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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Stupid observations

    Back in the old editions of D&D clerics could turn evil outsiders (demons) as well as undead. And the old fantasy convention almost present the forces of hell and undeath as if they were simese twins. I mean, the Book of Vile Darkness tells of how the Batezu crafted a machine with the purpose of freaking mass zombie production.

    But, I was thinking. Do Demons/Devils really get along with the undead? What if someone signs his soul away for power...and before he dies... he becomes a lich or vampire! Wouldn't the outsiders feel cheated by the lich/diabolist in question?

    I imagine that a whole lot of evil spellcasters become diabolists-then vampires! trying to exploit a loophole!

    -And thats why when in your next adventure, the PCs locate the vampire, only to find out that he is fighting of devils!
    Petition for the Giant to make more "The World" articles!

    He's a suave Amish cyborg who knows the secret of the alien invasion. She's a manipulative mute safe cracker with the power to see death. They fight crime!

    *facepalm*
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Stupid observations

    That's a pretty nice hook... But then I'm a sucker for stories that deal with demonic pacts and souls and such.

    You could have the players have to save and keep alive (or undead) a vampire to prevent the soul from being harvested by demons or devils for worse purposes. You could attach some special significance to the soul (such as the "dark soul" in the movie The Prophecy).

    It could also be a lead-in to adding a new character to the party or to replacing one that died. The party could need to keep the vampire or former vampire with them to be sure the soul doesn't fall into the wrong hands, creating a situation where an evil character and good party would be "stuck" with each other. It creates some nice roleplay opportunities.
    Proud Supporter of Cleric Rights

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Stupid observations

    Considering that devils are of the scheming kind, they'd propably lure the PC to go on a quest to restore a vampires former true form - a living beeing that could be easily killed (for violating the contract, see the small print ;) ). They could even provide essential details, items, information on sites for rituals and incantations and so on..

    Or perhaps soul and mind are two very differnt things. Your mind stays active and controls your Lich/vampire body, but your soul (life energy) is lost to the fiendish forces.
    Anyways, great story hook.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prophaniti View Post
    Why don't we debate about which flavor of icecream is better next? I say Chocolate, and anyone who disagrees is obviously not eating their icecream correctly.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Stupid observations

    Quote Originally Posted by HOO View Post
    Considering that devils are of the scheming kind, they'd propably lure the PC to go on a quest to restore a vampires former true form - a living beeing that could be easily killed (for violating the contract, see the small print ;) ). They could even provide essential details, items, information on sites for rituals and incantations and so on..

    Or perhaps soul and mind are two very differnt things. Your mind stays active and controls your Lich/vampire body, but your soul (life energy) is lost to the fiendish forces.
    Anyways, great story hook.
    I've wondered about this. Namely if the soul (the part of you that continues to exist after death) and your life energy (which a lot monsters outside the D&D fantasy world harvest. Even in kid's shows, KID SHOWS! Although I can't remember any at the time....) or the same thing. Metroids (for whom the Metroid series is named after) are alien parasites that drain life energy from living things and well, the Pirate lore from a scan in Metroid Prime tells it best:

    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Studios/Space Pirates
    Metroid dissection continues to provide more questions than answers. Our research teams have isolated the energy conduits that run from the invasive twin mandibles to the energy core in the creature's quadripartite nucleus, but the manner in which a Metroid actually extracts the life force from its prey remains an utter mystery. The victim does not lose blood or any other vital
    fluids, and yet the Metroid extracts energy: identifying this energy is our central problem. It takes no physical form, and yet without it, the victim dies. We will continue to research this matter, as the isolation of this life-giving essence could be the key to our ascendance.
    The thing is, life energy isn't a singular unit, so its unlikely that the "life force" that metroids drain are your actual soul (Also has drained life energy from and , and they not only survive, but can still kick the Linear guild's ass -twice, mind you- and suffer no lasting side-effects.) You lose it in small amounts when you trek through the negative energy plain or when you have a metroid raping your face. There is a spoiler from the SNES game "Super Metroid" below that points out something that happens at the climax of the game that illustrates my point about "life energy" further.

    Spoiler
    Show
    When the Final boss, Mother Brain uses her super beam on Samus and Samus becomes severely drained of energy, the big metroid (the one that hatched and saw Samus first, therefore thinking Samus is its "mother") will Attack Mother Brain and drain her life energy until her body becomes all gray and dead looking. It will then move over to Samus and replenish her energy. But halfway through this Mother Brain revives and starts attacking the Metroid! The Metroid refuses to leave Samus and takes all of Mother Brains attacks, until Samus' health bars are full. The Metroid then tries to attack Mother Brain again but eats one last attack-and dies. Samus, infused with Mother Brain's life energy, avenges the Metroid's death with her version of the super beam.

    Whats important in all of that? The Mother Brain apparently is sucked dry and takes on the unhealthy gray color of other metroid victims, and then she re-animates. Why? I don't know for sure, but I humbly suggest that her life energy wasn't completely drained by the Metroid, and she either had a "backup storage" of life energy (which would be unlikely as the space pirates don't know what "life energy" is and therefore couldn't develop such a device.) or she simply has some kind of slow circulation of life energy (perhaps because she is a cyborg computer thing whose organic components are none too natural either) therefore the Metroid believed she was dead and no god or fortune teller or 8-ball in the universe could have seen Mother Brain's sudden ressurection coming.


    All of this suggests that life energy is more akin to chi/ki/qi or some other relentlessly hard to study/quantify energy that the body just produces on the side, which is what you are losing when being "energy drained" as opposed to losing 1/1000 of your soul .... 1/750 of your soul.. 1/500 of your soul....

    But then again, as you said, maybe the "mind" and the "soul" are too different things. But I do wander what the implications of losing you "life energy" really are. I mean selling your "soul" has a certain amount of dread and foreboding (most importantly foreboding) attached to it. If the devils just want your "life energy" and they get it anyway when you become undead, then does this mean that Diabolists actively seek to find a vampire to bite them (if lichdom is out of their reach, because peroidically sucking school girl's blood risks being discovered and waking up in mid-day with a stake through your heart)?
    Last edited by Thoughtbot360; 2007-03-25 at 07:45 PM.
    Petition for the Giant to make more "The World" articles!

    He's a suave Amish cyborg who knows the secret of the alien invasion. She's a manipulative mute safe cracker with the power to see death. They fight crime!

    *facepalm*
    *facedesk*
    *facewall*



  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Stupid observations

    I would say that the Undead and Demons would get on quite well in most fantasy themed type stories. Only D&D really makes a significant distinction between them.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

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