Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. III: Cut off one thread, two more shall take its place

[Helanna]

I would pay to see her face when Ward shoots Hand.

I really want to capture it on film, but I think she might get a little suspicious if I set up a camera

Anyway, concerning which of the Ward brothers to trust...I'm inclined to believe the Senator's side of things more. But only because it fits more with how I myself view Ward, and because I have reasons to believe that his confession was genuine. If it wasn't, if Senator Ward was really that manipulative, the instance Grant let his guard down to hug him he would of been tossed into that hole in the ground. I do believe Christian Ward honestly felt that they where making up, because he told the truth.

We saw how that turned out

On the one hand, I'm inclined to believe the senator's confession due to the circumstances in which he gave it and his reaction afterward. On the other hand, I also have no trouble believing that Ward didn't really need that much pushing to begin with.

Side note: Did we ever find out what happened to their brother? Is he still hanging around somewhere?

[theNater]

Spoiler: Alas, Poor Mac

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I barely knew him, anyway.

Technically it's too early to write him off, since in his alien-possessed uber-mode he probably survived the fall. But it does seem like Mac himself is already gone.

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It all depends on what Coulson meant by "that isn't Mac". It could literally mean that the city made a clone of Mac, and the real Mac never came back up. Or that Mac was irrevocably possessed, and was effectively dead as soon as he touched the ground. Or it could have been a lie to help Fitz do what, in Coulson's judgement, needed to be done.

There's no way to know what Mac's status is.

Spoiler: ...Ye Who Enter Here

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Bobbi is up to something. I'm very curious to find out what.

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My guess is that she's in contact with Fury in some way. She can't tell Coulson, because Fury doesn't want Coulson to start looking to him for orders, but she is asking about why he's not doing what Fury would do so she can relay those answers to Fury if he asks.

Ward: I think Ward isn't quite as far gone as people think. Clearly Whitehall wasn't willing to let the Bus go, but Ward was willing to do so and seemingly willing to go through with it. Wards capable of being very sociopathic, but he isn't anywhere near as nasty or ruthless as HYDRA at large and seeing how exactly he takes Whithalls override next episode could be telling.

Ward is willing to let the Bus go because Ward doesn't get anything out of destroying it. If killing everyone on the Bus would advance his goals in any way, he'd do it in a heartbeat.

[Forrestfire]

I really want to capture it on film, but I think she might get a little suspicious if I set up a camera :smalltongue

Set it up in the side of the room before you watch, obviously

[Kitten Champion]

People don't just randomly decide to go try and do something like burn the house down with everyone inside for giggles. He's gone from actively loathing his family to being willing to kill them. Thats a big jump and it seems to have happened suddenly since you know he wasn't trying to kill them before that or anything. That's pretty much the definition of a breackdown.

I'm not sure Ward killed his family. The only context we have for that is the news reports, which are notoriously plot convenient. His motives are still somewhat obscured, it's difficult to take anything about him on face value.

[Carl]

I'm not sure Ward killed his family. The only context we have for that is the news reports, which are notoriously plot convenient. His motives are still somewhat obscured, it's difficult to take anything about him on face value.

I'm referring back to season 1 where where shown/told of him doing that as a collage student, hence why he was in prison for garret to come find. I actually find it interesting that garret found out about him so fast, what was it that dragged Garret to Ward exactly?

@Helanna:

Thing is as you yourself noted no one really doubts the older brothers confession. And yet despite clearly being a pretty twisted up borderline sociopath himself he's managed to build a highly respectable image for himself. That's pretty much the definition of an excellent liar and false self image presenter. Which makes anything he told Coulson very suspect.

The other thing to remember is that generally, in fiction as in life, unless someone is born with a serious mental issue or other fictional explanation people don't start out evil. Ward obviously went through such a transformation, but the question is when and where. For me it has to be the collage incident. It's the first time he makes a decision of morally dubious nature that can't be chalked up to the immediate pressures of ongoing abuse from his family.

That's not to say the earlier Well incident wasn't important. The staff didn't drag that up by accident. In fact i'm inclined to believe he mostly told the truth to skye when he said that the well incident was a tipping point for him. I think that was the point at which he stopped being passive and started actively resisting, and that culminated in him finally going completely off the rails and plotting full blown arson/murder combo.

[LaZodiac]

I'm not sure Ward killed his family. The only context we have for that is the news reports, which are notoriously plot convenient. His motives are still somewhat obscured, it's difficult to take anything about him on face value.

Well lets be honest here. What we know is that Ward tried to kill them all with a house fire once, but they where all out of the house at the time, or escaped in time. So it seems pretty likely that Ward did it this time to.

This time he killed them, made it look like his brother did it to "prove" that he's not bad...and then set the house on fire again because this time he knows he can't escape.

Now, weather he's the one that pulled the trigger on his parents or he forced his brother into it, and same with the suicide part of it, we don't know. That's the part we're not sure on. But I think it's safe to say that he's responsible for it, no matter who actually fired the gun.

[Kitten Champion]

Oh, I don't think someone else killed them. I think it's possible they aren't dead in the first place and he faked that whole thing as a part of whatever he's doing.

[LaZodiac]

Oh, I don't think someone else killed them. I think it's possible they aren't dead in the first place and he faked that whole thing as a part of whatever he's doing.

Then who are the three corpses that resemble them meant to be? Because I'm pretty sure they said they found the bodies.

[Kitten Champion]

Then who are the three corpses that resemble them meant to be? Because I'm pretty sure they said they found the bodies.

I'm fairly convinced of Ward's ability to manufacture corpses as he needs them. Faking three deaths wouldn't be all that hard for someone of his skill and craziness.

[Carl]

He might be able to create bodies, but he can't create the DNA. And he doesn't at the time have the apparent HYDRA help he'd need to play with the lab results.

[Kitten Champion]

He might be able to create bodies, but he can't create the DNA. And he doesn't at the time have the apparent HYDRA help he'd need to play with the lab results.

To my knowledge not everyone has their DNA registered, and that's assuming the writers consider that.

Still, I'm only saying its a possibility, one that squares with genre conventions.

[Carl]

I'd assume that the older brother at least is on record due to his status as a senator in case of kidnapping and such like.

[Joran]

I don't know if it'll tie in so directly as that, but the basic theory seems pretty sound based on the direction of the show thus far.

At the start of the season I wouldn't have credited that they'd really introduce Inhumans four years before the movie (which was generally assumed to be coming eventually based of rumours ) - or do anything as paradigm altering as that. However, it makes a great deal of sense from a franchise perspective to want them sooner than later. It also gives them a slight edge in explaining where Quicksilver and The Scarlet Witch come from, since re-imagining them as Inhumans is really their best option short of just saying "they have powers, because why not?"

If it worked for Absorbing Man and Scorch, it can work for the Twins!

[Androgeus]

To my knowledge not everyone has their DNA registered, and that's assuming the writers consider that.

Still, I'm only saying its a possibility, one that squares with genre conventions.

Dental records are still a thing right?

[Kitten Champion]

If it worked for Absorbing Man and Scorch, it can work for the Twins!

Speaking of, they should really consider getting their own Gleek.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Spoiler: Mac

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It all depends on what Coulson meant by "that isn't Mac". It could literally mean that the city made a clone of Mac, and the real Mac never came back up. Or that Mac was irrevocably possessed, and was effectively dead as soon as he touched the ground. Or it could have been a lie to help Fitz do what, in Coulson's judgement, needed to be done.

There's no way to know what Mac's status is.

Spoiler: More Mac

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One of those can be discarded: it is doubtful that it could be a clone, since they pulled him back up the hole with his harness (I would imagine immediately upon hearing him screen, although it was done off-camera during commercials). A clone might have the same clothes built in, but it would not be able to get into the harness before Mac got pulled up. I think that the eyes going red suggests mind possession, although Coulson was in no position to tell if said possession was permanent or temporary.

Grey Wolf

[TheOldCrow]

fancy theories aside, we don't know that Skye her dad is an Inhuman. for all we know he's studied them and met his wife that way. She clearly must have been one of the special ones, what with having lived so long.. but there's no actual indication that he shares that same genetic peculiarity, other than that he can be quite an effective and brutal killer (but then, so can Ward who is 100% human as far as we know)

Good point. I don't remember him ever touching the obelisk.

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It all depends on what Coulson meant by "that isn't Mac". It could literally mean that the city made a clone of Mac, and the real Mac never came back up. Or that Mac was irrevocably possessed, and was effectively dead as soon as he touched the ground. Or it could have been a lie to help Fitz do what, in Coulson's judgement, needed to be done.

There's no way to know what Mac's status is.

Spoiler: Grrr Argh!

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Not to mention that sending someone down the hole to get Mack would probably just lead to two Agent Rage Monsters. I seriously doubt he's dead-- and really I hope he isn't permanently possessed or permanently trapped down there.

Edit: I got a bad feeling that when Whitehall's party shows up with the obelisk, they'll be able to control Mack through it.

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My guess is that she's in contact with Fury in some way. She can't tell Coulson, because Fury doesn't want Coulson to start looking to him for orders, but she is asking about why he's not doing what Fury would do so she can relay those answers to Fury if he asks.

Spoiler: Mack and Mockingbird

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Working for Fury is the first thing that springs to mind-- but then that was a plot point with May last season, and it strikes me as repetitive to go there again. Maybe it's something new. Another organization that wants their talents? Or Maria Hill, as a front for the Avengers? Got me. I just feel there is more of a twist lurking there.

[Flickerdart]

Spoiler: Bobbi's agenda

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Bobbi is Fury, under super deep cover.

[BRC]

I wonder if

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Skye's Dad, rather than being Inhuman, was a researcher/explorer who encountered the City and got turned into a Rage Monster, just like Mack.

Over time, the Rage thing wore off, and he was mostly in control of himself. However, it occasionally resurfaces.

Skye is Inhuman, through her Mom. Raina is Inhuman as well, which is why they needed Raina to access the temple (rather than having SkyeDad do it).

[TheOldCrow]

I wonder if

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Skye's Dad, rather than being Inhuman, was a researcher/explorer who encountered the City and got turned into a Rage Monster, just like Mack.

Over time, the Rage thing wore off, and he was mostly in control of himself. However, it occasionally resurfaces.

Skye is Inhuman, through her Mom. Raina is Inhuman as well, which is why they needed Raina to access the temple (rather than having SkyeDad do it).

Spoiler: Skye Dad gone bad

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I like that theory. It would explain his rages. But wouldn't he know the location of the city, then? He does seem to know a lot about the obelisk and the city; maybe he got the info at a Kree outpost somewhere that had similar defenses.

[BRC]

Spoiler: Skye Dad gone bad

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I like that theory. It would explain his rages. But wouldn't he know the location of the city, then? He does seem to know a lot about the obelisk and the city; maybe he got the info at a Kree outpost somewhere that had similar defenses.

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Who knows what sort of mental effects the Rage Machine had. It might have scrambled his memories of where the City was.

[Hytheter]

Just throwing this out there, but maybe he's prone to violent rages because his wife was horiffically murdered and his child was taken away.

[LaZodiac]

Just throwing this out there, but maybe he's prone to violent rages because his wife was horiffically murdered and his child was taken away.

That's the most likely, but due to his connection with the Inhumans a lot of people feel that his rage is a little...well, inhuman. Either way we'll find out!

[Felandria]

Omigawd, I love Bobbi.

It's almost depressing how good Palicki is in this show, because it just makes me think how awesome she would have been as She Hulk.

[theNater]

Spoiler: More Mac

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One of those can be discarded: it is doubtful that it could be a clone, since they pulled him back up the hole with his harness (I would imagine immediately upon hearing him screen, although it was done off-camera during commercials). A clone might have the same clothes built in, but it would not be able to get into the harness before Mac got pulled up. I think that the eyes going red suggests mind possession, although Coulson was in no position to tell if said possession was permanent or temporary.

Grey Wolf

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You're right; barring teleportation we can probably rule that out. Of course, we can't rule out teleportation, but it seems unlikely, what with the lack of foreshadowing for it.

Omigawd, I love Bobbi.

It's almost depressing how good Palicki is in this show, because it just makes me think how awesome she would have been as She Hulk.

I can't think of any good reason she can't play both parts. As far as I'm aware, Mockingbird and She-Hulk don't interact a huge amount.

[Hytheter]

I can't think of any good reason she can't play both parts.

How about "It'd be silly and potentially confusing to have two characters in the same movie universe played by the same actor even if they never interact"?

[LaZodiac]

How about "It'd be silly and potentially confusing to have two characters in the same movie universe played by the same actor even if they never interact"?

True. Though I'll note Vin plays both Groot AND Black Bolt. Though considering Groot is a CG tree and Black Bolt barely talks at all that's literally the most moot point in existence.

[grolim]

Doncha mean the most Groot point?

[Helanna]

Thoughts and observations from my Agents of Shield re-watch:

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Episode five opens with Raina apparently befriending Scorch before suddenly kidnapping him. My mom was shocked, and in her words, "Seriously, there's not an honest person on this show! Everyone's got an ulterior motive! I'm waiting for those two innocents on the plane to turn into vicious backstabbing killers!"

Speaking of, Fitz. Watching him hanging out and joking around with Ward is breaking my heart.

Watching Ward hanging out and joking around, though . . . he has such a cliched arc towards becoming part of the team. "Awww, look! The loner with a heart of gold really does care!" No wonder I was so blindsided, I just saw the direction the cliche was headed in and wrote it off, and then they completely pulled the rug out from under us. Also: "You lied to us, Skye. You betrayed us. If you want our trust back, you'll have to earn it." Brave words from a Hydra member, Ward. Worried that she's gonna steal your thunder? "Look Skye, it's not that you lied. It's just that only one of us can suddenly pull a shocking betrayal and I've already got it in the bag, so back off."

Also from Ward: In episode six, he's very concerned about Simmons' possible death by ejection from the plane. Yeah, sure would be tragic if someone were to dump her into the Atlantic, wouldn't it Ward? Seriously though, when talking with a distraught Skye, he says that all they can do is wait and be ready. Skye asks, "Ready for what?" He answers "For whatever we're called upon to do." So okay, apparently Ward straight up told us in episode six that he'd be okay with throwing Simmons into the ocean if he was ordered to do it. Wasn't expecting that to be such direct foreshadowing.

Doncha mean the most Groot point?

[theNater]

How about "It'd be silly and potentially confusing to have two characters in the same movie universe played by the same actor even if they never interact"?

Silly isn't inherently bad.

Assuming she'd be green when She-Hulk, who do you think will be confused?