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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default A couple of spells

    In the fabled floating city of Meronia, an order of warrior wizards practice a unique style of combat known as Telekinetic Swordsmanship. Blending magic and swordplay through unending study and drill these Knights learn to wield their weapons not with the strength of their arm but the strength of their minds.

    The Mage Knight of Meronia was a PRC I had made for a group of NPCs in my first campaign in 3.0. I always liked the concept but since PRC's are kind on the outs in Pathfinder it thought I would try and create the PRC's class abilities as spells.

    Looking for any feedback you guys might have, especially as it concerns to balance.

    Mage's Extended Actuators
    School Transmutation Level Magus 1, Sorcerer/wizard 1, Bard 1
    Casting Time 1 Standard Action
    Components V, S
    Range 10ft
    Target One unattended Tool or Weapon
    Duration 1 Round/level
    Saving Throw None Spell Resistance No
    Effect
    You reach out telekinetically and take hold of an unattended tool or weapon, or a tool or weapon on your person from a distance. For the duration of this spell you utilize this object as though your natural reach was extended by 10ft. You utilize the object as though it were in your hand for all purposes except that you cannot be disarmed and any spells that effect your grip on the object such as grease or heat metal have no effect and you cannot deliver touch spells with this extended reach. When the spell effect expires you can choose to either let the item drop or return it to your hand.


    Mage's Many Manipulators
    School Transmutation Level Magus 2, Sorcerer/wizard 2, Bard 2
    Casting Time 1 Standard Action
    Components V, S
    Range Personal
    Target You
    Duration 1 Round/level
    Saving Throw None Spell Resistance No
    Effect
    You reach out with telekinetic tendrils, developing the ability to interact with the world through force of will as though you had more hands. For the duration of this spell you are treated as though you have 1 additional hand per 3 levels. These are treated as your normal hands for all purposes except that you cannot be disarmed and any spells that effect your grip on the object such as grease or heat metal have no effect.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: A couple of spells

    Extended Actuators looks just about right for a 1st level spell. At worst, on a Magus, you trade the ability to spell channel for whip-like reach. I'm curious what happens, though, if the hands are attacked for some reason, say disarming a dangerous trap.

    On Many Manipulators, having that many arms quickly leads to some absurdity. This is on the Magus list, and scales faster than the max attacks of an eidolon, which is already a benchmark of "Way too many attacks". I think at the very least, the 2nd level spell needs to be simply +1 arm, and a Magus 3/Wizard 4 version should be 1 arm/4 caster levels, which with the caster's 2 arms, should put it back on that benchmark at least.

    Just as an aside from the original reason for these spells, though, Pathfinder got rid of most PRCs, making them archetypes instead. If you had a Magus Archetype that traded something for the Generalist Wizard Hand of the Apprentice, and had a few special arcana that let them wield more weapons as if they had more arms, I think that gets a lot closer to your flavor without letting everyone who can get a scroll of this do it.
    http://superrunner2003.wordpress.com/ - A blog of my personal Pathfinder homebrew material

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: A couple of spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    Just as an aside from the original reason for these spells, though, Pathfinder got rid of most PRCs, making them archetypes instead. If you had a Magus Archetype that traded something for the Generalist Wizard Hand of the Apprentice, and had a few special arcana that let them wield more weapons as if they had more arms, I think that gets a lot closer to your flavor without letting everyone who can get a scroll of this do it.
    I agree with Kamai that converting the Mage Knight PRC into a Magus archetype is probably more fitting than creating spells, but I don't really know much about the Mage Knight.

    As far as the spells you've proposed, why do they still rely on "strength of their arms?" For instance MEA only says, "You utilize the object as if it were in your hand for all purposes except..." which indicates you use your regular Strength modifier for wielding melee weapons with this spell. I think it would make more sense for the attacks to be Dex-based with an Int/Wis/Cha-based damage bonus.

    Also, how exactly do weapons/tools for Larger or larger creatures fit in with this? I suppose the in-your-hand reading would give small creatures a penalty with Medium or larger weapons. However the weapons are being wielded through magic instead of the strength/size of the caster (I assume), so why should a human caster be inherently better at this than a halfling? I think a caster level-based weight (or size, I suppose) restriction on weapons/tools used might level the playing field for creatures of different sizes.

    Anyway, those are my thoughts on this matter. I hope your spell(s)/archetype turns out great!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2013

    Default Re: A couple of spells

    Mage's Extended Actuators As the spell just gives a character 10 reach, the whole telekiniees bit is just a bunch of clutter. And it brings up the questions like how fast does the item move? Can the item be attacked? Or grabbed? What if something blocks the caster from the weapon? Would a disarm effect vs the caster still work? They need to ''hold'' the item in one hand, right? ''just like they were holding it for real''? Does the weapon stay with the caster if they say, fall in a pit?

    Maybe just make this a force spell and have the force shape around the item, extending it's range to 10?

    Mage's Many Manipulators More hands? Well this can get out of hand very quickly. This spell is open for lots of abuse. Like can a hand from this spell hold a shield? A wand? A crossbow? The charge of a touch spell? And it really can break the whole action economy with things like you can hold something useful in your hand ''at the ready'' and not have to take time getting it out. And lots of other problems....

    This spell is just too poorly balanced...

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Copenhagen
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: A couple of spells

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronH View Post
    In the fabled floating city of Meronia, an order of warrior wizards practice a unique style of combat known as Telekinetic Swordsmanship. Blending magic and swordplay through unending study and drill these Knights learn to wield their weapons not with the strength of their arm but the strength of their minds.

    The Mage Knight of Meronia was a PRC I had made for a group of NPCs in my first campaign in 3.0. I always liked the concept but since PRC's are kind on the outs in Pathfinder it thought I would try and create the PRC's class abilities as spells.

    Looking for any feedback you guys might have, especially as it concerns to balance.

    Mage's Extended Actuators
    School Transmutation Level Magus 1, Sorcerer/wizard 1, Bard 1
    Casting Time 1 Standard Action
    Components V, S
    Range 10ft
    Target One unattended Tool or Weapon
    Duration 1 Round/level
    Saving Throw None Spell Resistance No
    Effect
    You reach out telekinetically and take hold of an unattended tool or weapon, or a tool or weapon on your person from a distance. For the duration of this spell you utilize this object as though your natural reach was extended by 10ft. You utilize the object as though it were in your hand for all purposes except that you cannot be disarmed and any spells that effect your grip on the object such as grease or heat metal have no effect and you cannot deliver touch spells with this extended reach. When the spell effect expires you can choose to either let the item drop or return it to your hand.


    Mage's Many Manipulators
    School Transmutation Level Magus 2, Sorcerer/wizard 2, Bard 2
    Casting Time 1 Standard Action
    Components V, S
    Range Personal
    Target You
    Duration 1 Round/level
    Saving Throw None Spell Resistance No
    Effect
    You reach out with telekinetic tendrils, developing the ability to interact with the world through force of will as though you had more hands. For the duration of this spell you are treated as though you have 1 additional hand per 3 levels. These are treated as your normal hands for all purposes except that you cannot be disarmed and any spells that effect your grip on the object such as grease or heat metal have no effect.
    I like the idea, but I would indeed increase the level of the Mage's Many Manipulators to somewhere between 3 and 5 and add a maximum of +6 hands at level 18. I would also add a material component or perhaps even a focus. Perhaps a skeletal hand or for component a finger bone.

    Perhaps you should add a max weight the hands could carry, and perhaps even the same 1d4 temporary HP reduction which spectral hand also apply.

    But all in all, with some work, they could be a real nice addition to the caster who enjoys owning his enemies en a manual way!
    Last edited by Melcar; 2014-11-12 at 06:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by chaotic stupid View Post
    tippy's posted, thread's over now

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

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