LGBTAI+ Questions and Discussion thread II: Make It Double

[Mono Vertigo]

Hello!
Welcome to the LGBT+ information thread. This thread is meant to answer all sorts of questions one may have about the community, and have a casual atmosphere.
As such, this is an education thread, not a support thread (which you can conveniently find there instead). Why the split? Because the main thread is mostly populated by LGBT people who are seeking, well, support, and some questions or misunderstandings can be causes of additional stress. You can ask these questions here instead, and receive answers from LGBT people or allies. They can be as general or as precise as you want.

A couple things you need to know before browsing the rest of this thread:
- if you are LGBT+ but do not wish to educate people, or are likely to be offended by the lack of knowledge of some people, you're probably better off not reading this thread.
- if you have questions, go ahead! But try to stay polite and open-minded. If your question has an element of support (like “I think I might be transgender, how do I know for sure?” or “my LGBT friend has problems with their parents, how could I help?”), the support thread may also help, so try there as well.
- avoid misinformation. If you don't know the answer, don't intentionally pull stuff out of your backside. If you do so repeatedly, I will hunt you down, and GM your next game, which will include Drizz't and a Kender as GMPCs. (Theoretically unenforceable? You can never be 100% sure. Don't tempt your luck.)
- mind the forum rules and avoid the subjects of politics or religion (or sexually-explicit content for that matter). Otherwise, there is no subject that is preemptively banned, and we'd like it to stay this way; therefore, if a discussion upsets or angers you, report the offending posts (if a forum rule has actually been infringed) and/or step away from the computer until you calm down, instead of starting a flame war. This is the Internet. We're physically stuck behind your screen. The worst we can do is send stupid PMs until the inbox is full – and you don't even have to acknowledge their content before deleting them! We can't follow you and force you to keep arguing.
- no one here should be shunned here for unfortunately lacking some knowledge but desiring to learn. Nothing is self-evident, and that's even more true where gender and sexuality are concerned. (Now, if you request to be educated but act deliberately obtuse when replied to, you're gonna have a bad time. Don't be deliberately obtuse. Nobody likes morons.)

Spoiler: Glossary (thanks Zorg!), read first before asking a vocabulary question

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And, for reference, here is a list of commonly used words and definitions by our community. Please understand that this list is currently undergoing construction right now. Any contributions to the list are appreciated.
LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*

LGBTAI: LGBT+Asexual/Allies+Intersex+All Inclusive

QUILTBAG:
Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender, Transexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual, Agender, Aromantic
G - Gay, Genderqueer

Where a word below is in italics, that means it has it's own entry on the list.

A note on labels: many of these labels are seemingly interchangeable, and for some people they are. However, please do not presume to correct or judge another person's use of a label. Bisexual and Pansexual are especially tricky in this regard, as are transgender and transsexual to a lesser degree.
Often the difference in why one person feels one label is appropriate and not another is deeply personal. If you wish to know more it is probably a topic to seek private advice on, from one of the people listed in the next section.


AFAB/AMAB: Assigned Female/Male at Birth

Agender(ed): Someone who lacks a gender.

Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.

Androsexual: A person who is attracted to men.

Aromantic: A person who does not feel any romantic feeling toward anyone, independently of sexual attraction.

Asexual: A person who does not feel any/some sexual attraction, independently of any romantic feeling.

Binary, The: See: Gender Binary.

Bisexual: 1. attracted to two genders; 2. attracted to one's own gender and another gender; 3. attracted to various genders; 4. attracted to people regardless of gender; 5. ask the person who says they're bi what exactly they mean by that. See also Pansexual

Cis: See: Cisgender

Cisgender (CG): Somebody whose gender and sex align.

Demisexual: A person who is sexually attracted to someone(s) only after they have formed an intense emotional relationship with.

Dysphoria: The disassociation Trans* people feel with their own body.

Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

Female: See: Woman

Female-to-Male (FtM): Someone who was assigned female at birth, but is male. (AKA: trans man)

FAAB: Female Assigned at Birth.

Feminine: Something generally associated by society with women.

FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. Associated primarily with MAAB Trans people

FtM: See: Female to Male

Gay: A man who is attracted to men.

Gender Binary: The commonly held notion that there are only men and women on two extremes, with nothing in between.

Gender Expression (GE): How one expresses their Gender Identity to society.

Gender Identity (GI): How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other".

Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between different genders.

Genderqueer (GQ): Someone who is not of a binary gender; someone who is not male or female.

Gynosexual: A person who is attracted to women.

Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.

Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their gender.

HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's tend to progestrogens, oestrogens and androgen blockers, while FtM's take testosterone almost exculsively.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.

MAAB: Male Assigned at Birth.

Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

Man/men: A cis man or trans man. Male.

Masculine: Something generally associated by society with men.

Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender. See also Bisexual

Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.

Presenting: Trans* shorthand for appearing as their preferred gender, regardless of any HRT, SRS or other changes.

Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender primarily, with the asterisk denoting that the trans- prefix could be followed by any number of appropriate words. It also includes other labels, and is a catch-all term for people who identify as something other than their biological sex at birth.

Transgender: Used in reference to a person whose sex(body) and gender(mind) are at odds or do not match. A transgender person can also identify as genderqueer, transsexual, or may use transgender as their only identity.

Transitioning: The process a Trans* person undergoes to move to their preferred gender. Often includes HRT, SRS, FFS.

Transsexual: In common terms the same as transgender above. In medical terms refers specifically to people who wish to transition from male to female or female to male, not accommodating any other options.

SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.

Sexual Orientation (SO): How one identifies who they are attracted to.

Significant Other(s) (SO): Person(s) you are in a relationship with.

Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa. Also a person who feels they do not identify with any other gender identity.

Woman: A cis woman or trans woman. Female.

Allies: Hetereosexual-Cisgender people who support equality for sexual, gender, and romantic minorities.

Spoiler: Personal Consulting List: because sometimes, you'd rather ask something by PM.

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-Philemonite, for gay-related subjects.
-Mono Vertigo, for asexuality-related subjects.
- Rain Dragon, for trans-related subjects (particularly trans men/FtM).
-Miriel, for feminism, gender, asexuality, and trans-related subjects (particularly trans women/MtF).
-Golentan for bisexuality, genderfluidity/questioning-related subjects, and issues of childhood abuse.
-Irish Musician for cis/straight point of view on general LGBT+ subjects.
-Jormengand for bisexuality, trans, polyamory, and genderfluidity-related subjects.
-Arachu for trans (particularly trans women/MtF), hormones, bisexuality, pansexuality, and polyamory-related subjects.
-Astrella for trans (particularly trans women/FtM), LGBT+ rights, and lesbianly subjects. (Lesbianly is totally a word, shut up.*)
-Eldest for bisexuality, pansexuality, polyamoury, and kink-related subjects (still keep it PG-13 please).
-Kesnit for trans-related subjects (particularly trans men/FtM).



*this is why savvy people don't usually let me manage a thread.

Last thing: knowledge is power. You might be one of the lucky 10,000 today.



Previous thread.

[golentan]

I have a weird question for people. Without getting graphic, do people's tastes in erotica match up pretty neatly with their tastes in mates?

[Heliomance]

Not especially. Males feature much more heavily in my taste in erotica than my taste in mates. But then, that's largely due to the ability to fantasise myself fully functionally female when indulging in erotica.

[Iruka]

I have a weird question for people. Without getting graphic, do people's tastes in erotica match up pretty neatly with their tastes in mates?

You mean if the people in the erotica are similar to the people I'd consider for a relationship?
I'd say my tastes concerning erotica are broader than for mates. More varied and also with lower standards, I don't have to spend a lot of time with them after all.
Though it makes the erotica more interesting, if the people in it seem like good company.

[Coidzor]

I have a weird question for people. Without getting graphic, do people's tastes in erotica match up pretty neatly with their tastes in mates?

Well, in my smut I prefer for the guys to be more on the attractive side and not look or act like douchebags as that's rather distracting.

In my actual romantic and sexual encounters, though, I prefer for there not to be other guys in the first place. So, y'know.

I've known a few people who were into ****** porn who would never actually date a trans* woman, though the full extent of the whys and wherefores I'd rather not dwell upon.

Other than that, I suppose there was a brief period where I was looking up porn stars who looked like one of my exes after I ran into the idea on reddit. That was a bit surreal.

I don't believe you'll find very many straight men or lesbians who will consume guy-on-guy porn, if that's the sort of thing that you're looking for here, but you'll probably find a fair number of closeted gay men who actively claim to be straight who do.

Well, not *here* obviously and not *find* so much, but, y'know.

Though it makes the erotica more interesting, if the people in it seem like good company.

Well, yeah, that means you're actually reading a decently written erotica or possibly an erotic-romance if they actually have characterization and good dialogue.

[Anarion]

I have a weird question for people. Without getting graphic, do people's tastes in erotica match up pretty neatly with their tastes in mates?

Not in the slightest.

[Heliomance]

I don't believe you'll find very many straight men or lesbians who will consume guy-on-guy porn, if that's the sort of thing that you're looking for here, but you'll probably find a fair number of closeted gay men who actively claim to be straight who do.

Realising I actually kinda liked that was one of the main things that made me admit I'm bi :P

[Siosilvar]

Realising I actually kinda liked that was one of the main things that made me admit I'm bi :P

Same, though I spell realizing with a 'z' because I'm a silly American.

[Icewraith]

Regarding erotica, I used to think that it was a relief valve for when my and my mate's drives misaligned.

However, I've mostly ditched it, and discovered it was actually sucking time and effort better spent on my mate.

[Heliomance]

Regarding erotica, I used to think that it was a relief valve for when my and my mate's drives misaligned.

However, I've mostly ditched it, and discovered it was actually sucking time and effort better spent on my mate.

Mm, my consumption drops to pretty much nil when I'm in a relationship. Doesn't seem right to me to use it.

[golentan]

I don't believe you'll find very many straight men or lesbians who will consume guy-on-guy porn, if that's the sort of thing that you're looking for here, but you'll probably find a fair number of closeted gay men who actively claim to be straight who do.

Well, not *here* obviously and not *find* so much, but, y'know.

Actually one of the things that prompted the question: I know a decent number of lesbians who are into guy-guy stuff for their own recreational use.

[Anarion]

Mm, my consumption drops to pretty much nil when I'm in a relationship. Doesn't seem right to me to use it.

As a strictly theoretical matter, I don't think it's always wrong to use it if you're in a relationship, especially if there's, say, a considerable mismatch between the drives of the two people. I don't think I'd want to myself, though.

[SiuiS]

Not in the slightest.

Yeah, not in action. I may be an aberration in that I wouldn't mind living like that, but a lot of the things in my erotica don't scientifically exist. And unlike fantasies wherein some potentially triggering things can be hit under the collar, in reality they are dangerous and bad to do spontaneously, and any attempts to live out erotica are mitigated by having to worry about if you're doing the right thing.

Mm, my consumption drops to pretty much nil when I'm in a relationship. Doesn't seem right to me to use it.

Huh. My consumption of erotica doesn't really change, but I don't consume it for tittilation most of the time. I suspect I am aberrant in that regard, too.

[Icewraith]

Mm, my consumption drops to pretty much nil when I'm in a relationship. Doesn't seem right to me to use it.

Looking back at the past, there were a couple of places where it was probably a positive thing because of really rough stuff she was going through. Turning me down would have made her feel worse when she had enough going on and trying to tough it out never ends well for anyone. Once things return to normal it's probably unnecessary and a distraction.

I'm a bit surprised about the lesbians guy-guy thing.

[Astrella]

It's partially at least due to the fact that a lot of straight porn is misogynistic, and a lot of lesbian porn is very fetishistic and not aimed at actual lesbians and other women-into-women.

[SowZ]

I have a weird question for people. Without getting graphic, do people's tastes in erotica match up pretty neatly with their tastes in mates?

I prefer my erotica/porn without actual sex or nudity, (keep your underwear on, please,) and sometimes with a few of my kinks. This is how I prefer my sex life as well, at least when I choose to have one. The main difference is I actively seek out this material, whereas physical intimacy/fooling is something I will do and enjoy if it is there and easily available and I'm in a serious relationship, but won't actively pursue or miss when it is gone.

[SiuiS]

A difference (I don't know if this is the intended one) is how much the concept means to one's sense of self. So, for example, I don't personally put much value in gender labels. I am a man, if you happen to ask, or if I need to provide a description of what I look like to somebody. But it wouldn't really bother me if I were a woman and actually I tend to get mistaken for a woman on phone calls sometimes because my voice is kind of high and I almost never correct people.

On the other hand, I'm also a gamer and I identify as a gamer. If people in a conversation start talking about how games are only for kids, or start off on how games encourage violence, I find it agitating and bothersome. It compels me to speak out against it because it's a threat (albeit a minor one) to my own sense of self. Similarly, I might get very upset or defensive if somebody told me that I was a mean person or that I took advantage of my friends and family for my own self-aggrandizement. Because I don't think of myself as a selfish or mean person (and those two are easy examples because almost nobody thinks of themselves as selfish and mean).

So, the distinction I see is that there are things you would use to describe yourself, but you don't much care if people get them wrong or criticize you for them. And there are things you identify as, where they form a part of your overall self-image and mistakes or criticism with regards to those things makes you upset and defensive.

That makes sense but it is too much a "that's what I said". I don't understand it as different from my initial response so I'm missing some of the nuances.

Still, it's an interesting thing. Does self attribution change based on context or only time? Would one be considered strange if they were only a gamer when they decided to be, as opposed to always? Does that make sense? I am trying to feel out the boundaries, where one person can take off and put on these hats, without violating the category. Because at a certai point, if you remove a category whenever it would come up, you don't belong in that category.

[Ifni]

On the question of identity/attribution... hmm. There was a point at which I didn't really identify particularly as a girl/woman. I remember reading in a book about a character making a list of identities that were important to them, and "male" was something like numbers one, four and eight... and I was struck by that, because at the time, I wasn't sure that "female" would even make the top ten for me. (I was probably twelve or thirteen.)

Now... "physicist" is higher, but "female physicist" would probably make the top ten - it is something that connects me to girls who are interested in science and being pushed away from it due to their gender, something that informs and reflects a lifetime of experiences that have been noticeably affected by being (seen as) a woman, and so it does matter to me.

In terms of whether it bothers me to have that challenged or misrepresented? Hmm. I was going to say that it doesn't really bother me at all to have a stranger on the street ID me as a man (and it's happened) - and that's true, but it does bug me when someone assumes in a professional context that I am male (my first name is somewhat ambiguous), because it falls into a pattern of assuming All Physicists Are Male. And seeing female scientists represented as ditzy (or non-existent) in the media makes my blood boil, more so than more general misrepresentation or underrepresentation of women (although the latter do also bother me). Maybe that's a revealing distinction, maybe my gendered identification is more as "female scientist" than "woman".

Thinking about orientation - for me, labeling this as identity rather than preference implies a degree of stability, as well as signifying the depth of association. "I'm asexual and aromantic" tends to be read (correctly in my case) as "and thus not interested in dating now or ever, unless something unexpected changes", whereas "I'm not interested in sex/romance" without that label seems to almost universally get read as "I'm not interested right now". (See prevalence of: "Oh, just wait until you meet the right person!" narratives.)

As implied by this, I feel like there can be a practical aspect to (open) identification in that other people may recognize "I identify as this" as a more serious and valid statement than "I prefer this". I've had friends who listened to me saying "I'm asexual and not interested in anyone" for years but persistently behaved as if I was expressing a temporary preference - then they found out that Other People Are Asexual Too! and suddenly switched straight over to "oh, it's your orientation, okay then". Other people's acceptance of categories as legitimate-for-identification seems to matter.

[Kesnit]

I have a weird question for people. Without getting graphic, do people's tastes in erotica match up pretty neatly with their tastes in mates?

I don't believe you'll find very many straight men or lesbians who will consume guy-on-guy porn, if that's the sort of thing that you're looking for here, but you'll probably find a fair number of closeted gay men who actively claim to be straight who do.

In the 10 years between coming out as a lesbian and coming out as trans, I discovered I HATE lesbian porn. Astrella summed up why. I've heard there is lesbian porn made by women for women, which would probably be OK. But all I've ever seen is unrealistic* trash. Male-female porn can be good, but I often get the impression that the woman is thinking more about what she needs to buy at the grocery store than the fact she's having sex. Strangely, I've always liked male-on-male porn, probably because the men in those videos at least look like they are having fun.



* There is the obvious argument that no porn is realistic, and that is true. When I say "unrealistic," I mean "so far outside the realm of reality that even porn needs a telescope to see it."

[Heliomance]

In the 10 years between coming out as a lesbian and coming out as trans, I discovered I HATE lesbian porn. Astrella summed up why. I've heard there is lesbian porn made by women for women, which would probably be OK. But all I've ever seen is unrealistic* trash. Male-female porn can be good, but I often get the impression that the woman is thinking more about what she needs to buy at the grocery store than the fact she's having sex. Strangely, I've always liked male-on-male porn, probably because the men in those videos at least look like they are having fun.



* There is the obvious argument that no porn is realistic, and that is true. When I say "unrealistic," I mean "so far outside the realm of reality that even porn needs a telescope to see it."

I've come across a few decent lesbian videos. They are hard to find though. My normal issue with them is that they all tend to be really slow and sensual and gentle, which is all well and good if you're in the mood for that sort of thing, but I find kinda boring. I want a little passion, y'know?

Of course, decent trans* erotica is even harder to find >_>

[golentan]

I've come across a few decent lesbian videos. They are hard to find though. My normal issue with them is that they all tend to be really slow and sensual and gentle, which is all well and good if you're in the mood for that sort of thing, but I find kinda boring. I want a little passion, y'know?

Of course, decent trans* erotica is even harder to find >_>

Slow and sensual and gentle is my jam.

That said, I don't like most lesbian porn and I'm supposedly in its target audience.

[-Sentinel-]

I have a strangely specific question. When someone undergoes a sex change (be it surgical/hormonal, legal, social, etc.), do we treat it as retroactive when referring to that person before the sex change?

For example, The Matrix was made in 1999 by the duo then known as the Wachowski brothers, Andy and Larry. Shortly afterwards, the latter underwent a sex change and became Lana Wachowski. Do we say that The Matrix was made by Wachowski brothers Andy and Larry (since Lana was still officially Larry at the time), or that it was made by Wachowski siblings Andy and Lana (since Lana presumably identified as female for most/all of her life)?

[golentan]

I have a strangely specific question. When someone undergoes a sex change (be it surgical/hormonal, legal, social, etc.), do we treat it as retroactive when referring to that person before the sex change?

For example, The Matrix was made in 1999 by the duo then known as the Wachowski brothers, Andy and Larry. Shortly afterwards, the latter underwent a sex change and became Lana Wachowski. Do we say that The Matrix was made by Wachowski brothers Andy and Larry (since Lana was still officially Larry at the time), or that it was made by Wachowski siblings Andy and Lana (since Lana presumably identified as female for most/all of her life)?

I would tend towards the latter. It seems more supportive to me, but I will bow to the opinions of those with more expertise than I.

[SowZ]

I would tend towards the latter. It seems more supportive to me, but I will bow to the opinions of those with more expertise than I.

I would default the same way unless explicitly told otherwise. Sometimes I will refer to an artist by their stage name or name before a name change, especially if their new identity disassociates with their old work, like Cat Stevens, but in general it is probably best to be retroactive. Maybe not, though, I'm no expert.

[SiuiS]

I have a strangely specific question. When someone undergoes a sex change (be it surgical/hormonal, legal, social, etc.), do we treat it as retroactive when referring to that person before the sex change?

For example, The Matrix was made in 1999 by the duo then known as the Wachowski brothers, Andy and Larry. Shortly afterwards, the latter underwent a sex change and became Lana Wachowski. Do we say that The Matrix was made by Wachowski brothers Andy and Larry (since Lana was still officially Larry at the time), or that it was made by Wachowski siblings Andy and Lana (since Lana presumably identified as female for most/all of her life)?

Same default but it's subjective. The only people who can answer that question are the ones you will be talking about.

[Lanaya]

I have a strangely specific question. When someone undergoes a sex change (be it surgical/hormonal, legal, social, etc.), do we treat it as retroactive when referring to that person before the sex change?

I certainly would unless they'd expressed some interest in still being referred to as their birth sex. When someone's gone to that much trouble not to be referred to as a dude it's reasonable to assume they don't want to be referred to as a dude, even if it is happening in the past tense.

[Serpentine]

I think it's probably generally safest to default to applying it retroactively, possibly with an addition like "Lana, then known as Larry" if it's really necessary (e.g. Because she's in the credits as Larry).
I think there may be exceptions, though. For example, I had a friend in high school who turned out to be a trans woman. I have big issues with the person I went to high school with - he was kind of a massive ******** - but none with the person I know now - she's become a pretty good person. So for the sake of our friendship, I find it useful to distinguish between the boy he was then and the woman she is now. It's not something I'd recommend for most people, though.

[Chambers]

I was invited today to be a presenter as an Ally at a local upcoming LGBT+ conference. I didn't get a lot of details, but it was it explained that I'd be leading a sort of Allies 101 workshop. I tentatively agreed and plan on getting more information from my friend about what's expected, but I'd appreciate some help here.

What kinds of resources are you all familiar with that I should know about for such a workshop? Do you have any suggestions for some topics that would be good to bring up?

I'm not active in the local LGBT+ community so I'm not really current on terminology and issues. What are some faux pas that I should avoid? What kinds of information do you think would be useful for new Allies to be aware of?

[Coidzor]

I have a strangely specific question. When someone undergoes a sex change (be it surgical/hormonal, legal, social, etc.), do we treat it as retroactive when referring to that person before the sex change?

Yes, unless you have to refer to their previous legal name for some reason, like denoting that someone was born as Xvine McYington and then later changed their name to Zetalia.

For example, The Matrix was made in 1999 by the duo then known as the Wachowski brothers, Andy and Larry. Shortly afterwards, the latter underwent a sex change and became Lana Wachowski. Do we say that The Matrix was made by Wachowski brothers Andy and Larry (since Lana was still officially Larry at the time), or that it was made by Wachowski siblings Andy and Lana (since Lana presumably identified as female for most/all of her life)?

You would only say the "Wachowski Brothers" if it was some legal entity above and beyond simply denoting that the two siblings worked together, like it was the name of their company or other wossname, and then only if rather than renaming it to whatever we're supposed to call them now (did they ever go with anything new or are we just supposed to actually remember their first names when they haven't done anything worth remembering since the turn of the century?) they allowed "the Wachowski Brothers" to become defunct/die/whathaveyou, so that whatever they're doing now is legally distinct from their work on the Matrix. So you just go with whatever they're known as now.

[Astrella]

I have a strangely specific question. When someone undergoes a sex change (be it surgical/hormonal, legal, social, etc.), do we treat it as retroactive when referring to that person before the sex change?

For example, The Matrix was made in 1999 by the duo then known as the Wachowski brothers, Andy and Larry. Shortly afterwards, the latter underwent a sex change and became Lana Wachowski. Do we say that The Matrix was made by Wachowski brothers Andy and Larry (since Lana was still officially Larry at the time), or that it was made by Wachowski siblings Andy and Lana (since Lana presumably identified as female for most/all of her life)?

Generally, always refer to people the way they identify now. If you need to like, clarify something, you could always say something like "I met X before she transitioned", or something like that.

(Also I think they prefer the Wachowski Spaceship now. :P )