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Thread: A reasonable encounter?
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2014-12-03, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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A reasonable encounter?
I plan to send a Juvenile(CR 7) black chromatic dragon at my party as a final fight before our christmas break. The party is composed of
1 level 3 Psion
1 level 3 Wizard(Moderately high-op, knows handbooks and "good spells" ,is a conjuration specialist with Abrupt Jaunt)
1 level 3 Cleric
1 level 3 Bard
1 level 3 Warlock
2 level 3 Rogues
1 level 3 Ranger
and another Cleric who may or may not show up, and likely won't add a meaning contribution to the combat.
Spellcasters have access to Core +Spell Compendium for spells. The party has preparation time, enough to go to a town and gather supplies before going into conflict with this "mysterious enemy"
The party has received a riddle which gives a hint as to the nature of the enemy, and they have solved it enough to believe that Acid is involved.
I am looking for a threatening challenge, something to at the least truly threaten the party, but not seem too unfair. Given the prep time, is this reasonable for them?
What can I do to make it fair and challenging?
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2014-12-03, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
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- Cambridge, MA
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Re: A reasonable encounter?
Are you running the dragon straight of the book as written? if so, you might drop a pc or two but that huge party should taken it down eventually.
Last edited by (Un)Inspired; 2014-12-03 at 03:07 PM.
amazing avatar of my favorite character, Gheera, by Pesimismrocks
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2014-12-03, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: A reasonable encounter?
Well, first, let's go to the calculator - it's not always accurate, but it's worth a glance. According to the calculator, 8 level 3 PCs (we're excluding the one who may or may not show up) versus a CR 7 encounter is going to be "Very Difficult." Now let's get down to specifics of the encounter.
Look at the stats on a Black Dragon. At Juvenile (CR 7), it's a medium creature with 13 HD, +16 to attack, and +10/+8/+8 saves. It has five natural weapons (two claws, one bite, two wings), a 60 foot line of acid breath weapon, 3/day Darkness, and flight. It also has 22 AC, even flat-footed, and 10 touch AC.
Now let's look at your party.
First off, your melees consist of Rogues. They will probably be useless, since this guy has a flat-footed AC of 22, and his melee attacks would likely shred them like paper. Your Ranger may be useful if the dragon takes flight, but again, high AC. Your Warlock is in a great place, since his attacks can target touch AC. Likewise, your Wizard, Psion, and possibly Cleric will have a better time of it. Your Bard would do well to act as a force multiplier.
Short version? Like Uninspired said, they should be able to manage.My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2014-12-04, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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Re: A reasonable encounter?
If they were to receive some of the 'loot' beforehand, especially in the case of the rogues, what items would benefit them in this encounter? (Let's keep the price under 5k, I'm fine with fiddling with WBL, but not too much)
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2014-12-04, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: A reasonable encounter?
It really depends on the build. For example, a +1 longsword doesn't do much for an archery-focused Ranger.
Now, for the Rogues, things that might help could include:- Ways to attack touch AC. Sadly, Brilliant Energy weapons, to my recollection, are still subject to natural armor, and that's what makes Dragons so tough to hit. But perhaps an item that lets them use the Emerald Razor maneuver (turns one melee attack into a touch attack) would help.
- Concealment/ miss chance. A Rogue in melee with a Dragon is Swiss cheese. Having a miss chance is a huge boon, and gives them at least a glimmer of survival. Perhaps a Smoking weapon could help with that.
- Ranged combat. Remember, Sneak Attack can apply to ranged attacks within 30 feet. And being able to plink away lets them do damage even if the Dragon takes flight.
- Scrolls. Rogues have UMD as a class skill. How much does a wand of Shivering Touch (aka Dragonslaying for Dummies) go for?
My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2014-12-04, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: A reasonable encounter?
The problem is that ranged sneak attack only works when the target loses its DEX bonus to AC. You cannot flank with tanged attacks, so the rogues will be plinking away much longer than it takes the dragon to hit them with a couple of breath weapons.
Juvenile is the largest black dragon where this still is a good idea. All larger ones get spell resistance. Then chances are you do nothing to the dragon and will be in range for a full attack from it.
Wraithstrike scrolls could be interesting as they do not affect the dragon but the rogue.
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2014-12-04, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: A reasonable encounter?
Flanking isn't the only way to deprive an enemy of Dex-to-AC. If the enemy is Blinded, or you are Invisible, the enemy loses his Dex bonus to AC. Similarly, a Stunned enemy loses that bonus.
Juvenile is the largest black dragon where this still is a good idea. All larger ones get spell resistance. Then chances are you do nothing to the dragon and will be in range for a full attack from it.My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2014-12-04, 11:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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Re: A reasonable encounter?
One rogue is dual-wielding focused, and the other is...ranged? He currently uses a heavy crossbow as his main weapon but has feats for melee combat(I guess the party didn't do the best job helping him with his character) so I probably want to get them both some miss chance or defensive item.
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2014-12-04, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
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2014-12-04, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
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- Cambridge, MA
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2014-12-04, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2014
Re: A reasonable encounter?
Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2014-12-04 at 12:54 PM.
Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
Spoiler: Current Characters
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2014-12-04, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
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- Cambridge, MA
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2014-12-04, 01:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: A reasonable encounter?
While this was a funny interlude, it's not what I meant. Single class rogues do not get the ability to turn invisible except through hiding, which is impossible to do while being observed.
Last edited by Andezzar; 2014-12-04 at 01:10 PM.
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2014-12-04, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: A reasonable encounter?
My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2014-12-04, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
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- Cambridge, MA
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Re: A reasonable encounter?
Oh I see whatcha mean. They can understand wands on scrolls of invisibility though.
That 30ft limit on SA compounds the issue as well. That dragon it probably not gonna fly that low.
I think your party's best bet is:
1. Have the bard IC the whole group, hopeful with SotH and inspire boost.
2. Everyone goes crazy with ranged attack on the dragon.
Hopefully, with the IC they can take it down relatively quickly.
You're warlock should use eldritch blast, you wizard one of the lesser orbs and your psion... Maybe energy ray?
Everyone else can use a bow or a crossbow.
If the dragon drops into melee then the party should rush him and try and drop him with a fusillade of sword swings.amazing avatar of my favorite character, Gheera, by Pesimismrocks
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2014-12-04, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: A reasonable encounter?
Actually, a third-level Psion can do pretty well with Crystalstorm. Ranged touch attack deals 2d4 slashing damage, +1d4 Con damage on a failed Fort save. It's a pretty decent no-save power with SR/PR: No. Ranged touch attack, so hitting a Dragon is easy, and the save only covers the Con damage.
My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2014-12-04, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- Cambridge, MA
- Gender
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2014-12-04, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: A reasonable encounter?
My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2014-12-04, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2005
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Re: A reasonable encounter?
Tanglefoot bags, potions of invisibility and resistance, potions of extended wrath strike and true strike. Dragon bane ammo is 167gp each, buy two or three. Consider a dragon bane and mage bane arrow or bolt for 367gp.
Hmm. Invisibility, true strike, +1 dragon & mage bane bolt, 3rd level rogue, heavy crossbow. More than +20 to hit and 1d10+6d6 damage. It costs money, about a grand, but for a dragon it can be worth it.