Erfworld 36

[Darkhalio]

iono if anyone said this yet but does anyone think the way it ended this casual convorsation may leak some info to the other side someway >.>

[Innis Cabal]

i knew saying they were sisters would spark comments....behold....the power of cheese. And feternal twins, which i am one, share more then just normal siblings...just becuase we dont look the same and dont have the whole parent trap thing going dosnt null out connections other siblings do not have.

[Scientivore]

BTW, I believe the commitment problem that Scientivore is describing is called Cognitive Dissonance

It's related. It's a cognitive bias composed of selective perception and confirmation bias. I originally learned about it from reading things that Charlie Munger had said in his speech on the causes of human misjudgment, which I discovered thanks to Whitney Tilson's article on the Motley Fool.

Since then, I've also read Influence by Cialdini, which Munger referred to in his speech. It was very slow going. I'm usually a very fast reader but with that book I had to set it aside for a month between chapters in order to fully absorb and internalize what I'd read. That's 240ish pages densely packed with super-important info for anybody who wants to not actually be a gullible tool.

[Earendill]

The second part of this strip got me very confused.

Back when commenting strip nr. 30 my theory was that Wanda and Jillian were good friends or even sisters, that Wanda let Jillian escape several times, and that this time Wanda suspects (knows) that they are being watched by one of Stanley's lookamancers (those can see things that happen elsewehere). Wanda realises Jillian is not aware so she gets rough to make her understand. I had three arguments for that :

1) the surprised face Jillian has when she says "The very easy way Wanda. Let's both of us get out of here and..." like it was something completely natural (other people interpreted this as an offer to defect to Ansom's side - I found it a clumsy offer if so)

2) Wanda hits Jillian to interrupt her phrase - IMO to prevent her from saying something too compromising and to make her understand the situation.

3) Jillian, whose main trait in the bio is Fearless suddenly submits to Wanda's requests after 2 (moderate intensity) hits - why would her ? - one answer I got from people was "Cause she wants to !"

There were two other interpretations - one was that there is an ambivalent SM relationship between the two of them and the other was that Wanda hates Jillian completely.


Strip 36 does not bring clarification (except it excludes the "Wanda hates Jillian" theory). While I find no clear argument for my theory (or against it for that matter) - there is room for interpretation. The authors did not want us to have it easy :) did they ?

Assuming Wanda and Jillian are friends and they know they are being watched, what Wanda says can be interpreted in a different manner.

"Dawn will be soon here prisoner. If you managed to hold anything back, you're almost in the clear." - "Hold on, at dawn we'll be able to act normal"

"Tonight you will be rewarded properly" - "tonight I'll let you escape".

"Let us speak freely until dawn" - two options: either "they are not watching us any more" - (unlikely though) or - "we can talk now in a more normal manner".

Fact - Jillian knows Wanda very well: "you hate that stuff, don't you ?" - a simple prisoner torturer relation won't explain that. There has to be more between them.
Fact - Jillian escaped many times while being probably under Wanda's control. You would expect Wanda to be angry at her when she gets her back - she is not (based on their final exchanges in strip 36)

I personally dont like the much too obvious version of there is a SM thingie between them - I find it unfitting with the characters so far - but I've been wrong before. However, the info we got so far is limited and open to interpretation.

[cosine]

I could be wrong, of course. But given how the conversation has been in the plural up to that point, it's entirely reasonable to assume that the conversation is still plural, and is talking about more than just Jillian.

In fact, you are wrong.

Vinnie speaks in a common, casual vernacular. It is very common in that mode of speech to refer to a person by their last name instead of their first.

"I don't know what he did to the A clan, the B clan, or the Zamussels."

This form is proper English when refering to a group, but instead he drops the emphasized 'the'... this clearly indicates he is saying:

"I know what he did to me, to our friends, and to you. I don't know what he did to her."

Vinnie is running down a list of why various people are fighting, including Ansom personally and Jillian personally.

[Gitman00]

Fact - Jillian escaped many times while being probably under Wanda's control. You would expect Wanda to be angry at her when she gets her back - she is not (based on their final exchanges in strip 36)

Adding "probably" and "expect" negates the "Fact" you're asserting here. The fact, in actuality, is that Jillian was captured many times. We don't know if she escaped, or was deliberately released, or something else entirely. There may even be something in the universe's rules that says, "Captured prisoners are released after X turns." Something like this would fit with the turn-based strategy theme.

Bottom line: Your theory is certainly valid, but not fact. We just don't have enough information yet.

Rampant speculation follows:

Spoiler

Show

What does seem obvious is that Wanda and Jillian have a history. The nature of that history has not been revealed to us yet. Most of the possibilities have been brought up in this thread already, so I won't rehash them. I'll point out some things I find interesting, though.

In #30, Jillian starts off the conversation casually, teasing Wanda, but not too viciously. Wanda, however, is all business. It's clear that she takes her job seriously. It seems to me that when Jillian figures this out, and realizes that torture is imminent, she appeals to Wanda's compassion based upon their relationship, whatever that may be. Note the pleading look on her face in #30, panel 6. She probably has a good idea of the relative strength of both their armies, and has good reason to assume that Ansom's about to wipe Stanley off the map. Since she doesn't know about Lord Hamster, she believes that Wanda is expecting the same thing. Ergo, Jillian offers her an "out," hoping that Wanda will abandon her loyalty to Stanley and escape with her before Gobwin Knob is annihilated. Something tells me that had Wanda accepted, they wouldn't be heading back to Ansom. Her reaction to Wanda's command, "Yes, Mistress," seems full of resignation, as though she expected no less, but at least she tried.

What I get from Jillian is that she is frustrated by the whole situation. It seems obvious to her that Ansom's going to win the war, and pointless that Wanda still remains loyal to a leader she doesn't even like. She doesn't comprehend that Wanda would do this "just because it's her job".

I just can't buy the bdsm sexual thing. The innuendo is far too overt, and it's never explicitly stated. I think the authors are having a lot of fun screwing with us as far as that goes, and there's something far more complicated going on. The latest comic lends credence to the assumption that Jillian is aware of Wanda's frustration with her employer. The abrupt shift from Mistress/Prisoner to Wanda/Jillian suggests to me that the torture and interrogation was, indeed, "just business," and I think that the two of them like each other, at the very least. I believe Wanda really would have croaked her had she held anything back, but again, I think it was "just business". Wanda strikes me as a pragmatist who is utterly without compassion, so she doesn't have a problem with that. I like the comparison to the Looney Tunes schtick ("Mornin', Sam." "Mornin', Ralph").

[cosine]

I personally dont like the much too obvious version of there is a SM thingie between them - I find it unfitting with the characters so far - but I've been wrong before. However, the info we got so far is limited and open to interpretation.

Not liking it is not grounds for dismissing it.

Clearly, the author intends for this line of supposition to at least be considered. Nothing is done to avoid it and several things to allow for it. It takes more leaps of the imagination to build the story you've written than it does for the SM story... but that doesn't mean you are wrong. Indeed, it may be the very intent of the author to lead us along a garden path.

Implied relationships are frequently used in literature as a way of generating interest. At this point, it seems clear there is more going on between Wanda and Jillian than simply torturer/prisoner, however, we are likely to project lots of things onto the scant information we have now;

We are treated to the most real information in 30;

1) Wanda and Jillian know each other pretty well.
2) Wanda is actually surprised at Jillian suggesting "the easy way" - and Jillian goes on to suggest they escape together. This clearly indicates they have at least a friendly relationship.
3) 30:9 is a very erotic panel with the two within kissing distance and a very obviously implied SM undertone.

These things are all pretty obvious, but are they obvious because they are meant to lead us astray or to show something it would be difficult to show directly? Only time will tell.

[SteveMB]

The second part of this strip got me very confused.

Join the club. It upended a few of my inferences, while leaving quite a few possibilities open.

Back when commenting strip nr. 30 my theory was that Wanda and Jillian were good friends or even sisters, that Wanda let Jillian escape several times, and that this time Wanda suspects (knows) that they are being watched by one of Stanley's lookamancers (those can see things that happen elsewehere). Wanda realises Jillian is not aware so she gets rough to make her understand. I had three arguments for that :

1) the surprised face Jillian has when she says "The very easy way Wanda. Let's both of us get out of here and..." like it was something completely natural (other people interpreted this as an offer to defect to Ansom's side - I found it a clumsy offer if so)

Actually, I read Jillian's expression as having at least a strong element of "I can't believe I'm saying this" -- it suggested to me that she knew that she was throwing a curve ball into the situation.

The offer to escape was a bit ambiguous -- it could be a proposal to defect, or to surrender on more favorable terms than she'd get if Gobwin Knob fell, or for both of them to just leave the war behind.

2) Wanda hits Jillian to interrupt her phrase - IMO to prevent her from saying something too compromising and to make her understand the situation.

This part of the theory I just don't buy -- it that was all, it would have been easier to just yell "Silence!" or something.

3) Jillian, whose main trait in the bio is Fearless suddenly submits to Wanda's requests after 2 (moderate intensity) hits - why would her ? - one answer I got from people was "Cause she wants to !"

As I mentioned on that thread, the question is why she "wants to" play along so quickly. My initial theory (that this session got much nastier much faster than usual) would seem to be refuted by Jillian's non-comment on the subject when given latitude to speak freely.

There were two other interpretations - one was that there is an ambivalent SM relationship between the two of them and the other was that Wanda hates Jillian completely.

Strip 36 does not bring clarification (except it excludes the "Wanda hates Jillian" theory). While I find no clear argument for my theory (or against it for that matter) - there is room for interpretation. The authors did not want us to have it easy :) did they ?

No, they didn't. I suspect that they're going for something more than the "ambivalent SM relationship", but aren't above playing with that imagery.

Assuming Wanda and Jillian are friends and they know they are being watched, what Wanda says can be interpreted in a different manner.

"Dawn will be soon here prisoner. If you managed to hold anything back, you're almost in the clear." - "Hold on, at dawn we'll be able to act normal"

"Tonight you will be rewarded properly" - "tonight I'll let you escape".

"Let us speak freely until dawn" - two options: either "they are not watching us any more" - (unlikely though) or - "we can talk now in a more normal manner".

The problem is that their conversation seems a bit too elliptical if they aren't being monitored, and too compromising if they are. (Admittedly, there's the possibility of Wanda hedging her bets if she's not sure whether or not they're being monitored, but the last part of their conversation with Wanda describing the summoning -- and, perhaps worse, dissing Stanley with her talk of his yelling "all this garbage" -- just seems too risky if Wanda perceives any risk at all of being overheard.)

Fact - Jillian knows Wanda very well: "you hate that stuff, don't you ?" - a simple prisoner torturer relation won't explain that. There has to be more between them.
Fact - Jillian escaped many times while being probably under Wanda's control. You would expect Wanda to be angry at her when she gets her back - she is not (based on their final exchanges in strip 36)

I personally dont like the much too obvious version of there is a SM thingie between them - I find it unfitting with the characters so far - but I've been wrong before. However, the info we got so far is limited and open to interpretation.

Indeed.

[Webwalker]

In fact, you are wrong.

Vinnie speaks in a common, casual vernacular. It is very common in that mode of speech to refer to a person by their last name instead of their first.

"I don't know what he did to the A clan, the B clan, or the Zamussels."

This form is proper English when refering to a group, but instead he drops the emphasized 'the'... this clearly indicates he is saying:

"I know what he did to me, to our friends, and to you. I don't know what he did to her."

Vinnie is running down a list of why various people are fighting, including Ansom personally and Jillian personally.

I may be wrong in this situation, as I said. However, your last statement is making analogy that is quite obviously wrong in this situation.

"I know what he did to me." is not the same as "He attacked us" "Us" appears to be used with a plural meaning here, where "Us" is Vinnie's clan. (the only time that a plural is used in reference to a singular person is the Royal "We", and considering how Vinnie doesn't play up his royalty aspect, which he states later on in the strip, it's highly unlikely that "us" is just "Vinnie".) It denotes a plural, not a singular. "He hit the elves" is analogous to "our friends", as both are plural. "He rubbed out the Milquetoast clan" is definitely not analogous to "you". Especially when Ansom is of the Jetstone, not Milquetoast. Had Ansom been a member of the Milquetoast clan, then "You" could be interperted as being Ansom, and potentially your analogy would be more solid.

Also, the next several panels also blow your part of argument out of the water, as he is not saying why Ansom is fighting, but asking him why he is fighting. The point of panels 2-10 is Vinnie asking Ansom why he is fighting, why Jetstone is fighting. Vinnie is definitely not stating why Ansom is fighting. To quote yourself, "In fact, you are wrong." about that.

As for the rest, I think I've showed well enough how the first three statements that Vinnie made were referring to groups of people, so it is not difficult to see "Zamussels" as being plural as well. It might refer simply to Jillian, or it may be similar to his statement about "Us"; Stanley might have done something to the Zamussels clan, and that is why Jillian is fighting, much as how Stanley did something to Vinnie's clan, and that's why Vinnie is fighting.

But to say I'm flat out wrong in my thoughts in this? I might be, but not for the reasons you've pointed out. You're right in some aspects; it's very common for people to refer to "Smith" instead of "John Smith", so it's possible Vinnie is referring to Jillian when he says "Zamussels". However, given that the first three he refers to are all plural, there's no indication either way that Zamussels is singular (Jillian) or plural (the Zamussels clan). And considering how Vinnie refers to "Jetstone" in panel 5, not "the Jetstones" or "the Jetstone Clan", and clearly indicates he is speaking of the entire Jetstone clan, it also makes it more likely that when he said "Zamussels", he meant the entire Zamussels clan. Your claim that because it's common for people to refer to others by their surname, so this is obviously Vinnie referring to only Jillian, is at least thrown into doubt in Panel 5, if not outright refuted.

It is also possible that there was supposed to be a "the" before Zamussels, as there is enough room for it there. It wouldn't be the first time something had been mistakenly deleted or not included, or inconsistent. Vinnie is "Vinnie" in #34, but "Vinny" in #22, and "Vinnie" in #8. A very minor inconsistency, but that's to be expected in any writing. It's possible that there may be a missing "the" after "did to".

All in all, we'll have to wait and see what the creators give us about this in the future. There's not enough evidence to say which of us is right, if either of us are.

[cosine]

But to say I'm flat out wrong in my thoughts in this? I might be, but not for the reasons you've pointed out. You're right in some aspects; it's very common for people to refer to "Smith" instead of "John Smith", so it's possible Vinnie is referring to Jillian when he says "Zamussels". However, given that the first three he refers to are all plural, there's no indication either way that Zamussels is singular (Jillian) or plural (the Zamussels clan). And considering how Vinnie refers to "Jetstone" in panel 5, not "the Jetstones" or "the Jetstone Clan", and clearly indicates he is speaking of the entire Jetstone clan, it also makes it more likely that when he said "Zamussels", he meant the entire Zamussels clan. Your claim that because it's common for people to refer to others by their surname, so this is obviously Vinnie referring to only Jillian, is at least thrown into doubt in Panel 5, if not outright refuted.

I cannot believe I am actually having a discussion about this irrelevancy, but what the heck... it's a slow day.

I am striving for the most natural, most direct reading. We have not been introduced to more players from Jillian's clan. Indeed, we've been specifically told that she does not have a tribe. Thus, to even have an attempt at interpreting this as plural, you'd have to presuppose that the information we've been given is wrong... that's not a leap of logic I am prepared to make.

Plurality means nothing. All people switch from refering to plural things and singular things in conversation constantly. That is what I am calling you on - you are reading more into this than we have reason to believe might be true. There is no Zamussels clan - we see Jillian claims no tribe. Thus, Vinnie cannot be refering to a plural tribe.

[WhiteNoise]

personally i think even if jillian escapes/released/rescued with info on hamster i dont think Ansom would take the threat seriously, i think he'd dismiss hamster as some no nothing, non noble from another dimension,

after all he wont know anything about how things work here.........


but if you go back to when Wanda was told to just buy the warlord spell she was upset shocked and worried,

She wanted the ultimate warlord summoned and that would have been it Caesar meets Genghis khan with a dash of Rommel and Montgomery game over Stanley wins.

[Chummer]

Weee good story i cant wait to see what Bogroll comes p with !

There can not be a sexual relationship between wanda and her Slave for the evening .... if there was the seen would NOT have endet up in friendly talking.

this must be like Hamster said .... All so polite

Toture session is over (the turn is to begin at daybrake) what to do until it does ..

seems that ouer two girls have alot in commen .. they bouth serve Lords they aint too found of.... loyal yeah proberly but i guess they have had alot of theese "listen what my lord made me do ..." (girlish bathroom talk)if you could call it that in Erf world ..

just thoughts =) i got the feeling the writer is playing with ouer minds =)

[SteveMB]

But to say I'm flat out wrong in my thoughts in this? I might be, but not for the reasons you've pointed out. You're right in some aspects; it's very common for people to refer to "Smith" instead of "John Smith", so it's possible Vinnie is referring to Jillian when he says "Zamussels". However, given that the first three he refers to are all plural, there's no indication either way that Zamussels is singular (Jillian) or plural (the Zamussels clan). And considering how Vinnie refers to "Jetstone" in panel 5, not "the Jetstones" or "the Jetstone Clan", and clearly indicates he is speaking of the entire Jetstone clan, it also makes it more likely that when he said "Zamussels", he meant the entire Zamussels clan. Your claim that because it's common for people to refer to others by their surname, so this is obviously Vinnie referring to only Jillian, is at least thrown into doubt in Panel 5, if not outright refuted.

Hmmm... OK that example does at least open the possibility that he's referring to an entire clan in both cases, despite the absence of "the". It could be interpreted either way pending more information -- the main reason for interpreting it as singular is that Jillian "claims no clan" and is (as far as we've been shown) acting as an individual free agent.

[SteveMB]

Wanda is telling Jillian about Parson? Either she thinks there's no chance of her escaping/being rescued, or she wants Ansom to know about Parson. Hmmm...

If Jillian's previous escapes were actually rescues (i.e. Ansom's forces overran the place where she was being held), it makes sense -- if Ansom doesn't win this battle, she isn't going anywhere; if he does, it won't matter any more because the war will be over.

[belboz]

The way I see the Wanda/Jillian relationship, it's like this. They're friends, possibly good friends. They think one another are fine people. But, y'know, Wanda's a *torturer*. It's part of her job description. And Jillian is a captured prisoner. It's nothing personal, you see.

Wasn't there a Monty Python sketch or something along these lines? Torturer unties victim, they shake hands, torturer asks, "Same time tomorrow?" victim nods and says something like "Give my best to Mary and the kids," and they go their separate ways?

[benthehater]

One thing that really excited me about this page was that the first frame with Wanda vividly evoked one of my favorite scenes from Sandman. The light and shadow, the camera angle, the eye glint, and even the hair were dead ringers for a shot from at least one of the comics. I believe it might have been near the end of Season of Mists, the "Oh, Azazel." Panel from the showdown at the end of that storyline. Maybe not. But unless the Sandman shot was itself derived, it's a clear homage to one of the Sandman artists.

I'm so glad you pointed this out. Yeah, it's entirely too similar to be coincidental. :) Awesome awesome awesome.

[SteveMB]

On page 30 the scroll looks Sandy Brown at first but the glow when it's used is clearly Yellow. Yellow was my guess for the color of Eyemancy. Eyemancy includes Lookamancy (irrelevant), Thinkamancy and Foolamancy.

Because Thinkamancy is under Eyemancy, it can probably only be used to look into people's minds, not control or dominate them. Since Wanda says that she knows that Jillian didn't hold anything back, that's probably what it was. However, a very interesting possibility is that Foolamancy could be used to make illusory thoughts, not just illusory sights.

Think about it. You could be enduring a perfectly normal torture session as usual when all of a sudden you think, "This is hopeless. I should just tell her everything." If you haven't been practicing disputing your own automatic negative thoughts then you're probably in the habit of accepting them at face value. So, if Foolamancy has mental suggestions, they could be very effective in the right situation.

Another interesting thing is that Wanda's rack of scrolls contains quite an assortment of colors -- odd, if the colors correspond to different types of magic, given her disinterest in magicks outside of Croakamancy.

[Darth Paradox]

Another interesting thing is that Wanda's rack of scrolls contains quite an assortment of colors -- odd, if the colors correspond to different types of magic, given her disinterest in magicks outside of Croakamancy.

Perhaps the "little interest" she has in such magicks is entirely centered around their application to torture. For example, I bet Hippiemancy isn't terribly useful in torture. Dirtamancy probably wouldn't get her anything she couldn't do better with another type. But when the magic directly aligns with her hobbies...

[SteveMB]

Perhaps the "little interest" she has in such magicks is entirely centered around their application to torture. For example, I bet Hippiemancy isn't terribly useful in torture. Dirtamancy probably wouldn't get her anything she couldn't do better with another type. But when the magic directly aligns with her hobbies...

True, but how wide a variety would that cover, really? I can see the possible relevance of Thinkamancy (to make it harder for Prisoner to hold anything back, and confirm that she didn't) and Foolamancy (unpleasant illusions; I suspect that the "headache spell" is basically an illusory physical sensation).

OTOH, a variety of combat/self defense spells might be a good thing to have on hand in case of an escape....

[Imgran]

I suspect that there's a lot of incidental spells that have side effects or alternative uses that would help torture and interrogation.

Also we do know that Wanda, despite not caring much about cross-class spells, is competent cross-class. Just because she doesn't like cross-classing (or doesn't care to cross-class) doesn't mean she isn't prepared to do it when she has to or when it serves her interests to do so. After all, she has to keep in practice to retain the skill right?

[Rokus]

Ok, some observations, facts and opinions, manyof which have already been noted. I just wanna summarize a bit. =)

Fact: They have something of a history involving familiarity.

Fact: Torture isn't just Wanda's job: It is her hobby!

Opinion: I think it would be safe to say that she derives at least some satisfaction from it. I would say that the frame where she was informed of the dungeon's new arrival was probably the most expressive she has ever been.

Fact: Stanley is aware of, if not specifically what kind of relationship Wanda and Jill have, at least he is familliar with her being captured before.

Minimally related fact: More people cheat than you think. No one will have accurate numbers on something most people will never admit. If you've ever tried online dating, you may find it hard to post an ad without the greater portion of your responding inquiries being from people who are looking for a little something more than what they already have. Opinion; I think this sucks. Makes it hard to be old school.

Opinion: They aren't related. Psssh.

Opinion: Bog is either crafting or at least otherwise working on Parson's armor. We don't know for sure, but #37 strongly suggests this is the case. The occlusion in that mystery frame was intentional, I think.

Opinion: Vinnie may have simply been referring to Zamussels being captured. They don't know what happened to her. Although in the context it seems more likely he is wondering at her motivations for being part of the army. We don't know the answer to that.

Fact: There *was* a submissive/dominant power dynamic in this interchange. These are mature concepts that don't necessarily have to do with sex and eroticism per se, although they often do. We don't really know the story in this case, and how it relates to the pre-existing familiarity Wanda and Jillian have.

Opinion: D/s is about XYZ! No! Gawd!

Fact: We don't know why Jillian is fighting, why Wanda is fighting, or what Stanley intends to do with the Arkentools once he aquires them.

Truth be told, the best part of this story is what isn't being told, and there is quite a bit of that! With each new piece of information, you have to move the borders of your perception out a little further, and you end up having 20 more questions about the one you just had answered. Good stuff!
I only wish there were more updates, cus I want to know what happens next too.

[Scientivore]

I suspect that there's a lot of incidental spells that have side effects or alternative uses that would help torture and interrogation.

Predictamancy: discern the interrogation tactics and techniques that are most likely to succeed.

Dirtamancy: suck them down into the dirt and form the equivalent of a subterranean iron maiden. Don't add crap unless you're prepared for them to die from septic shock in the event that it gets into an open wound.

Hippiemancy: oh, please. Just make them feel groovy. Once they loooove you, maaaan, it's over. Easiest interrogation EVAR. Also great for increasing suggestibility for Foolamancy. Be sure to have snacks on hand for afterward so that you don't get the great idea to send the prisoner on a food run.

Abjuration & Findamancy: abjure them a kilometer up. Let them fall 950 meters down. Findamancy them back. Use Foolamancy beforehand to make it seem more dangerous by presenting the illusion that you goofed and killed another prisoner by showing off and cutting it too close.

Fate magic: make it crucial to the plot that they tell you.

Heal magic: just in case you get too..."enthusiastic"...with any other interrogation techniques.

[SteveMB]

Predictamancy: discern the interrogation tactics and techniques that are most likely to succeed.

Dirtamancy: suck them down into the dirt and form the equivalent of a subterranean iron maiden. Don't add crap unless you're prepared for them to die from septic shock in the event that it gets into an open wound.

Hippiemancy: oh, please. Just make them feel groovy. Once they loooove you, maaaan, it's over. Easiest interrogation EVAR. Also great for increasing suggestibility for Foolamancy. Be sure to have snacks on hand for afterward so that you don't get the great idea to send the prisoner on a food run.

Abjuration & Findamancy: abjure them a kilometer up. Let them fall 950 meters down. Findamancy them back. Use Foolamancy beforehand to make it seem more dangerous by presenting the illusion that you goofed and killed another prisoner by showing off and cutting it too close.

Fate magic: make it crucial to the plot that they tell you.

Heal magic: just in case you get too..."enthusiastic"...with any other interrogation techniques.

Hmmm... true. I don't think the Hippiemancy one is at all Wanda's style, though.

[Scientivore]

From 11:7-8 it appears that using Hippiemancy affects the caster too. So, emotionally bonding with prisoners could be an occupational hazard of using it to interrogate. You might just feel so close to them, like you're one with the universe, maaan, like, part of each other.

If Wanda used it on Jillian in the past, that could explain their apparent emotional intimacy.

[SteveMB]

From 11:7-8 it appears that using Hippiemancy affects the caster too. So, emotionally bonding with prisoners could be an occupational hazard of using it to interrogate. You might just feel so close to them, like you're one with the universe, maaan, like, part of each other.

If Wanda used it on Jillian in the past, that could explain their apparent emotional intimacy.

Hmmm... an interesting possibility. I still don't see it as Wanda's style -- but precisely because of her aloof personality she might have underestimated that "occupational hazard".

[agentx42]

Guilty as charged, though I'd be highly surprised if mine is the filthiest mind around here.

If it turns out that they've never shared any sort of sexual relationship, I can buy that. But I cannot buy that they are sisters. I just can't.

But what if your mind WERE the filthiest here? Shame on you and your naughty cabbage.

As for not believing they might be sisters? Obviously you never grew up in my house, with two sisters doing their daily rendition of "Trojan Pig! Spartan Dog!" You don't want to know the details.

[SteveMB]

But what if your mind WERE the filthiest here? Shame on you and your naughty cabbage.

Band name!

As for not believing they might be sisters? Obviously you never grew up in my house, with two sisters doing their daily rendition of "Trojan Pig! Spartan Dog!" You don't want to know the details.

Sure we do....

Seriously, though, the possibilities for Wanda's and Jillian's relationship are wide open at this point.