PrC suggestions and general help for my ''Uber''charger

[Sneaky Hue]

Hello playground.
I got help from you guy's two weeks ago, now i just need some final suggestions.

Orc
Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/ Fighter 3

STR - 20
DEX - 13
CON - 14
INT - 11
WIS - 11
CHA - 8

Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Bullrush, Weapon Focus:Greataxe. Going for Leap Attack and Shock Trooper ASAP.

Allowed books: Core, Complete series, Players guide to Faerun and Unearthed arcana.

I started as Water Orc, DM offered me playing with a Orc instead without light sensitivity. I know Greataxe is not optimal, i choose for flavor.

Here are my questions.



Taking my book limitation in consideration, what PrC should i go for? Frenzied Berserker is too dangerous. Is Exotic Weapon Master really the only option?


Should i get more Barbarian level at all? Or just stomach just having 1 activation of Rage( whirlwind frenzy ) per day?


For now, i'm going with a Chainshirt since i figured Movement and Jump penalty for a Leap Attack would be no good. Should i stick with it or go for Mithral Full Plate eventually?

I know very little about 3.5 Magic Items. Could you guys recommend me some?


That is it.
Sorry about the poor English and thanks in advance.

[Sneaky Hue]

Btw i forgot to mention. No spellcasting PrC please.

[Ellowryn]

Drop the weapon focus for extra rage (most of those other feats are fighter bonus feats so you should have a normal feat slot to drop it in).

Bear Warrior from C.Warrior is a very good PrC, but see if your Dm will allow you to use the ability as written and not use the polymorph rules.

Fist of the Forrest is also good but would require some not so useful feats.

Frenzied Berserker is very very good, if you are really worried about the frenzy problem then at the start of the day walk into a closed room or somewhere with nobody around and waste your uses per day. The x4 to power attack is worth all that.

Exotic weapon master really doesn't do anything for your build so don't bother with it.

Beyond that any PrC that advances full BaB is going to be just as good as staying fighter/barbarian.

[Sneaky Hue]

Drop the weapon focus for extra rage (most of those other feats are fighter bonus feats so you should have a normal feat slot to drop it in).

Bear Warrior from C.Warrior is a very good PrC, but see if your Dm will allow you to use the ability as written and not use the polymorph rules.

Fist of the Forrest is also good but would require some not so useful feats.

Frenzied Berserker is very very good, if you are really worried about the frenzy problem then at the start of the day walk into a closed room or somewhere with nobody around and waste your uses per day. The x4 to power attack is worth all that.

Exotic weapon master really doesn't do anything for your build so don't bother with it.

Beyond that any PrC that advances full BaB is going to be just as good as staying fighter/barbarian.

Bear Warrior, good ideia.
Althrough i can see my DM glaring at me because of this busywork:

''As normal for polymorph, the bear warrior gains the bear form's physical qualities (including size, movement, natural armor bonus, natural weapons, space, and reach), as well as any extra ordinary special attacks possessed by the form (such as improved grab in the brown bear or dire bear form). ''


About that Frenzied Berserk cheese...it's cheesy. DM would not be happy.

[Venger]

Bear Warrior, good ideia.
Althrough i can see my DM glaring at me because of this busywork:

''As normal for polymorph, the bear warrior gains the bear form's physical qualities (including size, movement, natural armor bonus, natural weapons, space, and reach), as well as any extra ordinary special attacks possessed by the form (such as improved grab in the brown bear or dire bear form). ''


About that Frenzied Berserk cheese...it's cheesy. DM would not be happy.

what cheese are you talking about?

[Feint's End]

About that Frenzied Berserk cheese...it's cheesy. DM would not be happy.

Why is that? This seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do in game.

It even opens up great RPG opportunities when your group is travelling with this maniac who has to cool his rage every morning so he can control himself during the day. If that isn't great then I don't know what is.
Everybody will be afraid of the one time he didn't get to do it. Or if you are in a castle sieged by enemies you could willingly refrain from spending it all in the morning ... brooding over your axe. Then when the battle finally started unleash hell and everybody will know ... **** is about to get real.

Make it a story of legends when you don't "cool" your head in the morning.

[Sneaky Hue]

Why is that? This seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do in game.

It even opens up great RPG opportunities when your group is travelling with this maniac who has to cool his rage every morning so he can control himself during the day. If that isn't great then I don't know what is.
Everybody will be afraid of the one time he didn't get to do it. Or if you are in a castle sieged by enemies you could willingly refrain from spending it all in the morning ... brooding over your axe. Then when the battle finally started unleash hell and everybody will know ... **** is about to get real.

Make it a story of legends when you don't "cool" your head in the morning.

I agree, it would be cool.
But my DM would be pissed. He thinks its cheesy to choose a PrC and waste the class feature just to avoid it's flaw.

[Venger]

I agree, it would be cool.
But my DM would be pissed. He thinks its cheesy to choose a PrC and waste the class feature just to avoid it's flaw.

There's low-op, some stormwinders talk about "no-op" but I think this goes beyond even that.

This isn't a "flaw" this is something that will literally cause you to kill all your friends.

[Sneaky Hue]

There's low-op, some stormwinders talk about "no-op" but I think this goes beyond even that.

This isn't a "flaw" this is something that will literally cause you to kill all your friends.

It's not really about OP.
I understand his reason, he does not like sacrificing fluff for mechanical advantage.

[Feint's End]

There's low-op, some stormwinders talk about "no-op" but I think this goes beyond even that.

This isn't a "flaw" this is something that will literally cause you to kill all your friends.

This pretty much.

It's not about bypassing a "flaw" but rather dealing with the messed up part of this otherwise wonderful class in-character. Nothing cheesy here (in fact I'd probably reward players for dealing with this mechanic in a creative way).

Edit: sacrificing fluff? SACRIFICING FLUFF? This isn't sacrificing fluff .... This is handling a problem in character. None of the fluff gone.
Mechanical advantage? You do know that frenzy would make you stronger in fight. So if at all you give something up.

It all depends on your character in the end but for you to work in a group you need to play a frenzied Berserker who finds a way to deal with his frenzy. Otherwise it will end in dead people and broken friendships (which can be fun in some games ... but in most it just sucks).

[Venger]

It's not really about OP.
I understand his reason, he does not like sacrificing fluff for mechanical advantage.

the assumption that improving mechanical effectiveness (by such "cheese" as not killing all your own teammates) reduces fluff because the two are inversely proportional is known in roleplaying circles as the "stormwind fallacy." I mention it so you can look it up and see why it's not true rather than derailing the thread with the same stormwind stuff again.

[Feint's End]

the assumption that improving mechanical effectiveness (by such "cheese" as not killing all your own teammates) reduces fluff because the two are inversely proportional is known in roleplaying circles as the "stormwind fallacy." I mention it so you can look it up and see why it's not true rather than derailing the thread with the same stormwind stuff again.

This isn't necessarily the case. Nothing what he said implies stormwind fallacy. It can in fact happen that people reduce fluff for mechanical advantage. Like a druid who has never seen a dinosaur wanting a flesh raker because they are better than their wolf.
Not a case of the stormwind fallacy.

Edit: what I mean is he never implied that fluff and mechanical strength are inversely proportional.

[Sneaky Hue]

I told you already, i agree with you guys. But i understand where the DM is coming from also. In the end, it's not my call. I wish i could use it, but i cannot.

[Feint's End]

I told you already, i agree with you guys. But i understand where the DM is coming from also. In the end, it's not my call. I wish i could use it, but i cannot.

Well then I still suggest frenzied berserk. Play it for some time until your dm let's you figure out a way to handle it in character. Maybe after an especially fierce battle where you wound up almost killing a team member your character realises he has to find away to control the growing rage inside.

Solve it via RP. Same result and your dm will love you.

[Oddman80]

i think you have time with the Frenzied Berserker.... no need to rush into it. see if you can pick up Steadfast Determination first to help your will saves, and put your level/ability bonuses into CON.
If you take 3 levels of Ranger, you can get Endurance for free, as well as Two Weapon Fighting, and Favored Enemy (most campaigns have a creature type that shows up more than not...) Why care about two weapon fighting? ARMOR SPIKES! You can Two Hand your Great Axe, and still attack with your armor spikes as an off hand attack. your strength and BAB should be high enough to handle this. Especially with Shock Trooper.

Now - those ranger levels should have given you some nice skill points to use... so why not go Dragon Disciple for 3 levels, and pick up Natural Armor, a +2 Strength Boost, a Bite Attack, 2 Claw Attacks, and a Breath Weapon... Plus it has Strong Fort & Will Saves, so between that, and steadfast determination your will save should start looking a bit better now...

Last thing to make sure you do then, before entering Frenzied Berserker, is get a crystal mask of mind armor (+4 untyped bonus to will saves). Not sure if you have a pair of Sundark Goggles - but you can put them on (while they are face slot too - they are not magical items so it doesn't matter... let the Crystal Mask of Mind Armor use the slott for magical purposes) whenever you want to negate the light sensitivity.

Now you shouldn't be the same threat to your friendxs as you would have otherwise been... Oh... and you can do a TON of damage... and Power attack works with Natural Weapons.. so that extra Bite Attack looks pretty sweet with all that bonus power attack damage...

[Ellowryn]

This thread exploded while i wasn't paying attention.

About Bear Warrior, what i meant was that originally polymorph allowed you to keep any gear that could otherwise normally be wearable in your new form but due to expected wizard cheese they later errata'd it so that everything you wear or carry melds with your new form. So now, if you rage and shift to bear you are stuck with two full strength claw attacks and one half strength bite. If you go with the former there are items that allow you to wield weapons as animals that you can wear to allow you to take advantage of your massive str modifier when you change.

[Sneaky Hue]

i think you have time with the Frenzied Berserker.... no need to rush into it. see if you can pick up Steadfast Determination first to help your will saves, and put your level/ability bonuses into CON.
If you take 3 levels of Ranger, you can get Endurance for free, as well as Two Weapon Fighting, and Favored Enemy (most campaigns have a creature type that shows up more than not...) Why care about two weapon fighting? ARMOR SPIKES! You can Two Hand your Great Axe, and still attack with your armor spikes as an off hand attack. your strength and BAB should be high enough to handle this. Especially with Shock Trooper.

Now - those ranger levels should have given you some nice skill points to use... so why not go Dragon Disciple for 3 levels, and pick up Natural Armor, a +2 Strength Boost, a Bite Attack, 2 Claw Attacks, and a Breath Weapon... Plus it has Strong Fort & Will Saves, so between that, and steadfast determination your will save should start looking a bit better now...

Last thing to make sure you do then, before entering Frenzied Berserker, is get a crystal mask of mind armor (+4 untyped bonus to will saves). Not sure if you have a pair of Sundark Goggles - but you can put them on (while they are face slot too - they are not magical items so it doesn't matter... let the Crystal Mask of Mind Armor use the slott for magical purposes) whenever you want to negate the light sensitivity.

Now you shouldn't be the same threat to your friendxs as you would have otherwise been... Oh... and you can do a TON of damage... and Power attack works with Natural Weapons.. so that extra Bite Attack looks pretty sweet with all that bonus power attack damage...

Thank you for the response.
You made a lot of good points, i will take a look into it. Steadfast Determination i had already considered, i was just not sure if it was enough.

[Sneaky Hue]

This thread exploded while i wasn't paying attention.

About Bear Warrior, what i meant was that originally polymorph allowed you to keep any gear that could otherwise normally be wearable in your new form but due to expected wizard cheese they later errata'd it so that everything you wear or carry melds with your new form. So now, if you rage and shift to bear you are stuck with two full strength claw attacks and one half strength bite. If you go with the former there are items that allow you to wield weapons as animals that you can wear to allow you to take advantage of your massive str modifier when you change.

Yeah, the Bear Warrior fluff is awesome. But i do not have acess to the items needed for him to use weapons. Sadly.

[Barbarian Horde]

War Hulk......... or
Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Crusader 2/Fighter 2/Crusader +14, Human.

1: Improved Shield Bash, Power Attack
2: Improved Trip
3: Improved Bull Rush
5: Shield Charge
6: Shield Slam, Extra Granted Manuever
9: Shock Trooper
12: Leap Attack
15: Shield Specialization
18: Shield Ward
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...ic=1532.0;wap2
This build was created and explained on this thread posted above. Its called the bulldozer.

Just to show the actual build, it's Feat Varient Rogue 2/Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Dungeoncrasher 6/War Hulk 10. Race is anything large with LA paydown, or a Human with Permanent Enlarge Person. Feats for the human version would be:

1: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Specialization, Power Attack
2: Improved Bull Rush
3: Knockback
4: Improved Trip
5: Shield Charge
6: Cleave
8: Shield Slam
9: Shock Trooper
12: Leap Attack
15: Shield Ward
18: Weapon Focus (Spiked Armour)

[Oddman80]

War Hulk......... or
Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Crusader 2/Fighter 2/Crusader +14, Human.

Check up in the OP... TOB is not allowed nor is Miniatures Handbook... so.... you retrained on of his fighter levels for Wolf Totem Barbarian, and he still needs 16 more levels ;)