didn't like it! Thanks for the tip. Then again, my spelling is always bad.

Heh, no problem - it's a really common error for some reason, maybe because "gendered" is also an adjective ("gendered clothing," etc.)

English, man. What are you gonna do.

[Cizak]

Why? How could that possibly add to the story in any way more than as a diversity checkmark?

Because you wouldn't be asking why if a new character came along and indentified themselves as hetero.