Dresden Files III: You Want Gun Hand or Sandwich Hand?

[thorgrim29]

Probably not, the crucifixion nail stayed in the handle, so it's the handle that's magical. It would probably be a somewhat holy sword if somebody did it because the blade spent several centuries as a holy blade, but I don't think it's going to be enough to make someone a Knight of the Sword.

[Seerow]

We've also seen Mab fix Harry's back and take a bullet wound out of Mac rather casually. And come to think of it I think Aurora did some healing on Elan back in Summer Knight with out a lot of difficulty, which suggests the lady's have the power to do similar feats as well.

Even earlier than that Lea heals Harry of a head injury/concussion during Grave Peril, doing it subtly enough he doesn't even know it happened until hours later while getting checked out at a hospital.

[Rater202]

We've also seen Mab fix Harry's back and take a bullet wound out of Mac rather casually.

Mab ripped a bullet out of Mac rather casually. The wound healed itself.

The implication is that Mac has some kind of regenerative ability due to not actually being human.

[Rakaydos]

Also, a though crossed my mind last night. Butters is using the sword of faith ala handle with light-saber blade, which is cool and all, but, it technically means the blade is still about. and if the idea is that the swords run on belief and righteousness rather then power of a physical vessel, I wonder if it might be possible for someone to forge a new 4th sword of the cross form the remaining blade of the sword of faith?

Nope. The blade is just earthly metal. The important part of the Swords is the Nail of the Cross (of which there were three, one for each Blade) forged into each hilt.

[Metahuman1]

I vaguely recall something in skin games about the metal of the nails being worked into the blades.

That said, I also recall something about the belief being a hugh factor. Maybe after 2,000 years that blade soaked up enough to be on equal footing with the other swords if it was reworked? It's less likely, but it's possible.



As for healing, we've seen Mac not heal particularly fast form injuries before hand in Side Jobs, and I don't recall him healing faster then normal human from anything in Cold Days before Mab worked on him, so, kinda doubt he heals better then normal human even if he's not normal human. Or at least no better then normal Wizard at absolute best. So, yeah, still betting that was more Mab then Mac. And even if it wasn't, that still requires me to discount other feats Fey in and above the Winter Lady's weight class were doing, so, I'm willing to bet that again, with instruction, she could do it.

[Legato Endless]

Mab definitely has world class healing, but the implication with Mac in Cold Days is that he healed rapidly because he was unconscious, and therefor unable to control the process from prying eyes.

[Metahuman1]

Pretty sure he was unconcess when Harry found him in the story were his bar got torn up in Side Jobs.

But even so, bit of instruction and coaching her past the awkward explaining of things to her parents, I'm seeing her doing some patching up on them. And likely on Murphy since she already knows. Heck, she can even justify not charging for it.

"She's with my Knight, and she watches his back on a regular basis in combat. Since I want my knight to not die, making sure his companions are in good health physically is prudent." in Karen's case, and "There my parents." in her parents. Maybe with a "Besides, the practice in and of itself is good for me." thrown in.

[Legato Endless]

Pretty sure he was unconcess when Harry found him in the story were his bar got torn up in Side Jobs.

Mac was not unconscious in Last Call. Everyone else was, but he greeted Harry wounded but wide awake.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, fair enough then. But the rest of the point stands.

[Chen]

Murphy directly asks why he didn't regenerate in the bar and it is Dresden that suggest the consciousness bit. The fact he doesn't even mention it could be Mab does seem to imply it is some secret Mac is holding that allowed him to heal.

[Delusion]

I wonder if Erlking has a purpose similar to Mab and Titania. I mean it is stated that power has a purpose and that Elking is Mab's peer (even though I doubt he is as strong as she is) so it would make sense.

[Seerow]

So something else I noticed while doing my reread:

Spoiler: Tangential Spoiler to Skin Games

Show

Butters is first introduced in the very chapter before we first meet Sanya, Shiro, and our first Denarian. I know that Butters was intended to be a one and done character who evolved as Butcher wrote, so this is completely unintentional.... but man that is some awesome unintentional foreshadowing. The Knights really do bend coincidence and reality to make things work

[Metahuman1]

I wonder if Erlking has a purpose similar to Mab and Titania. I mean it is stated that power has a purpose and that Elking is Mab's peer (even though I doubt he is as strong as she is) so it would make sense.

Dresden thinks at the individual level and all other things equal, there a dead match for one another. And in changes he decides it would go badly for Mab, and by consequence, him, if he accidentally spoke her name the third time and summoned her to Erlking's base of power.

That said, Winters job is to hold back the outsiders, Summer to hold winter back from the material plane/getting mad with unchecked power, maybe the Erlking and Wild Hunt are there to take care of outsiders that get past winter as a contingency?

[Delusion]

Dresden thinks at the individual level and all other things equal, there a dead match for one another. And in changes he decides it would go badly for Mab, and by consequence, him, if he accidentally spoke her name the third time and summoned her to Erlking's base of power.

I don't really think they have equal power, even individually. Harry was able to trap Erlking in a circle while a titania just blew his circle apart pretty easily.

That said, Winters job is to hold back the outsiders, Summer to hold winter back from the material plane/getting mad with unchecked power, maybe the Erlking and Wild Hunt are there to take care of outsiders that get past winter as a contingency?

That was my first thought and it sort of makes sense but then why he need all that trickery to give Harry the command of the Wild Hunt instead of just leading the Wild Hunt to hunt the outsiders himself?

[Legato Endless]

I don't really think they have equal power, even individually. Harry was able to trap Erlking in a circle while a titania just blew his circle apart pretty easily.

Titania didn't actually break Harry's spell though like the Erlking attempted to, she simply smashed the physical marking itself. I took it more as sidestepping her way through the binding because Harry foolishly created the circle out of substance she held dominion over.

[Aidan305]

I don't really think they have equal power, even individually. Harry was able to trap Erlking in a circle while a titania just blew his circle apart pretty easily.

IIRC, Titania was outside the circle while Harry was inside it. The circle was mostly for Harry's protection, and with Dresden Magic, intent matters a lot.

[JCarter426]

I wonder if Erlking has a purpose similar to Mab and Titania. I mean it is stated that power has a purpose and that Elking is Mab's peer (even though I doubt he is as strong as she is) so it would make sense.

Given that both Kings are Wyldfae and their personalities are somewhat opposite of their Court counterparts, I believe their purpose is to be an additional level of checks against the Queens. Wyldfae as a whole are a neutral third party, and of them one is appointed for each Court as a sort of mediator. The Erlking is aligned with Summer and Kringle is aligned with Winter, but neither is beholden to their Queens and can act independently, and therefore I conclude even in opposition to them... which would suggest that's their purpose.

So if Titania were to get too crazy (for example, if she had been infected by the Outsiders, as Aurora was), Mab would no doubt seize the opportunity to swoop in and destroy Summer forever, because that's her nature. But the Dresdenverse doesn't actually want that to happen, because both Courts exist for a reason. So it would be the Erlking's job to act first, rally the troops, overthrow Titania, and then the Summer Lady would step in to replace her. You could also see it as a form of protection; the Erlking represents the nasty parts of Summer, so it could be he's also there to keep the Summer Queen from getting too soft and being knocked off by Winter. That's my guess, anyway.

[Rakaydos]

the Erlking represents the nasty parts of Summer, so it could be he's also there to keep the Summer Queen from getting too soft and being knocked off by Winter. That's my guess, anyway.

So that makes Kringle the nicer parts of Winter? what does that even mean?

[JCarter426]

Peace on Earth and halfway out of the dark and jolliness and stuff.

[Rater202]

So that makes Kringle the nicer parts of Winter? what does that even mean?

When it gets dark and cold, people come closer.

It's also compassion in a dark time.

This song explains it pretty well, I think (except for the part about the Old Guy singing in the middle)

[Halae]

"Strength Through Adversity" is also a pretty big thing with Winter.

[Metahuman1]

That was my first thought and it sort of makes sense but then why he need all that trickery to give Harry the command of the Wild Hunt instead of just leading the Wild Hunt to hunt the outsiders himself?

For the same reasons Mab Can't outright Lie and doesn't tell the White Counsel as a whole about the outsiders laying siege to reality and that she's what holds them back.

He can't, and that's not how it works, the former for making harry fight to take the power, the latter for not just telling Dresden "Hey, wait, outsiders? Nevermind, were hunting outsiders, it's what we do boy, it's our purpose, leave it too us!".



That said, the theory that there a secondary check on Summer and Winter respectively sounds good too, with one minor nitpick.

If Erlking is summer, why does he ideally operate in late fall, after Summers already waned for the year?

[Rater202]

The wild hunt is apparently something both of the Kings do(which makes sense, since in folklore the norse god Odin is sometimes said to lead it, and since Kringle is also Odin...)

The same way Mab doen'st lose all of her power when it's summer.

[Metahuman1]

But Erlking is still in charge of it. If Kringle Ran the show and Erlking was the number 2, or if there was more then 1 hunt a year and they alternated, or just alternated every X number of years, then yeah, that'd fit that theory perfectly. But, as is, it's a bit of an off track point.

[The Glyphstone]

But Erlking is still in charge of it. If Kringle Ran the show and Erlking was the number 2, or if there was more then 1 hunt a year and they alternated, or just alternated every X number of years, then yeah, that'd fit that theory perfectly. But, as is, it's a bit of an off track point.

Are we certain that they don't? We know Earl was in charge in Cold Days and Dead Beat, but the Wild Hunt never comes up outside that, and I'm almost certain at one point it's said (probably in Dead Beat) that the Erlking is only one of the beings who can call up/lead the Hunt.

[JCarter426]

If Erlking is summer, why does he ideally operate in late fall, after Summers already waned for the year?

You'll have to ask Jim Butcher, although he has said the Erlking is Summer.

Maybe control of the Wild Hunt alternates by year, or maybe it depends on who gets summoned that year, or maybe they duke it out each year to decide who's in charge, or maybe it starts under the Erlking's control and shifts to Kringle's later in the night.

[Legato Endless]

Are we certain that they don't? We know Earl was in charge in Cold Days and Dead Beat, but the Wild Hunt never comes up outside that, and I'm almost certain at one point it's said (probably in Dead Beat) that the Erlking is only one of the beings who can call up/lead the Hunt.

No, you're quite righ. Deadbeat states the Hunt can be led by several beings, and it usually but not always appears in the fall or winter. Given their mythological connection to the hunt, their status as Kings of Wildfae, Gwynn ap Nudd and Odin (Kringle) are also capable of summoning and leading it.

[Metahuman1]

Huh, well, ok then. Makes sense.