Metahuman Registration

[stcfg]

Well being an international traveler is not generally something that will happen to you from an accident or birth. It's entirely up to you whether you want to travel outside of the country or not (with a few scant exceptions). Registration is more based on the idea that all people of a certain religion should have to go through more stringent passport control because radicals among that religion have been responsible for a number of plane hijackings. Sure the registration could be seen as effective since it would make religious terrorists easier to identify and stop due to the increased scrutiny, but few people would deny that there isn't some degree of prejudice involved in the measure, especially given that the majority of members of this religion have neither the means nor the interest to hijack a plane, but are still forced to go through this increased scrutiny because they have a few similarities to these dangerous individuals.

No one's denying that most citizens are already on some form of registration already. But the issue with superhuman registration is that it places increased scrutiny on a person for abilities (which many have no control over) that fall under the same umbrella as more dangerous powers that should be controlled.

I think some people treat the term metahuman as a social construct and believe they should be treated the same as social group like religion, race or ethnicity.

Some other people treat the term metahuman as a medical condition and believe they should be treated like people in the same medical categorization like epileptics and blind people, except in many cases it is an improvement instead of an impairment.

I believe it is closer to the latter than the former with few scant exceptions. Increased scrutiny for people with medical conditions in certain cases is entirely reasonable eg. blind people aren't allowed to drive.

The issue with superpowers is that they are not always stable or controllable so even powers that are considered harmless can become dangerous through no fault of the person that possesses them. Some examples are animated spiderman powers mutating turning him into a man-spider, and the whole exploding man fiasco from Heroes.

People have a duty to try a keep their superpowers from harming others. Part of that includes medical examinations to determine the stability of their powers as well training to control their powers. Neglecting that duty is not grave crime that requires life imprisonment but akin to something like throwing away your jury duty summons. Without registration, enforcing that duty is effectively impossible.

Most fiction treats metahumans as social group to parallel discrimination against social groups. I don't think that's right because being metahuman is closer to having a medical condition than being in any religion or ethnicity. While people with medical conditions have a right to not be discriminated against because of their medical condition, other people have a right to not be harmed because of someone else medical conditions. Like with every single law written in history, we have to find an appropriate balance between the rights of individuals and the safety of society. Mandatory medical examination to determine the stability of their powers and well as training is a minor inconvenience at most as well as something people should be doing anyway. Not doing enough could lead to unnecessary death and violence when someone loses control of their powers, while doing too much will lead to death camps as well unnecessary death and violence.

[Ravian]

Of course the issue is that while some meta-humans have dangerous and uncontrollable powers, most in superhero comics do not. Realize that even the Stanford incident that started the registration process wasn't about superheroes losing control of their powers. For all intents and purposes the New Warriors had no problem controlling their abilities, for the most part they were doing fairly well in their battle against the super villains they were fighting despite the fact that they weren't as powerful as any of the Avengers. Of course the problem occurred when they put Nitro, who was very much above their weight class, up against the wall in a suburban area by an elementary school. It wasn't that their powers were dangerous. (Well Nitro's certainly was, but that's more of an issue of the government not deciding to execute a guy that can turn himself into a living bomb and survive.) it's that they were a bunch of hot-shots who felt they were ready to move into the big leagues, when they really weren't.

That's why the most obvious solution to preventing another Stanford isn't "Draft every superhuman into the government because they might be dangerous." it's A: Make sure that criminals with super powers as dangerous as Nitro's don't have the chance of escaping and committing crimes again. and B: Provide an incentive for superheroes to learn how to effectively use their superpowers, so they don't do stupid things like the New Warriors did.

Comic books have effectively proven time and time again that for the most part, superheroes are the most efficient solution to super-villains, and nearly every time the government attempts to take a greater role in controlling superhumans (beyond sponsoring superhero teams such as the Avengers and hiring their own superhumans to help their agents) it goes badly. (typically because someone hires Norman Osbourne as SHIELD director or turns Ronald Regan into a snake-person.)


Edit:

Also what should be mentioned is that while its possible to construe metahumans as those with a medical condition, even in this case you shouldn't institute the same sort of blanket scrutiny as you would with the registration act. Blind people can't drive. But does that mean that people with dust allergies can't either? Similarly should a mutant with no powers aside from having a horse's head face the same sort of restrictions as a reality warper?

[Reddish Mage]

Most fiction treats metahumans as social group to parallel discrimination against social groups. I don't think that's right because being metahuman is closer to having a medical condition than being in any religion or ethnicity. While people with medical conditions have a right to not be discriminated against because of their medical condition, other people have a right to not be harmed because of someone else medical conditions. Like with every single law written in history, we have to find an appropriate balance between the rights of individuals and the safety of society. Mandatory medical examination to determine the stability of their powers and well as training is a minor inconvenience at most as well as something people should be doing anyway. Not doing enough could lead to unnecessary death and violence when someone loses control of their powers, while doing too much will lead to death camps as well unnecessary death and violence.

"Metahuman" is completely nonsensical as a medical condition. The designation includes people who happen to possess potent technology, or who read musty old books that teach a potent way of incantation, or who pick up the right hammer or put on an old helmet.

Metahumans come in so many shapes, sizes, origins, and vastly differing capacities, that a theorized catchall government program that seeks to "treat" metahumans can do its job in a manner that helps metahumans develop their powers.

What you are assuming in suggesting these programs like the most obvious, reasonable, societal way for deal with metahumans is: it is so obvious government has the capacity to understand metahumans let alone educate them on how to use their powers. Government, aka AN ENTITY CREATED, ORGANIZED, AND OPERATED BY FEARFUL MUNDANES FOR FEARFUL MUNDANES will know exactly how to fully develop metahumans to their theoretical potential and keep everyone safe in the process.

This is exactly what metahumans should think, if they are confronted by an organization that has somehow lumped brilliant scientists together with hi-tech thieves, laboratory test subjects, lightning victims, experimental drug takers and the next stage of human evolution together with just one word and thinks that they have a single catchall program to teach them all how to simultaneously use their gifts in the simultaneously most safe and most effective manner (have you noticed a contradiction here?). Especially, when the promoters of the is program use analogies like "treating" a medical patient.

I cannot for the life of me see why people can't see that such a program, given opposing goals of developing metahuman powers and keeping people safe from them, wouldn't end up simply trying to remove, hobble, and systematically suppressing powers because that is the only way you can really keep people safe from them (especially since its very unlikely the people running the program are capable of understanding how metahuman powers work in the first place, let alone teach others how to use them)...

It seems to me the only way to really keep everyone absolutely safe from metahumans is by killing them all, and ensuring someone watches over the bodies to make sure none of them come back to life (they have an odd way doing that).

A government program answerable to fearful mundanes and charged with safely developing metahumans will no doubt take an overly cautious approach and usually choose to suppress powers rather than develop them.

[stcfg]

Of course all powers are different and require different levels of scrutiny. Horseface person should probably have the same level as spiderman to prevent a man-spider or man-horse incident.

I think "powers" that are from external equipment or knowledge should not be counted as metahuman and should be regulated under different authorities. There should be an authority to regulate wmds as well as on for magic.

Professor X essentially runs a program to keep people safe from uncontrolled mutant powers and well as mutants safe from ignorant people. I don't see how giving him public funding suddenly leads to genocide.

The government should work for all people in it jurisdiction not just the mundanes.

A lot of the criticism of registration is from how is was executed in the comic books. It is entirely possible for a registration program to work for the benefit of all people. It happened in "What if iron man lost the civil war?". The registration program kept going but Captain America was put in charge because superheroes trusted him. It was puppies and sunshine for everything else as far a I know. So a responsible government that can have registration without genocide is even possible in the mess that is the Marvel universe.

[Reddish Mage]

A lot of the criticism of registration is from how is was executed in the comic books. It is entirely possible for a registration program to work for the benefit of all people. It happened in "What if iron man lost the civil war?". The registration program kept going but Captain America was put in charge because superheroes trusted him. It was puppies and sunshine for everything else as far a I know. So a responsible government that can have registration without genocide is even possible in the mess that is the Marvel universe.

First of all "possible" does not prove your positions regarding registration, which you presented as a sort of one-size fits all-metahuman worlds solution based on essential truths about metahumans, humans, and government (and its proper role of things), not to mention more essential truths about illness and doctors and so on.

I responded by somewhat overstating things in a similarly overly essential manner to suggest situations which I think are closer to what certain items I have read or seen is telling me how the scenario would actually play out. The aside about genocide being the only way to ensure absolute safety I tried to insert in a way that was clear it was an aside about genocide, not a prediction. There are sentences in which I make predictions about a program, I think a government-mandated registration and education program leads naturally to things like suppressing powers or (probably moreoften in Marvel-land) manpower for someone's private superarmy.

Also, a what-if book is hardly a proof of concept, after all people are criticizing Marvel because they didn't like how Civil War went and think the conclusion was implausible.

Real life doesn't have superhumans, or metahumans, it has mutants (all life on Earth in fact) but not the type involving the supergene, and it has powersuits that are great for lifting things but not redirecting nuclear missiles. It does have many, many, populations subjected to registration programs. This includes (in various countries) criminals, gun-owners, foreigners, various ethnic groups, over a million sex offenders (many of which get on there for minor deeds such as the notorious teenage selfie), and (with proposals for greatly expanded reach) the mentally ill. It has controversies surrounding government spying, expanded gov't powers after 9/11 and (especially the US gov't) ues of (normal-sized) predator drones.

Marvel created its universes storyline as a commentary about our own. There are also programs in real life that control the possession and use of hi-tech military hardware and WMDs like nuclear bombs. In talking about registration in the marvel universe, though, is that the real-life analogy that really seems most on point?

[pendell]

Realistically, the only training a government could give people as diverse as Thor, Cyclops, Wolverine, and all the rest is in the arena of ethics. They can't teach you how to blow up people with your mind more effectively, but they can teach you when it is and isn't a good idea. They can also put you On Notice that any superbeing caught violating these ethics will be held accountable, which is what the Justice League et al are for.

...

I suppose they could also give lessons in teamwork, playing well with others, and basic tactics. The government can also provide intelligence and logistics support so that the superheroes can function more effectively. But mutants vary so widely in powers and abilities that no catchall education program could be at all helpful beyond very basic concepts.

Also, I think we may be wandering a field a bit -- the Mutant registration act was for mutants if I recall correctly. Check me on this ... and I'm confusing universes again ... but not all superpowered beings are mutants, and not all mutants are superpowered. Galactus, for example, isn't a mutant and neither is the Silver Surfer. Picking up a helmet doesn't make you a mutant, because by that logic ANY human who has two hands and a head is a potential mutant.

So in certain respects mutant registration isn't helpful because it only detects a fraction of the superpowered threats facing society. Victor Von Doom is a completely ordinary man and would not have to register, but I-can-change-my-hair-color boy does.

So registration, perhaps, should be on the basis of demonstrated power, not on the basis of genetics. This would require someone like Iron Man to register, while blue-hair-boy could get on with his normal life.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[stcfg]

First of all "possible" does not prove your positions regarding registration, which you presented as a sort of one-size fits all-metahuman worlds solution based on essential truths about metahumans, humans, and government (and its proper role of things), not to mention more essential truths about illness and doctors and so on.

I responded by somewhat overstating things in a similarly overly essential manner to suggest situations which I think are closer to what certain items I have read or seen is telling me how the scenario would actually play out. The aside about genocide being the only way to ensure absolute safety I tried to insert in a way that was clear it was an aside about genocide, not a prediction. There are sentences in which I make predictions about a program, I think a government-mandated registration and education program leads naturally to things like suppressing powers or (probably moreoften in Marvel-land) manpower for someone's private superarmy.

Also, a what-if book is hardly a proof of concept, after all people are criticizing Marvel because they didn't like how Civil War went and think the conclusion was implausible.

Real life doesn't have superhumans, or metahumans, it has mutants (all life on Earth in fact) but not the type involving the supergene, and it has powersuits that are great for lifting things but not redirecting nuclear missiles. It does have many, many, populations subjected to registration programs. This includes (in various countries) criminals, gun-owners, foreigners, various ethnic groups, over a million sex offenders (many of which get on there for minor deeds such as the notorious teenage selfie), and (with proposals for greatly expanded reach) the mentally ill. It has controversies surrounding government spying, expanded gov't powers after 9/11 and (especially the US gov't) ues of (normal-sized) predator drones.

Marvel created its universes storyline as a commentary about our own. There are also programs in real life that control the possession and use of hi-tech military hardware and WMDs like nuclear bombs. In talking about registration in the marvel universe, though, is that the real-life analogy that really seems most on point?

I tried to present my solution as what reasonable legislation would look like in a world with superpowers. I don't think equipment or knowledge based "powers" fall under the same category or legislative authority as other superpowers.

I think without government-mandated registration and education programs, it would lead to lynch mobs, multiple Stamford incidents as well as private superarmies. I don't think relying on the private sector to stop any of that is a good idea.

I think the criticism is less from implausibility and more from every single character stupidly acting in a way to maximize the conflict and make things worse. The registration storylines try to shoehorn metahumans as a stand in for groups that are completely different. This leads to a terrible commentary on any real world issue. It like writing a story about a surgeon botching a surgery and then claiming all surgery is evil. In a world where no one is smart enough to perform surgery, it might be evil, but its still a poor commentary on the issue.

[Reddish Mage]

I think without government-mandated registration and education programs, it would lead to lynch mobs, multiple Stamford incidents as well as private superarmies. I don't think relying on the private sector to stop any of that is a good idea.

I mentioned at the bottom of the last page that there are plenty of worlds where "metahumans" live a more or less in peace with the populace. Sometimes they live completely normalized existences, for example in the world of Avatar: The Last Airbender and its sequel Legend of Korra (despite a brief flare up of anti-bender sentiments in season 1). Most fantasy worlds the idea of government control doesn't make much sense: what is a government in the Forgotten Realms going to do. Baseline D&D wizards are mostly self-regulating and living on the outskirts of society, priests control their own, and other specials do likewise.

In Star Wars only the empire has a mandatory program in place for force sensitives. In Star Trek Wesley Crusher, Betazoids, half-Vulcans and whatever, are just accepted as part of the grand mix of the universe. Really, Marvel is quite peculiar in their unique take on people with fantastic powers.

Generally speaking, government registration programs only appears in stories alongside very strong connotations of government control (Babylon 5 and telepaths) and usually with the implication that such governments have a lot more than a whiff of fascism.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Worth noting that the world of Avatar is, in fact, a world run by the metahumans. Elemental power = political power. Take a moment and think of how many non-benders are in positions of power. It's not like that was the plot of the first season of Korra or anything. (Also remember that bloodbending has, in fact, been outlawed. Though the legal process for prosecuting a bloodbender is pretty slim; you can only illegalize the act of bloodbending, not being a bloodbender. Since a bloodbender can just say "But I'm just a waterbender.")

Elemental bending is also very strongly understood in that world, and when a bender grows up, they have a lot of surrounding influences who can take care of them and ensure that they don't wreck stuff. Also, it's worth noting that in the Avatar world, there don't seem to be a whole lot of regulations in terms of what sorts of force you're allowed to have on your person. Carry a sword? A-OK. It's a martialized society.

Comics society differs from that in several respects. For one, having potential lethal force is a hot point of contention, but a number of societies are in favor of restricting the amount of force that a person is able to have on their person. For a second point, metahumans form the minority of humanity, and it's far more likely that you're going to run into isolated cases where a metahuman acquired their powers from an external source--and thus doesn't have a metahuman community by default. And finally, powers tend to be a lot more accidentally potent and more diverse in their scope. This creates some pretty massive problems. Of course, it's also the root of superhero vigilantism, since it takes a metahuman to beat a bad metahuman. On the flipside, that means that you're relying on the goodwill of the "hero" metahuman to stay that way.

[stcfg]

I mentioned at the bottom of the last page that there are plenty of worlds where "metahumans" live a more or less in peace with the populace. Sometimes they live completely normalized existences, for example in the world of Avatar: The Last Airbender and its sequel Legend of Korra (despite a brief flare up of anti-bender sentiments in season 1). Most fantasy worlds the idea of government control doesn't make much sense: what is a government in the Forgotten Realms going to do. Baseline D&D wizards are mostly self-regulating and living on the outskirts of society, priests control their own, and other specials do likewise.

In Star Wars only the empire has a mandatory program in place for force sensitives. In Star Trek Wesley Crusher, Betazoids, half-Vulcans and whatever, are just accepted as part of the grand mix of the universe. Really, Marvel is quite peculiar in their unique take on people with fantastic powers.

Generally speaking, government registration programs only appears in stories alongside very strong connotations of government control (Babylon 5 and telepaths) and usually with the implication that such governments have a lot more than a whiff of fascism.

In all stories are you have presented, "metahuman" status only applies to those with mostly beneficial powers. Other than maybe one scene with Katara being mad, I don't really remember anyone losing control of their powers in Avatar or in any of the other shows. Or anyone being terribly debilitated by them either. Mandated education and registration is not really necessary because the consequences aren't nearly as terrible.

Marvel superpowers, however, are not the same. People can't control them as easily and they're not always beneficial. See hulk's powers, man-spider incident, rogue's powers, the Onslaught saga can be described as Professor X's powers getting the better of him. There is also the exploding man from Heroes.

In such a setting where people might accidentally explode, or turn into rage monster, I think mandatory education and medical examination is entirely reasonable. Its about the right balance between individual rights and public safety. If its not mandatory, I think public safety is decreased for a few peoples' minor convenience and I don't think that trade-off is worthwhile. Similarly, death camps or life imprisonment of metahumans for being metahuman is curtailing individual rights too far for close to no improvement in safety.

[Scowling Dragon]

Again we are dealing with halfway insane systems of nonsense.

In Marvel the Government could have just implemented public magic lessons and then we would all be on the same playing field.

Super Science is expensive, not as so in magic. And there have been "Magical Civilizations in Marvel".

Or if we wanna be realistic just teach magic to the Military and then make Vigilantism illegal like it usually is, and require a permit.

There a solution.

[Kitten Champion]

1). Most fantasy worlds the idea of government control doesn't make much sense: what is a government in the Forgotten Realms going to do. Baseline D&D wizards are mostly self-regulating and living on the outskirts of society, priests control their own, and other specials do likewise.

Well, yeah, you can't really have a generic fantasy setting where your PC class is constrained by making them accountable to a byzantine bureaucracy. Kind of ruins the wonder and spirit of adventure if they have to spend fictional time filling out paperwork for every fireball they unleash.

In Star Wars only the empire has a mandatory program in place for force sensitives.

I seem to recall there being a monastic order of knights Templar that took very young children with psychic abilities and trained them with their order's martial skills and all-consuming theology. That were, in fact, the formal peacekeepers for an interstellar alliance of populated worlds that spanned an entire galaxy... somewhere in there.

Or did these toddlers give their informed consent first?

In Star Trek Wesley Crusher, Betazoids, half-Vulcans and whatever, are just accepted as part of the grand mix of the universe.

The "grand mix" of homogeneous smugly superior left-wing ideologue *******s? That are so confident in their place in the universe their military doesn't even build warships and seems to be ashamed of militarism of any kind, where Earth is a utopia and every evil is in their past because they say it is...

Unless of course you're genetically modified, where you're barred from Star Fleet and possibly imprisoned.

[Jayngfet]

Again we are dealing with halfway insane systems of nonsense.

In Marvel the Government could have just implemented public magic lessons and then we would all be on the same playing field.

Super Science is expensive, not as so in magic. And there have been "Magical Civilizations in Marvel".

Or if we wanna be realistic just teach magic to the Military and then make Vigilantism illegal like it usually is, and require a permit.

There a solution.

They tried to mass produce super powers. Of course then red she-hulk got pissy and blew the whole thing up, because screw levelling the playing field apparently. Using superpowers for gain is wrong, unless that specific character wants an excuse to go on a drunken bender and break ****.

It's still a moot point because anyone with a bit of super soldier blood and a matching type subject can just make more super soldiers, at least going by Patriots origins, so there's not really anything stopping the government from boosting everyone already to a decent minimum.

Well, yeah, you can't really have a generic fantasy setting where your PC class is constrained by making them accountable to a byzantine bureaucracy. Kind of ruins the wonder and spirit of adventure if they have to spend fictional time filling out paperwork for every fireball they unleash.

Paladins, monks, and clerics tend to belong to rather clear and rigid hierarchies all the time, for obvious reasons. Knights in service to a lord aren't much better and other militaristic classes like scout have to report back to someone eventually. The rest often wind up dealing with guilds and their own byzantine organizational structure and monetary rules. It's skipped over for conveniences sake but quite often a character really does have to just fill out paperwork and write reports. Because in real time your mage spends less than 20 minutes a day in combat and the rest prepping for it or handling the aftermath.

I seem to recall there being a monastic order of knights Templar that took very young children with psychic abilities and trained them with their order's martial skills and all-consuming theology. That were, in fact, the formal peacekeepers for an interstellar alliance of populated worlds that spanned an entire galaxy... somewhere in there.

Or did these toddlers give their informed consent first?

This is being a bit anal-rentive but the actual historical Knights Templar did things in the opposite way: You weren't even a candidate unless you'd lived a good while as a knight and often had children who were grown and capable of handling themselves and affairs without you. Mainly because experienced adults can make better judgement calls and practice due discretion with better results, and given the amounts of money and responsibility dealt with those were a must. So basically they lasted as long as they did because they did the opposite of what the Jedi did.

[Kitten Champion]

Paladins, monks, and clerics tend to belong to rather clear and rigid hierarchies all the time, for obvious reasons. Knights in service to a lord aren't much better and other militaristic classes like scout have to report back to someone eventually. The rest often wind up dealing with guilds and their own byzantine organizational structure and monetary rules. It's skipped over for conveniences sake but quite often a character really does have to just fill out paperwork and write reports. Because in real time your mage spends less than 20 minutes a day in combat and the rest prepping for it or handling the aftermath.

Sure, but you can totally ignore them and still play in the setting as is - they're options in a toolbox for players and GMs nothing more. As opposed to something like Cthulhutech where most everyone participating in the meta-plot's war is part of the same global military structure.

[Reddish Mage]

I seem to recall there being a monastic order of knights Templar that took very young children with psychic abilities and trained them with their order's martial skills and all-consuming theology. That were, in fact, the formal peacekeepers for an interstellar alliance of populated worlds that spanned an entire galaxy... somewhere in there.

Or did these toddlers give their informed consent first?

The only example we see is Anakin and Qui Gon asks both Anakin and his mother before taking him. The Jedi ask the parents for permission. In the expanded universe there are communities force sensitives ("witches" etc) throughout the galaxy and the Jedi left and, after the fall of the Empire, continue to leave those communities alone.

Worth noting that the world of Avatar is, in fact, a world run by the metahumans. Elemental power = political power. Take a moment and think of how many non-benders are in positions of power. It's not like that was the plot of the first season of Korra or anything.

In ATLA, the Earth King of Ba Sing Se, the greatest power outside the Fire Nation, was a non-bender. Yes he was being manipulated and didn't actually rule until ATLA was over, but it was clear he was the legitimate ruler and he was not a bender. Also, the southern water tribe was lead by Sokka's father, a non-bender. Later, Sokka was on the council of Republic City, and he was a non-bender. Also, I don't recall the northern water tribe's Royal Family in ATLA showing any bending ability.

There is no evidence of any systematic attempt by benders to institutionalize bender power. The existence of Royalty itself runs against that idea, because we know bending is not a strict genetic inheritance (even a pair of identical twins has one earthbender and one non-bender). We see that the Earth Queen was also a non-bender as was Prince Wu (and no one ever actually mentioned this fact about either).

Don't buy Amon's (the first seasons villain) bull****, there is no "bender establishment," there never was, and after Season 1 we never hear those words again.

Marvel superpowers, however, are not the same. People can't control them as easily and they're not always beneficial. See hulk's powers, man-spider incident, rogue's powers, the Onslaught saga can be described as Professor X's powers getting the better of him. There is also the exploding man from Heroes.

In such a setting where people might accidentally explode, or turn into rage monster, I think mandatory education and medical examination is entirely reasonable. Its about the right balance between individual rights and public safety. If its not mandatory, I think public safety is decreased for a few peoples' minor convenience and I don't think that trade-off is worthwhile.

Recall this is a setting in which superpowered vigilantes have spent decades keeping the peace and saving people from everyday accidents. Where the government has a history of decades of mostly playing the villain, and where people's fears have often been misdirected.

What's more, the very worse fears of government spying, about registration, and about government overreach has already been realized in one storyline or another. Winter Soldier's Captain America makes a very strong point that any such program of data collection would end up bad guys hands. After Civil War there's a storyline about the Skrull infiltration, followed by Norman Osborn becoming the guy in charge of global security.

The only one's capable of handling the mutants are other mutants. Professor X does that job magnificently and I doubt anything has improved after Civil War. There's a reason Reed Richards and Henry Pym won't deal with the government, and Tony Stark saves the best tech for only his own personal use. Magicians are also the best at teach other magicians and keeping other magicians under control. While the superpowered of the Marvel universe may have alien blood running in their veins, or the results of scientific experimentation, or wield high tech, magic, mutation, or just be hyper-intelligent animals or something, one of the historical constants have been of all these groups that they largely dislike operating in the open and under government control.

Suddenly, after decades of heavy independent metahuman activity, you think the government can just asserts itself as the one true metahuman authority, insist it oversee metahuman education and care, and use such a system to strengthen their laws that have traditionally been less than fully enforceable. You think the government is fully capable of running such a system competently when they've been incompetent in every way in the past, and you expect metahumans to just give in like that without a fight?

Registration is not, and cannot be, anything except a declaration of war against the independent legions of metahuman-kind, and war is the inevitable outcome of such a program.

[Frozen_Feet]

If Metaumans who have commited no crimes are forced to registewr, just as criminals are, and are treated as criminals if they don't, even if they didn't even know they were meta humans, then it is both bigotted and facist.

"Bigotry" means unfair prejudice.

When the same genetic trait can give you blue skin or the power to kill people with your mind, there's a damn good reason to check which one it is. It's not unfair, and not bigoted.

That's point one.

Point two is that you're still perpetually myopic about the possibility of how registers are used, or even can be used. Having a metahuman record still doesn't need to have the same implications as a criminal record. Just like having details of your near-sightedness in the national health records doesn't mean you're going to be put to a gas chamber for it.

The only one's capable of handling the mutants are other mutants.

Yeah, and the only ones capable of judging nobles are other nobles, the only capable of judging soldiers are other soldiers, the only ones capable of judging priests are other priests...

Registration is not, and cannot be, anything except a declaration of war against the independent legions of metahuman-kind, and war is the inevitable outcome of such a program.

Registeration is not, and cannot be anything except a declaration of war against the independent legions of doctors, and war is he inevitable outcome of such a program.

Replace "doctors" with registered associations, corporate businesses, weapons manufacturers, gun owners, drivers, cars, medicines, pets, livestock, anything really where registeration is or has at one point been mandatory under the threat of fines and imprisonment. The last few categories being objects or non-humans really should tip you off that your rhetoric is seriously off-target.

[Forum Explorer]

What is in real life? In real life there aren't superhumans. Real life has real governments that would react to the sudden revelation of superhumans in different ways depending on the numbers, origins, and history of these superhumans. Also, often times new metahumans go through a period where they cannot fully control their powers or perhaps are not fully aware of them or the fact they ares using them. If you make it illegal, aren't you potentially making quite a lot of the Marvel heroes criminals well before they learn to control their powers?

Also note: "superpower" is very vague and doesn't differentiate between laser eyes, empathy, or the ability to see into the infrared and ultraviolet spectrum.



I don't know about that. The only thing that makes a metahuman crime is different is it is done by a metahuman, right? That is what you are talking about right and not about the question of whether using a superpower to commit a crime should make the crime more serious?

In and of itself, the prospect of having an unscrupulous telepath or shapeshifter around is far more scary then having an unscrupulous mundane. However, I cannot say one way or another about how to handle this sort of thing in the abstract, because I don't see how we can talk about metahumans as if they are our neighbors, brothers, sisters, parents, children and I would likely run into one on my morning jog. They exist only in an alternative universe, and they cannot be separated from the circumstances in that universe including such details as numbers, origins, history and past treatment.

Even in the one abstract detail I gave above, whether or not I would be scared just thinking about this theoretical unscrupulous person would heavily depend on how good a telepath or a shapeshifter they were, whether they could really control their power, and whether they were adapt at using it practically.

The only example we see is Anakin and Qui Gon asks both Anakin and his mother before taking him. The Jedi ask the parents for permission. In the expanded universe there are communities force sensitives ("witches" etc) throughout the galaxy and the Jedi left and, after the fall of the Empire, continue to leave those communities alone.



In ATLA, the Earth King of Ba Sing Se, the greatest power outside the Fire Nation, was a non-bender. Yes he was being manipulated and didn't actually rule until ATLA was over, but it was clear he was the legitimate ruler and he was not a bender. Also, the southern water tribe was lead by Sokka's father, a non-bender. Later, Sokka was on the council of Republic City, and he was a non-bender. Also, I don't recall the northern water tribe's Royal Family in ATLA showing any bending ability.

There is no evidence of any systematic attempt by benders to institutionalize bender power. The existence of Royalty itself runs against that idea, because we know bending is not a strict genetic inheritance (even a pair of identical twins has one earthbender and one non-bender). We see that the Earth Queen was also a non-bender as was Prince Wu (and no one ever actually mentioned this fact about either).

Don't buy Amon's (the first seasons villain) bull****, there is no "bender establishment," there never was, and after Season 1 we never hear those words again.




Recall this is a setting in which superpowered vigilantes have spent decades keeping the peace and saving people from everyday accidents. Where the government has a history of decades of mostly playing the villain, and where people's fears have often been misdirected.

What's more, the very worse fears of government spying, about registration, and about government overreach has already been realized in one storyline or another. Winter Soldier's Captain America makes a very strong point that any such program of data collection would end up bad guys hands. After Civil War there's a storyline about the Skrull infiltration, followed by Norman Osborn becoming the guy in charge of global security.

The only one's capable of handling the mutants are other mutants. Professor X does that job magnificently and I doubt anything has improved after Civil War. There's a reason Reed Richards and Henry Pym won't deal with the government, and Tony Stark saves the best tech for only his own personal use. Magicians are also the best at teach other magicians and keeping other magicians under control. While the superpowered of the Marvel universe may have alien blood running in their veins, or the results of scientific experimentation, or wield high tech, magic, mutation, or just be hyper-intelligent animals or something, one of the historical constants have been of all these groups that they largely dislike operating in the open and under government control.

Suddenly, after decades of heavy independent metahuman activity, you think the government can just asserts itself as the one true metahuman authority, insist it oversee metahuman education and care, and use such a system to strengthen their laws that have traditionally been less than fully enforceable. You think the government is fully capable of running such a system competently when they've been incompetent in every way in the past, and you expect metahumans to just give in like that without a fight?

Registration is not, and cannot be, anything except a declaration of war against the independent legions of metahuman-kind, and war is the inevitable outcome of such a program.

I said it once, and I'll say it again, Marvel is not a realistic or good example of what would happen if people had superpowers. Within a few years (depending on how many people are getting powers at once), the government would be trying to implement a program to formalize metahumans within the legal system. Marvel had over 60 years before they tried the Registration Act.

Again, Worm does this so much better. They set up official superhero teams, and put in legislation very quickly, because they have the realization that yes there is going to be more and more paranormals in the future and we need an infrastructure in place to handle them. (Including A and S class designations, for people whose powers are out of control and dangerous to the public)

They even have an actual inescapable superprison (from the inside anyways) and even have kill orders for villains who are the worst of worst.

And yes, the system does end up being corrupt. But it's (mostly) a mundane sort of corruption where high up officials abuse their power, putting their own private concerns over the public good and a sort of racism between paranormals and normal humans. They even have their database stolen, but having foreseen the possibility, they simply didn't have the secret identities of their employees put into the system.

[stcfg]

Marvel is a terrible place to get your morality tales. They have a lesson of "Metahuman registration is bad because racism/bigotry/fascism/government overreach". But since some metahumans are considered metahuman because they own and operate WMDs, by transitivity their lesson becomes "WMD owner registration is bad because racism/bigotry/fascism/government overreach". I think that lesson is really messed up.

The fact they survived this long is because of storytelling tropes instead of having reasonable methods of law enforcement.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

"Bigotry" means unfair prejudice.

When the same genetic trait can give you blue skin or the power to kill people with your mind, there's a damn good reason to check which one it is. It's not unfair, and not bigoted.

My favorite take on it

[GAZ]

For the people claiming that establishing a registry of super powered individuals is somehow akin to declaring a race war, please consider that the alternative is a witch hunt.

Metahumans dangerous to themselves and others will continue to exist and to do harm. People, perhaps even including other secret metahumans, will go after them. Uneducated metahumans and falsely accused baseline humans will die. Maybe a mob gets them, maybe it''s a trigger happy cop, maybe it's a prejudiced jury and a hangin' judge. But they will die. A lot. We saw it happen more than once in any version of X-men. Didn't even the Batman, the very best among us, set up Brother Eye?

Personally, I'd rather have registration. Just something more akin to a health record, license/registration/proof of insurance, and/or a firearms registry than the criminal record/yellow star some people seem to be imaging. No reason not to have a clear system that encourages the flow of information both ways, and thus encourage understanding.

[Reddish Mage]

Just to note I was responding to someone with a mandatory registration policy. That was and would be fought by war. This voluntary stuff would most likely be fought by a boycott.

The idea of comparing mutants to owners of WMDs or practicing medical practitioners just doesn't fly. It isn't the way they've been portrayed in marvel, and the latter is about as far away from a relevant analogy as you can go. Maybe it works for Ironman or Doctor Strange (who are already experts in using their powers) but not for someone who is born with it.

A theoretic metahuman emergence in the real world could be dealt with in a variety of ways. IF its small enough to deal with people on an individual basis it would be. IF you get something like a mutant explosion (the total Marvel package, not something with something resembling scientific grounded, more plausible, "real world" version), I think what we've been talking about would be the various talking points and proposed approaches. The approach I laid out, and the dire predictions of what could happen if in a case of government overreach, would be the way a consistent civil libertarian would respond. They would be in favor of keeping medical records private and education in the hands of parents and guardians.

I don't see the point of talking about metahumans in real life though. The category doesn't even make sense to apply. An approach to dealing with an ancient society of occultists doesn't apply to the next stage of human evolution, nor to the results of military experimentation, nor to brilliant scientists wearing tight clothing, or to ridiculously skilled martial artists (ok maybe you'd deal with a group of martial artists the same way, depending).

[stcfg]

The idea of comparing mutants to owners of WMDs or practicing medical practitioners just doesn't fly. It isn't the way they've been portrayed in marvel, and the latter is about as far away from a relevant analogy as you can go. Maybe it works for Ironman or Doctor Strange (who are already experts in using their powers) but not for someone who is born with it.

Except they are portrayed as WMDs in marvel. Ironman has nuclear power battle suits. Jean Grey has literally destroyed an entire world once, and has lost control of her powers before. They just don't pursue those storylines and go with a persecuted minority storyline because heroes are scrappy underdogs instead of walking WMDs.

If registration is not mandatory, then some ornery metahumans are going to hurt or kill themselves and others because they couldn't be bothered to go get a check-up and their powers flare up out of control. People have a right to not get killed because of other peoples' incredibly poor decisions.

I can see a war starting if "metahumans" are so self-absorbed that they put their right to refuse possibly life saving medical treatment and right to refuse to learn how to control their powers above the safety of others. But since they are considered "heroes", I would expect better of them.

[SowZ]

So with the announcement of all marvel's new films in the next few years I got to thinking about the Civil War. It all started because of the Superhero Registration Act where super powered heroes would act under the authority of the government and be regulated as a government institution.

Ignoring absolutely everything else about every past or future portrayal of this theme I think that its a really good idea. With this sort of thing I think a lot of people rush to the ideas of discrimination and racism but this isn't about hating them because they're different, metahumans don't pose some ambiguous threat to the public, they are a clear and present danger. I'm not saying that they aren't human (excepting of course the ones that aren't actually human) the opposite in fact, BECAUSE they are human they pose a threat to the public.

Think for a moment the percentage of the population composed of thieves, rapists, murderers and other criminals, this percentage of the population carries over into the superhero population. Imagine someone like Gary Ridgeway aka the Green River Killer. Over more than a decade he killed 71 women and was only caught because of DNA evidence that he left from a time before DNA evidence was a well known factor in catching criminals. Imagine someone like that with superpowers. It doesn't even have to be a serial killer, think about how many random public shootings there have been in the last few years. Imagine those guys had some crazy abilities like pyrokenisis or telepathy.

If the Humans came to the table knowing that his sort of legilation is frightening and keeping in mind that while some metahumans pose a threat most are just trying to live a normal life and the Metahumans came to the table acknowledging the potential danger if someone with enough power went crazy or abused it a compromise could be hashed out that would benefit everyone. Maybe a confidential Superhero Registration where the super heroes identities would be something akin to the Witness Protection Program where it was known only to a privileged few.

I see no evidence that the government would use the power to regulate and manage all superhuman entities responsibly. No one group should have that power. Super hero teams being decentralized is a much healthier reality. Not to mention all a villain has to do is get control of whoever heads the organization and he or she can manipulate all super heroes.

Except they are portrayed as WMDs in marvel. Ironman has nuclear power battle suits. Jean Grey has literally destroyed an entire world once, and has lost control of her powers before. They just don't pursue those storylines and go with a persecuted minority storyline because heroes are scrappy underdogs instead of walking WMDs.

If registration is not mandatory, then some ornery metahumans are going to hurt or kill themselves and others because they couldn't be bothered to go get a check-up and their powers flare up out of control. People have a right to not get killed because of other peoples' incredibly poor decisions.

I can see a war starting if "metahumans" are so self-absorbed that they put their right to refuse possibly life saving medical treatment and right to refuse to learn how to control their powers above the safety of others. But since they are considered "heroes", I would expect better of them.

There seems to me no reason to believe that registering meta-humans and saying they must serve the government in order to practice their heroics will prevent such occurrences. The super heroes are generally the authorities on their own powers. If Tony Stark cannot contain the power of the arc reactor, no one on Earth could. Jean Grey was possessed by an ancient entity of cosmic power. A million regulations would not have prevented that tragedy.

[Frozen_Feet]

Maybe it works for Ironman or Doctor Strange (who are already experts in using their powers) but not for someone who is born with it.

Fixating on "but they were born with it!" doesn't really make the difference you think it does. What matters is that they have it, not how they got it.

The reason is simple: the very concept of human rights and human equality presupposes all people are, in fact, capable of certain things and share a common ground. Metahumans, due to by definition being something above, below or beyond human, defy these principles. If we want to hang to the precepts of equality, then it means one thing: metahumans are not entitled to their powers. If there's no means to bring them down to normal human baseline, then it means they'll have to earn the rights to have and use abilities beyond human ken, by proving they are sufficiently stable and trustworthy to do it.

[Ravian]

Fixating on "but they were born with it!" doesn't really make the difference you think it does. What matters is that they have it, not how they got it.

The reason is simple: the very concept of human rights and human equality presupposes all people are, in fact, capable of certain things and share a common ground. Metahumans, due to by definition being something above, below or beyond human, defy these principles. If we want to hang to the precepts of equality, then it means one thing: metahumans are not entitled to their powers. If there's no means to bring them down to normal human baseline, then it means they'll have to earn the rights to have and use abilities beyond human ken, by proving they are sufficiently stable and trustworthy to do it.

Think you're getting into dangerous territory with that sort of enforced equality thing. I'm reminded of a short story where, in order to ensure that truly everyone was equal, a government imposed numerous handicaps to supress people's natural gifts. (The intelligent received regular radio transmissions full of loud disconcerting noises to ruin any sort of concentration and forming thoughts, the physically adept carried weights, the attractive wore masks.)

It's gets very much like racism when you start to say: We can't treat these people like humans because they have different skills and abilities than us and that's scary.

Once again I bring up whether everyone at genius level IQ should be rounded up because of the possibility that they could create dangers to society through their knowledge. To quote Captain America II (or at least the trailers, since I still haven't gotten around to seeing it) Shouldn't the punishment come after the crime?

[Kitten Champion]

I see no evidence that the government would use the power to regulate and manage all superhuman entities responsibly. No one group should have that power. Super hero teams being decentralized is a much healthier reality. Not to mention all a villain has to do is get control of whoever heads the organization and he or she can manipulate all super heroes.

But, that's not really different than reality.

The government controls the police and military, and at least some states have the power to destroy all life on Earth several times over. Even without such potency at their command, it's a basic foundation of civilized society and the concept of a state that they have the monopoly on violence. This power is checked through layers and layers and layers of oversight which lead ultimately to serving and being accountable to the law and citizenry, which is why you can trust and respect their authority... it stems in part from you for your sake rather than on the whims of some tyrant.

Saying "but what if they have Superman too?" doesn't really change anything, states would have the same mandate and responsibilities. You're starting with the assumption that it's superheroes at stake, who are implicitly of a certain moral character and do noble things selflessly, but people aren't by default heroes or villains and all the standards of the genre do not automatically apply simply because someone can defy physics all of sudden.

I for one don't trust local private militias to secure my liberty or some informal posse rounded up from wherever to hunt for supposed criminals, since neither are accountable to me or the legal standards I'd require from law enforcement and military personnel - decentralized or otherwise.

There seems to me no reason to believe that registering meta-humans and saying they must serve the government in order to practice their heroics will prevent such occurrences. The super heroes are generally the authorities on their own powers. If Tony Stark cannot contain the power of the arc reactor, no one on Earth could. Jean Grey was possessed by an ancient entity of cosmic power. A million regulations would not have prevented that tragedy.

But... well, nuclear plants are the most highly regulated and thoroughly maintained institutions on the planet, and yet things like Fukushima Daiichi are still going to happen in real life. That doesn't mean we scrap the laws and simply put Chuck in charge because he's an awfully nice person, because that would be suicidal. I don't know what an arc reactor entails exactly, but no, I wouldn't trust an individual with such technology even if he invented it and fused it to his chest.

Nothing may have stopped Jean from slaughtering all those sentient beings, but it wasn't like the people surrounding her were impartial and acting rationally about her condition -- and nor should they be, they're mostly just kids and young adults living in a rather incestuously small community.

In either case, a modern government which has far more resources to apply to any given problem than any individual and certainly more legal support and accountability could potentially have dealt and would deal with a whole legion of issues which Marvel comic characters face. Actually, despite numerous flaws with the Ultimate universe in many areas, the effective backing of SHIELD for the heroes generally made the Ultimates' lives considerably easier and helped them face numerous planet-ending crises. They even carried this into the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon, where among other things they gave Peter Parker training, allies, medical and scientific support, advanced technology premised on his own designs, a legal body to report to, and wall-to-wall protection for his aunt.

Once again I bring up whether everyone at genius level IQ should be rounded up because of the possibility that they could create dangers to society through their knowledge. To quote Captain America II (or at least the trailers, since I still haven't gotten around to seeing it) Shouldn't the punishment come after the crime?

Registering people doesn't equate to rounding them up. In much the same way registering your firearm doesn't mean you have to turn it in to authorities.

Simply being intelligent doesn't provide an existential threat to law enforcement or civil society, not in and of itself. Some of these fictional abilities can and do, and knowing if they exists and how they work seems to make more sense than not, both for society and the person using them. Geniuses are rare granted but still well within the range of the expected human experience.

Also, to my knowledge most genius intellects are identified during early schooling since a one-size-fits-all approach to education is as inconvenient for those who learn at an accelerated pace as it is for those with learning disabilities. Schools have gifted programs for a reason.

At any rate, rather unfortunately, we don't see Stephen Hawking fighting crime as a masked vigilante. If he were inclined to do so I would still have him go through training and the like and then ultimately be accountable to the law.

[Frozen_Feet]

Think you're getting into dangerous territory with that sort of enforced equality thing. I'm reminded of a short story where, in order to ensure that truly everyone was equal, a government imposed numerous handicaps to supress people's natural gifts. (The intelligent received regular radio transmissions full of loud disconcerting noises to ruin any sort of concentration and forming thoughts, the physically adept carried weights, the attractive wore masks.)

It's gets very much like racism when you start to say: We can't treat these people like humans because they have different skills and abilities than us and that's scary.

Equality before law doesn't work like you think it does and does not have the implications you suggest. It doesn't mean everyone is forced to act or be the same regardless of conditions. It means everyone is held to the same standards. We already treat people with different skills and abilities differently. The difference between that and whatever "-ism" you deign to name is that when we do treat people differently, there is (and has to be) a specific, provable reason to do so. EDIT: The man with a gun grafted to their arm is actually a perfect example. Under the law, all firearms need to be registered, and you aren't allowed to carry them in public without permission. These are the rules, and it is absolutely irrelevant so far that the person didn't consent to the operation, doesn't want the gun, or swears he will never use the gun. Because it is still a gun, and all normal considerations for one apply. The person would still have obligation to declare and visit a police station so that the gun can either be disarmed or deactivated, or so he can be trained and be given license to carry it around. Failure to do so would lead to all normal sanctions for carrying unlicensed firearms. This principle can be extended to all metahuman abilities which serve as weapons or weapon-analogues. If ordinary humans are not allowed to carry weapons without permit, why should metahumans be allowed to do so simply by the virtue of having born with them?

A licensed doctor, soldier, police officer, welder, handyman, whatever, has a set of privileges related to their profession. To balance those privileges, they also have an extra set of obligations, having to adhere to a specific work ethic, rules and regulations. On the flipside, people with handicaps are given some extra benefits and occasionally required to go through treatment. Someone who is badly nearsighted is given eyeglasses and needs to wear them while driving. Someone with epilepsy has to carry a tag telling others of their malady. Special parking slots are reserved for people with motive disabilities. Someone with life-threatening allergy is given an adrenaline pen. So on and so forth.

Once again I bring up whether everyone at genius level IQ should be rounded up because of the possibility that they could create dangers to society through their knowledge. To quote Captain America II (or at least the trailers, since I still haven't gotten around to seeing it) Shouldn't the punishment come after the crime?

Where I live, mandatory schooling is a thing. IQ, specifically, isn't tested, but other cognitive and knowledge abilities are and an effort is made so people with specific gifts, handicaps and interests are directed to curriculums that'd be helpful to them. Our system is often criticized for not having enough options for those who are "positively gifted", that is, do better than normal for their age.

Mandatory armed or civil service for men (but not for women, for some reason. Lalala~), is also a thing, meaning that mandatory medical and psychological examination is also a thing. You can decline from participating in any of those, but it means you get to spend your service time in prison. Hilariously enough, this doesn't net you a criminal record, nor can this fact be used against you in your future life save for a very small number of military occupations. (Why would anyone apply for military career after declining conscription is a question I have no answer to.) Actually going through those tests means that yes, the Finnish government will know your basic cognitive ability, and can within some limits order you to serve in a leadership position within its defence forces.

If you want to equate school with prison, special education with punishment and conscription with slavery, that is your prerogative.

[Reddish Mage]

Saying "but what if they have Superman too?" doesn't really change anything, states would have the same mandate and responsibilities. You're starting with the assumption that it's superheroes at stake, who are implicitly of a certain moral character and do noble things selflessly, but people aren't by default heroes or villains and all the standards of the genre do not automatically apply simply because someone can defy physics all of sudden..

Yes, as I mentioned in "reality" metahuman registration doesn't ever make sense because the category is so ill-defined as to be nonsensical. If you want to start from reality, you should propose a particular scenario with people acquiring powers in some particular manner, and also stipulate their capabilities, and then you can explain why the government needs to control them.

Talking vaguely of metahumans (a socially constructed pseudo-ethnic category) and then making false analogies to professional licensure, medical conditions, or weapon control, is just applying exactly the sort of racism implied in the X-men movies and such.

If you want to equate school with prison, special education with punishment and conscription with slavery, that is your prerogative.

Registration is called registration because metahumans and their powers become publicly available and under the control of the government. Mandatory schooling doesn't mean children are forced to attend government schools. Conscription is forced labor, and when its targeted at a specific ethnicity it is a brutal, racist means of suppressing their individuality. The only example I know of is the Russian Cantonist conscription of Jews in the 19th century.

Btw, like the Jewish boys, its obvious your program of conscripting metahumans start young (with those mandatory education programs, aka, a military preparedness programs) and continues a very long time into adulthood. The Cantonists only conscripted some of the boys between 12-25, this program starts younger, seeks to grab everyone, and there is no talk about a time limit to the service. So I think it is far worse than the Russian Cantonist program.

That's before I even begin about the meaning of the use of conscripts for police service: you just militarized the police.

[pendell]

Conscription is forced labor, and when its targeted at a specific ethnicity it is a brutal, racist means of suppressing their individuality.

I contend that Mutants are not an ethnic group; Mutations can crop up among Jews, Russians, Americans, Africans, Chinese, or any other group, so racial/social discrimination is not in view.

This is more like identifying all citizens capable of military service so they may be called up in the event of national emergency. A draft, in other words, which is something most societies do.

Could this mean that registration CAN'T turn into a method of singling out 'different' people for persecution, torture, and all the rest of it? Yes, that's possible. But I don't believe the ethnic/race/social objection is a valid one.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Metahuman1]

Of course all powers are different and require different levels of scrutiny. Horseface person should probably have the same level as spiderman to prevent a man-spider or man-horse incident.

Enphasis Mine. You just proved my point. You want a guy who's got a different head shape and that's it to be treated as a guy who can dead lift 10 tones of weight over his head with his bare hands, has super genius level intellect, precognition and reflexes fast enough to dodge bullets, among other ability's.



Forzen: You know, from where I'm sitting, it almost seems to me that the problem is that you and people who are in favor of registration in general don't seem to think it's POSSIBLE for the government to do Illegal things or abuse there power. Which I find an utterly preposterous position to take since they have done so so many times through out history I don't think one person can even document all the times it's happen and they've been caught and busted for it, let alone the times they got away with it somehow.





pendell: By that logic, LGBT citizens could be made to register and it would be A-ok. I somehow don't think we'd be cool with that.



Now, real quick, this.

http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/48



This is a universe were supers are a thing. People don't really understand why they happen or the way they happen for the most part yet. Having powers is not illegal. Registering powers is ONLY required if you want to go into the Military or Law Enforcement. If you do, you go to a specific organization that works as a sort of common ground between army, national guard and FBI, and deals only with people who actively use there super powers to do things that would be illegal to do even with out the super powers. (Murder is illegal, vigilantism is illegal, robbery is illegal, if you use super powers to aid in doing these things, you will be busted. Might be treated as if you had a gun or a bomb or such, but beyond that, no different then any other crook. Apart form, at most, using extra methods to keep you contained, we don't know that last one, comics still doing a flash back of the first day to explain such things. )



THIS could work. A lot of what's being thrown around in this thread? Not so much.