FSN: Unlimited Blade Works anime thread - ZeroRider was so much better

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Yeah, IMO Fate!Lancer doesn't hold a candle to Zero!Lancer in the attractiveness department.

Spoiler: Fate/Zero minor identity spoilers

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Of course, what this really means is that Ireland is the big winner.

[Pronounceable]

Bargain Bin Lancer was too much of a pretty boy to be handsome. Like Kojiro.

[Eldariel]

Spoiler: Episode 12

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The "date", well, it kinda disrupts the flow of the story but they had the good sense to keep it to 10 minutes and it sets up the next scene so it went about as well as possible. It's amusing to see Shirou be the tsundere in turn. Ultimately, Rin and Shirou work so well together that I can forgive a lot of senselessness. The central struggle of Rin trying to understand why Shirou can't really "have fun" (and being driven crazy by it) is handled here so it's not entirely pointless.

The barrier-story was IMHO an improvement over the VN version though the golems were kinda pointless. Archer had his Big Damn Hero-moment, and the scene flows quite well. It kinda makes sense too though Rin not detecting the bounded field is a bit of a "what the hell". Also what bus did they get into and what happened to the driver? In general, when did the rest of the people disappear without the trio noticing? Unexplained but not necessarily unexplainable. Strange, though.

Anyways, more Assassin and Kirei is always awesome. Sad about not seeing any of the other servants challenge Assassin though. The time for that has about passed. Berserker needs at least one more moment of awesome. Finally, Disillusion at the end is a nice throwback. I can get behind that.

[Prime32]

Spoiler: Episode 12

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Saber was great in the date scenes too. Just look at her puzzled reaction to taiyaki, or the way her ahoge sticks out through her helmet.

[-D-]

@Eldariel

Spoiler: Episode 12/13

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Yeah, the date scene was done amazingly well, watching UBW movie the relationship felt way, way more forced. Here they actually gave it time to show them talking/interacting over something other than just talking over the blade.

Although Rin not detecting the bounded field and Saber detecting it was a bit weird. I'm not sure how detectable are Bounded Fields. Rin mentions that Bloodfort Andromeda was sloppily made, perhaps Caster took more care? That or she was too focused on Shiro's Bounded field.

Holy hell, I never thought to be rooting for Kirei, but there it was. He was 100% Fate/Zero Badass. I love how he pummels a golem with his fist. Compared the UBW:The Movie where his death took like a second of animation. I like that they established him as Lancer's master as well.

Did Caster opened Assassin's chest in VN? I only kinda remember it mentioned in Carnival Phantasm, but never shown on screen.

Finally, what's Disillusion?

All in all, I'm happy, can't wait for next season!

[Eldariel]

Spoiler: Episode 12/13

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Yeah, the date scene was done amazingly well, watching UBW movie the relationship felt way, way more forced. Here they actually gave it time to show them talking/interacting over something other than just talking over the blade.

Although Rin not detecting the bounded field and Saber detecting it was a bit weird. I'm not sure how detectable are Bounded Fields. Rin mentions that Bloodfort Andromeda was sloppily made, perhaps Caster took more care? That or she was too focused on Shiro's Bounded field.

Holy hell, I never thought to be rooting for Kirei, but there it was. He was 100% Fate/Zero Badass. I love how he pummels a golem with his fist. Compared the UBW:The Movie where his death took like a second of animation. I like that they established him as Lancer's master as well.

Did Caster opened Assassin's chest in VN? I only kinda remember it mentioned in Carnival Phantasm, but never shown on screen.

Finally, what's Disillusion?

@-D-:

Spoiler

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@Bounded Field: There's some basis mentioned on it; apparently Shirou is naturally really talented at sensing magic through smell, as when he looks for the nodes of Bloodfort Andromeda. I don't remember exactly where it's from, but I'm almost 100% it's mentioned somewhere that Shirou has uncanny aptitude for sensing magic. Saber as a servant I'm not that surprised that she can sense something is off. Rin is the part I'm surprised by; she noticed Bloodfort Andromeda the second she entered the school yard. For this to make sense she has to be in a different world entirely, completely focused on Shirou's defect.

@Caster/Assassin: Yeah, I doublechecked and the Intermission is there. It's incidentally the same scene where it's mentioned that five servants, Berserker, Lancer, Rider, Archer and Saber have all attacked the mountain and been fought off by Assassin. Quote from the Visual Novel:

Spoiler: Spoiler tags in your spoiler tags...

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Assassin: "...But is it alright, Caster? I am not loyal to my master, but you are dishonest as well. Tonight's matter is a secret to your master, right?"

At that instant, Assassin's body explodes.
A thumping sound.
The curse that was put into his body upon summoning has exploded.
The trees sway.
Assassin is flung into the forest, his chest pierced from within by his own ribs.
His figure is like a bloomed flower.

Assassin: "Guh - geez. You are getting worse every day, Caster."
Caster: "-Quiet. If I have to tell you one more time, I will eliminate you before waiting five days."
Assassin: ""...Geez. They say women and mean people are unmanageable, but you have gone too far."

The flashy Servant gets up.
This Servant does not lose his elegance even if he shows his ribs or if his body is covered in blood.

Assassin: "Oh, don't glare at me like that. You are wasting your beautiful face, Caster. I know, everything is to be a secret from your Master, right? I will hide the fact that you caught Saber and that I am guarding this place.
It is a moving story. I wish that your caring spirit would reach him."
Caster: "-Assassin, you..."
Assassin: "I am just being a poor loser. I cannot attack you, so allow me to joke around like that.
-I will protect the gate. I will protect it no matter what. But where are you going? Do you not trust my protection?"

...And it continues more or less as in the animation. Minor differences, most importantly the curse is explained and it's explicitly mentioned that Assassin can't attack Caster. And of course, Assassin was flung into the forest.

@Disillusion: It's the name of the piece that plays at the end. More precisely, this.


EDIT: And yeah, Kirei is his own beastly self here. It makes me look forward to the animation of Kirei-route even more. Too bad it's just gonna be a short movie; chances are it'll be nothing epic even if it's made by Ufotable and it'll probably focus on the action out of necessity. Kirei is absolutely among my favorite Fate characters.

[-D-]

@Eladriel: I didn't play the VN (yet) so that info is much appreciated!

Spoiler: Bounded field

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Rin mentions that whoever made the Blood fort Andromeda (BFA) did a poor job concealing it. She says this job was by a noob or a mage that doesn't give a flying ****. And if Rider actually created BFA, she would undoubtedly go to great lengths to get Shinji exposed/killed. If Shinji put up the bounded field, then that's also self explanatory. Maybe Caster tried her best to conceal it from regular Mage senses like Rin's but not Servants or Shiro's nose.

Just a movie? I heard it was like a series? *shrug* I hope for a mini-series (or a long movie). The format would be perfect (IMO), not having to retread the things done in UBW, but focusing more on Sakura and other servants.

Anyway, If movie sells well enough, I don't doubt we'll see a series as well.

[Mathemagics]

@Eldariel

Spoiler: Episode 12/13

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Although Rin not detecting the bounded field and Saber detecting it was a bit weird. I'm not sure how detectable are Bounded Fields. Rin mentions that Bloodfort Andromeda was sloppily made, perhaps Caster took more care? That or she was too focused on Shiro's Bounded field.

Holy hell, I never thought to be rooting for Kirei, but there it was. He was 100% Fate/Zero Badass. I love how he pummels a golem with his fist. Compared the UBW:The Movie where his death took like a second of animation. I like that they established him as Lancer's master as well.

Spoiler: Lancer

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Technically they did not confirm that Kirei is Lancer's Master. They intentionally used highly ambiguous wording that could have applied to Lancer speaking to either Kirei or an anonymous offscreen character.

Spoiler

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Of course Kirei is Lancer's Master, yeah. But this still has yet to actually be revealed in the anime.

Spoiler: Bounded Field and Bloodfort Andromeda

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I think the difference in ability to detect here is related to the respective magical skill levels of the fields' creators. Caster is an incredibly powerful magus from the Age of Gods, and has a lot more knowledge of how to create such things, therefore likely giving her the ability to create something far more subtle in nature. Rider, while equally ancient, is not herself a magus (and she's also saddled with an incompetent idiot of a Master), which probably results in her bounded field being more easily detected.

As for Saber noticing it before Rin I would chalk that up to the fact that, being a Servant, Saber is far more sensitive and attuned to things of a similar spiritual/magical nature. She probably has some sort of automatic threshold of detection, even on a particularly insidious bounded field like the one Caster likely set up.

[Pronounceable]

^^^But episode 12 has already aired??
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+Very good episode. Date was done very well but it probably should've been shorter, it's a goldmine for gifs though (Saber failing to eat the fish thing is the single best gif the whole series produced so far).
+Taiga's "date" being a visit to Kerry's grave is mildly touching (and would've been pretty emotional if I hadn't read FZ and seen first hand how hard Kerry sucked in life).
+The bus scene is a new setting for the big event and not bad, except water effects are a bit too computerified. Also the change in location destroyed the thematic significance of Caster breaking through Shirou's homely boundary field but we got Archer badassery in exchange, so it's a net profit.
+Apparently Nasu was twittering as this episode aired on Typemoon's official twit like he did for first two. Some random internet dude was claiming Nasu twitted that

Spoiler: FZ spoilers

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Caster reappropriated the leftover boundary field used to hide previous Caster's beast so everything was all corrupty and misty and dark

which might just be bull. It's pretty cool if true though.
+Assassin got a lot of unflappable badass points (it's from an interlude). I approve.
+I was expecting Caster at the end to go in guns blazing and blow Kirei away immediately. I dunno why, as that'd be dumb, but that's what I always imagined Caster would do. But we got Kirei punching bones instead so it's not a big disappointment.
+Speaking of bones, Caster now has a whole RPGful of minions at her disposal. Bone Dogs, Bone Soldiers, Bone Archers, Bone Dinosaurs, Bone Waters, Assassin, Saber (bit of a power creep at the end). It's amusing.
+The ending montage showing everyone was nice.
+This Illusion is always great.

-I was expecting more roundedness from this adaptation though. I know FSN is entirely focused on Shirou but I wanted some new little bits away from him, not just interludes like Shinji's basement and Assassin's cardio. We've had very little new content: Rin vs Ilya, Ilya's bath (), Caster's flashback, some very stupid bits during Bloodfort, Taiga at graveyard, bus crash, church invasion and the final montage. They were usually good but don't amount to much roundedness. I am slightly disappoint. They could've thrown in some scenes for Ilya and Lancer. They definitely should have thrown in some Rider scenes because her getting spotlight in Fate route does not mean you can offhandedly bridge her in a standalone UBW anime.
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This Illusion is the original opening for VN and among the more memorable tracks. They sometimes write it Disillusion for (afaict) giggles.
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We need someone who claims UBW sucks to get some true Nasuey posting going in this thread. Or maybe a good old fashioned powerchat about how every 5th servant can totally beat their 4th counterpart.

[Mathemagics]

We need someone who claims UBW sucks to get some true Nasuey posting going in this thread. Or maybe a good old fashioned powerchat about how every 5th servant can totally beat their 4th counterpart.

Zero Berserker could probably beat FSN Berserker if he was allowed to poach some weapons off of Gilgamesh first... >.>

[-D-]

We need someone who claims UBW sucks to get some true Nasuey posting going in this thread.

Sure. Let me try... Hrrk.
"Shiro is dumb. He said people die when they are killed!"

Well, that didn't work. Not feeling it. Still, seeing Saber being so damn cute munching on that pretzel fish. I'm pretty much in agreement with Caster from this bit. BTW what does it mean she failed at eating it? The fish looked pretty eaten to me.

What's the difference between Reality Marble and Bounded field? They looked/behaved pretty similar to me.

[Mathemagics]

Sure. Let me try... Hrrk.
"Shiro is dumb. He said people die when they are killed!"

Well, that didn't work. Not feeling it. Still, seeing Saber being so damn cute munching on that pretzel fish. I'm pretty much in agreement with Caster from this bit. BTW what does it mean she failed at eating it? The fish looked pretty eaten to me.

What's the difference between Reality Marble and Bounded field? They looked/behaved pretty similar to me.

Carnival Phantasm Caster is best Caster.

And the biggest distinction between a reality marble and a bounded field is that a reality marble is the materialization and imposition of one's internal world (mind/will/memory/whatever) on the surrounding environment. A bounded field would be more akin to staking a claim on the surrounding area and then building it up to be favorable to you in some fashion. A reality marble would be more like air-lifting in your house and then just dropping it on a random spot.

[-D-]

Carnival Phantasm Caster is best Caster.

Actually, Carnival Phantasm _______ is the best _______. I kid, but most characters, especially Kotomine become so much more awesome (Kotomine begging everyone to keep the casualties low, because Church doesn't have money for cleanup; Do note that this was during a quiz show). I especially like Grail-Kun (Friendmaker!).

[Prime32]

What's the difference between Reality Marble and Bounded field? They looked/behaved pretty similar to me.

Bounded field = kekkai. It's a word that sometimes gets translated as "barrier", but it can also mean the area within it. It's a very general term, and not specific to the Nasuverse. The magical alarm system at the Emiya residence counts as one.

Reality Marble = koyuu kekkai, literally "innate bounded field", an extremely rare and powerful ability. As Mathemagic said, it overrides the laws of reality with those of your internal world, allowing you to do a single thing within it that would normally be impossible. Kind of like how esper powers work in A Certain Magical Index, if you're familiar with it.
The English name comes from an analogy of drawing from a bag filled with black and white marbles. A Marble Phantasm (an ability possessed by high-level nature spirits) lets you choose whether the marble you pull out is black or white. A Reality Marble causes any marble you pull out to be red.

Caster's bounded field looks like a Reality Marble simply because it's much more powerful and well-made than normal. Magi from the Age of Gods were hax.

[Pronounceable]

Reality Marble is a specific alternate reality with its own laws reflecting the owner's inner world that replaces the local universe. Boundary field is a regular mage spell that makes magical effects inside. And yes they're %100 same thing functionally.

There's also Marble Phantasm, which is a mix of the other two because Nasu just can't get enough of that magebabble. I can't decide if Nasu sucks or rocks.

[Prime32]

There's also Marble Phantasm, which is a mix of the other two because Nasu just can't get enough of that magebabble. I can't decide if Nasu sucks or rocks.

Marble Phantasm is more like having administrator access to Earth's Reality Marble, letting you reshape it however you want.
(In the Nasuverse Earth is a giant Reality Marble cast by Gaia over a barren lump of molten rock)

[Eldariel]

In short:
In the context of Nasuverse magecraft, Bounded fields refer to magical frameworks tied to objects or areas; generally they cover the object/area itself, an area around it or the area inside it. They're usually bound to some magical enchantment. That is, a bounded field is generally a carrier for some manner of an effect, be it detection, curse, concealment or whatever.

Also, the tidbit from Nasu actually explains a fair bit; it's not an explicit explanation since it doesn't come from the anime but it's a plausible one and a nice nod towards continuity.

Reality Marble is an ability rewrites reality. Generally it involves a bounded field (see: Ionioi Hetairoi, Unlimited Blade Works, Lair of the Beast King, TATARI, the Forest of Einnashe and many I'm no doubt forgetting) and the user then forces their own reality to replace the natural reality in that area - indeed, as Prime said, the Japanese name for it is "innate bounded field". Obviously, Gaia doesn't particularly like having parts of itself replaced by foreign worlds so counterforce tries to shut "deployed" (that is, reality marbles existing outside their user - Unlimited Blade Works and Lair of the Beast King are examples of things that can essentially exist endlessly inside their wielders) them down making maintaining one very straining but in essence, the wielder takes a piece of space, and overlays their own reality on top of the existing reality replacing that space for the duration of the reality marble. Indeed, other beings using reality marbles on Earth is apparently harmful for Gaia and essentially damages it.

Spoiler: Tsukihime Spoiler

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Shiki Tohno kills a part of Gaia in one route of Tsukihime. Being Gaia in Nasuverse is rough. Indeed, it does die eventually.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Disillusion vs. This Illusion; these names are used for different versions of the same track in the original soundtrack for FSN. That one, I believe, was Disillusion.

EDIT#2: So Bounded Fields and Reality Marbles are similar in the sense that Reality Marble is a kind of a Bounded Field. Which might both, answer and explain the original question.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Holy smokes.

I did not see that coming. Caster is total hax.

Also, not only does Saber make the best third wheel, but the part where she was nomming down sandwiches as Rin got her tsundere on.

Finally: Casterfight! Casterfight!

[DoctorFaust]

Some kind soul [/s] on reddit made this picture, and I thought some of you might find it funny.

And overall, this has been a pretty solid season. Not a huge fan of how Saber seems to be much more childish than she was in Zero, but that's probably a result of her having a Master that actually gives two ****s about her, and I don't have a lot of major gripes beyond that and wishing that some of the other Servants had gotten more screen time. Most surprisingly to me though, was that this stood up really well (in my opinion) as it's own thing, and not just as an adaptation.

[Pronounceable]

Bounded field

Reality Marble

Marble Phantasm

Bounded fields

We're approaching to a properly Nasuey thread at last. We should keep up the good work.
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Let's see what servants we got in this war, then judge how cool they are currently. While UBW assumes you know most of them from reading Fate, we'll stick with this anime only.
Saber: Unknown (at least not revealed so far but she's like Darth Vader, everyone knows who she is). She's both cool and cute (maybe even too cute), 4/5.
Archer: Unknown (there's been some small and large hints). He's awesome, 5/5.
Lancer: Cuchulainn. He seems cool but hasn't done much, 2/5.
Berserker: Unknown. He had only one appearance but it was a whole episode; not having an actual character can't be held against Berserkers so they get graded solely by their powers and prowess and he's got those in spades, 4/5.
Rider: Unknown, bridged. She didn't do anything, 1/5.
Caster: Medea. She's kicking ass and taking names all over the place, 5/5.
Assassin: Sasaki Kojirou. He's seriously cool, 5/5.

Therefore Caster>Archer>Assassin>Saber>Berserker>Lancer>>Rid er. This is my opinion and it's indisputable truth.
It'd change a lot if we threw in all the infos but that's no fair.
What would be fun is a comparison with FZ servants but that's a gasoline tank inside a flamethrower factory.Go for it.

[Eldariel]

I'd say based on Lancer cameos everywhere and the fight with Archer and Saber in the start, he ought to be placed way higher. He's ****ing awesome. Tho yeah, he needs even more screentime. This is the Lancer Route after all (well, Lancer/Caster/Assassin/Archer; this route actually highlights almost all the servants and gives them most of their development since Saber and Berserker have important episodes too). Only Rider gets really thrown under the bus.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Some kind soul [/s] on reddit made this picture, and I thought some of you might find it funny.

And overall, this has been a pretty solid season. Not a huge fan of how Saber seems to be much more childish than she was in Zero, but that's probably a result of her having a Master that actually gives two ****s about her, and I don't have a lot of major gripes beyond that and wishing that some of the other Servants had gotten more screen time. Most surprisingly to me though, was that this stood up really well (in my opinion) as it's own thing, and not just as an adaptation.

I think that the writers are trying to bring in shades of her character arc from Fate, which pretty much amounted to "learning to be a teenage girl in addition to the King of Knights", all dumb things about Fate aside. This stands to reason as she's an important character, even if technically secondary to Rin as the "heroine" in this version, so they might as well round her out as much as possible. Given how the Fate/Zero anime turned out, I'm just happy she's getting a character arc at all.

[DoctorFaust]

I'm just happy she's getting a character arc at all.

Spoiler: Fate/Zero

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I think my problem with her character arc is that, if my understanding of how her particular summoning works is right, about five minutes before she was summoned into the Fifth Holy Grail War, she Excaliblasted the Grail. She was a goddamn wreck at the end of Zero, having just destroyed the thing that she had been questing for most of her life, having had her ideals shat upon by Iskander, Kiri, and Gilgy, having had to, I think, kill one of her most loyal knights that had become insane because of her, and yet, five or ten days later, she is apparently completely fine. Like nothing that happened during the Fourth Holy Grail War mattered at all to the people that were part of it, besides giving Shirou fantasy-PTSD, for lack of a better phrase.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Spoiler: Fate/Zero

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I think my problem with her character arc is that, if my understanding of how her particular summoning works is right, about five minutes before she was summoned into the Fifth Holy Grail War, she Excaliblasted the Grail. She was a goddamn wreck at the end of Zero, having just destroyed the thing that she had been questing for most of her life, having had her ideals shat upon by Iskander, Kiri, and Gilgy, having had to, I think, kill one of her most loyal knights that had become insane because of her, and yet, five or ten days later, she is apparently completely fine. Like nothing that happened during the Fourth Holy Grail War mattered at all to the people that were part of it, besides giving Shirou fantasy-PTSD, for lack of a better phrase.

Spoiler

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I think it's a matter of personal resilience. She's completely closed off at the start of F/SN due to the horrible emotional losses she'd dealt with immediately before - considering she's being summoned directly off of Camlann Hill, she was just about the same way at the start of Zero, she just had more time to adjust. If she was going to be irreconcilably emotionally broken by loss and betrayal, it would have probably happened already. As it is, the first half of this War is practically a vacation for her, which combined with Shirou's unstoppable insistence on treating her as a person and the genuinely nice people she's hanging out with lets her drop the stoic drywall she normally uses to ignore her problems and lets her ignore her problems like a normal human instead.

[DoctorFaust]

Spoiler

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I think it's a matter of personal resilience. She's completely closed off at the start of F/SN due to the horrible emotional losses she'd dealt with immediately before - considering she's being summoned directly off of Camlann Hill, she was just about the same way at the start of Zero, she just had more time to adjust. If she was going to be irreconcilably emotionally broken by loss and betrayal, it would have probably happened already. As it is, the first half of this War is practically a vacation for her, which combined with Shirou's unstoppable insistence on treating her as a person and the genuinely nice people she's hanging out with lets her drop the stoic drywall she normally uses to ignore her problems and lets her ignore her problems like a normal human instead.

Spoiler: Spoilers

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I guess I don't think it seems realistic, how suddenly a lifetime of walls are knocked down, or at least I feel like the arc makes her seem more like a character, and less like a person. Because it pretty much immediately goes from Excaliblast to Camlann to the Fifth War to her being completely fine again, and acting like a pretty normal, if formal and badass, teenager. Hell, the episode after she's introduced, she's acting basically the same as she did in the first half of this episode. Even Hisao Nakai, Master of Romance!, needed a couple of months to knock down as many walls.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Spoiler: Spoilers

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I guess I don't like how suddenly a lifetime of walls are knocked down, or at least I feel like it makes her seem more like a character, and less like a person. Because it pretty much immediately goes from Excaliblast to Camlann to the Fifth War to her being completely fine again. Hell, the episode after she's introduced, she's acting basically the same as she did in the first half of this episode. Even Hisao Nakai, Master of Romance!, needed a couple of months to knock down as many walls.

Spoiler

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I think it's more a matter of changing from external to internal walls. She doesn't stonewall Shirou because, despite his relationship to Kiritsugu, he's still her Master and still a very kind person. So she changes from an external emotional wall to compartmentalizing her trauma within her, which is the same way she was able to have friendly duels and drinking parties during the Fourth War, and able to accede Kiritsugu's point and continue working with him after he betrayed every principle she had while dispatching Team Lancer and brought out her hot-blooded chivalrous side to object to it. Likewise, Saber compartmentalizes all her past trauma so she can do what she needs to do in this War, except now Shirou and Rin have distracted her with the Modern Teen Experience, and also food.

I'm going fairly deep into character analysis speculation here, though, so I do see your point on a surface level and I acknowledge I'm actively trying to justify stuff.

[Pronounceable]

Fate/Zero

The answer is she's that badass and just got over it as Nerdorama says. The real answer is that FZ was written later and FSN doesn't continue from its ending.
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In other news that anyone may or may not care, Fate/Apoc is over. Apparently it has the dumbest ending ever, which just amuses me to no end. Every random bit I read that might be true or false increases my amusement. From what I gather from the incoherent ramblings at Nasuverse fanforum,

Spoiler: F/Apoc ending

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it seems Sieg turned into a dragon and flew off with the Grail to the phantasmal creatures' land. And he'd also actually been Frankenstein since her apparent death, or something (I don't even?). I think everyone except the sibling masters, the fat dude and Astolfo are dead. The fat dude's survival is the biggest shock in this incomprehensible mess of half rumors, not even the dragon.

But what I mostly got was a mix of nerdrage and baffled amusement. Which is the same as my reaction, unless it's some sort of epic trolley going on over there. The chances of this being real and somehow making sense in the context is none to negative.

[-D-]

Spoiler: Saber

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Maybe that's why she is such a glutton. Eat to forget the shame .

[DoctorFaust]

The answer is she's that badass and just got over it as Nerdorama says. The real answer is that FZ was written later and FSN doesn't continue from its ending.

The first is like saying that the girls in YuYuYu got better because of willpower and expecting me to accept it. Just saying she's badass doesn't explain anything about how her personality changed this dramatically in the few minutes between the Fifth and Fourth Wars. I mean, I don't entirely agree with Nerdorama's explanation, but at least it makes more sense than that.

And I understand the second. Just like I understand that Rin is the heroine of this route, so Saber is, out of necessity, going to get less screen time. But that doesn't mean that I have to like how little time her character arc took. Which was about ten minutes.

[Eldariel]

Spoiler: Saber

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It's not easy to say how time works for her. In essence she's frozen on Camlann Hill being summoned time after time to conflicts in search for her wish (i.e. turning back time and selecting another king). However, being frozen in the moment that moment must be as long as eternity, much like the Throne of Heroes exists outside time. So, I think it's fully plausible that she's essentially had an eternity to deal with the stuff from Fate/Zero. Or forgotten parts of her past already. Either way, I doubt it feels like immediately to her in this timeline, even though it's clear she has memories of her past time with Kiritsugu; but it's like she's reset. Time travel is funky business.