New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 31 to 49 of 49
  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    One of the worst classes ever made?

    Buddy, Have you taken a look at how needlessly obtuse the Shadowcaster is? Or how the samurai makes the Fighter look well put together? How about the fact that Truenaming gets more difficult purely by leveling up and then you get a free gate from your troubles.

    I dislike the warmage too, but to say it is one of the worst seems a bit melodramatic.
    Seconded. Warmages (like the other fixed list casters) make good use of feats and classes that expands their spells known. That makes them extremely versatile in their field of expertise.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ArqArturo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexic
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendol View Post
    Seconded. Warmages (like the other fixed list casters) make good use of feats and classes that expands their spells known. That makes them extremely versatile in their field of expertise.
    One of the good things of the Warmage is the fact that you don't really 'lose' much when you enter a prestige class. Sure, a lot of people will say that's also bad, and that the sorcerer also doesn't lose much, but, the warmage already has the crunchy stuff from levels 1-3, maybe even 6.

    But, a thing to understand about the Warmage, is that it's not really much of a spellcaster, but an archer with fancy ammunition and lousy skill selection :p.
    Last edited by ArqArturo; 2014-11-20 at 02:54 AM.
    MAGIC, n. An art of converting superstition into coin. There are other arts serving the same high purpose, but the discreet lexicographer does not name them.

    Taken from The Devil's Dictionary

    Spoiler
    Show
    My Warmage Guidebook (notice I said Guidebook, not Handbook), still in the works.

    Pathfinder's Inquisitor Handbook.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff the Green View Post
    And they only speak barbarian tongues, which naturally consists of saying "bar bar bar" over and over again.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    I've enjoyed playing a Fighter 4/Warmage 8/Havoc Mage 2. Admittedly, to make it work reasonably well I got some fluke-picks from a deck of many things and got to add the half-dragon template for the bonuses to hard and soft stats but it's been fun hitting things and casting 2nd level spells in combat during a full attack
    TTFN

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Duskblade, War Mage, Battle Sorcerer. All benefit greatly from a Sand Shaper dip.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Warmage looses out to the Wizard in terms of flexibility but it has one massive advantage: It can cast spells in light armor without any casting penalty. That's pretty sweet. That's a +4 to AC from Chainshirt for free basically.

    Anyhow can someone tell me why the Spellswords Channel Spell ability is considered so good? I can't wrap my head around it. The RBM's channel spell (free action) is great because it also grants an attack bonus equivalent to the spell level being channeled. So a 4th level spell channeled grants a +4 attack bonus on top of the spell and the attack.

    But the spellsword only gets to discharge a spell. And it can only channel as a move action if I recall correctly, so no full attacking in the same round unless you channel in a prior round or prior to combat (spell is stored for 8 hours I think...BUT it is discharged on the next attack, even if the attack is against a rabbit)

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Dec 2007

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by andhaira
    Warmage loses out to the Wizard in terms of flexibility but it has one massive advantage: It can cast spells in light armor without any casting penalty. That's pretty sweet. That's a +4 to AC from Chainshirt for free basically.
    Mithril chain shirt and Mage Armor (and luminous armor and such) obviate that whole class feature. Wizards (and sorcs) often have the best AC in a given party without armor. Even at low levels, Alter Self - Troglodyte (+6 NA), Mage armor (+4), Shield (+4), Usually Dex (+1), a Wiz is at 25. That's better than full plate + Shield.

    Also, at higher levels, not only can Wizard get his AC higher, but as AC stops mattering as attack bonus outstrips it, the Wizard can get Miss Chance from his spells, which is far more useful.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    A Warmage can become a better and more versatile caster than a Wizard anyway. Just take ten levels of Rainbow Servant.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ArqArturo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexic
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
    Duskblade, War Mage, Battle Sorcerer. All benefit greatly from a Sand Shaper dip.
    Does it taste good? I like a good dip :p (sorry heheh).
    MAGIC, n. An art of converting superstition into coin. There are other arts serving the same high purpose, but the discreet lexicographer does not name them.

    Taken from The Devil's Dictionary

    Spoiler
    Show
    My Warmage Guidebook (notice I said Guidebook, not Handbook), still in the works.

    Pathfinder's Inquisitor Handbook.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff the Green View Post
    And they only speak barbarian tongues, which naturally consists of saying "bar bar bar" over and over again.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by satorian View Post
    Mithril chain shirt and Mage Armor (and luminous armor and such) obviate that whole class feature. Wizards (and sorcs) often have the best AC in a given party without armor. Even at low levels, Alter Self - Troglodyte (+6 NA), Mage armor (+4), Shield (+4), Usually Dex (+1), a Wiz is at 25. That's better than full plate + Shield.

    Also, at higher levels, not only can Wizard get his AC higher, but as AC stops mattering as attack bonus outstrips it, the Wizard can get Miss Chance from his spells, which is far more useful.
    Yeah, warmage spell list is short on defensive buffs (and buffs in general). Which is another reason for them never to be close to the enemy.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by satorian View Post
    Mithril chain shirt and Mage Armor (and luminous armor and such) obviate that whole class feature. Wizards (and sorcs) often have the best AC in a given party without armor. Even at low levels, Alter Self - Troglodyte (+6 NA), Mage armor (+4), Shield (+4), Usually Dex (+1), a Wiz is at 25. That's better than full plate + Shield.

    Also, at higher levels, not only can Wizard get his AC higher, but as AC stops mattering as attack bonus outstrips it, the Wizard can get Miss Chance from his spells, which is far more useful.
    Mithril Chain shirt still has 10% casting penalty. Also, Mage Armor grants an armor bonus to AC, which does not stack with physical armor. Unlike the Shield spell, but that's why Shield has such a short duration, good for 1 combat only.

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Troll in the Playground
     
    (Un)Inspired's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Cambridge, MA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by ranagrande View Post
    A Warmage can become a better and more versatile caster than a Wizard anyway. Just take ten levels of Rainbow Servant.
    Actually, I'm changing my suggestion to this. A Warmage/rainbow servant with divine power persisted is a pretty nasty Gish.
    amazing avatar of my favorite character, Gheera, by Pesimismrocks

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sith_Happens's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Dromund Kaas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by andhaira View Post
    Anyhow can someone tell me why the Spellswords Channel Spell ability is considered so good?
    Because it lets you channel any spell at all, including area spells and personal spells. One the entries for the Spellsword round of Iron Chef, for example, was a Wu Jen that smacks Transcend Mortality onto things and then dismisses it to kill them.
    Revan avatar by kaptainkrutch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ArqArturo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexic
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    Actually, I'm changing my suggestion to this. A Warmage/rainbow servant with divine power persisted is a pretty nasty Gish.
    I played a Gestalt Warmage/Paladin Raptoran. It was awesome :D.
    MAGIC, n. An art of converting superstition into coin. There are other arts serving the same high purpose, but the discreet lexicographer does not name them.

    Taken from The Devil's Dictionary

    Spoiler
    Show
    My Warmage Guidebook (notice I said Guidebook, not Handbook), still in the works.

    Pathfinder's Inquisitor Handbook.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff the Green View Post
    And they only speak barbarian tongues, which naturally consists of saying "bar bar bar" over and over again.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Telok's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    61.2° N, 149.9° W
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    I've always wanted to do a duskblade 3, warmage 1, warblade 1, and into a prc that has Int synergy. However we don't use UE at our table. Duskblade 3 gets you Combat Casting, spell channeling, and cantrip SLAs. Warmage 1 grabs Int to all damage spells, Knowledge Devotion is also a kind of Int to damage. Then grabbing the Abrupt Jaunt Conjurer level and going into your PrC. It loses five wizard levels, which is ugly for a high level game, but at mid levels it works ok.

    Another thing I'm considering is Duskblade 5 with the Apprentice feat then Urpriest 2 and another PrC that advances divine casting. You need a good Wis though. And cleric 9ths at 15th level is sweet.

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    As long as you do have access to Complete Mage, I wonder why did not anyone mention Focused Specialist. This specialized wizard variant grants you 3 extra spell slot on your specialized school in total, and cost you 3 banned schools. Which does not seem to be a problem for OP, as you are not looking at some more eldritchy things and mostly focus on damage spells.

    Just keep in mind that you benefit from each of the schools: abjuration (shield and anti-spells things), conjuration (or not if you are not expecting damaging golems with spells or fore armours), evocation (all the damage spells), necromancy (false life and nasty damage/debuffs with no save) and transmutation (with grants important things like wraith strike). Enchantment and illusion are less important, and you may find substitute to abjuration/necromancy if you have got right class features.


    There are some cool (or not cool) options:

    Armour: fighter substitute class feature, either armoured mage in CM or dragonscale husk in Dragon Magic. Abjurant champion offers another solution but cost you levels. If you are a dwarf, runecaster (Race of Stone) provides a once-for-all solution for arcane failure, but may not be your best choice.

    Spell channelling: the best spell channelling ability goes with either ordained champion (CC) or spellsword, which can channel ANY spells into your weapon (which is incredibly powerful with higher spell levels) , but you have to lost at least 3-4 caster levels if you start with wizard spell list. It should also be mentioned that, the channelled spell can be applied to thrown weapons, and can be done before the combat.
    RBM is the second best spell channeling ability, which doesn't cost you actions to do it, but limited to a much shorter list of available spells. Still can do some clever tricks, though.
    The next is duskblade's spell channelling. It is melee only and can only be a standard action, but can be applied to ANY spells he knowns (usually only duskblade spells, though).
    Lastly is smite spell feat. It costs very low but is limited to touch spells, and is most inconvenient.

    Combat casting: which is casting-while-attacking ability. Spontaneous metamagic will do it 1 time per day with a very high feat cost. RMB already provides one solution for you at mid-to-high levels, though, so you can just stick to it. Some other PrCs like abjurant champion allows you quicken some limited list of spells.
    Last edited by Astralia123; 2014-11-20 at 10:38 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Astralia123 View Post
    Armour: fighter substitute class feature, either armoured mage in CM or dragonscale husk in Dragon Magic. Abjurant champion offers another solution but cost you levels. If you are a dwarf, runecaster (Race of Stone) provides a once-for-all solution for arcane failure, but may not be your best choice.
    Armored Mage is icky-bad. The best you can do is seven levels of fighter and thirteen levels of a caster class.

    Dragonscale Husk is icky-bad. No armor enchantments.

    Mithral Fey- or Gith-craft Chain Shirt with Thistledown Suit is yes-good. +4/-0/0%, no enchantments necessary.
    Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2014-11-20 at 09:34 PM.
    Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
    My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
    Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
    Spoiler: Current Characters
    Show
    Cassidy Halloran, Human Scout
    William Gamache, Human Relic Channeler Medium
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
    Lay on hands? More like Lay your Eyes on this sick elbow drop!

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Jeff the Green's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Great PNW
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Dragonscale Husk is icky-bad. No armor enchantments.
    Also, it doesn't stack with any feat, racial ability, or other special ability that gives a bonus to AC. RAW, that includes things like Dodge and probably the Abjurant Champion's class features, and might include things like soulmelds or spells.
    Author of The Auspician's Handbook and The Tempestarian's Handbook for Spheres of Power.
    Ask me (or the other authors) anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Well, of course I'm paranoid about everything. Hell, with Jeff as DM, I'd be paranoid even if we were playing a game set in The Magic Kiddie Funland of Perfectly Flat Planes and Sugar Plums.
    Greenman by Bradakhan/Spring Greenman by Comissar/Autumn Greenman by Sgt. Pepper/Winter Greenman by gurgleflep

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff the Green View Post
    Also, it doesn't stack with any feat, racial ability, or other special ability that gives a bonus to AC. RAW, that includes things like Dodge and probably the Abjurant Champion's class features, and might include things like soulmelds or spells.
    Wow, that's a massive editing oversight. It's probably very much RAI that it only doesn't stack with other armor bonuses, as per normal armor.
    Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
    My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
    Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
    Spoiler: Current Characters
    Show
    Cassidy Halloran, Human Scout
    William Gamache, Human Relic Channeler Medium
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
    Lay on hands? More like Lay your Eyes on this sick elbow drop!

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: Warmage vs Battle Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff the Green View Post
    Also, it doesn't stack with any feat, racial ability, or other special ability that gives a bonus to AC. RAW, that includes things like Dodge and probably the Abjurant Champion's class features, and might include things like soulmelds or spells.
    Its worst effect is that it still takes the body slot. Other than this, it is just okay, cause it costs almost nothing and can be turned off when you have better armour to wear (but if it is heavy/medium armour, you will need a new class level to "reset" your armour option).

    Useless when we are talking about something like a heavily optimized campaign, but I guess it is not that unacceptable with this one..
    Last edited by Astralia123; 2014-11-21 at 02:46 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •