Ways to create soldiers out of combat

[RoboEmperor]

I got an interesting idea to create a PC that relies mostly on out of combat created soldiers, so what are some ways to create these soldiers?

Really Powerful/Game Breaking
-Planar Binding (Every wizard can win the game with this spell)
-Ice Assassin (so freaking broken 5000xp cost is nothing)

Necromancy
-Animate Dead
-Animate Dread Warrior (I don't like this one... XP cost... )
-Command Undead +...
-Create Undead
-Create Greater Undead

Severely Environment Dependent
-Dominate Monster (Need to be in end-game state...)
--Polymorph Any Object some free willed creatures and dominate them
--Greater Humanoid Essence can make non-magic-immune constructs dominate-able
--Use spells like minor servitor or awaken sand to give life to objects and then dominate them. May require a greater humanoid essence usage.
-Dominate Person (Need a worthy human to exist, and he'll probably be non-expendable)
-Handle Animal Skill (Train tyrannosaurs! You just gotta find one... or a similar animal)
-Thrallherd (Psionic Dominator)

XP Cost
-Animate Object
--Without Permanency, too short duration to be considered out of combat creation. It requires 3000xp and unlike golems, CAN BE DISPELLED!
--Give permanency to a Runic Golem and have it cast it for free once a day.
-Artificer (Built in homunculus stuff)
-Craft Golem .
--XP cost is too huge for this to be viable.
--One exception is Greater Stone Golem. Requires CL14, 105,000 gp and 7,640 XP. It has an attack of +42 so almost nothing can dodge it, and it does 31 damage average a hit, 62 damage full round attack, and 271 hp. Also can cast slow as a free action every 2 rounds with 31 DC. In addition, transmute mud to rock fully heals him, so this golem MIGHT be worth the 1/2 of a level worth of XP required to craft him.
--Another exception is the shadesteel golem from MMIII. Stats aren't as impressive as the greater stone golem, and requires CL17 and access to 9th level spells to craft, but is cheaper and casting a heightened shadow evocation continual flame will permanently haste him and give him 9hp regen per round.
--Third exception is Runic Guardian. Costs 200,000gp to create and 4,600 XP. It can use any spell 7th or lower as a spell-like ability, which is open to abuse! Give it a permanency spell and you got yourself an animate object factory! Note that the the caster of animate objects is the only one who can command them.
-Simulacrum
--Unless you are going for Efreetis for Wishes, XP cost is too huge to be viable.
--If you give simulacrum to a Runic Guardian, he can create one simulacrum for free every day. Due to the material component requirements he may only be able to create only one type of simulacrum, but that's fine.
**If you use thought bottles, all of these can be crafted with only 500xp cost! Thought bottle requires 800xp to craft, and is reuseable I think. Need the cooperation of a bard and a wizard to craft, or a planetar with miracle. Honestly I don't think thought bottle is overpowered. All it does is almost remove the XP cost of crafting so you're limited by money not your will to part with your XP. Golems become expendable and not life long investments, which would promote people to make golems and allow a completely alternate playstyle in the game.

Feats
-Leadership
-Undead Leadership

Misc
-Mercenaries (money)
-Diplomacy
--With a couple points in diplomacy and a Moment of Prescience, a wizard could turn indifferent people into helpful people reliably, and arguably helpful people willing join your army for a while. Epic characters can create fanatic followers

Anyone know any other methods?

edit: Changed the title and made additions to the list

[Abd al-Azrad]

Enough ranks in Handle Animal and chicken feed can grant you a nigh limitless supply of meat-walls to throw at your foes.

Golems may be stupidly expensive, but Animated Objects are pretty tolerable. And your foes will never outlive the shame of losing a war to the inhabitants of the Beast's Castle from that Disney movie.

Do please note that Domination or other mental magics can net you a pretty sweet existing army, when deployed correctly.

[RoboEmperor]

Thanks, updated the list, though I don't fully understand handle animal o_o
From a quick read through, it seems you spend a lot of time training dogs and stuff just for them to go die.

[Abd al-Azrad]

Well, yeah, you can spend your time training dogs. Or, you can train a few Tyrannosaurs.

Totally your call.

[RoboEmperor]

Ok, that's viable XD. So where can one get a reliable supply of T-Rexes in most campaigns? Hmm... or similar powerful animals. Do you happen to have a nice list of animals to train? :) You might be able to read about such a location of dinosaurs in a book, use some sort of divination spell to find out where it is, and teleport there.

[Abd al-Azrad]

Dire everything. Any dinosaur. I recall there were some Legendary Animals introduced in one of the lesser-known 3rd-ed monster manuals.

I seem to recall the best possible choice was some sort of battle-bred tyrannosaur.

Handle Animal guide for 3rd-ed.

[Extra Anchovies]

Dire everything. Any dinosaur. I recall there were some Legendary Animals introduced in one of the lesser-known 3rd-ed monster manuals.

I seem to recall the best possible choice was some sort of battle-bred tyrannosaur.

Handle Animal guide for 3rd-ed.

MM2 has some, ELH has some. I also see reference to it being a template, but that's probably just confusion with the Monster of Legend template (also MM2).

[frost890]

Most people seem to forget that you can lvl an animal. You can add animal HD, it is in the MM. You can teach them feats/skills. You can improve them through items or magic and if your game is one of those that take it a bit slower even breed a better version. The knight captain might not have magic himself but his wizard friend can make the horses skin more resistant to blades. the dark army might even start a breeding program. Look at the MM the odd creatures that are not from another plane had to start somewhere. Some were created by wild magic others had some intent behind them. I have even conned my GM into adding levels of PC classes. When the rouge is riding a monk dog trianed in tripping things can become magical in there own way.

[RoboEmperor]

Greater stone golem might actually be viable. With a +42 attack bonus, it has a 95% chance to hit anything with 44AC or lower. It's average damage is 31 per hit, 62 for full round attack, and a transmute mud to rock spell FULL HEALS HIM (he has 271hp)! He is also immune to spells, critical hits, and has damage reduction. Now imagine him fully buffed! Haste (93 damage), bull's strength (though attack bonus is totally unnecessary), greater heroism (for saves), etc.

I think he can even solo pit fiends and balors.

This guy might just be worth the 1/2 a level of XP required to make him. (7,640 XP) You can make him at level 14! Depending on your DM, you could easily get the XP back by fighting planar bound creatures.
1. Planar bind the strongest guy you can
2. Make him fight your party
3. Kill or near-kill him.
Though this won't work if your DM deems fighting your stone golem an "impossible demand" because defeat seems obvious. If you disturb the circle and try to kill him, he can escape via planar binding even if you cast dimensional anchor on him.

Downside is if he dies... bye bye 7,640 XP. A lucky disintegrate could be the end of him, and if your DM is pissed off that your golem is destroying everything, he probably will bring in disintegraters.

[Vaz]

Mercenaries. You don't need Leadership. Doesn't have to be typical payment (ie gold etc) or typical mercs (ie humans). Could be a Pit Foend in exchange for your soul, or a Xorvintaal Dragon in exchange for becoming its exarch.

Thrallherd.

Artificer - golem creation.

Actually training characters. I'm playing in a game where I have to train some units to defeat an enemy army, taking them from commoners given equipment to NPC's. Essentially using the retraining mechanics.


@frost890, short of awaken animal, you can't give it HD, but the DM can. Sure you request a 30hd advanced housecat if you wish, but the DM may or may not grant it to you.

[Vrock_Summoner]

immune to spells...fully buffed! Haste (93 damage), bull's strength (though attack bonus is totally unnecessary), greater heroism (for saves), etc.

Just thought it'd be helpful to point out that Spell Immunity will stop most buff spells, including all the ones you listed, from working.

[RoboEmperor]

Just thought it'd be helpful to point out that Spell Immunity will stop most buff spells, including all the ones you listed, from working.

I think I read somewhere creatures immune to magic can intentionally allow some spells to affect them, or was that only for spell resistance? Hmm... double checking

edit: Can't find it right now >.<. But it doesn't matter, even without buffs greater stone golem is arguably a worthwhile investment. I mean, +42 attack??? o_O

[Petrocorus]

Well, yeah, you can spend your time training dogs. Or, you can train a few Tyrannosaurs.

Totally your call.

Do you actually mean to train Battletitans.

[aleucard]

Just about your best singular option if you want to focus on having an army is Thrallherd. You don't have to worry nearly as much about maintenance, it's self-regenerating over time after a hefty engagement, and they are absolutely loyal (mainly due to being functionally mindless, but still). The fact that you got psionics on top of it is pure gravy.

Second best is likely to be Summons/Binding/Gate and similar spells. On the one hand, depending on how and how well you do this, you could have a horde of any size you want. On the other, basically none of it will be incorruptible the way Thrallherd's horde is, and most of the groups that would be amenable to something like this aren't the kind who you'd want to sleep around in the first place.

Third would be Undead and the Command thereof. Your horde is going to be significantly smaller than either of the above (without use of the Undead Leadership feat, wherever that is), but it'll be for at least the most part just as loyal as the Thrallherd's, and you get the added fluff of converting enemies into allies. Don't expect much more utility than their place-holder value or BSF-standin without using the intelligent undead, though.

Last would be the Leadership feat itself. It's technically compatible with most of everything I've mentioned except the Thrallherd, though, which is a plus. It's still completely bonkers by normal standards, though. Don't make the mistake of judging a nuke to be worthless just because there's a stockpile of them over yonder.

[(Un)Inspired]

Greater stone golem might actually be viable.

I think he can even solo pit fiends and balors.

This is the craziest thing Ive read since frost890 said he put makeup on his monk dog.

Your rock-man is a lump. How the hell does he even attack something that can fly?

[RoboEmperor]

This is the craziest thing Ive read since frost890 said he put makeup on his monk dog.

Your rock-man is a lump. How the hell does he even attack something that can fly?

Throw rocks at it? XD

Ok, assume the pit fiend or balor was inside a massive thick cave when the stone golem ambushed it and teleportation doesn't work in the cave. I'm just saying I was surprised to find out that in a man to man fight the greater stone golem would destroy these end-tier demons and devils.

[Abd al-Azrad]

Do you actually mean to train Battletitans.

I seem to recall the best possible choice was some sort of battle-bred tyrannosaur.

That is indeed precisely what I meant.

Re: the non-viability of high-XP options, there are ways around this too. The cleanest (and most stupidly broken, of course, so YMMV) is the Thought Bottle. For 500XP, you make a backup save of your current XP total, then do whatever you want, then break the Thought Bottle to restore your previous save.

I'm guessing you could do all sorts of other shenanigans with soul binding sacrifices, etc.

[RoboEmperor]

Thought bottle note added.
Best trick is 2 bottles
Lets say you have 10000xp in your current level
First bottle drops it to 9500 and stores it
2nd bottle drops it to 9000 and stores it.
You use 9000xp to craft, then open 2nd bottle to get the 9000xp back. Then store it again as 8500, and repeat
Once you're finished, open first bottle.

[enderlord99]

You don't create soldiers out of combat. You create combat out of soldiers.
I have a feeling I misinterpreted the phrase "out of."
As for how you do that, it's pretty easy; after all, people who aren't willing to be part of combat rarely become soldiers in the first place!

[Vaz]

I think I read somewhere creatures immune to magic can intentionally allow some spells to affect them, or was that only for spell resistance? Hmm... double checking

edit: Can't find it right now >.<. But it doesn't matter, even without buffs greater stone golem is arguably a worthwhile investment. I mean, +42 attack??? o_O

No they can volumtarily lower that immunity. The trick depens llds on it being intelligemt enough though or being orderedd to. However that leaves it open to enemy spells. It us RAW legal, but likely an unintended application of the rule. That same rule allows warforged to ignore their immunity to healing spells for example

Also note that turning it back on will end those buffs IIRC

[RoboEmperor]

Thanks for the clarification. Spell Immunity > Haste

Doesn't matter though, like I said, 62 damage a round is amazing! I can't believe I ignored stone golems in favor of iron golems.

[Petrocorus]

Re: the non-viability of high-XP options, there are ways around this too. The cleanest (and most stupidly broken, of course, so YMMV) is the Thought Bottle. For 500XP, you make a backup save of your current XP total, then do whatever you want, then break the Thought Bottle to restore your previous save.

Be careful with Thought Bottle, it's not really DM-friendly, except in quite high-powered game.
Personally, if i were to DM, the mere mention of it by a player would worth him an immediate smite with some pizza box or soda bottle (i don't have many hard-cover books).

[RoboEmperor]

Well it depends. Lot of people think XP cost for crafting is crap and thought bottle drops the cost to 500xp, which is bearable. But yeah, if your DM thinks the XP cost for creating items is "balanced" then I guess no thought bottle.

[Emperor Tippy]

Also note that turning it back on will end those buffs IIRC

No, it doesn't. Spells only check viability when initially cast, not on a continuing basis. There are a few specific exceptions but all of them are called out in the spells themselves.

[RoboEmperor]

No, it doesn't. Spells only check viability when initially cast, not on a continuing basis. There are a few specific exceptions but all of them are called out in the spells themselves.

If you could provide documentation, you can end this argument here and now :)
Can't for the life of me find the documentation of magic immune monsters allowing certain spells to go through, and what you said >.<

[Emperor Tippy]

If you could provide documentation, you can end this argument here and now :)
Can't for the life of me find the documentation of magic immune monsters allowing certain spells to go through, and what you said >.<

Page 177 of the PHB for the first one.

[RoboEmperor]

Page 177 of the PHB for the first one.

That's spell resistance right? A DM could argue "immunity to magic" extraordinary ability is not spell resistance and therefore not intentionally lower-able.

If you're right though, then yeah reactivating immunity to magic would not dispel buffs.

[Extra Anchovies]

That's spell resistance right? A DM could argue "immunity to magic" extraordinary ability is not spell resistance and therefore not intentionally lower-able.

If you're right though, then yeah reactivating immunity to magic would not dispel buffs.

Magic immunity is equivalent to SR ∞. Monster Manual p. 315:

Spell Immunity (Ex): A creature with spell immunity avoids the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly affect it. This works exactly like spell resistance, except that it cannot be overcome.

[RoboEmperor]

There ya go! I was right! You can haste a greater stone golem :)
I'm definately gonna make one in my next game.

[frost890]

Sorry about the spelling I worked a really log day the last time I posted. The rules for advancing a monster are in chapter 4 of the MM(page 290) the rules on monsters getting XP are left blank(leveling with you or getting part of the xp of the group) so as with most advice ask your GM. They do not list any Int requirement. In the fluff it says that as with all entries in the MM the states given are for the average member of the species. So advancing a dog/horse/t-rex in monstrous HD is not out of the question. The table gives HD type, skills ect. Have fun.