Baldur's Gate: The Thread

[Winthur]

You lose a lot of damage output by not going for two weapons as a Kensai, though.

In BG1 with BG2 rules, two-weapon fighting style is pretty useless, you can't start off with *** to the style so you take massive THAC0 loss for the majority of the game and even if you could, +2 to THAC0 on your offhand weapon is pretty massive early on. Also, normal weapons break in BG1 and you don't have enough proficiency points to tag every weapon. If you hog, say, Varscona and Long Sword +1 on a single character that can't even use them properly, it's not particularly efficient in the early game.

Sure, one-weapon fighting style isn't efficient except maybe low level thieves, but Kensai is utterly gimped in BG1 since the game was meant for a pure Fighter so it's not like he has better options. By BG2, Mark can easily start working on his two-weapon fighting style proficiency.

Also, by late game, once GWW and many (Improved) Hastes are available, it's actually two-handed weapons that reign supreme for pure damage output. For instance, Ravager or Staff of the Ram Kensai is the definite way to max out the damage. By late game, I figure you only care for two-weapon fighting style for the off-hand weapon's intrinsics (for example, Defender of Easthaven for tanks [particularly Barbarians], Crom Faeyr for battle clerics).

[Cespenar]

Yeah, Crom Faeyr is IMHO 75% of the reason why dual wielding Kensai is viable in BG2.

[Morty]

Well, I stand corrected, I suppose. I won't claim to have that much knowledge of the inner workings of BG2. Speaking of Fighter kits, I continue to experiment with what might eventually become my modded kit. Predictably enough, it gets stronger in BG2. I'm considering restricting its use of helmets.

[Calemyr]

Personally, I've always favored single-weapon style. -2 AC and doubled crit range are very useful, while extra attacks (at penalties) just ups the damage potential.

[Winthur]

Personally, I've always favored single-weapon style. -2 AC and doubled crit range are very useful, while extra attacks (at penalties) just ups the damage potential.

The problem with single-weapon style's -2 AC is that you're essentially giving up on a shield (which more than compensates for the AC) or on an off-hand weapon which can give you useful intrinsics (Arbane's Short Sword), resistances (Defender of Easthaven) or stats (Crom, Angurvadal). And AC isn't even particularly important, especially not in BG2. The crit range isn't as noticable, I don't think, as a bonus APR or the typical bonus from swinging a 1d10 or even 1d12 sword.

I mean, it has some perks, but I doubt its application past early-mid game, and only on certain classes.

In fact, I consider it underpowered enough to consider playing it sometime for funsies.

[Sylthia]

In BG1 with BG2 rules, two-weapon fighting style is pretty useless, you can't start off with *** to the style so you take massive THAC0 loss for the majority of the game and even if you could, +2 to THAC0 on your offhand weapon is pretty massive early on. Also, normal weapons break in BG1 and you don't have enough proficiency points to tag every weapon. If you hog, say, Varscona and Long Sword +1 on a single character that can't even use them properly, it's not particularly efficient in the early game.

Sure, one-weapon fighting style isn't efficient except maybe low level thieves, but Kensai is utterly gimped in BG1 since the game was meant for a pure Fighter so it's not like he has better options. By BG2, Mark can easily start working on his two-weapon fighting style proficiency.

Also, by late game, once GWW and many (Improved) Hastes are available, it's actually two-handed weapons that reign supreme for pure damage output. For instance, Ravager or Staff of the Ram Kensai is the definite way to max out the damage. By late game, I figure you only care for two-weapon fighting style for the off-hand weapon's intrinsics (for example, Defender of Easthaven for tanks [particularly Barbarians], Crom Faeyr for battle clerics).

Do Rangers start with two dots or three in 2WF? One can always start sword and boarding until they have enough dots to duel wield properly, as well.

[Winthur]

Do Rangers start with two dots or three in 2WF? One can always start sword and boarding until they have enough dots to duel wield properly, as well.

2. And yes, except Kensai can't into shields.

[Morty]

So, there I was, battling shadows in the Temple Ruins... when suddenly, Neera's attempt at casting a magic missile summoned a pit fiend. Wild mages certainly spice up this game.

[LibraryOgre]

So, when I do go Dual-class as a druid, can I start picking up two-weapon style at that point? Keep my Grand Mastery of the Scimitar, and sink the two-weapon points in when it's going to help?

I can't remember how proficiencies work for dual-classers in IE, and never spent much time with BG2, EE or not.

[Sylthia]

So, when I do go Dual-class as a druid, can I start picking up two-weapon style at that point? Keep my Grand Mastery of the Scimitar, and sink the two-weapon points in when it's going to help?

I can't remember how proficiencies work for dual-classers in IE, and never spent much time with BG2, EE or not.

For Dual-Class, the proficiencies go inactive until you gain a higher level in your second class than your first class. So, if you dual to Fighter from Thief level 9, and had had a dot in Short Bow, you won't get it back until you hit Fighter level 10. Be careful not to pick up dots in weapon proficiencies you already had on your first class, since they don't stack.

The exact best place to Dual is a matter of opinion and exactly what sort of build you are going for.

[LibraryOgre]

For Dual-Class, the proficiencies go inactive until you gain a higher level in your second class than your first class. So, if you dual to Fighter from Thief level 9, and had had a dot in Short Bow, you won't get it back until you hit Fighter level 10. Be careful not to pick up dots in weapon proficiencies you already had on your first class, since they don't stack.

The exact best place to Dual is a matter of opinion and exactly what sort of build you are going for.

Right. I've been batting around what would be the best time (either 9th, when I get my 3rd +1 to hit and damage from Kensai and Grand mastery; 12th, when my speed factor and hit/damage bonuses level out, or 13th, when I get my next 1/2 attack), but I wanted to see if it was reasonable and prudent... and it seems like, as a druid who will eventually be Kensai/Druid, picking up club and/or dagger will be a good choice, and pumping more into two-weapon for when I am able to use my grand mastered scimitars again.

EDIT: And does anyone else think Sarevok was sorta ****ing with the assassins he sent after you in BG1? Since they'd have to provide proof of your death, and you turn to ash and dust the moment you're killed?

[Sylthia]

Right. I've been batting around what would be the best time (either 9th, when I get my 3rd +1 to hit and damage from Kensai and Grand mastery; 12th, when my speed factor and hit/damage bonuses level out, or 13th, when I get my next 1/2 attack), but I wanted to see if it was reasonable and prudent... and it seems like, as a druid who will eventually be Kensai/Druid, picking up club and/or dagger will be a good choice, and pumping more into two-weapon for when I am able to use my grand mastered scimitars again.

EDIT: And does anyone else think Sarevok was sorta ****ing with the assassins he sent after you in BG1? Since they'd have to provide proof of your death, and you turn to ash and dust the moment you're killed?

I'd recommend against putting points into Club. I don't think there are any decent Clubs in the game, or at least any that aren't outshined by something else.

[LibraryOgre]

I'd recommend against putting points into Club. I don't think there are any decent Clubs in the game, or at least any that aren't outshined by something else.

I'll look into it. Nice thing about a druid is that you get a fair number of weapon spells from the get-go.

[Sylthia]

I finally finished up Jaheira's side-quest chain, so I can retire her when I need more room in the party. I also Knocked out Keldorn's rather short side-quest after finishing the Seeing-Eye quest. I'd keep him around for a little bit, but he's already made it clear that he wants to drive a stake through Hexxat's heart.

I think I may go pick up Edwin and Korgan to start their quests next. I still have Jan around, until his quest decides to trigger. For some reason, whenever I'm waiting on 2-3 quests to start, they all want to trigger at once, and the NPCs aren't very patience when it comes to their pet quests.

[Winthur]

I'd recommend against putting points into Club. I don't think there are any decent Clubs in the game, or at least any that aren't outshined by something else.

There's a couple decent clubs in early SoA (Blackblood, Gnasher) and one pretty damn good one in ToB that's upgradable (Club of Detonation). Enough to beat the game, for sure. Rush the Trademeet questline to get the SoA pair. Dual-wielding Beastmasters, ho!

[Sylthia]

Well, Keldorn decided he couldn't wait to kill Hexxat anymore, right after I finished his quest. Good thing I had just saved.

Time to finish up all the Evil NPC side quests before my rep gets too high.

[Morty]

I installed Branwen's mod for BG2 and replaced Jaheira with her. Not bad, so far, if rather predictable.

[Sylthia]

I installed Branwen's mod for BG2 and replaced Jaheira with her. Not bad, so far, if rather predictable.

Predictable how so?

[Morty]

She's boisterous, boastful, direct, and talks about fighting, honour and Tempus a lot.

[LibraryOgre]

She's boisterous, boastful, direct, and talks about fighting, honour and Tempus a lot.

And Valkur's strapping buttocks?

[Morty]

Well, bugger. I had no idea the golem-guarded items in the D'Arnise keep disappear if you don't loot them before taking ownership of the keep. Guess I won't be completing the Flail of the Ages this playthrough.

[Sylthia]

Well, bugger. I had no idea the golem-guarded items in the D'Arnise keep disappear if you don't loot them before taking ownership of the keep. Guess I won't be completing the Flail of the Ages this playthrough.

I did not know that. You can probably Shadow-Keeper it in, though.

[Feytalist]

In this case, the correct answer would be: "previous saves".

Because you have loads of those, obviously.

[Pronounceable]

EDIT: And does anyone else think Sarevok was sorta ****ing with the assassins he sent after you in BG1? Since they'd have to provide proof of your death, and you turn to ash and dust the moment you're killed?

Emptyquoting for posterity.

[Seharvepernfan]

So, I'm gonna try an evil run, but I'm gonna leave my main character good so they can use twinkle. Are there any evil-only items that I'd be missing out on? I don't want to look up a full item list because I don't want to spoil anything, so really I'm just asking for a yes or no.

I'm playing a halforc fighter/thief, if it matters. Points into scimitar and sword'n'shield style, and probably darts next.

[Morty]

In this case, the correct answer would be: "previous saves".

Because you have loads of those, obviously.

I have a couple, but none of them before I took charge of the keep. Oh well. I'll just EEkeeper it in. The lack of XP from the golems will make it less of a cheat.

[Winthur]

So, I'm gonna try an evil run, but I'm gonna leave my main character good so they can use twinkle. Are there any evil-only items that I'd be missing out on? I don't want to look up a full item list because I don't want to spoil anything, so really I'm just asking for a yes or no.

I'm playing a halforc fighter/thief, if it matters. Points into scimitar and sword'n'shield style, and probably darts next.

Nah, not really, and by ToB you get Use Any Item so that you can, indeed, use any item in the game.

I'd normally have some reservations towards how suboptimal your idea is (there's better scimitars in the game, especially for a late-game thief), but you'll beat the game all the same, regardless, so have fun.

Also,

Spoiler: Regarding Drizzt's items

Show

You get them taken away from you sometime after you kill Drizzt unless you play with a certain mod that turns off the mage that takes them away. You can prevent this in an unmodded game in some ways, but it can be tricky.

[Morty]

Well, this is hardly ideal. Finishing the quest to retrieve Boo crashes the game rather badly.

[Seharvepernfan]

Nah, not really, and by ToB you get Use Any Item so that you can, indeed, use any item in the game.

I'd normally have some reservations towards how suboptimal your idea is (there's better scimitars in the game, especially for a late-game thief), but you'll beat the game all the same, regardless, so have fun.

Also,

Spoiler: Regarding Drizzt's items

Show

You get them taken away from you sometime after you kill Drizzt unless you play with a certain mod that turns off the mage that takes them away. You can prevent this in an unmodded game in some ways, but it can be tricky.

I was talking BG1, where frostbrand is probably the best thief weapon for attacking, and where twinkle would raise his AC through the roof. Plus, I'm under the impression that he can use thief skills while wearing Drizzts armor.

[Sylthia]

Well, it seems Jaheira gets so butt-hurt when I try to remove her from the party that she up and leaves permanently now. I completed her quest chain and got the Harper Pin. I intended to drop her off and complete all the NPC side quests. She was a contender for my final party line-up, but I just don't have room for her right now. Anyone know of a way to make her stay put like a good NPC like everyone else?