Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIII

[Sian]

think i'm starting to solidify on a build ... lets see if i can get it to work beyond stub format

[copycatcat]

I've been done with crunch for a while, but a bunch of different options came to me on the fluff, and I'm in that proccess of deciding which backstory I want to use. And occasionally make minor crunch edits when I realize I did something wrong/stupid.

[The Viscount]

http://imgur.com/YthjdWZ Okay, so I don't know if you guys can see the picture, but here I a rough sketch of the trophy. If you can see it, what do you think?

That looks amazing. If that's your rough, I'd love to see the finished product. We greatly appreciate your effort; it's been a while since we've had trophies.

[OMG PONIES]

we don't provide an equipment list for iron chef, so just ignore it.

Please note, while equipment lists aren't a large focus in Iron Chef, ignoring a class feature of the Secret Ingredient is usually frowned upon as well. Classic Catch-22, ain't it?

technically, then that's your fault for using the integument, when you could have been dismissing it. And it has 10/20 hardness/hp per essentia, so it's hardly fragile.

although soulmeld-unshapers.. just don't use it. Pretend that ability isn't there, and stick to the mage shackles. Or just, y'know, cage the guy who has a dispel prepared.

Wow, we're only on page 3 and we've already suggested ignoring 20% of the Ingredient's class features. If we keep up at this rate, we may wind up with folks suggesting to not even take Witchborn Binder! Hey, that's not a bad idea...

let's not forget who the real enemy is:

witchborn binder.

Fight the real enemy!



Viva le MS Paint!

Deepest apologies if anyone was planning on entering a Skarn Monk 10. You're insane.

You overestimate the sanity of this group.

http://imgur.com/YthjdWZ Okay, so I don't know if you guys can see the picture, but here I a rough sketch of the trophy. If you can see it, what do you think?

Sweet, awesome, excellent, wunderbar, muy bueno, and welcome!

Gonna try my hand at this one. It may be a bit...weird.

[Venger]

Please note, while equipment lists aren't a large focus in Iron Chef, ignoring a class feature of the Secret Ingredient is usually frowned upon as well. Classic Catch-22, ain't it?

I was just trying to give a bit of friendly advice since in the past whenever so much as a piece of equipment is mentioned, I've seen dishes get slammed pretty hard, so it's probably not in his best interests. besides, your johnny dollar expense account is so small it's not really enough to do much with.

Wow, we're only on page 3 and we've already suggested ignoring 20% of the Ingredient's class features. If we keep up at this rate, we may wind up with folks suggesting to not even take Witchborn Binder! Hey, that's not a bad idea...

well it's not our fault for ignoring them, it's their fault for not doing anything. although you may be onto something there

Fight the real enemy!



Viva le MS Paint!

lol, that's what I was going for, good catch.



You overestimate the sanity of this group.



Sweet, awesome, excellent, wunderbar, muy bueno, and welcome!



[/QUOTE]

Deepest apologies if anyone was planning on entering a Skarn Monk 10. You're insane.

But how else am I supposed to practice for when you commit an act of unprovoked spinemeld warrior on us?

[Heliomance]

But how else am I supposed to practice for when you commit an act of unprovoked spinemeld warrior on us?

Don't worry, that won't be until, ooh, probably March at the earliest.

[Venger]

Don't worry, that won't be until, ooh, probably March at the earliest.

I'm sure we'll do something to deserve it between now and then.

[Heliomance]

I'm sure we'll do something to deserve it between now and then.

It might evegn be a bit later thagn that.

[Martimus Prime]

It's a bit late in the contest, but I'd like to throw my hat into the ring. I have a couple ideas bouncing around, and an eternal fondness for wonky anti-caster classes, so hopefully I can crank out something better optimized this time around...

[Heliomance]

It's a bit late in the contest, but I'd like to throw my hat into the ring. I have a couple ideas bouncing around, and an eternal fondness for wonky anti-caster classes, so hopefully I can crank out something better optimized this time around...

You still have a week and a half left, there's plenty of time.

[zeifly]

http://m.imgur.com/XkXQp6T,Mgl5ahQ,BpvpijB

Here it is! The finished drawing of the trophy! What do you guys think? I hope you like it. I'm honored to have been able to draw this for you guys! Never stop rolling!

-Z

[Venger]

It might evegn be a bit later thagn that.

oh god gno...

[The Viscount]

It might evegn be a bit later thagn that.

The horror... The horror...

[Zipding]

I think I finally have an idea on how to use this terribad class of suckiness.

Unfortunately, I have to make sure the rest of it isn't overshadowing the SI and asking the question "Why didn't you take anything else?"

I just found out that none of the Incarnum based classes actually have Use Rope as a class skill. This is going to be so much fun.

[Heliomance]

*fumes*
Skarn Monk is an abomination. I'm trying to add it to HeroForge Anew, but that last ability! That Shape Soulmeld that breaks all the rules! I think that's going to take nearly as much effort as a full meldshaping class to implement, for one whole soulmeld! Gah!

[Muggins]

*fumes*
Skarn Monk is an abomination. I'm trying to add it to HeroForge Anew, but that last ability! That Shape Soulmeld that breaks all the rules! I think that's going to take nearly as much effort as a full meldshaping class to implement, for one whole soulmeld! Gah!

Look at it this way: That means you're one step closer to adding all the other soulmeld classes later on! It'll be great!

[Venger]

*fumes*
Skarn Monk is an abomination. I'm trying to add it to HeroForge Anew, but that last ability! That Shape Soulmeld that breaks all the rules! I think that's going to take nearly as much effort as a full meldshaping class to implement, for one whole soulmeld! Gah!

Heroforge lacks the Skarn monk
If no one builds one
Will it really be missing?

[Fax Celestis]

Heroforge lacks the Skarn monk
If no one builds one
Will it really be missing?

A haiku:

Skarn monk sucks so hard.
Why do you even bother?
No one will notice.

[Heliomance]

Look at it this way: That means you're one step closer to adding all the other soulmeld classes later on! It'll be great!

I've already done the others; the variant classes are basically the last bit of MoI I have left to do. But adding this one level of Skarn Monk is going to take a wildly disproportionate amount of effort for the actual effect.

[Venger]

I've already done the others; the variant classes are basically the last bit of MoI I have left to do. But adding this one level of Skarn Monk is going to take a wildly disproportionate amount of effort for the actual effect.

now you know how people who have to take that one level of skarn monk feel.

[WhamBamSam]

I should have time to judge over Thanksgiving, and I'm not gonna be submitting, so here's some criteria.

Originality

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Start from a baseline score of 3.

Up to 1 point of bonus or penalty based on whether the classes/race/ect you used were things I expected and whether they were used by other entrants. Known cheese or standard handbook fare will see a deduction here. As Totemist and Incarnate are the only ways to complete this SI pre-Epic, no bonus or penalty for those classes (though sub-levels, acfs, or the like may be another story), and some particularly ubiquitous races (human or essentially human) will similarly not be rewarded or penalized. Also note that I will only reward an unexpected racial or class choice if it actually serves a purpose within the build. No points for "shameless originality grabs."

Up to 1 point of bonus or penalty to a build doing something interesting or something we've all seen it before respectively. You can fill a common niche without incurring my wrath, but I'd like to see a new spin on it. Cool factor in your crunch may see a bonus here.

Up to a 0.25 point bonus if I find your fluff to be particularly excellent.

Power

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Start from a baseline score of 3

Up to 0.75 point of bonus or penalty based on how beneficial or harmful the SI is to your build. A 0 is a build which isn't especially helped or hindered by having Witchborn Binder in it.

Up to 1.25 points of bonus or penalty for how well you do the things that you do. For example, if you're a front line fighter, how good are you at hurting things? If you're a caster, do you lose a lot of caster levels? Are your tricks easy to shut down and can you function if you can't go with your usual MO?

Elegance

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Start from a baseline score of 3.

Each failure to qualify for a non-SI class or feat results in a 0.5 point deduction. Qualifying for all such things gets you a bonus of 0.5.

Up to 1 point of penalty for questionable rules interpretations and for any cheese stinky enough to make it onto my personal ban list (note that I'm pretty cheese tolerant, in general). Avoidance of such things gets you a bonus of 0.5.

Up to 1 point of bonus or penalty based on the overall flow of the build and how well everything fits together. A clean, flowing progression will score more points, whereas something that feels awkward may be penalized. As with cheese, I'm not going to try to be especially punitive toward dipping, unless you're really asking for it. Note that I try not to reward "shameless elegance grabs" any moreso than I will "shameless originality grabs." For example, I may consider 2/3/5/10 more elegant than 5/5/10 depending on circumstances.

I'll assign a 0.25 point penalty for incurring multiclass penalties that can't be easily resolved by rearranging levels. They're a stupid, stupid rule, but they are a rule.

Up to 0.5 points of bonus or penalty if the build just screams classy or is especially distasteful in a way not quantified by the above.

Use of Secret Ingredient

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Start From a Baseline Score of 1.

Good uses of the collective prereqs, Deetect Magic ability, and extra essentia are worth 0.25 points apiece.

Good uses of Dispelling Orb, Mage Shackles, Word of Abrogation, Spiritflay, Grim Integument, and meldshaping progression are worth 0.5 points apiece. Unlike the above category of abilities, you may receive partial credit (0.25 points) for these abilities if you make some use of them.

Any ability in which I feel you've gone "above and beyond" in your use will get an additional 0.25 point bonus (so 0.5 for the minor abilities and 0.75 for the major ones).

Failure to qualify for the SI will result in a -0.25 point penalty to each class ability, to a minimum of 0. So abilities that you neither use nor qualify for don't hurt you, but you need to qualify for the things you do use to get rewarded for them.

If you leave the SI early, but provide a convincing explanation as to why this is a better use of the secret ingredient (better use of the ingredient, mind, not just making your build better), then you will receive partial credit for abilities you miss.

[KrimsonNekros]

I'm kinda annoyed atm. I was going to use [redacted], but [redacted], forced [redacted] instead. A curse upon you [redacted]!

[Zipding]

I'm kinda annoyed atm. I was going to use [redacted], but [redacted], forced [redacted] instead. A curse upon you [redacted]!

I'm annoyed too. I had an idea, but had to change it due to the requirements for this class. I've got a good chunk of the build done, I'm going to look it over before detailing the strategies and backstory.

I also have to worry about the other stuff overshadowing the SI, which is very easy to do.

[Sian]

*Scatches head* ... anyone that can come with a good reasoning why Mage Shackles and Grim Intugement are (Su) when they explictly call out that you have to check against Spell Resistance ... which is one of the major differences between (Sp) and (Su), (Su) usually not having to do it?

or should it be chalked down to writers not understanding the rules?

[Troacctid]

*Scatches head* ... anyone that can come with a good reasoning why Mage Shackles and Grim Intugement are (Su) when they explictly call out that you have to check against Spell Resistance ... which is one of the major differences between (Sp) and (Su), (Su) usually not having to do it?

or should it be chalked down to writers not understanding the rules?

Soulmeld-magic transparency. All soulmeld effects are SR: Yes by default.

[Zaq]

Soulmeld-magic transparency. All soulmeld effects are SR: Yes by default.

That's all well and good, but Mage Shackles and Grim Integument are very much not soulmelds.

[Troacctid]

That's all well and good, but Mage Shackles and Grim Integument are very much not soulmelds.

Right, so if they're going to be consistent with the rules for soulmelds, they need specific language in their description saying that spell resistance applies.

[Sian]

my whole point is that if they were (sp) instead of (Su) they would have defaulted into "spell resistance applies" ...

from what i can see there is three different major differences between (sp) and (su)

1:

(sp) defaults to DC 10 + Spell Level + Cha
(su) defaults to DC 10 + ½ HD + Cha

neither of which are relevant since both abilities have specific types of saves

2:
(sp) is resisted by Spell Resistance
(su) aren't

abilities are (su) but explicitly note that they're targeted by spell resistance

3:

(sp) can be dispelled
(su) can't be dispelled

except for the fact that both abilites note that they can be unshaped, which is a subsystem specific name for dispelling, so they can be dispelled.

Tell me again ... is there any reason why they are (su) instead of (sp)?

[Zaq]

my whole point is that if they were (sp) instead of (Su) they would have defaulted into "spell resistance applies" ...

from what i can see there is three different major differences between (sp) and (su)

1:

(sp) defaults to DC 10 + Spell Level + Cha
(su) defaults to DC 10 + ½ HD + Cha

neither of which are relevant since both abilities have specific types of saves

2:
(sp) is resisted by Spell Resistance
(su) aren't

abilities are (su) but explicitly note that they're targeted by spell resistance

3:

(sp) can be dispelled
(su) can't be dispelled

except for the fact that both abilites note that they can be unshaped, which is a subsystem specific name for dispelling, so they can be dispelled.

Tell me again ... is there any reason why they are (su) instead of (sp)?

Well, SLAs provoke, and Su abilities don't. Of course, Grim Integument still says that it provokes, but at least it's something for Mage Shackles?

[Troacctid]

They are Incarnum-like abilities.