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    Default Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Disciples of Tenser: A Guide to Tenser's Floating Disk utility

    It's a simple enough little spell. Wizards tend to be frail and small of stature, always in need of someone or something to carry the heavy things for them. So that's what they use it for. But it can be much more than that. It can be an extension of your very self, and a powerful one at that... if you know how to use it.

    First off, the Spell Itself:

    Spoiler: SRD spell description
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    Tenser's Floating Disk
    Evocation [Force]
    Level: Sor/Wiz 1
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Effect: 3-ft.-diameter disk of force
    Duration: 1 hour/level
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No

    You create a slightly concave, circular plane of force that follows you about and carries loads for you. The disk is 3 feet in diameter and 1 inch deep at its center. It can hold 100 pounds of weight per caster level. (If used to transport a liquid, its capacity is 2 gallons.) The disk floats approximately 3 feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you. The disk winks out of existence when the spell duration expires. The disk also winks out if you move beyond range or try to take the disk more than 3 feet away from the surface beneath it. When the disk winks out, whatever it was supporting falls to the surface beneath it.


    The spell is designed to help a character haul bulky things around for extended periods of time, but for a dedicated Disciple of Tenser (DoT for short), that is the least of it's miraculous powers. To harness the true awesome of this force-spell of force-spells, an aspiring DoT needs but a simple tool:

    DoT's bread and butter: The Talisman of the Disk, from p. 188 of the Magic Item Compendium.

    For a mere 500 gold, this held command activated treasure allows you to create a floating disk at caster level 3, plus additional carrying capacity for characters with strength-bonus items. The real kicker on this: you can do this at will. No charges per day, and most importantly: no limitation on how many disks you can have at a time. Still, keep a spare...

    Law's of the DoT: The mays, may-nots and maybes of the Floating Disk

    For all their awesome powers, DoT's are bound by the cosmic law of the mighty RAW. A mighty being known only as the "Doon-Jon Mah's Taa" may bend or break these laws to the DoT's favour... or may twist to the DoT's dismay. Therefore, a DoT is advised to be mindful of the following.

    Spoiler: The Rules of the Disk
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    1. "Ground" is a broad term in D&D, often used interchangably with "floor" and "surface". "Ground" can be made out of of anything, as the elemental plane of fire has "ground" made of compressed plates of ever-shifting flame, and DMG talks about "floors" made out of all kinds of materials (even walls of force). Judging by the "Standing in Tight Quarters" rule from page 30 of the DMG, the rules of lying prone, falling, and the descriptions of different form of ground for the purposes of the track skill, any surface that a creature can fight on, fall onto, lie prone on and/or leave tracks on on qualifies as "ground" for that creature.
    Bottomline: Defining "Ground" as anything other than "a given solid horizontal surface" results in a myriad of inconsistencies across different rule-sets.

    2. The extent to which a floating disk can be controlled based on the "otherwise directed" clause has been the topic of much debate. For the purposes of this mini-guide, I will be taking the conservative stance that the disk is straight up incapable of moving in any direction unless the DoT is moving in that direction, being otherwise limited to be stationary. "Maintain relative distance" and "Stay still" are basically the two commands it can execute .

    3. Conversely, the disk is impervious to being moved by anyone or anything baring the DoT's directions or movement, as it is explicitly stated to stay 3 ft off the ground and capable of maintaining a constant distance to the caster. The world's strongest ogre would at best sink into the ground trying to lift it and not even a commoner-railgun type effect could move it sideways.

    4. The disk's ability to overcome obstacles is not defined and must thusly be assumed to be minimal at best. The Disk could be expected to maneuver around a corner or tree as part of its ability to "follow/accompany", but it can not exert any physical force on external things, just as the disk itself can't be moved by external force. In short, the Disk is not a battering ram and will not break down any straight barrier hindering it from accompanying the DoT. Unless specifically told by the DoT, the disk will under no circumstances attempt any form of movement that it is not stated to be capable of performing, especially if that activity would cause it to "wink" out.

    5. When the disk moves, it does so instantaneously, with no delay to its movement or variability to the horizontal distance between it and the caster at any point in time. It is an active spell effect, it doesn't care about initiative.

    6. The disk is an Evocation (Force) effect, meaning it is not strictly defined as an object, but it does extend into the etheral plane and is immune to all damage. The only way to "destroy" it is via the use of specialized magic (e.g. dispelling/disjunction/forceward), or by meeting one the conditions that are stated to cause it to "wink out" (e.g. overburdening).


    The DoT's might: The secrets you're here to learn

    Trick 1: Disk Jumping

    This trick requires a single floating disk and was originally conceived by Sith_Happens.

    Step 1: Create your disk and direct it to remain still so you can hop onto it and stand proud.
    Step 2: Direct your disk to maintain a distance of 0 ft between itself and you. Specify that you mean distance on a 2-dimensional horizontal, if your Dungeon Master requires.
    Step 3: Jump off the disk in any desired direction. The disk will move to maintain the distance without delay, coming to be under your feet when you land.
    Step 4: Repeat step 3 until you have moved your speed for the round, having avoided all pressure plates and difficult terrain.

    Notes: This trick works based on how the disk maintains a perfect distance and the rules do not limit how many jump checks you can do as part of your movement for a round. Keep in mind that a DM may require a minimum jumping distance you need to clear for each jump (possible 1, 1.5, 3 or 5 ft) and that, unless you have at least 1 rank in jump, you must beat the jump DC by 5 or fall prone. Be ware of the DCs for standing jumps, as each jump is likely to count as such.

    Trick 2: Tenser's Table

    Your disk is nigh-indestructible and hovers 3 ft off the ground. Depending on your size, you should be able to stand, sit or lie prone underneath your disk; potentially gaining cover bonuses to AC and saves against certain attacks. In this it is essentially a miniature version of the Magic Item Compendium's "Overhead Shield" item's effect.

    If you're tiny or smaller size, the disk can provide total cover against attacks from above; e.g a Dragon doing a fly-by attack or catapult missiles.
    If you're small you should be able to stand under the disk without much trouble, gaining cover or possibly improved cover against attacks from above without penalty.
    If you're medium, you will likely have to fall prone (taking all associated penalties and benefits) in order to take cover under the disk, and simply gain regular cover. Adding more disks may well improve this cover.

    Notes: the mileage of this trick varies widely depending on combat scenario. As D&D does not have any rules that would allow one to translate damage into kinetic impact and thus weight for the purpose of the disk's limitation, no single attack from above should be able to make the disk wink out; but a sufficiently heavy enemy could simply provoke an AoO to enter your square and place its weight upon the disk as part of some action (e.g. grapple?). This is particularity bad of the enemy is big give enough to have Crush (Ex).

    Trick 3: Tenser's Carriage

    If you're travelling overland for long distances, some floating disks can really speed up your travel. We already know from trick 1 that it can let you ignore difficult terrain, but it can also increase your whole party's mobility.

    Step 1: Be the fastest member on your party, ideally without the need to sleep, eat, rest or take non-lethal damage. If not, at least be someone with a familiar capable of activating command word items (e.g. Raven), so they can do the lifting for you.
    Step 2: Create a number of disks for your party to sit/lounge upon. Hell, they could even pitch tents if they can board-over the gaps between disks.
    Step 3: Have the entire party travel at your speed. Casters can "rest" to regain spells as you cart them along towards your destination.

    Note: Every 3 hours of travel, you will need to remake the carriage. You may not be able to hustle, depending on what your DM deems to be your "normal speed"/round.

    Trick 4: Tenser Anchor

    You can use the Disk to anchor yourself against external forces trying to move you, or prevent something external from being moved. If you ever find yourself in need of standing in a Hurricane without risk of getting blown away, or want to stand at the bottom of a raging river for some reason, a disk or two (and maybe some means to tie yourself to them) can keep you where you are. Alternatively, place it in front of an a door that you don't want opened, and laugh as people push and push but are eventually forced to resort to breaking it down.

    Step 1: create a disk within your reach with the command of staying stationary.
    Step 2: hold into the disk with your hands, legs or with whatever aids you feel are appropriate.
    Step 3: hold on tight as the disk keeps you from being moved.

    or

    Step 1: determine the direction and manner in which any given thing might be about to move, but you don't want it to move
    Step 2: create a number of disks in contact with the thing in question, placing them so that the undesired movement would be stopped by the disk.
    Step 3: sit back as the thing you don't want to move in a certain way can't move that way due to unmovable force disks.

    Note: you may be able to command the disk to only move when you move in a certain direction, in which case you can potentially propell yourself forward while anchored to the disk, allowing you to move through rivers/hurricanes. Also, if the thing you don't want to move is a creature, see Tenser's prison below for more detail.

    Trick 5: Tenser's Hiccup

    Originally suggested by Auron3991. This simple trick relies upon holding an action to create a tenser's floating disk to hinder an enemy, usually when they're charging.

    Step 1: Ready an action to activate the talisman of the disk in response to an enemy charging at you or another party member within 30 ft of you.
    Step 2: When the enemy charges, activate the talisman to create a disk in their path.
    Step 3: The enemy's charge is interrupted, as there is now an "obstacle" in the charging character's path, meaning the charging prerequisites are no longer met.

    Notes: Charging is the most obvious enemy action to uses Tenser's Hiccup against, but it need not be the only one. Create the disk in the path of an enemy using the run-action to try and flee from battle. You may be able to create a disk to interrupt a Coup De Grace against an ally who is helpless, e.g. by creating the disk above their neck when it is about to be severed; although this is deep within DM-adjudication territory.

    Trick 6: Tenser's Tower

    This trick requires up to 10 Disks, meaning that with a talisman, it takes 1 minute to set up.

    Step 1: Create a Disk.
    Step 2: Create another disk atop of it; which works unless your DM is very limiting in his personal definition of "ground" and not allowing other solid surfaces a character can stand/lie/fight upon to qualify as such.
    Step 3: repeat step 2 until you have a tower of floating disks up to 30 ft high, which you should be able to climb with relative ease. Be ware that the bottom disk winks out with all the others if you try to go higher.
    Step 4 (optional): fight at range from atop your Tenser's Tower, moving about as with normal disk jumping, but with the advantage of standing atop a perfectly mobile 30 ft structure melee-enemies will have trouble climbing.

    Note: Should you find yourself in melee combat while atop your Tenser's Tower, you may well qualify for a +1 to attacks thanks to having the high ground (thanks to Demidos for pointing this out). This may give reason to make shorter Tenser's Tower in certain situations.

    Alos, you can get bonuses to spotting enemies in the distance for being higher up. Stronghold builder's guidebook lists a +1 spot bonus per 10 ft of height, measured at eye-level; and Stormwrack has rules for spotting things at large distances from a vantage point.




    Trick 7: Tenser's Bunker

    This trick combines Tenser's Tower and Tenser's Table for maximum defense. The basic idea is to create a bunker-like structure comprised of tenser's towers in a manner than either prevents or at least hinders enemy creatures in getting within melee range of you, or target you with ranged attacks from above. This trick can be very time consuming depending on how big of a Tenser's Bunker you want to create. Landbased small or smaller enemies will not be hindered by the Bunker, as they can simply walker under the disk. Sufficiently heavy enemies can break through by overburdening the disks with their weight, but this costs them actions and requires them to understand how the disks work (i.e. Spellcraft check).

    Step 1: Create a field of disks around yourself. Disk-to-disk proximity should be set at less than half the space occupied by any given creature you expect to fight (e.g. less than 2.5 ft for medium, less than 5 for large, etc).
    Step 2: Stack disks atop the disks composing the field, creating several Tenser's Towers. The inner-most towers should ideally be stacked at an inwards angle as to create a ceiling above yourself. Check with your DM as to what percentage of a disk needs to have a solid surface directly below it to determine stacking agle.
    Step 3: Continue to layer the disks until you are statisfied with the volume and structure of your tenser's bunker.
    Step 4a: Fight off the incoming enemy forces. Medium creatures will be subject to squeezing rules and have to crawl through the disks to get to you, slowing them considerably and giving you a significant advantage. Large or larger enemies will simply be incapable of getting into melee range, forcing them to use ranged attack methods. Flying enemies of any varieties will have to either land or at drop to about 30 ft of altitiude to have any chance of getting to you, as the layers of disks above block all line of effect.

    SPECIAL STEP: It is quite possible that your tenser's bunker need not be stationary. If your DM has no issue with Disks "accompanying" while in front of you, rather than only behind or on level with you, you can move the Bunker with you as you wade into battle. Think of it as pushing a shopping cart rather than dragging one behind you. I have found no rule text that either supports or opposes this; but I did find a relevant image: Dragon Magazine issue 330 on page 50. I can't post the image, but it contains a wizard walking while having a loot-laden floating disk hovering in front of himself. It's not much, but pointing at a Dragon Magazine and going "but the wizard in the picture is doing it" is better than nothing.



    Trick 8: Tenser's Prison

    This is the inverse of Tenser's Bunker. You have brought the large-sized enemy down, but rather than finishing him off, you want to talk to them after they get up. Sadly, you don't have any manacles or things of the sort. Luckily, you have a few minutes to make a make-shift force-cage of sorts.

    Step 1: Create a circle of Floating disks neatly packed around your helpless large or larger enemy.
    Step 2: Stack disks at an inward angle to create a dome/cone of disks above your enemy. Make this as steep an angle as possible, to hopefully prevent the enemy from getting up. As living creatures can not constitute as "ground", you can hopefully stack some disks directly atop the enemy for minimum time expenditure and maximum movement restriction.
    Step 3: The enemy wakes up but can not escape. Occupying a 10 ft cube, he can not squeeze through any spaces less than 5-ft wide. He can not force the disk's upwards or sideways, so it is impossible to break out that way. His only means of escape is to get the disks to wink out by placing enough weight on them, but this may well be impossible depending on how how he is lying and how constrained he is by the disks.
    Step 4: If you've done everything right, you should have around 2 hours to talk to your completely immobilized enemy, or do whatever else you want to do.

    Note: It is unlikely, but you may find yourself in a scenario where Tenser's Prison only requires a single disk and you can thus use it in combat. If a large enemy falls prone for any reason, and the central portion of his body is lying flat and is less than 3 but more than 2 ft thick, creating a single disk over this central body portion may be enough to keep him from getting up or even crawling away. Not likely at all, and very DM-dependent, but something to keep in mind.
    Also, theoretically, Tenser's Prison can contain large or larger incorporeal enemies. This requires creating a layer of disks underneath the enemy (or moving the enemy onto the disk somehow) and then creating the prison around him as normal. Being a large creature, and being normally affected by force effects, it should not be able to escape any better than a corporeal large enemy in a tenser's prison. I do, however, severely doubt that this will ever be an option anywhere; for obvious reasons.

    Trick 9: Tenser's Feather (disclaimer: this semi-cheesy trick might be considered broken.)

    Tenser's Floating Disk floats. It has to stay 3 ft off the ground at all times, but it is nonetheless in a constant state of levitation. No matter how much you load onto the disk (up to its self-set limit), none of that weight is transferred onto the "ground" beneath it. I.e. anything placed upon the disk is weightless in relation to the ground beneath the disk. As it is nigh impossible to define "ground" as anything other than "solid horizontal surface" without causing a bunch of discrepancies in the rules, this opens up the door to the cheesiest of the DoT's powers. On the simple side of things, you can use Disk jumping to cross the thinnest of ice or ignore any pittrap, but with the tiniest bit of supplemental magic, you've got yourself a power to be reconned with.

    Step 1: Take a thin sheet of solid but ideally durable material, 3 ft in diamater, ideally less than 5 lb in weight.
    Step 2: Use any given low-level effect that allows you to move about objects from a distance and lift the sheet up to float horizontally in mid-air. Magehand works well, Unseen Servant is a good upgrade.
    Step 3: Create your disk above the airborne 3-ft sheet of solid material, possible thanks to "being able to support weight" never being mentioned as a prerequisite for "ground".
    Step 4: Climb onto your disk. As your weight is placed upon the disk but the disk places no weight upon the sheet, the sheet remains aloft as per the stipulations of the effect you're using to move it about.
    Step 5: Use the Mage Hand type effect to move about the sheet, thusly the disk and therefore yourself. Enjoy slow but cheap perfect maneuverability flight.

    Note: With a measure of ingenuity, it might well be possible to combine Tenser's Feather with any of the other tricks for added benefit.

    Trick 10: Tenser's Probe

    The Tenser's Probe is simply a disk that the Disciple keeps a choice number of feat ahead of him as he moves through a precarious area. This straight-forward naturally trick relies on the DM agreeing that the Disk can accompany while maintaining it's distance ahead of the Disciple. The benefits are as follows:

    1. Detect anti-magic fields and false floors. If the disk winks out for no discernable reason, it is safe to assume that either a) the disk has just entered an anti-magic field, or b) the floor ahead is illusiory. In either case, more careful investigation is warranted.
    2. Trigger traps. Certain traps may be triggered by the proximity, motion or magical aura of the disk, and thus go off while the Disciple is (hopefully) out of range. If the Disciple wishes to trigger traps that only respond to (living) creatures, they could do so by e.g. knocking a small animal like a rat unconscious and placing it on the disk as bait. Also, if the Disciple wishes to address trip-wires and pressure plates as well, throwing a net with weights at its corners over the disk so that the weights drag on the floor would work.
    Last edited by Jowgen; 2016-09-01 at 09:12 PM.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Very cool tricks!

    Personally, I wouldn't allow the tower tricks, as I don't classify another disk as 'ground', and I don't consider myself a particularly strict RAW DM. Still, in this case it seems to me that ground means a surface that you walk on, and not some surface that one happens to be standing on - regardless of size/diameter. In my point of view, this would be excessive lenience on the part of the DM to allow, but hey, to each his own.

    I don't have any or my own to add at the moment, but I'm sure that there are plenty more nifty tricks.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    What does it mean for something to be the ground?
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    What does it mean for something to be the ground?
    Well, since ground is not a term defined by the game, so we have to assume that the the word's definition is the real world's, as in, "the surface of the earth, the soil that is on or under the surface of the earth" according to Merriam-Webster. Of course, you could say that a floating disk could metaphorically be the ground, but that's very subjective whether that should be the basis for a game ruling.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Ravens, with their power of speech, can activate command-word items. So give your Talisman of the Disk to your raven familiar and have it make a floating disk for you. It will follow the raven around wherever it flies. Now simply sit on top of the disk and enjoy your free movement while your familiar chauffeurs you around at its 40-foot flight speed.

    For even better results, use an imp or quasit familiar--they have a flight speed of 50 feet with perfect maneuverability, and they can turn invisible at will, so nobody will be able to see who's controlling the disk.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_of_Void View Post
    Well, since ground is not a term defined by the game, so we have to assume that the the word's definition is the real world's, as in, "the surface of the earth, the soil that is on or under the surface of the earth" according to Merriam-Webster. Of course, you could say that a floating disk could metaphorically be the ground, but that's very subjective whether that should be the basis for a game ruling.
    What if the game you're playing in doesn't take place on earth?

    Does the definition of ground change depending on what planet someone is on? How do we arrive at the new definition?
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    I wonder... what would happen if you use this spell on the plane of air?
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    What if the game you're playing in doesn't take place on earth?

    Does the definition of ground change depending on what planet someone is on? How do we arrive at the new definition?
    Lowercase-E "earth", not Planet Earth.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Lowercase-E "earth", not Planet Earth.
    In that case you can't cast it on the first story of a house that doesn't have a dirt floor? That doesn't seem right to me.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    I totally want to make a Tenser's Tower Mage, as i have DM who would probably allow it because it is silly. Then ill have my Raven familiar tow me around as i nuke everything from my mobile mages tower cackling madly. This is gonna be fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    In that case you can't cast it on the first story of a house that doesn't have a dirt floor? That doesn't seem right to me.
    And this is a valid point, can i not have my disc follow me up a staircase in a fortress or in the Inn? Too strict a reading on ground will cause some serious unintended consequences.
    Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2014-11-29 at 11:53 AM.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Hold action, cast Tenser's Disk in response to melee brute's charge attempt. This depends on your DM, but suddenly running into 100 pounds of resistance concentrated in a 1 inch thick section during a charge tends to have a way of messing with your day.
    Last edited by Auron3991; 2014-11-29 at 12:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    I would probably dictate the "ground" for this spell to be matter in a solid state at least as wide as the disc. This would enable it to float over the surface of loose sand/snow (and over floors, stairs, roofs) , but eliminate the possibility of it floating over force effects.
    Hmm, seem to have left the last letter out of my name I wonder if I can change that somehow...

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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarlek Flamehai View Post
    I would probably dictate the "ground" for this spell to be matter in a solid state at least as wide as the disc. This would enable it to float over the surface of loose sand/snow (and over floors, stairs, roofs) , but eliminate the possibility of it floating over force effects.
    Doesn't your definition allow for disks to be evoked onto vertical surfaces?
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    -scrubbed-
    Last edited by Jowgen; 2014-11-30 at 01:47 PM.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    I have up-dated the section on "ground" with the finding from my most recent look into the matter.

    Bunch of other changes have also been made, listed in the OP's changelog
    Last edited by Jowgen; 2014-12-19 at 11:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Frankly, I've seen Tenser's Floating Disk used as a means to carry its caster several times in my career, as the spell doesn't specifically state you don't have to be mobile for the disk to move. You can direct it to move on command, and it will carry you horizontally wherever you wish to go for the duration. Don't need a familiar to do that for you.

    Read it over again. Yeah, unless otherwise specified it stays close, yada yada. I've had a few DMs who let us ride these things many places. It's not like it's any more broken when used like this.

    Even a strict DM would find it difficult to argue that you can direct it to carriage you wherever you wish within the limits of the spell.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    I dont think you can stack them on top of one another: "3 feet above the ground at all times" means you can't go any higher. So I don't think the tower and prison would necessarily work (plus they would take a lot of actions to build anyway.). Some of the other stuff, like readying an action to obstruct someone's charge, I think should be okay though. (That wouldn't be an auto-fail though, because Jumping over your disc doesn't need a separate action.)

    For interrupting a CDG, you would at most give your ally cover.


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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Imprisoning a prone enemy with a single disk above his chest wouldn't work, since that square of space is occupied, and thus conjurations can't be targeted there.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
    Well, maybe if your DM takes a less strict reading of "open location", reading it merely as a repeat of the "can't telefrag" rule from before.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Well, floating disk is an evocation so there's a bit of a gray area there.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBrassDuke View Post
    Frankly, I've seen Tenser's Floating Disk used as a means to carry its caster several times in my career, as the spell doesn't specifically state you don't have to be mobile for the disk to move. You can direct it to move on command, and it will carry you horizontally wherever you wish to go for the duration. Don't need a familiar to do that for you.

    Read it over again. Yeah, unless otherwise specified it stays close, yada yada. I've had a few DMs who let us ride these things many places. It's not like it's any more broken when used like this.

    Even a strict DM would find it difficult to argue that you can direct it to carriage you wherever you wish within the limits of the spell.
    It's one of those frequent debate things, so for this guide I went with the most conservative option, so that everything in here would fly at most tables.

    I dont think you can stack them on top of one another: "3 feet above the ground at all times" means you can't go any higher. So I don't think the tower and prison would necessarily work (plus they would take a lot of actions to build anyway.). Some of the other stuff, like readying an action to obstruct someone's charge, I think should be okay though. (That wouldn't be an auto-fail though, because Jumping over your disc doesn't need a separate action.)

    For interrupting a CDG, you would at most give your ally cover.
    Whether you can stack them hinges on the definition of "ground". There is no way to define "ground" in the context of the rules in a way that would not permit disk-stacking.

    I talk about this under the first point of the "Rules of the Disk" spoiler. "Ground", "floor" and "surface" are often used interchangeably (even in Floating Disk's spell description), and there is a lot of rules text that deals with things related to ground/floor/surface; including but not limited to: Standing in Tight Quarters (DMG p 30), rules of Lying Prone, rules for falling, and the rules for tracking. When taking all of this together, the only way for the rules to function in a coherent non-disfunctional manner is if one defines "ground" as any surface that a creature can fight on, fall onto, lie prone on and/or be tracked over qualifies as "ground" for that creature.

    As for interrupting a CDG, I agree that it's not really effective, although in some circumstances or with some permissive DM's it might see use. *shrug*

    Imprisoning a prone enemy with a single disk above his chest wouldn't work, since that square of space is occupied, and thus conjurations can't be targeted there.

    Well, maybe if your DM takes a less strict reading of "open location", reading it merely as a repeat of the "can't telefrag" rule from before.
    As Psyren said, floating Disk is an evocation. Even if creating it in an opposing creature's space is off limits, nothing stops you from directing it there after the fact while the creature is helpless.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    But the fact that there is no game definition for "ground" means the GM has to define it. They could just as easily reject your particular interpretation as accept it, and several of the tricks here hinge on that ruling going your way.


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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    But the fact that there is no game definition for "ground" means the GM has to define it. They could just as easily reject your particular interpretation as accept it, and several of the tricks here hinge on that ruling going your way.
    This is the problem I see. When something isn't clearly outlined in game it's hard to tell how a DM is gonna rule on it.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jowgen View Post
    It's one of those frequent debate things, so for this guide I went with the most conservative option, so that everything in here would fly at most tables.
    Fair enough, but I'm sure it should fly at any table. There's really nothing to debate by RAW.
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post

    But the fact that there is no game definition for "ground" means the GM has to define it. They could just as easily reject your particular interpretation as accept it, and several of the tricks here hinge on that ruling going your way.
    This is the problem I see. When something isn't clearly outlined in game it's hard to tell how a DM is gonna rule on it.

    Building a combat strategy on a ruling that you can't count on is risky. Risky Business. Tom Cruise.
    It is a grey area, but I think a very well-arguable one. At the simplest level, the definition of the Prone condition is "A prone creature is lying flat on the ground", so if the DM were to rule that the surface of a disk doesn't qualify as "ground", then it would be impossible to lie prone on it. There are a myriad of dysfunctions like this that one could point to to argue for disk-stacking.

    Obviously, a DM can simply say "Don't care, not allowing you to do that"; but that applies to literally everything in the game.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jowgen View Post
    It is a grey area, but I think a very well-arguable one. At the simplest level, the definition of the Prone condition is "A prone creature is lying flat on the ground", so if the DM were to rule that the surface of a disk doesn't qualify as "ground", then it would be impossible to lie prone on it. There are a myriad of dysfunctions like this that one could point to to argue for disk-stacking.
    Amusingly enough, the spell says nothing about being able to lie prone on it. So your hypothetical DM might say "By Jove, you're absolutely right! You can never lie down on your floating disk ever again! Next!"

    (And actually, considering that it is 3ft. in diameter, lying prone on it would at the very least - for a medium creature anyway - be pretty uncomfortable.)


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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    A few general-purpose uses for the spell come to my mind, based on its ability to store 2 gallons of liquid or powder. Importantly, the disk "floats horizontally" and "remains level". Thus, you have a broad, shallow tray that you can take over the roughest terrain without spilling a drop. You can dump the contents of the tray at any time simply by ordering to go up (it rises to 3 ft and then vanishes).

    * Minor creation is infamous for its ability to produce gallons of expensive poisons. A disk can serve as a receptacle and spill-proof delivery method for the poison. Command the disk to enter an enemy's square and go straight up. It winks out, dumping the poison in their square.
    * Likewise you can use it as a delivery mechanism for 2 gallons of acid, dust of sneezing and choking, burning oil, or any other unpleasant substance, using the same method described above. Water to acid can get you lots of cheap acid.
    * Pour water into it and you have the druid focus for the scrying spell. Make it holy water instead and that's the cleric focus. Make it 1,000 gp of quicksilver, and perhaps you could cajole your DM into letting that count for the arcane focus requirement (it's not 2x4, but the area of a 3-ft disk is actually larger than that of a 2x4 rectangle. Quicksilver is not silver, but it is reflective and legend ascribes magical properties to it, so it could be a reasonable substitute).
    * Pour black sand into it and stand on it if you are a necropolitan. If you have Medium or smaller undead under your command and they are injured, order them to stand on it. Enjoy your free fast healing. If you have prisoners who need to go away permanently, bind them up and prop them on that sand. In a few minutes you'll have lots of extra black sand, plus there's no body to arouse uncomfortable questions or be raised from the dead later.
    * Use it as a portable light source filled with flaming oil or pitch, or just a stack of firewood, to have light in a dungeon while keeping your hands free. Doubles as a way to set a square on fire in an emergency. Conveniently, you can send the light source ahead of you out to close range to safely extend your range of vision.

    Other general uses that exploit its remote control nature:
    * With celerity + tenser's floating disk, you insert a safe landing platform when allies are in the act of falling into one of the classic pit-trap-with-poisoned-spikes. Falling damage may still be in order but it's something at least.
    * Use it to block a door. It is made of force and is absolutely unmovable by external forces, so if lodged against a door it will 100% certain prevent that door from being opened unless the combined weight of the door plus whoever is trying to push it open exceeds the carry capacity of the disk.
    * Use multiple disks during combat to tactically position objects that have silence, darkness, fire seeds, or similar effects placed on them. Enemies may try to grab these objects and use them against you -- fire trap, sepia snake sigil, and glyph of warding say hello.
    * Place a portable hole or enveloping pit on it, put a hatch over the hole, and you have a mobile foxhole that party members can hide in or use as a sniping position.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Tenser's Feather is just brilliant! All these years of D&D and finally someone found how to make a probably rules-legal perfect flight from level 1!
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    Default Re: Disciple of Tenser: A Guide to Maximum Tenser's Floating Disk Utility

    Using the interpretation of the disk's movement capabilities wrt the caster presented in this thread, one could still use the birdcage-travel option.

    Most straight-forward method would be to construct a device which rests on the disk, but holds you in place a foot or more away from it (a well-balanced platform with a good counter-weight for you that extends beyond the disk's radius would work, just so long as you're standing or sitting without the disk beneath you).

    While you are 1 or more feet away from the disk, order it to approach you and maintain a distance of 0 ft.

    Its motion will push the platform or chair on which you're standing or sitting forward at the rate it moves forward.


    The alternative hinges on your ability to give your familiar the spell. I can't recall off hand if the standard share spells ability would cover this. But assuming you can make him "the caster" for purposes of the spell maintaining distance, you can do this with a simple birdcage on a 10 ft. pole. Hold it out and have your familiar order the disk to approach while your'e standing on it, holding the pole. You can even steer just by repositioning the birdcage relative to the disk.

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