Warpriest Archer (20) Mummy's Mask, build advice.

[killem2]

Hey Playground - This is a part 2 since my old thread is too old to reply to.


So I'm pretty much finished with my Zen Archer and just wanted some over all thoughts about it on a couple fronts.


Level 1, Samsaran, L/G, Warpriest

Ability Scores:
Str 16, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 20, Cha 11

Feats: Precise Shot, Weapon Focus: LongBow

Trait: Wisdom in the Flesh (Irori) [Stealth], Reactive +2 Int

Languages: Common, Samsaran, Tengu, Abyssal, Auran

Items: The only items right now, is my Longbow with 20 blunt arrows and 20 normal arrows and my monk outfit. We will be pooling our starting cash (seven of us) to buy everything else.


Weapons: Longbow, Blunt Arrows (20), Arrows (20).




Thoughts over all? I am fairly sure this will give me a well rounded access to some good killing bonuses.

[Psyren]

I would go with Cleric if you're multiclassing, you lose too much casting otherwise. You don't get 2nd-level spells until level 7 with that build, and no 3rd-level spells until level 10. It's not like you'd lose any BAB.

Also, Irori is LN - you can be within one step of him but he does not grant the Good Blessing.

[killem2]

I would go with Cleric if you're multiclassing, you lose too much casting otherwise. You don't get 2nd-level spells until level 7 with that build, and no 3rd-level spells until level 10. It's not like you'd lose any BAB.

Also, Irori is LN - you can be within one step of him but he does not grant the Good Blessing.

Ahh crap good catch, is the wisdom in the flesh thing limited to one god or is Irori just the fluffy default?

[Drackstin]

Ahh crap good catch, is the wisdom in the flesh thing limited to one god or is Irori just the fluffy default?

for you to gain mechanical benefits from a god, such as casting or traits you need to worship it, so if your taking a trait from Irori you need to worship it and use its domains or blessings.

Cleric has better casting then warpriest, but warpriest gets more feats and better damage output, also you get to cast spells as a swift action.

honestly i made a Zen archer build using only Warpriest and worshiping Erastil. it worked out quite nice, since the only thing i lost was the wis to AC, but i was able to get Wis to ranged attacks and can shoot healing spells for ranged touch at 100 feet

[killem2]

for you to gain mechanical benefits from a god, such as casting or traits you need to worship it, so if your taking a trait from Irori you need to worship it and use its domains or blessings.

Cleric has better casting then warpriest, but warpriest gets more feats and better damage output, also you get to cast spells as a swift action.

honestly i made a Zen archer build using only Warpriest and worshiping Erastil. it worked out quite nice, since the only thing i lost was the wis to AC, but i was able to get Wis to ranged attacks and can shoot healing spells for ranged touch at 100 feet

Can I ask how you make a zen archer, by just using war priest? Don't you need at least 1 class level in monk?

[Psyren]

Can I ask how you make a zen archer, by just using war priest? Don't you need at least 1 class level in monk?

Guided Hand + Erastil = Wis to attack with bows

[Drackstin]

Guided hand at level 6, also to make a Zen archer you need 3 levels of monk, you only need 1 level for flurry of blows, but that can be gained by rapid shot and multi shot. if you use all warpriest you get better casting and more feats, if you go human you get 9 feats just from the class. its something to look into.

also since you leave monk, flurry of blows never gets to be better then rapid shot, so your taking 3 levels of no casting for wis to AC, and a few feats that you will get anyway. i did the math, and all you gain from 3 levels of monk are 1 BAB to attacks only during flurry, you lose 3 levels of casting, and you gain wis to AC, but you can get more from rapid shot and multi shot, in the end you lose 1BAB and you have a useless flurry. also you can wear any armor you want so that wis to AC is not needed

[deuxhero]

I agree on guided hand (though you can't get it till 7, it's not a combat feat for some reason). If this wasn't an option, ask your GM how Sacred Fist's flurry stacks with Monk's.

[Drackstin]

its two different flurry of blows, one is only for ranged, one is for melee, the wouldn't stack and you would lose too much from taking sacred fist archetype.

[killem2]

Oh boy, now I'm really confused lol. I thought Zen Archer was a pretty respectable form of a ranged class, mostly because of the fun toys you get with zen archer and a lot of those feats you can get with out the prereqs.

Ugh I may have to go back to the drawing board then.

[ghanjrho]

Another thing to consider is that Mummy's Mask is programmed to end at 17th level.

[Psyren]

Oh boy, now I'm really confused lol. I thought Zen Archer was a pretty respectable form of a ranged class, mostly because of the fun toys you get with zen archer and a lot of those feats you can get with out the prereqs.

Ugh I may have to go back to the drawing board then.

It is - the bigger problem is that you're multiclassing, which is generally a bad idea in Pathfinder, and to compound it you're multiclassing with a 2/3 casting class, which is already behind.

So to summarize, for a divine-flavored archer I would do one of the following:

- Straight Zen Archer 20 with Qinggong
- Straight Warpriest 20 with Guided Hand
- ZA 3/Cleric 17
- Paladin 20
- Preacher Inquisitor 20
- Divine Hunter 20

[killem2]

Another thing to consider is that Mummy's Mask is programmed to end at 17th level.

Didn't realize this. Drackstin, when you say you used Warpriest only, why does worshipping Erastil factor in? Is it because of the blessings?

I guess looking it over, I really am just getting the slight bonuses from monk, and since I didnt plan on going above 3 (or 4 at the most) I'm not really getting to take a lot of broken feats anyway ahead of time. We already have a cleric in the group so I wasn't so concerned with spell casting, since in addition we also have a druid too. Lots of spell casting going on there.

I guess if I go right into warpriest, I can start right in on the Mystic Past Life shenanigans. :P

I'm still trying to process this through my head at why anyone would bother with zen archer now.

lol

EDIT: And you reply! :P thanks!

[Drackstin]

Didn't realize this. Drackstin, when you say you used Warpriest only, why does worshipping Erastil factor in? Is it because of the blessings?

I guess looking it over, I really am just getting the slight bonuses from monk, and since I didnt plan on going above 3 (or 4 at the most) I'm not really getting to take a lot of broken feats anyway ahead of time. We already have a cleric in the group so I wasn't so concerned with spell casting, since in addition we also have a druid too. Lots of spell casting going on there.

I guess if I go right into warpriest, I can start right in on the Mystic Past Life shenanigans. :P

I'm still trying to process this through my head at why anyone would bother with zen archer now.

lol

EDIT: And you reply! :P thanks!

you need to use your gods favored weapon to gain the benefit from "Guided Hand" he also has a feat called "Savior’s Arrow" that is awesome, pulse some fun traits, i like the one that lets you ignore soft cover. since you have good dex anyway the lat wis to attack doesn't hurt much, and if you can get the weapon enchantment you can get wis to damage. also remember, the warpriest can cast buffs on itself as a swift, this lets you optimize yourself for battle without wasting turns.

[killem2]

I know I can't get the wis to dmg thing because it's old paizo stuff sadly. I will look more into this later then. I thought the advantage of zen archer was the full bab when furry is on.

[Psyren]

I know I can't get the wis to dmg thing because it's old paizo stuff sadly. I will look more into this later then. I thought the advantage of zen archer was the full bab when furry is on.

Yeah but Cleric, Warpriest and Inquisitor get Divine Power (or Blessing of Fervor for the first two) to catch up with the ZA on attacks, plus they can use Rapid Shot and Manyshot. The Inquisitor also has Bane and Judgments to keep up on damage, which is ultimately the end goal, not attacks.

[Drackstin]

Also you don't get full BAB with zen. You only get it for your levels of monk so it's not really helping but for +1 BAB

[Psyren]

Also you don't get full BAB with zen. You only get it for your levels of monk so it's not really helping but for +1 BAB

I assumed he was referring to the full ZA build there, in which case you get full BAB while flurrying.

[Drackstin]

True but his build was only monk 3. Full ZA would get full BAB on flurry

[Psyren]

Yeah, if he meant his original build he isn't getting any extra BAB out of the monk levels - just an extra shot and Wis to AC/attack.

[killem2]

Alright guys, you convinced me lol. I went back, did some crunching, and yeah it was no contest. So many things I wasn't paying attention to, and after I saw the warpriest handbook, it's a no brainer.

I will be going L/G with law and good (gotta crush them undead you see). Quick Blessing is such bs, and I found a small qerky little gem, with Gravity Bow. Level1. Easy 2d6 boost for damage.

I won't hit as often as the zen archer right away but it's a small price to pay considering I will rock teh faces off with all the other spells. I am a bit feat starved at level 1, so I will be forced to take precise shot, since we have a few melee in this group. Is there nothing to swap out that stupid sacred weapon for? I find that to be absolutely useless lol. The slowness to get up to wis to hit is a bit unfortunate but it's pretty neat either way.

Anyway, The samsaran spells I planned on choosing are:

Gravity Bow, Litany of Righteousness, Versatile Weapon, Named Bullet, Named Bullet - Greater

[Psyren]

Is there nothing to swap out that stupid sacred weapon for? I find that to be absolutely useless lol.

Why? Sacred Weapon works with bows just fine. It'll even interact with Gravity Bow.

[Drackstin]

i think what he is saying it doesn't effect the damage till about 8th level. this is true for a high damage weapon, but it will come into play sooner or later, i made a TWF crit build that this worked great with, a 1d4 weapon isn't much to right home about, but sacred weapon helps those at level 1

[Psyren]

Starting at 4th level you can enhance the weapon, even adding properties to it, as a swift action - and the enhancement will stack with the weapon's existing enhancement bonus. So it absolutely will help out much earlier than 8th.

[killem2]

Starting at 4th level you can enhance the weapon, even adding properties to it, as a swift action - and the enhancement will stack with the weapon's existing enhancement bonus. So it absolutely will help out much earlier than 8th.

Oh my bad, I didn't realize that was part of the that ability. Yeah it was the replacement damage I thought was stupid. but I suppose that is ok :)

[killem2]

Question, are there any other gods that you all know of that have long bow as favored weapon?

[Psyren]

Question, are there any other gods that you all know of that have long bow as favored weapon?

Hshurha (NE), Elemental Lord Lady of Air, has longbow. (Domains: Air, Destruction, Weather.) She doesn't like fleshy creatures much.

Sinashakti (CG) is an Empyreal Lord (read: archangel) with shortbow. (Domains: Chaos, Good, Luck, Travel.) Gender unclear; angels are androgynous in PF and 4e. She(?) is called the Walker of Worlds and sprints through the planes so as to meet all peoples and see all there is to see.

There are also a number with throwing weapons (e.g. javelin and shortspear.)

[deuxhero]

Susanoo General Susumu has Longbow as his favored weapon and Evil, Glory, Law, Nobility, War as his domains/blessings, but he is evil.

Cernunnos is another Empyreal Lord, but he's chaotic. Ylimancha is yet another, but she's neutral good. Kroina is a lawful good one.

[VexingFool]

If you worship Erastil and pick up Deific Obedience you could go into the Evangelist prc and get WIS to damage at level-14. You would only lose one caster/warpriest level but pick up lots of other goodies.

DM permitting of course. My current game banned Evangelist.