PF Sorcerer help

[Almaseti]

I'm a little uncertain in my opt-fu, and have made a couple characters recently that I felt weren't very fun to play because they weren't very powerful compared to the rest of the group, so I'm looking for some advice on a character I'm building now. He's a 1st level human Sorc,

Spoiler: Backstory

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who used to be a bronze dragon before a group of someones killed him in an ambush and stole his hoard and he was brought back as a human by a druid with a reincarnate spell. His memories are a little fuzzy.

so I wanted him mechanically to be an electricity-based blaster with the bronze dragon bloodline. Does the playground have any recommendations about how to make this effective? Things I might want to try to get? I suppose I should also have a few tricks that would work when blasting electricity is a bad idea.

So far for feats I know I'm getting Spell Penetration, and maybe Improved Initiative, but I'm not really sure what I should do beyond that. For spells I'm getting Shocking Shield, Shocking Grasp, Jolt, Ghost Sound, Prestidigitation, Message and Detect Magic.

[olelia]

If you're going for raw POWAH. Fire is where it is at. Play a cross blooded Orc / Draconic Red Sorcerer. You can still be human by picking up racial heritage...or be a half-orc and bring the FIRE. You'll get a +2 per die from the bloodlines and then more fire on top of that from the half orc favored class bonus.

[torrasque666]

If you're going for raw POWAH. Fire is where it is at. Play a cross blooded Orc / Draconic Red Sorcerer. You can still be human by picking up racial heritage...or be a half-orc and bring the FIRE. You'll get a +2 per die from the bloodlines and then more fire on top of that from the half orc favored class bonus.

You really read none of that did you? You see "I want to be an electricity-based blaster" and respond with "Nah bro, be a half-orc and blow stuff up with FIRE instead." He has given a concept and asked for help with the concept. Respond to the request that was made.


To the OP: You don't really have to worry about SR at lower levels, so Spell Penetration could be put to better use as something else. Elemental Spell will be nice at higher levels, it'll fit with your theme of lightning as you can then turn EVERYTHING into lightning. And if you have a favorite 1st-level spell that isn't lightning, you can make it so by taking the Magical Knack trait. Or higher level ones. That fireball? Try Ball-Lighting.


Otherwise there's always Expanded Arcana. You get less spells than a Wizard does, but Expanded Arcana combined with a human's FC bonus can get you closer. And with a caster, even a blasty one, more spells=more options.

[olelia]

You really read none of that did you? You see "I want to be an electricity-based blaster" and respond with "Nah bro, be a half-orc and blow stuff up with FIRE instead." He has given a concept and asked for help with the concept. Respond to the request that was made.


To the OP: You don't really have to worry about SR at lower levels, so Spell Penetration could be put to better use as something else. Elemental Spell will be nice at higher levels, it'll fit with your theme of lightning as you can then turn EVERYTHING into lightning. And if you have a favorite 1st-level spell that isn't lightning, you can make it so by taking the Magical Knack trait. Or higher level ones. That fireball? Try Ball-Lighting.


Otherwise there's always Expanded Arcana. You get less spells than a Wizard does, but Expanded Arcana combined with a human's FC bonus can get you closer. And with a caster, even a blasty one, more spells=more options.

You really read none of that did you?

I'm a little uncertain in my opt-fu, and have made a couple characters recently that I felt weren't very fun to play because they weren't very powerful compared to the rest of the group

On a less condescending note. If you are going to play a blaster type sorcerer its good to pick up both Metamagic Master and Magical Lineage. This will let you take one spell and all metamagic applied against it drops by two. Generally, at that stage if you're going all out blasting you can start picking up metamagic feats. For example, at level one you could pick up maximize and reaching spell and this will give you a short range maxed out shocking grasp for the price of a 1st level spell slot. While you can keep the bronze dragon blood line if you want. It might be preferable to at least go cross blooded and take the Arcane bloodline as well. Then you can pick up a familiar, Compsognathusm, for example for an additional +4 initiative.

[torrasque666]

Yep, I misrecalled. Magical Lineage is the generic one, while Metamagic Master requires a specific region.

And just because there's the claim of "I'm uncertain in my op-fu" doesn't mean that what he is doing is bad, nor does it require what he has asked for as a theme be tossed out.

[olelia]

I'm curious at what point I said his build was bad. I believe I simply provided a fire-based build that, unless they are fighting a lot of fire resistant enemies, will consistently put out more damage due to static increases.

[torrasque666]

I'm curious at what point I said his build was bad. I believe I simply provided a fire-based build that, unless they are fighting a lot of fire resistant enemies, will consistently put out more damage due to static increases.

To be fair, your first post can come across as a bit "nah bro" style. Had it included anything along the lines of "Alternatively try..." or some sort of reference to the original post, it can come across as less "nah bro".

[Feint's End]

If you're going for raw POWAH. Fire is where it is at. Play a cross blooded Orc / Draconic Red Sorcerer. You can still be human by picking up racial heritage...or be a half-orc and bring the FIRE. You'll get a +2 per die from the bloodlines and then more fire on top of that from the half orc favored class bonus.

You do know you can just go x-blooded Primal Elemental / Draconic and the damage will be just as high? (well except for the favoured class bonus but electricity is resisted less so that's not that much of a drawback in my book)

[olelia]

You do know you can just go x-blooded Primal Elemental / Draconic and the damage will be just as high? (well except for the favoured class bonus but electricity is resisted less so that's not that much of a drawback in my book)

Since elemental spell doesn't change the type you could maintain all of the fire bonuses but do electricity. Of course, finding a DM to let that particular thing slide might be fun.

[torrasque666]

You do know you can just go x-blooded Primal Elemental / Draconic and the damage will be just as high? (well except for the favoured class bonus but electricity is resisted less so that's not that much of a drawback in my book)

I will sadly direct you to this relevant FAQ ruling: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9rai as well as remind that in PF FAQs are basically eratta and are actually treated as such.

[Feint's End]

Since elemental spell doesn't change the type you could maintain all of the fire bonuses but do electricity. Of course, finding a DM to let that particular thing slide might be fun.

Fair enough. It's a bit expensive though (+1 spell level on literally everything dmgy you cast) and maybe not what op is looking for. (Also it feels .... weird to do that)

[olelia]

Traditionally I see blasting sorcerers as more of mailmen. So, if you'd do the elemental spell trick you'd probably end up dumping everything into "scorching ray". It would stay current all the way to level 18 with intensified spell. The other spells would be mostly for either aoe or buffing.

Edit : Assuming you allow the extra dice feature of intensify to grant another scorching ray.

[Almaseti]

Magic Knack and eventually Metamagic Mastery sounds pretty nice actually, pairing that with Flaring Spell could be a fun way to debuff people. Though now I'm worried that it will increase the casting time so that I can't cast the spell and use it in the same round. The text just says it turns a standard into a full, so it shouldn't affect a swift, right?

Elemental Spell might be good later on, but I don't have that many spell slots to play with right now, so I think I'll table that for later. Either I'd need to expend feats (extend & Metamagic Mastery) or higher level spell slots to use fire spells as electrical ones.

[grarrrg]

Ypick up both Metamagic Master and Magical Lineage. This will let you take one spell and all metamagic applied against it drops by two....For example, at level one you could pick up maximize and reaching spell and this will give you a short range maxed out shocking grasp for the price of a 1st level spell slot.

Maximize is a +3, Reach is (at least) a +1.
That is still a net +2 after both Traits applied, and would require a 3rd level slot.

You do know you can just go x-blooded Primal Elemental / Draconic and the damage will be just as high? (well except for the favoured class bonus but electricity is resisted less so that's not that much of a drawback in my book)

Forget Primal, just go 'normal'-Elemental/Draconic.
Elemental Arcana, you pick an element (Electricity in this case):
"Whenever you cast a spell that deals energy damage, you can change the type of damage to match the type of your bloodline."
ALL SPELLS are now Electric-type and do not require using the Elemental Spell metamagic.


Finally, Metamagic Mastery is the "generic open license name", if you want to attempt this build for anything official, it is actually called Wayang Spellhunter (just check the URL of the d20pfsrd site).

[Raven777]

Maximize is a +3, Reach is (at least) a +1.
That is still a net +2 after both Traits applied, and would require a 3rd level slot.

I think he's applying the traits to each metamagic increase separately, so it becomes Maximize +1, Reach -1 (ignoring the FAQ). Of course, this is not how it works. I remind everyone that these traits apply to the total modified spell level. Also, the FAQ stipulates that these traits cannot bring metamagic level modifiers below 0.

[Dgrin]

May I suggest you to try Words of Power system? As far as I know, that's the best way to blast in Pathfinder.
If you're interested, take a look, for example, at Brewer's guide

[olelia]

I think he's applying the traits to each metamagic increase separately, so it becomes Maximize +1, Reach -1 (ignoring the FAQ). Of course, this is not how it works. I remind everyone that these traits apply to the total modified spell level. Also, the FAQ stipulates that these traits cannot bring metamagic level modifiers below 0.

I was unaware of the changes to magical lineage. At the very least Metamagic Master does not have such wording, yet. So it'd work out to 2nd level, which just means that instead of maximize to instead use empower.

[Dgrin]

I was unaware of the changes to magical lineage. At the very least Metamagic Master does not have such wording, yet. So it'd work out to 2nd level, which just means that instead of maximize to instead use empower.

Empowered Reach Shocking Grasp with that traits is still a 2nd level spell. Both traits contribute to the final level of the spell, not adjust every metamagic feat separately. But they are still crazily powerful and should imo be taken if you are concentrating on single spell

[grarrrg]

At the very least Metamagic Master does not have such wording, yet. So it'd work out to 2nd level, which just means that instead of maximize to instead use empower.

Um. Still no.
Errata or not, have you read the _actual words_ used?
Wayang Spellhunter:
"When you use the chosen spell with a metamagic feat, it uses up a spell slot one level lower than it normally would."

It does not 'reduce all metamagics adjustments by 1'.
It basically says 'is metamagic present? If yes > 1 slot lower'.
Doesn't matter how many metamagics you are applying, you get _1_ and only _1_ level drop.

Both traits together are a (at most) 2 level drop.

[olelia]

Um. Still no.
Errata or not, have you read the _actual words_ used?
Wayang Spellhunter:
"When you use the chosen spell with a metamagic feat, it uses up a spell slot one level lower than it normally would."

It does not 'reduce all metamagics adjustments by 1'.
It basically says 'is metamagic present? If yes > 1 slot lower'.
Doesn't matter how many metamagics you are applying, you get _1_ and only _1_ level drop.

Both traits together are a (at most) 2 level drop.

When I buy a sandwich I eat it. Strangely this happens each time I buy a sandwich.

[grarrrg]

When I buy a sandwich I eat it. Strangely this happens each time I buy a sandwich.

I'm going to have to assume that you really have nothing left to your argument, don't want to admit that you are wrong, and are therefore going for the Chewbacca Defense.

[Feint's End]

This feat is just poorly worded but by RAW it can mean one of two things (and I'm ignoring the fact that it wasn't intended this way ... The FAQ is still missing according to the d20pfsrd).

-For every metamagic feat applied to the spell decrease it's level by 1 (meaning you can get negative modifiers). Note that this also decreases the save dc.

-It applies only to a single metamagic feat (it seems to me this could be meant for that).

So yeah ... by RAW it works to actually decrease spell level (if there are enough +0 metamagic feats) however it clearly isn't RAI.

[Raven777]

*snap*

No. No no no no no. We are not using that argument. Not on my watch. Saying the feat is poorly worded is a concession we will not make, because that feat is not poorly worded. Wording is the last argument of someone grasping at straws.

Metamagic Master
Your ability to alter your spell of choice is greater than expected.

Choose: A spell of 3rd level or below.

Benefit: When you use the chosen spell with a metamagic feat, it uses up a spell slot one level lower than it normally would.

Metamagic doesn't "use spell slots". Metamagic increases "spell levels". The construct "it uses up a spell slot one level lower than it normally would" therefore obviously refers to the spell. C'mon. It's basic first grade grammar and basic game mechanics knowledge. It is also the way the community at large has used the feat since it's been printed in 2011, three years ago.

*unsnap*

[(Un)Inspired]

If the OP wants to build a blaster sorcerer and is willing to use Elemental spell I highly recommend Snowball.

Unlike Shocking Grasp it's got some range built into it.

Unlike Scorching Ray it's both 1st level and its sr:no

And it can stagger the target which is always fun.

If I was going to build a pathfinder blaster it's the spell I would center my build upon. Shame the system lacks Twin Spell.