Protecting Gear

[Kelb_Panthera]

Imagine that the DM keeps using sunders, rust monsters, thieves, etc to relieve the party of excess wealth. How do you defend against this as a non T1-2 caster?

[Extra Anchovies]

Play an unarmed-variant Swordsage?

Be a T3 caster?

Accept the fact that martials can't have nice things?

[Xerlith]

Craft: Trapmaking and lots and lots of arrows. If they're dead before they're close, they can't steal from you.

[PsyBomb]

Early on, a Bluesteel weapon means you will never lose your offense to a Ruster

[ben-zayb]

Make them out of Riverine whenever possible? Sure that'll be expensive, and would end up just a Disintegrate away from destruction, but that goes for most items anyway.

[Psyren]

Play Pathfinder, where Mending and Make Whole can repair magic items.

(Also, mundanes can craft their own replacement gear for most slots.)

[aleucard]

Assuming that you're within WBL, throat-punch the DM until he promises that the only time he'll use these tactics is when the gear can be replaced at no cost to the players (get enough treasure to buy copies, some method of repairing the magic items at no cost, etc.). Your gear is as much a part of your character as its class(es), or rather the feats and ACF's. The DM shouldn't screw with that unless he's willing to catch you back up immediately.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Assuming that you're within WBL, throat-punch the DM until he promises that the only time he'll use these tactics is when the gear can be replaced at no cost to the players (get enough treasure to buy copies, some method of repairing the magic items at no cost, etc.). Your gear is as much a part of your character as its class(es), or rather the feats and ACF's. The DM shouldn't screw with that unless he's willing to catch you back up immediately.

This is a bit extreme but certainly not wrong. WBL is an important part of character building and a DM should keep you close to it.


Perhaps a refinement of the question then?

What do you do in to prevent thieves from nicking your gear?

What do you do about frequent encounters with creatures that have gear destruction abilities?

[SiuiS]

This is a bit extreme but certainly not wrong. WBL is an important part of character building and a DM should keep you close to it.


Perhaps a refinement of the question then?

What do you do in to prevent thieves from nicking your gear?

What do you do about frequent encounters with creatures that have gear destruction abilities?

That varies by character doesn't it? This isn't a meta problem and shouldn't have a meta answer. One shouldn't "solve" for the game itself.

[aleucard]

The only two situations that make sense for the introduction of gear-eating mobs into a campaign (assuming that they're obviously gear-eating and it's not everyone that targets it) is either the scenario I mentioned or as a more subtle version of an invisible wall. Nobody likes getting their gear eaten after all, and seeing a squad of such beasties guarding the front gate will persuade the party to take an alternate route. The key, however, is PROVIDING that alternate route. Rust monsters and the like should NEVER be on a random encounter table, for reasons that are obvious to anyone who wasn't repurposed as a soccer ball as an infant. If a DM thinks that such things are NOT bull@#$# outside of situations where either the party is overgeared (sometimes happens, whether to DM error or RNG smiling on the party too often for the DM to handle otherwise), the party is being directed away from the obvious, or the party will be rewarded on top of the cost of repairs/replacement, then he needs a reality check. I'm not one for screwing around in such situations, so stating the problem directly and ensuring they understand the seriousness will help get it resolved as quickly and finally as possible.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The only two situations that make sense for the introduction of gear-eating mobs into a campaign (assuming that they're obviously gear-eating and it's not everyone that targets it) is either the scenario I mentioned or as a more subtle version of an invisible wall. Nobody likes getting their gear eaten after all, and seeing a squad of such beasties guarding the front gate will persuade the party to take an alternate route. The key, however, is PROVIDING that alternate route. Rust monsters and the like should NEVER be on a random encounter table, for reasons that are obvious to anyone who wasn't repurposed as a soccer ball as an infant. If a DM thinks that such things are NOT bull@#$# outside of situations where either the party is overgeared (sometimes happens, whether to DM error or RNG smiling on the party too often for the DM to handle otherwise), the party is being directed away from the obvious, or the party will be rewarded on top of the cost of repairs/replacement, then he needs a reality check. I'm not one for screwing around in such situations, so stating the problem directly and ensuring they understand the seriousness will help get it resolved as quickly and finally as possible.

I very much understand where your coming from but for the sake of staying on topic let's assume you've already discussed it with the DM, he's still doing it, and you don't want to walk away from the game.

That varies by character doesn't it? This isn't a meta problem and shouldn't have a meta answer. One shouldn't "solve" for the game itself.

I suppose it does, so further refinement then:

Let's say you're a 14th level factotum. You can have whatever gear you want up to WBL but you know that the mcguffin is at the bottom of a dungeon that is -swarming- with gear eaters; rust monsters, that one creature that shreds armor (name escapes me), etc. How do you keep all your gear from being torn to shreds in this dungeon?

[ben-zayb]

^ polymorph maybe?

[Extra Anchovies]

Let's say you're a 14th level factotum. You can have whatever gear you want up to WBL but you know that the mcguffin is at the bottom of a dungeon that is -swarming- with gear eaters; rust monsters, that one creature that shreds armor (name escapes me), etc. How do you keep all your gear from being torn to shreds in this dungeon?

MM2's Rampager, perhaps?

[aleucard]

I very much understand where your coming from but for the sake of staying on topic let's assume you've already discussed it with the DM, he's still doing it, and you don't want to walk away from the game.

Let's also assume that this is not the kind of campaign where such a thing is not accounted for in a realistic way (that is, should the players be at least a little creative, they should only feel the effects of a gear-eater for that mission only, and only if the mission can't be 'paused' by some method).

In this case, we come to what can be called a Monkey Wrench problem. Namely, this is functionally a monkey wrench in the gears of the game, and the game needs to be stopped and the wrench removed before it can continue lest the game explode. If the ENTIRE party is willing to roll with it, though, the wrench is more of a wooden toothpick, but it will be noticed and likely NOT appreciated. Best not to nudge that blowtorch any closer to the Gentleman's Agreement, mkay?

[Rater202]

Why do I need protecting?

In all seriousness, The Answer to your ptoblem is "Your GM is an asshat" and the solution to dealing with Rust Monsters is "Don't go near them" or "Don't have Metal"-Aint nothing stopping you from declaring that your mundane sword/mace/what have you is made of stone. Stone arrowheads, leather armor, etc.

The Armor shredder is a bit harder, becuase I'm not quite sure what they are, but just not entering melee range with them should help.

Range weapon users and casters loaded up with blasting spells should work pretty well.

In general, it's a good idea to carry a ranged weapon if at all possible-Slings and sling bullets are free and have no weight by RAW-just keep backing up and hurling bullets at them.

If your gear keeps getting taken away anyway, then the first conclusion is the correct one, your GM is a jerkass and this can be fixed with adequate application of boot to ass.

[Kelb_Panthera]

MM2's Rampager, perhaps?

That's it.



Again, I know that the DM doing this and failing to compensate is being a douche. That's not the point. I'm looking for how to actually protect the gear. In any way at all.

I'll throw a couple ideas out to see if we can't keep this ball from having another false start.



Get your gear made of bronzewood to prevent rust attacks. Arcane lock on your handy haversack to thwart thieves. A device to dim' lock the area while you rest thwarting ethereal filchers just snatching the whole pack. Etc.

[aleucard]

Isn't there some mods to at least armor and weapons out there that boost Hardness and Break DC by significant amounts?

For general worn equipment, a lead-lined cloak and/or cape should help. Can't target what you can't see.

Taking pages out of the Druid's playbook should help for most methods that don't use Sunder, but I think there's things that do comparably mean things to animal, plant, and stone matter too. Not as common, but still.

For stealth types, my best suggestion would be to find some way to get a familiar-like pet that does not sleep and get it both Mindsight and some means to wake you up instantly. Other detection methods too if you can. Remember, if necessary, they have equipment slots too.

[Curmudgeon]

Don't be seen, and you can't be targeted. If playing in Forgotten Realms, take the Dark Creature template in Cormyr: The Tearing Of The Weave (page 152). Stay out of daylight, and you can Hide every time you move.

[Red Fel]

Again, I know that the DM doing this and failing to compensate is being a douche. That's not the point. I'm looking for how to actually protect the gear. In any way at all.

Doesn't matter.

Short answer? If your DM wants to do something, douchey though it may be, he'll do it. If he wants to mind control your PC, he'll throw save after save at you until you fail one. If he wants your PC dead, every monster will target him until he's in the ground.

And if he wants to destroy your gear, he will. Using wood to avoid rust monsters? He'll throw on sunders and termites. Using magic gear? Disjunction is a thing. Do you ever plan to remove it? Bag of Devouring, your stuff is gone and so is your arm.

Look, there are sensible ways to protect your gear. Tricks like Blueshine, or using Adamantine, or wood, or crystal, or find stuff made from magical reinforced bones. Get your gear cursed so it always comes back to you; put spells on it so anyone who tries to grab it gets a nasty surprise; build it from Aurorum so it can be reconstructed if sundered; have it hand-crafted so that it's unique to your class/race/idiom (as a bonus, that should make it cheaper, right?); there are lots of ways to attempt to protect yourself from gear destruction and theft.

Doesn't matter.

If the DM wants to wreck and steal your gear, he can and he will.

Your solution is to become gear-independent. I hear Psions are in season.

[Elkad]

If the DM wants to wreck and steal your gear, he can and he will.

Your solution is to become gear-independent. I hear Psions are in season.

You are assuming malice on the DMs part. Remember, every time you roll a 1 vs an AOE effect, your gear has to all save too. And it has terrible modifiers. Critical fail vs 2d4 worth of Burning Hands? Your Headband of Intellect has Hardness:0 and Hitpoints:1. Guess you'll be buying a new one when you get to town.

Your +1 Adamantium Flaming Frost Shocking Dancing Defending Wounding Lifestealing Vorpal Greatsword is still only +1, so it has Hardness 22 and 23hp. Fire needs to do 90 damage to kill it, not exactly a lot, and even weak acid/sonic attacks mean big trouble.

I take their stuff all the time. Not with rust monsters, by enforcing the rules. Every time a 1 comes up, we march right down their item list rolling saves.
In turn, they keep backup gear stashed away, cast Hardening on their favorite gear, invest in Glassteel potion bottles, keep Mending and Make Whole handy at all times, and do some hilarious things at times. Sure the mundanes are more gear dependent, but their stuff tends to be metal, or at least leather, and have enhancement bonuses for more hitpoints. Wizards are covered in fragile/flammable goodies.

[Extra Anchovies]

You are assuming malice on the DMs part. Remember, every time you roll a 1 vs an AOE effect, your gear has to all save too. And it has terrible modifiers.

They use your own save modifiers if they're attended items, actually.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm also pretty sure it's only one piece of gear that is threatened by a nat' 1.

[Red Rubber Band]

I fail to see why a DM is automatically being as asshat or is the supreme douchelord of doucheville if they introduce these creatures. I understand that the creatures eat your stuff, but maybe people can just assume there's a reason they have been introduced (even though it was covered in the OP). That way people could get off their "kill the DM" bandwagon and help answer the question instead of spouting self righteous BS.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I fail to see why a DM is automatically being as asshat or is the supreme douchelord of doucheville if they introduce these creatures. I understand that the creatures eat your stuff, but maybe people can just assume there's a reason they have been introduced (even though it was covered in the OP). That way people could get off their "kill the DM" bandwagon and help answer the question instead of spouting self righteous BS.

It's the unfortunate dichotomy that WBL seems to have fallen into. "WBL isn't important to making the game work," and "attacking the party's gear is terrible and you should feel terrible because WBL is important," are both very prevalent sentiments in spite of the fact they're mutally exclusive.

Both have elements of truth tinged with exaggeration. WBL is important but a game can be run without it by a skillful DM. It's sometimes best to be upfront with players about your stance on the matter. Personally, I try to keep the party within about 15% of the listed values but I also only count permanent and semi-permanent gear against it and trust the players not to abuse any generosity I show in giving them liquid assets in, sometimes great, excess of those values. Houseruling or a firm hand in disseminating treasure can make it a non-issue but it does erode player agency somewhat.

All of this is, of course, irrelevant to the question I'm actually asking but some people have difficulty setting the issue aside since it does affect one of the core streams of power for non-casters.

[Extra Anchovies]

The best way to protect gear is to stay at range. Almost all equipment-destroying effects are melee.

Honestly, the front-line combatant that most benefits the party is a summoned minion, because they are wholly disposable and either don't need gear to act as a wall of meat or are given gear in their statblocks.